Botulism in preserved vegetables?

Hi,

I preserved some roasted and skinned green peppers in a vinegar solution in November. Unfortunately I didn't leave enough air space in the top of the jar and the some of the solution seems to have been squeezed out between the jar and lid since the jar was a little sticky outside. So, I'm worried that the peppers may have spoiled. Reportedly it isn't easy to detect botulism by smell. What are the chances that a dangerous level of bacteria have formed since I preserved the peppers in November?

Cheers,
Dieter

I don't eat any preserve thing that has a fault at all. However you can eat them safely even if there is botulism present if you boil it for a minimum of 10 minutes.
https://emergency.cdc.gov/agent/Botulism/clinicians/control.asp

If I remember correctly, I read that literally all the reported cases of botulism in Sweden in the last 50 years or so (and there were not many at all) came from animal preserves, mostly fish, that were eaten without heating. That's not to say that you can't come down with botulism from a vegetable preserve, but from what I understand it's rather unlikely, given that a lot more people make vegetable preserves (sauerkraut and pickles) than fish ones, even in Sweden. It's likely to be a question of pH. A quick check on Wikipedia gives this:

Growth of the bacterium can be prevented by high acidity, high ratio of dissolved sugar, high levels of oxygen, very low levels of moisture, or storage at temperatures below 3 °C (38 °F) for type A. For example, in a low-acid, canned vegetable such as green beans that are not heated enough to kill the spores (i.e., a pressurized environment) may provide an oxygen-free medium for the spores to grow and produce the toxin. However, pickles are sufficiently acidic to prevent growth; even if the spores are present, they pose no danger to the consumer.

So it would appear that you're probably fine as long as the pH is low enough. But it never hurts to be cautious.

Going with human nature, if you eat it, you won’t enjoy it.   I suspect it is OK, but I would avoid it rather than worry about it.

John F Dean wrote:Going with human nature, if you eat it, you won’t enjoy it.   I suspect it is OK, but I would avoid it rather than worry about it.

I have eaten a lot of fruit preserves where I just scooped off the mold and chunked it.

I have also thrown away some bulging cans of food that when I opened the can the food looked perfectly fine.

The nearest medical facility is a 60-mile trip so I don't want to take any chances.

If the papers do not appear to be molded and the jar lid is not bulging I feel the contents are okay.

As has been mentioned boil them for 10 minutes.

Try eating a very small amount.

My best suggestion would be what you feel is the best way to do it.

What was the recipe for your vinegar solution? I make salsa in late summer with garden veggies and add lime juice to start off acidic, then let it ferment for at least a month. This becomes my hot sauce for the winter and it's very acidic when it's done fermenting. So fermentation can continue after adding acid to veggies.

The pressure inside your can may be due to lactobacillus fermentation which is just fine. Can you check the pH of the solution? If it's below 4.6 then the pressure shouldn't be from botulism because it can't grow below this level of acidity. On the other hand, I've had acidified vegetables get moldy and I'd swear the mold ate up the acid because the solution wasn't as acidic anymore. I send those veggies to the compost.

But, as others have said, if you are in doubt then it's probably best to give it to the compost. I've tossed things that I wasn't sure of and I don't regret it (much). I was, however, more careful next time so that I didn't have to risk throwing food out again due to uncertainty.

Botulism will only grow in the absence of air and with a high enough pH (as mentioned, above 4.6). Even a 50% vinegar solution should easily create that environment. You should always follow the directions of a tested and approved canning recipe when you are going to seal anything into a can where it will be under vacuum.

Are you using the European style "swing-top" jars with the rubber gaskets? The American 2-piece lids are a lot easier to check the seal on, because the flat lid will simply fall off if the seal is bad. There is no way for canning liquid to be expelled from a jar under vacuum. If fermentation has occured, the seal will be broken, and you should probably discard the contents. What I suspect is more likely is that the liquid was boiled out during the canning process. Insufficient headspace will make this much more likely, as the contents inside the jar is expanded when heated. Approved recipes will suggest a headspace measurement along with the processing time. If you didnt wash your jars thoroughly before putting them away, it is quite common for them to mold - even if they looked perfectly clean.

