• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education skip experiences global resources cider press projects digital market permies.com pie forums private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Carla Burke
  • John F Dean
  • Nancy Reading
  • r ranson
  • Anne Miller
  • Jay Angler
stewards:
  • Pearl Sutton
  • paul wheaton
  • Leigh Tate
master gardeners:
  • Timothy Norton
  • Christopher Weeks
gardeners:
  • Tina Wolf
  • Matt McSpadden
  • Jeremy VanGelder

Separating fantasy from reality on YouTube

 
Jason Hernandez
Posts: 334
Location: North Coast Dominican Republic
19
forest garden trees tiny house
  • Likes 6
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Lately I have discovered the YouTube channel, "Mother the Mountain Farm." The premise is a good one: permaculture life in the Australian rainforest. But of course, like all media production, these videos are edited for content and narrative, and I can't escape the impression that they have a rather dream-like quality. Lots of images of cuddling with cute animals or playing at the swimming hole, not many images of actual income-generating activity. It looks like such an idyllic life, but, knowing how narrative video works, we of course ask ourselves, what are they NOT showing us?

Of course, if a YouTube channel is popular, then making videos can, itself, be an income-generating activity. These two young women always remember to thank their patrons, and some of their videos contain paid product promotions. Sure enough, in one of their videos, they answer that very question:

You can almost miss it in the elaboration, but yes, they admit that they make a living off their YouTube channel.

Well, it's wonderful that they've found a means of living the dream, and that their feelings about life are expressed in such happy videos. But as a promotion of the permaculture life, it leaves some questions open, don't you think? If living a life like theirs requires a YouTube channel popular enough to earn them a living, then it isn't really scalable to permaculture as a movement. We can't all have YouTube channels; even if we did all have YouTube channels, the inherent competition of the market means that we couldn't all support ourselves off YouTube. Plus, it tends to suggest that permaculture can only be done by subsidizing it with non-permaculture ventures.

On second thought -- a lot of us subsidize our permaculture ventures with non-permaculture activities. Affiliate links from this site being just one example.

I lke the concept behind these videos, which is why I have watched several of them. I think that as far as promoting the permaculture life and values, showing happy things like this is a good way of attracting people's interest. Gotta love that duck! I also think, though, that there needs to be more of an indication of how to make a living at it besides YouTube. What if there were videos about the kinds of products we produce -- the fruits and nuts from our food forests, maybe nutmilks if we have the equipment for that, eggs from those ducks or milk from those goats? How can we balance portrayal of the dream with portrayal of the practicalities of making it happen?
 
Toko Aakster
Posts: 80
Location: Kentucky, USA
93
writing
  • Likes 13
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I see your point, but from a marketing perspective (gotta put my degree to use) - they're not trying to appeal to people who are already in the movement and ready to put in hard work. They're appealing to people who have never heard of permiculture, who need a prospect of 'paradise' to even get them considering stepping off the beaten path, for a moment.

A dreamy, utopia-like homestead run by two individuals who breeze over the hard work and spend all day cuddling animals- that's a very effective first touch to say "Hey, check out this amazing, wonderful thing. Look how lovely it is. Look how happy these people are" - It is a simple and effective first-touch message.
Your first-touch message HAS to be simple, to reach the largest amount of people.

It's why companies have slogans: "Have it your way." "Red Robin: Yum." "Finger-Lickin' good" "Eat Fresh"
They don't even describe what kind of food they sell - only that it's food, and it's good, so come check it out. You can learn about the exact contents & the price to pay /later/.

Many people will never look beyond that dreamy first video they see, because even that sort of 'paradise' that is outside the city/suburbs  is still too much of a step for them.
But with a broad and simple message, more people are likely to pause for a moment and think 'That sounds nice' and actually shift their momentum away from everyday routines and into exploring a new option - into imagining something different.  Just like flowing water, the hardest part of changing someone's mind is to move their momentum away from the rut that they already accepted as 'the way things are and will ALWAYS BE'.

If you can, for a moment, get them to imagine that there is an actual possible life outside their current reality, and get them to /believe/ for a moment, that it's real and possible.... that's literally the hardest part of making any sale.

Getting them to buy into it, seeing the pros and cons and hard work- evaluating their worth ethic and finances - that all comes much later.
That's the realm of 'Proving' it works, which can only happen when people are already engaged enough to stop and ask questions and listen to answers. Other videos can do that - and other youtubers ARE doing that.  

