It took him something like 11 years, a lot of patience, a taste for apples and what my dad describes as "not knowing enough to know it can't be done" - and Steven Edholm of Skillcult did it. This apple's flesh is REALLY red. This isn't one of those pink streaky flesh apples. I am so impressed.
And I want to eat it too! From the level of crossover in his favorite apple descriptions I think that Steven Edholm and I have similar taste in apples, so I am very excited about this new apple prospect.
Very cool news. Regarding my comment about Edholm "not knowing enough to know it couldn't be done" see his post where he explains the rumors that say how he created this apple was not possible. It has to do with all that sort of funny genetic stuff like diploidy genes and such. I'm so glad he tried it anyways. It looks like he did "know" that others thought it couldn't be done and decided not to listen to those rumors. :-)
Nice! And a dessert type apple too. We planted a red-fleshed apple tree this year (Veiniöun, an Estonian variety) but I think it's a "household-type".
In case anyone is wondering how Steven managed to breed apples from seed, and you don't have time to read his actual post (which tells the crosses he had to use to get there, the years of process involved and lots of other highly valuable info), here are some tidbits I've learned.
One of the mysteries of the internet is that a lot of the deeper cultivation practices get lost in the often shallow (as in the depth of info) how-to articles that dominate the SEO of the internet at any one time. So right now, you can probably find a ton of articles that say you can't grow apples from seed. But apples do grow from seed and that's how new varieties are formed in nature and in home orchards across the US. Thank you Johnny Appleseed, for keeping that little tale alive.
The majority of apples from seed will not be true to the parent characteristics, so you have to as they say "kiss a lot of frogs to get your prince". Apple breeders like Steven Edholm commit years - decades - of care and physical orchard space to growing out a lots of seedlings until those trees produce fruit. Then they taste them. And much of the time, the result might only be good for making a rough cider. To breed a dessert apple like he's done is a task only for the patient and dedicated apple lover.
So kudos to Steven for showing us all how to do it. I've loved following his apple adventures the past seven or so years I've been paying attention to it. He also has some awesome videos about potato onions and GIANT leeks.
Kim Goodwin wrote:so you have to as they say "kiss a lot of frogs to get your prince".
I've been following this guy for years and in my understanding of his endeavours, he has shown that the idea of complete randomness in apple seeds is a myth. He has successfully cross-pollinated trees with desirable traits and produced trees with a blend of those traits. He deserves a lot more notoriety and praise for his work than he gets. Nice guy, too.
Kim Goodwin wrote:so you have to as they say "kiss a lot of frogs to get your prince".
I've been following this guy for years and in my understanding of his endeavours, he has shown that the idea of complete randomness in apple seeds is a myth. He has successfully cross-pollinated trees with desirable traits and produced trees with a blend of those traits. He deserves a lot more notoriety and praise for his work than he gets. Nice guy, too.
Right! It's true. Thanks for clarifying that point. He still had to grow a lot out, but not like a thousand trees to get one edible one, like people often imply or believe the case. And the aspect of combining characteristics, which seems obvious, wasn't to the general cultivation world. I wonder why that is? Fascinating.
I think he has great instincts and intuition, too. Like Luther Burbank.
I hope he comes on sometime and explains more of how he started all this apple adventure and his insights. I think this could be the permaculture apple that Paul has so wanted to see make it into stores! I hope he can share grafts someday. I'd love to try it out.
There's a host of red- and pink-fleshed apples listed on Leicester Heritage Orchard Project's website, click the relevant link on http://www.heritageorchard.co.uk/ I've found 3, maybe 4 red/pink fleshed apples locally here in NW England. One I identified as Wisley Crab (marketed as a decorative, so has tax on the price!). That and another got in the way of road development. Two others are in churchyards. I've experience of pressing the fruit of one - fresh apple juice always tastes great, this was superb.
My philosphy with random seedlings is that if there's small-fruited crab involved, that'll tell in the offspring. I've got some choice tasty varieties in my garden, I scatter their seeds where I can. I've some seedlngs of the two red-fleshed trees that made way for the road that are yet to flower - I'm encouraging them by arching the boughs down.
For those unaware, EVERY apple tree, be it a Fuji, a delicious, a golden or what have you grown here in apple country is grown from an established tree, which has been grafted to a rootstock tolerant of our climate.
If suckers (branches) were allowed to grow from below the graft, they would produce an entirely different apple than the apple above the graft.
That aside, I'll have to test drive one of these apples some day in the not too distant future.
Breeding apples is just like breeding anything else. The offspring will tend to have traits that are halfway between the traits of the parents. If you start with great parents, then you get great offspring. Commercial apple orchards tend to grow a few crab apples, because they produce lots of pollen. So crosses will tend towards small tart fruits. The average home orchard that is only growing elite cultivars of apples, will tend to produce elite seedlings.
It might take 5 years or more for an apple seedling to bear fruit, so it's a slow breeding project, but very rewarding when you find the right combination of sweet, tart, size, and disease resistance. There are hundreds of seed-grown apple trees in my community. They are delightful apples: some more suited to cider, others for fresh eating, others for cooking. All of them are immune to the local blights. Many are not bothered by coddling moths.
Kelly Craig wrote: EVERY apple tree... has been grafted to a rootstock tolerant of our climate.
Very true! There's over 7,000 apple varieties in the world, but only a dozen or so rootstocks used in the US. I read an interesting account of a German dentist who grew apples in the far north where 'everyone told him' it was too cold for apple trees. He used a Russian rootstock that was cold hardy and spent his life developing a decent size orchard. It seems the key is the correct rootstock. Apple trees will grow from seed but very few orchards use those trees; most are grafts.
I have quite a few seed grown apples. I also have common nursery grown apple trees, like Granny Smith and Honeycrisp and some of my seed grown trees came from them. All of the nursery types get terrible leaf diseases and rarely make an apple, even those advertised as disease resistant. Most of the seed grown trees don't get the diseases at all. I can't understand that as planting some apple seeds isn't exactly breeding, it's not like they have gone through generations of adaptation.
My only guess is since they are on their own roots and planted in place, those roots have never been disturbed, although I can't figure how that would protect them from disease. I wonder also if younger trees are just more resistant for some reason.
Joseph Lofthouse wrote:...
It might take 5 years or more for an apple seedling to bear fruit, ...
Thank you for this information Joseph. Now I know I need a little more patience with that small 'apple tree' someone gave me (which she got from someone else who grew it herself).
About that red-fleshed apple: how is the taste? To me that is the most important fact. And then comes: how best to store or process those apples, how is the peel (tough, crispy, or soft)? The colour is not that important to me.
He explains all those things in the youtube video posted at the beginning. It's 28 minutes but interesting throughout. You can watch it at 1.5 and still easily understand his talk.
My land has dozens of apple trees, all grown from seed and planted by animals and birds. A couple of them are delicious, some are good but not great and you don't really look forward to eating them but they are fine if you are hungry and walking by. Some are mealy and very bland. Going by my small sample size, it seems to me that maybe 1 tree out of every 2 dozen or so produces very good apples for hand eating right off the tree. I don't have any established orchards by me, so I have no idea where the "original" trees came from. I have planted a lot of established varieties, so I expect that I will get a lot of crosses popping up around the place, and I would expect that I will get more and more really good tasting apples.
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