If it was me my flow-chart would go like this:

Was it an approved recipe? No? -> Discard

Yes. Are the seals still good? No? -> Discard

Yes. Contents safe to eat.

Many thanks for your replies. You have been most helpful! ❤😊

I will try to answer your questions:

I seem to have lost the recipe(s) I followed. I was pretty exhausted after roasting and peeling all those peppers and just had a quick look at some Youtube videos for preserving peppers. It could also be that I combined the most appealing features from different recipes. Anyways, there was most certainly a good deal of vinegar and oil together with some sugar and salt. I may also have used some other spices I can't remember.

I used sterilized screw-on jars which I boiled with the peppers inside for about 30 minutes. Then I let the jars cool upside down for a few hours.

The lid did not bulge after 2 months.

The lid was tightly closed.

For opening the jar, I had to use a screwdriver to lift the rim and let the air in with a plop.

The liquid was about 10 mm below the rim, but there was some liquid were the rim touched the lid, which confirmed my suspicion that liquid must have squeezed out during boiling.

We tasted a little. Smell and taste were what you would vinegar and oil to taste and smell.

If we are still alive tomorrow, we'll try a bit more.  😉 But my guess is that the peppers are safe to consume.

Again, many thanks,

Dieter

I hope you will be fine. Judging from the picture of the lid and jar, I would use caution.  Of course, you are there in person; I am not.

John F Dean wrote:I hope you will be fine. Judging from the picture of the lid and jar, I would use caution.  Of course, you are there in person; I am not.

What is wrong with the lid and the jar?

The one aspect of your recipe that concerns me is the oil. Botulism can grow in oil since the oil excludes the acid (water and oil don't mix well) and it proves an anaerobic growing condition. With this new information I would use caution as well. If it was just an acidic solution and no oil, there would be much less risk.

[quote=Robin Katz]The one aspect of your recipe that concerns me is the oil. Botulism can grow in oil since the oil excludes the acid (water and oil don't mix well) and it proves an anaerobic growing condition. With this new information I would use caution as well. If it was just an acidic solution and no oil, there would be much less risk.[/quote]

I don't know anything about the conditions in which botulism can grow; however, there are plenty of recipes for preserving green peppers in oil in airtight jars for 6 or more months.

It is not a style of lid I have used before.

Here was the first relevant bit I found about "Sottolio" pickling:

Sottoli (literally, "under oil") are vegetables packed in olive oil, and require much more care in preparation than do sottaceti because oil is not a preservative; it prevents spoilage merely by isolating the vegetables from the air. This means that the vegetables must be fully cooked (often in vinegar, whose acidity acts as a disinfectant) and transferred immediately to a sterile jar, which must be filled immediately, and tapped briskly so as to dislodge all the air bubbles. Do not pack anything raw in oil, because raw vegetables can harbor bacteria on their surfaces even if they have been well washed, and some of these bacteria can do quite well in the anaerobic (i.e. airless) environment of a sottolio jar. There is a small, but serious, risk for botulism if this process is not done correctly. Therefore, when you open a jar of sottoli, be careful. If the lid is domed up, and there's a whisper of air escaping the jar, discard it, because it might not be safe.

https://www.thespruceeats.com/italian-style-pickled-oil-packed-vegetables-4097606

I have seen those one-piece metal lids used in Italy. They work the same way as American 2-piece lids - there is a button that pops down when it is under vacuum. Not sure where you came up with the idea of turning them upside down, but that is probably not a good idea. As soon as they come out of the canner there will still be steam escaping, so that likely forced the brine out the lid and caused the mold. Anytime you boil out the contents of the jars, you increase the likelihood that the jar will not seal. It might also interfere with the proper venting, as the headspace needs to be purged of air. 30 minutes is a lot of boiling time for pickles, though, so you likely purged it plenty.