But the mass majority of people living their lives will walk past 'proof' videos without a glance. Hard work and mucking around, no thanks. Benefits don't matter when the 'cons' are stacked up-front.  When you're not already invested in the end product, any extra hard work or extra cost is a turn-off.  

To get them to even consider changing their lifestyle as an option, you first need to get them to pause. To pique curiosity. To build a story and get them hoping it's real - Before that sliver of hope exists, they aren't even a 'potential customer'. They're just passerby who don't give a shit.

Dreamy videos like this, while not educational to someone who has already invested themselves into following a permiculture way of life, is extremely valuable for the movement as a whole, because it's very appealing to get many people who have never heard of permiculture or restorative agriculture, or intentional communities or sustainable water &  land management to /pause/, just for a moment, and wonder 'Can I do this, too?'

With high-value items, you put your cost at the bottom of the ad, or you don't include it at all - let them fall in love with the idea it - let them dream of having that ideal in their life. Let THEM ask for the cost , already hoping its within their means.
In our case, the 'cost'  is a LOT of physical and mental work, blood, sweat and tears, and accepting that you're going to view the entire world differently than many of your peers. It's a big ask. A very big 'cost'.

We don't want to scare them away right off the bat
--

Plus, we're not necessarily trying to make everyone /Homestead/ - we just want them to learn about permiculture, and apply it in their own life. Hopefully shift toward global sustainability.  None of that requires making 100% of your life-supporting income... or ANY of it, off of permiculture precepts. I know I don't make a dang cent off of the work I do on the land. It just brings me joy, and the satisfaction of bettering my local environment.  

Convincing people that the joy of seeing positive change is enough, without worrying about earning money off the land - that's also a big success, imo.  That's work put in, without 'profit' expected. No worry of the person saying 'Well I cant live off this, so Ill abandon it completely and go back to traditional ag.'
It's making an emotional/psychological impact - not just a profit-motive.
 
William Bronson
gardener
Posts: 4959
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio,Price Hill 45205
938
forest garden trees urban
  • Likes 7
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I find myself turned off by Youtube content that seems to be intent on manipulating me as its main purpose, with knowledge a side order.

I don't think its my place to tell anyone how to run their channel, so I just unsubscribe.

Sometimes it's just the title or thumbnail that's clickbait and there is real information content.
Mind you,watching other people work isn't necessarily any more useful to me than watching them frolic.
Teach me or I unsubscribe.

I see a lot of youtubers go from scrappy do it yourselfers to homestead un-boxers.
I unsubscribe.

There are always other options.
 
Austin Durant
pollinator
Posts: 142
Location: San Diego, California | Zone 10a Drylands (11" precip.)
97
2
cat urban chicken food preservation cooking bike
  • Likes 13
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Jason Hernandez wrote:How can we balance portrayal of the dream with portrayal of the practicalities of making it happen?


I recently discovered this channel, too! After watching a few of the videos, I was able to take away and learn much from it. I appreciate the women's story (and storytelling ability), which inevitably mirrors many of our own. Their perspective as humble tenders of the land is noble and beautiful. The production values are great for DIY, and it's truly a fairytale property, in the rainforests of Australia.

What I think is unique about the sisters' story is that it is a second generation permaculture property. Their parents started it back in the 80s or 90s. To me, that's important to see how a property can progress in just a single generation (and how that would look and how the next generation has taken it over). And I think their transparency (about having to earn a living) is useful and that their content balances fantasy and reality quite well. It's a good lesson to those of we would-be exit-and-build-land-ers who might think getting their property started is the end of the story, when it's really just the beginning.

Sure, dressing up ducks in flower petal hats and clothing may be a bit much, but that's part of their artistic expression, and let's face it, it's damn cute, alright?!
 
Anne Miller
master steward
Posts: 14755
Location: USDA Zone 8a
4083
dog hunting food preservation cooking bee greening the desert
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I watch a lot of reality TV mainly because there was nothing else on TV to watch.

Toko said, "but from a marketing perspective



Like Toko mentioned it is about marketing so it is all about making money.

Real-life could be seen as dull so the producers add in the fantasy to liven the show or the YouTube video up to make it tell a story.

It is entertainment so enjoy the YouTubes for what they are worth. For what you get out of them.
 
Toko Aakster
Posts: 80
Location: Kentucky, USA
93
writing
  • Likes 6
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

William Bronson wrote: I find myself turned off by Youtube content that seems to be intent on manipulating me as its main purpose, with knowledge a side order.



I don’t even see it as manipulation.
It’s telling a story.

Stories may have messages in them, some are purely intended as mindless entertainment, and some ask the viewer to learn some skill or just hope for a better future.

“Realistic” stories can still spin a bias, and still push the viewer to think a certain way on the subject, through presentation and what facts and moments you select.

Even nonfiction accounts of real events will push the author’s own biases and angles.

So, some stories are about the quiet and cute moments. Flower crowns on baby ducks. Listening to warblers and river song on hot days under a cool shade.

Some stories are about choking on the fumes of a infected wound and weeping bitterly into your pillow because the numbers in your account just won’t add up to a treatment that will save the cow’s life.

The harsh storms and the gentle peace -
They’re both part of a more complex truth

I think they’re both necessary
 
William Bronson
gardener
Posts: 4959
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio,Price Hill 45205
938
forest garden trees urban
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I checked out Mother Mountain Farm.
All thumbnails all seem to be advertising a story I am not interested in.
I watched part of two videos, and I got a lot of frolicking and precious little knowledge.
The storytelling isn't compelling to me.
The whole thing feels like a permaculture cosplay.
Maybe there is more there there than I realize, but there are plenty of other content creators who deliver what I'm looking for without the parts I don't want.


If you're actually demonstrating technique or sharing knowledge, you message is liable to be obscured by your marketing.
For example Path of Fire is a blacksmithing channel that focuses on demonstrating technique but markets itself via sex appeal.
If I had been presented with the thumbnails first, I wouldn't have given it a chance.
Instead I followed a recommendation from another channel, so I gave it a chance.
Fortunately the actual content doesn't resemble the thumbnails, but I  don't have to like it, and I don't.


The Weedy Gardener is from a similar part of the world as the Mother Mountain Farm sisters, he tells a great story, his photography is stunning, and he has a good signal to noise ratio.
He even frolics some.
Sometimes he waxes too philosophical for me, and I skip over that.
I think his content is better that that of the sisters.

You can get rocket stove information from Banshee Moon or Green Shortz.
Both of them have a story to tell.
One of them offers considerably more information about rocket stoves.

Both Skillcult and WranglerStar are homesteading  woodsman with some decent content.
One of them has made multiple videos with clickbait titles about barrel stoves.

I think clickbait is a way to tell stories.
I also think it's manipulative and is sometimes used in lue of real content.

Ymmv.
 
Tereza Okava
gardener
Posts: 3648
Location: South of Capricorn
1900
dog rabbit urban cooking writing homestead ungarbage
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I agree entirely with a lot of what's said here.
But I think of it like I think of anything else, TV, books, etc. I take what I want from it and move along. Two extremely educational youtube channels I follow often go in very religious directions, I skip over that and come back for the soil discussions.
Whether I stay with a channel seems to depend on whether they can move from the "unboxing" back to showing me how to do things.
But that is purely because of how I use youtube-- I want to learn. Other people want entertainment. Others want to look at cute farmy things ("cottagecore" is the word that springs to mind).

While I often look at a few youtube farm channels and think, well, my farm would also be a bit nicer if I had a staff and someone giving me a tractor, I realize that those people are making content: that is their revenue stream. They're doing well at it, good for them. Some people code part-time or have a job in town, others sell crafts online or whatever. Good for them all. If it pays their bills so they can show me more useful stuff, awesome.

It might be timely to mention Permies' content related to residual income streams: the big list https://permies.com/forums/posts/read/52364 and the forum https://permies.com/f/196/ri . [i'm not getting a commission here. lol]  

Edited to add: like everything nowadays, it's worth thinking about how the whole game works. We don't pay to watch things on Youtube because our attention is the commodity. Advertisers are paying money and giving people freebies to get my eyeballs to see those products. (the old joke: if you can't tell what's being sold, it's you.) Some people may have started doing youtube purely to share with the world, but I think most are doing it to earn money, maybe so they can afford to live on their farms. Cameras, land, and all the crap we need on the farm are not getting any cheaper. Not saying we have to accept it, but clickbait is part of the scheme, and they're fitting in, so I try to put myself in their shoes (to a certain degree). I am still super thankful, and am so glad I can get great ideas about all sorts of things through this kind of medium.
 