I doubt this jar will kill you, but I also have heard that botulism is baaaaaad news. I would suggest sticking to reputable recipes from known sources. There are lots of county extension office recipes available from all over the states. If you really want olive oil on your pickled peppers, it would be safer to add it at the table.

John F Dean wrote:It is not a style of lid I have used before.

The screw-on type jars are commonly used in Europe. We have used them without problems for over 20 years. The type used in the US isn't available here.

This site has some good info about botulism:

https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/botulism

The Center for Disease Control had this guideline: "Heating to an internal temperature of 85°C for at least 5 minutes will decontaminate affected food or drink."  (185F) So if you want cheap insurance and have a food thermometer, that's what I would do. Skandi pretty well covered it with "boil for 10 min".

Botulism is an interesting critter and is certainly one to watch out for. I had heard that packing in oil increased the risk. I tend to pack veggies in acid, and I've been doing so for decades without being "perfect" with either the recipe or the methodology (I try, but perfection isn't my strong suit!) and I've not had anyone get sick. Cleanliness, and having a system that works for your environment is as critical as anything.

My understanding was that if the lid was still sealed when you went to open it and if it was processed properly that the leakage didn't matter.  If it bridged the seal anywhere then the lid didn't stay sealed and there was a risk.  But if the lid maintained vacuum then there was no risk as there was no place the material bridged the seal.  Is this wrong?

C. Letellier wrote:My understanding was that if the lid was still sealed when you went to open it and if it was processed properly that the leakage didn't matter.  If it bridged the seal anywhere then the lid didn't stay sealed and there was a risk.  But if the lid maintained vacuum then there was no risk as there was no place the material bridged the seal.  Is this wrong?

I think this is probably correct.

I made the request in the OP because I suspected that the jars weren't properly sealed because some liquid seems have been squeezed out when I boiled the jars. However, when I opened the first jar, it became clear that there was a vacuum under the lid because it made the characteristic plop noise when I opened it.

I have canned and preserved food decades, my motto when in doubt throw it out.  In 2009 a woman and her children got botulism from canned green beans https://nchfp.uga.edu/publications/Botulism_NCSU_greenbeans.pdf

If lid leaked I would throw out, also due to the oil method.

US: "In February 2009 a Spokane woman and two young children were sickened by food-borne botulism from improperly canned green beans from a home garden.Media reports suggest that the victims were a nurse in her 30s and two children younger than 10. She remains on a ventilator and is recovering slowly. The children suffered milder symptoms. Early signs of food-borne botulism include weakness and vertigo, double vision and progressive difficulty in speaking and swallowing. Difficult economic times and a focus on local foods has lead to increased interest in home food preservation in recent years. Further home preservation-linked botulism may arise due to increased consumption of food not processed ..."

If in doubt, throw it out. Why get sick if you can avoid it? Canned food should not leak, seep, bulge or dry out. It’s not worth the chance of botulism.

Meg Keeney wrote:If in doubt, throw it out. Why get sick if you can avoid it? Canned food should not leak, seep, bulge or dry out. It’s not worth the chance of botulism.

Just what I was going to say!  If I even get the idea that botulism might be present, I boil it or toss it.

I don’t give it to the dog cats or chickens either, now if I could get the deer or mice to eat it….

For this reason, I preserve non-acid vegetables by drying or fermenting, and not by canning. I save the canning for tomatoes and fruit. Well, this reason and also because my climate is so dry that dehydrating things is dead easy.

Dieter Brand wrote:

John F Dean wrote:It is not a style of lid I have used before.

The screw-on type jars are commonly used in Europe. We have used them without problems for over 20 years. The type used in the US isn't available here.

Yes, India too. The type of lid shown above is the only type known here in India, including products imported from Europe. I've canned thousands of jars of jam in Indian-made lids of this type, even ones without a raised button that pops up when the seal is broken. We've had maybe 1 in 200 fail, but we are reusing all our jars and many lids, and the process is done by a crowd of teenagers, new kids every year, so it's not as precise as one might wish (which is why I've only taught them apricot jam and tomato products).