Monica Truong
gardener
Posts: 1883
Location: Trochu, near Calgary, Canada
268
2
homeschooling forest garden books
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
And keep in mind that YT content is whatever you make it. For example, this youtube video made by, Reid, a Boot at Wheaton Labs, is short, to the point and shows something quick and easy anyone could do. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqoBf__Qxxw  And if it makes permies.com more visible, permies.com would make money and permaculture ideas would be spread further - making the world a better place. Not a bad way of making permaculture financially viable.
 
Juan Montes
Posts: 33
Location: Coastal NorCal
10
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I skimmed the video briefly, I'm familiar with the genre, this one does seem to lean more permaculture with people with some experience and skills living rural.  In my understanding, the main thrust of these highly aestheticized videos is to appeal to an audience with an interest in Cottagecore and get those views. The thing with Cottagecore and the people who are into it, yes there's an aspiration to live in the country and do country things, but it's main interest is aesthetic and the audience are daydreamers, and Tumblr users; which explains the highly stylized nature of the videos.  90% of those into this sort of thing will at most put some flower containers out on their deck and buy some overalls, and that's the extend.  Nothing wrong with that, though, the world needs more flowers.
 
PaulL Davis
Posts: 4
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I'm sorry but are there any vlog or gardening videos on YouTube that are not edited? I can agree with you that the channel could show more of the hard work needed to maintain such a place. But if any such video wasn't edited, it last hours if not days.
 
Abraham Palma
gardener
Posts: 961
Location: Málaga, Spain
339
home care personal care forest garden urban food preservation cooking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hello, Pld Dv, and welcome to permies.

When they blame the excessive editing, I think they refer to the emphasis of the aesthetics over the real content. Of course, all videos need edition. I have to record me several times because I keep making mistakes. Sometimes I have to record the voice separately because in the original video it sounds awful.
 
Ken Nierenberg
Posts: 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
To assume that you are the only one who "understands" that reality TV on Youtube is not life as it happens all the time.  It's entertainment and they are no different from the TV stars of the 90s. Why would you fault them from getting paid and endorsing products. Companies are realizing the massive benefit it is to provide free equipment to use on their shows. Of course they are earning money; why do you think everyone and their Aunt Tilly has a Youtube channel.
 
Abraham Palma
gardener
Posts: 961
Location: Málaga, Spain
339
home care personal care forest garden urban food preservation cooking
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hello, Ken, and welcome to permies.

I think the point of OP is that some people might get the wrong idea from these videos, not recognizing what they are about.
If I had to guess, I'd say that OP fell into that idea, and has now (a year ago, already) realized the error.
I too fell to some of that, thinking it was good advice what happens to not be.
 
Mathew Trotter
pioneer
Posts: 595
Location: Oregon 8b
209
monies dog forest garden fungi foraging homestead
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I agree with what William has said about intent. I initially didn't fault channels like this for advertising their content with topless women, since it's certainly an effective way to stand out on the platform. But time and again, no matter how hopeful I was, the content was always selling a fantasy rather than reality. Now I avoid content that's marketed in this way because it has consistently asked for me to invest my time but given me nothing of value in return. It's welcome to exist, it just isn't for me.

Now, I will say, permaculture can be a fantasy. Things finally clicked for me this year and I spent maybe a month in a state of almost continuous flow during the busiest part of the season and none of it felt like work, even if it objectively was. It was just constant amazement over what I was observing, what I was accomplishing, and what I was producing. It was blissful, after years of struggle getting things established. So, I don't think it's wrong to sell a fantasy, because on some level, with a certain mindset, that is what permaculture provides. But personally, I don't find any value in living someone else's fantasy. And if this is the entirety of one's media diet, and then one goes and tries to start a homestead in the mountains or the like, one will be woefully unprepared for the realities of this work. But I can't fault people for dreaming of a fantastical future when they are not ready to take responsibility for their present. That is a quality that can only develop over time.

But speaking as someone who was making Youtube videos and had to stop for a couple of years and ask himself the question "How can I make this permaculture?" I have some unique insights into how the platform functions and how it intersects with sustainable living.

For starters, we all have a tendency to show the good and not show the bad. In my case, it was because the first few years out here were excessively rough because the land had been clearcut and scraped down to subsoil by the owners, which caused a chain reaction of massive population swings amongst the local wildlife. Or because climate extremes made it difficult for plants to establish and finish their lifecycles due to drought, wild temperature swings, oppressive amounts or rain or sun, and the diseases that were able to flourish in these conditions. Things could have been going well for weeks or months just to lose an entire crop overnight. Or to lose all of your crops overnight. I literally had a gopher eat all of my fruit trees one of the years. My annuals didn't stand a chance at all.

And it isn't that I didn't want to be honest about how difficult everything was, and in fact, when people would ask me for updates in the comments I would tell them exactly what happened. But what you have to understand is that in order to make a 10 minute video on Youtube that appeases the algorithm would take 20+ hours of scripting, filming, editing, marketing, etc. Tell me, when you're emotionally devastated by losing all the food you were depending on to survive the winter, if you'd be up for putting in 20+ hours of hard work to announce yourself as a failure to the world. It just doesn't happen, regardless of one's intent. And if the video isn't going to do well, there's even less point in doing it, because I can't even make enough money telling my sob story in order to replace the crops that I lost. And also, do I really want to discourage others just because I had a bad year? Maybe that's useful to know in the broader context, once you know that I was successful in spite of that, but at the time it seems to just do more harm than good to tell that story. At the time, the only perspective I could provide is "you will suffer and no good will come of it." Now I can say "you will suffer, but if you hold fast, your suffering will be compensated 100-fold."

As far as making money on Youtube goes, I don't. Or not practically. I would say that, at the outset, if you think you need to make money to do permaculture, then you haven't followed permaculture theory to its logical conclusion. And I would say that there is enough money to go around on Youtube, because if you are doing permaculture then you will be necessarily reducing your need for income. I have not had income for 4 years and eat like a king. Some people in my community do do paid work, and they share the surplus of their work and I share the surplus of mine. The result is that they get more and higher quality food than they would ever otherwise have access to, and when I need access to a vehicle or some tool or item that I can't produce for myself, then they provide that with all of the money they're saving on food. I "pay" for access to the land with the labor I put in to maintain it, labor that the owner would otherwise have to do themself or hire out at great expense. I produce all of my own food and all of my own seeds and all of my own fertility. There's no ChipDrop here. It's a closed system that benefits from, but does not require, outside inputs. Permaculture does not require me to buy anything, and therefore making money is irrelevant. If one designs their system to require money when they would rather not do the things required to earn that money, then that system hasn't been designed properly. Or if the things you're willing to do for money don't earn you the amount of money that you need, then that system hasn't been designed properly.

So yes, literally everyone on the planet could be making Youtube videos about permaculture, and there would be enough money to go around. Because even while the total amount or value of the money in circulation might decrease, if everyone is growing all of their own food, textiles, building materials, etc., and in a sustainable fashion, then we would all experience more abundance than we would if there were a couple extra zeroes at the end of our bank account balance. Ask anyone I feed if we would be better off if I was instead spending my time on earning an income and they would say that we wouldn't. And in this hypothetical scenario where everyone is making Youtube videos, we would also be a more capable and skillful people, which is something that money can't buy.

As I've tried to figure out how to interact with Youtube in a sustainable way I've had a lot of challenges to face. If a 10 minute video costs me $400+ in labor (not to mention equipment, etc.) and does not earn me $400 in value, then it's not sustainable in the long run. Especially if I'm trying to keep up with an at least weekly upload schedule, which increases my workweek by somewhere in the neighborhood of 50% (assuming I would otherwise put in a 40 hour week on the farm), and steals $1600 a month in labor without returning anything to me. The information and educational content that I'd like to make just does not do well with the algorithm without dressing it up with pretty images, clean scripting and editing, and all the other things that make the algorithm happy. The fact is that most of the people who are interested in my educational content don't care what it looks like, BUT they will never see it if Youtube doesn't recommend it to them, which it won't if I don't invest 20+ hours of labor into it. What I want, and what my subscribers want, is at odds with how the platform is designed to function. This is how you end up with creators who are making high quality permaculture content, and might have 500k subscribers, but then consistently get around 10k views on their videos and make no money. So I've been asking myself if there's any way I can use the platform unconventionally that allows everyone to win.

Here's what I've decided to try: split my content into public, algorithm appeasing videos to let new people know that I exist and am doing good work, and then have my private, raw, unedited, barebones, subscriber-only videos that are packed with knowledge but will never perform well with the algorithm. This separation means that my quality, informational content isn't negatively impacting my standing with the algorithm, and because I'm not investing hours of my time trying to get this content to perform well with the algorithm, I can crank out more of the content that my subscribers like with minimal labor and without having to worry about whether it will ever pay me back for my effort. But the one or more times a year that I want to really make something that's beautiful and artistic and finely tuned, I can do that and make it public, and the algorithm will love it and send me new people who will love all of my other content, but I don't have the onus to make that the majority of my content or to sell an unrealistic fantasy. When one of my experiments fails I can record a 30 second video and upload it, unedited, to let my subscribers know. Without tanking my channel. And that's doable, whereas 20+ hours of work when I'm already an emotional wreck is not.

I think people who turn to Youtube to share permaculture content are quickly overwhelmed by just how unsustainable it is if you do it in the conventional way, and they quickly have to find ways to monetize it in order to keep it going, which so often pulls them further and further away from the permaculture values they claim to profess. If you don't take a step back and apply permaculture principles to the platform itself, it won't be long before what you're doing is no longer permaculture, even if it is pretty.

Youtube is work. Creators deserve to be compensated for the work they do to educate and inspire the world, so I don't fault people for trying to make money on the platform, just as I wouldn't fault someone for working an office job to fund their permaculture dreams either. We're each doing it in our own way. It's unrealistic to think that everyone could stop earning money all at once and there would be no problems. The pandemic taught us how fragile all of these systems are in the face of large, abrupt changes. But with sufficient time, this way of working in the world eliminates one's need for money, because money can't buy you anything greater than you already have. There's more than enough money to go around and there always will be. But people overextend themselves, and the platform makes it easy to do, so people need to be really realistic about what they're putting in and what they're getting out and whether that math works out in the long run.
 
Wolfgang Sattlecker
Posts: 1
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Is it possible that they don't want to show to much  about that side. Seeing the size an volume of the avacados, I would say there is an income. Then in one video I see one of the girls open a chocolate sapota. Omg the income potential there alone could be significant depending on how many trees. I live in Shellharbour NSW and will go to this farm next season just for those Sapotas. She said grandparents planted over a thousand trees. It's possible this land was inherited, so no land payment or house payment. Just because they are not showing us their process or income is no evidence of permaculture failure.
Have you been there??
It looks fascinating to me and next year I will find them and meet them.
 
Douglas Alpenstock
master pollinator
Posts: 4377
Location: Canadian Prairies - Zone 3b
1173
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I am shocked -- SHOCKED! -- to discover that youtube videos of comely young sisters frolicking in the woods in filmy summer dresses would attract a large and lucrative audience!

As noted by others, this is carefully curated and very well photographed to offer a Fantasy Island vision. If the sisters have chosen and are in control of this means of presentation, I think it is perfectly harmless. I mean, consider the horrors easily found on the 'net. This does no harm at all. It's not even on the radar.

And of course, this has little connection to how things are managed on that property. It is an entertainment product pure and simple. I too would find the details generally more interesting than the frolicking. But then I have not done a deep dive on these videos, and maybe there are hints regarding the logistics side.

I will be interested in Wofgang's report. I suspect that an invitation will be required, and some large and humourless blokes will meet you at the gate. Be aware that some people (men) believe the fantasy too easily, and think they can just show up and insert themselves into it.
 
PaulL Davis
Posts: 4
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
For Abraham Palma
I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you. The OP was writing about the editing of the video in order to bolster his belief that the videos aren't really permaculture because they are getting paid for their videos (true Scotsman's fallacy anyone). And I agreed with OP that they should show more of the actual work done. While I'm here I'll add that at least most people make money somehow and part of that money is used in their gardening. So why would he state that them making money off of their videos and using some of that money for gardening means they are not really practicing permaculture?
 
Riona Abhainn
pollinator
Posts: 328
Location: West Linn Oregon, USA zone 8b
43
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Being a fantasy enthusiast myself I'm all for magical-looking rainforest paradise with sisters and ducks and frollicking and flower crowns.  In fact, since I hadn't seen this before, I'm going to go and subscribe right now.  Good for them for finding a formula for making money in the woods that works for them.  If someone wants a more educational video content maker then find one, there are lots of very educational options, options are good and everyone can choose what they want to watch.
 
Go ahead, make my day. And make it with this tiny ad.
Boost Egg Nutrition With This Organic Algae Poultry Supplement
https://permies.com/t/153700/Organic-Astaxanthin-Algae-Poultry-Supplement
reply
    Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic