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Post derailment Ohio/PA chemical issues

 
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Are there any signs of springtime growth in East Ohio, West Virginia, Pennsylvania, New York, New England, Ontario, and Quebec?

Is anyone else following the disaster from East Palestine, OH? I am and I’m very concerned. Contamination spread via the Ohio and Mississippi Rivers will affect 40% of U.S. agricultural. Very little is labeled with the state of origin in grocery stores and when you get into multiple-ingredient foods you can forget about that!

People have been tracking a cloud plume that moved across Pennsylvania, New York, New England, and into Canada. God only knows what’s going to happen.

P.S. I’m working on my self-sufficiency but I’m not quite there yet. It may be another year.
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pollinator
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I hope public pressure can overcome the vested interests in this matter.
- testing of soil and atmosphere
- look at freight procedures
- vehicle condition
- remediation should be demanded

Solutions for the future need to be investigated.
 
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I feel sorry for the folks living in the effected areas.

According to the Ohio Department of Health, once it is in the environment, vinyl chloride is broken down by sunlight in a few days and changed into other chemicals, like formaldehyde. Most vinyl chloride that is spilled in soil or surface water like lakes, ponds, and rivers evaporates into the air quickly. Some vinyl chloride can travel into groundwater where it will be broken down over time.



https://www.foodsafetynews.com/2023/02/questions-raised-over-food-safety-in-ohio/
 
Vanessa Smoak
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John C Daley wrote:I hope public pressure can overcome the vested interests in this matter.
- testing of soil and atmosphere
- look at freight procedures
- vehicle condition
- remediation should be demanded

Solutions for the future need to be investigated.



Testing and remediation? Absolutely but I’m not sure we grasp the gravity of the situation and extent of the damage. I follow Mike Adams and believe he is well-qualified to analyze the catastrophe through his lenses of chemistry, biology, and food science. His worst case scenario is that these highly toxic chemicals will persist for 500 years or more where food is grown and wildlife wanders. The millions of pounds of highly-toxic chemicals should never have been burned. Who made that insane decision???
 
pollinator
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Vanessa Smoak wrote:

John C Daley wrote:I hope public pressure can overcome the vested interests in this matter.
- testing of soil and atmosphere
- look at freight procedures
- vehicle condition
- remediation should be demanded

Solutions for the future need to be investigated.



Testing and remediation? Absolutely but I’m not sure we grasp the gravity of the situation and extent of the damage. I follow Mike Adams and believe he is well-qualified to analyze the catastrophe through his lenses of chemistry, biology, and food science. His worst case scenario is that these highly toxic chemicals will persist for 500 years or more where food is grown and wildlife wanders. The millions of pounds of highly-toxic chemicals should never have been burned. Who made that insane decision???



The "adults".
 
Anne Miller
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Vanessa said, "The millions of pounds of highly-toxic chemicals should never have been burned. Who made that insane decision???



Would you rather have had them run off into the rivers and streams?

This is not the first time something like this has happened.

EPA (Environmental Protection Agency) makes the decisions:

https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/epa-orders-norfolk-southern-conduct-all-cleanup-actions-associated-east-palestine

EPA will continue to work with local, state, and federal partners to ensure the health and safety of East Palestine community

 
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Vanessa Smoak wrote:Who made that insane decision???

I might be naive but I think that HazMat crews look at the MSDS's (Material Safety Data Sheets) of the chemicals and have a reference for what the best way to deal with a spill is given the situation.  It might depend on if it's near a river or if they have a place to suck the stuff up and put it.  So I hope that they chose the least bad option.  I'm probably hopelessly naive...
 
steward
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I agree with Mike and Anne,

The people making the decision had minutes to make the call. There was mass confusion. I am sure they were confident that any decision they made would be wrong. With high winds expected in the area , it probably seemed better to protect the waterways.
 
pollinator
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Who made that insane decision???


The officials on scene were likely haunted by the same thought that I had when seeing first reports of the derailment and fire: "you're looking at a BLEVE if something drastic isn't done fast."

Short of nuclear weapons, a BLEVE (boiling liquid, expanding vapor explosion) is one of the largest explosions that humans can create.

Here's a youtube video of a double BLEVE trigggered by a 1983 derailment in Murdock, Illinois. The first explosion was a single tank car of liquid propane; the second explosion, several hours later, was a single tank car of isobutane.


Tanker carrying liquid propane and isobutane explodes in Murdock Illinois


From the video, one can picture what a BLEVE involving 5 tank cars would do to the surrounding area. The wikipedia entry for the Ohio derailment contains a rather bland statement of the situation:

On February 5, a temperature change in one of the train cars caused fears of an explosion with the potential to disperse shrapnel as the fires continued to burn.



Wikipedia

 
Anne Miller
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I feel now is a really good time to start putting permaculture to work.

Now is a really good time to start getting gardens ready for spring and planning what to put in those gardens.

I feel a really good place would be to start with mushrooms.

This thread is a really good one for someone getting started:

https://permies.com/t/174814/Step-Step-Instructions-Growing-Wine

https://permies.com/t/86495/kitchen/medicinal-mushrooms-cultivate

Also now is a good time to get some indoor plants that clean the air:

https://permies.com/t/171591/Testing-plants-clean-air

https://permies.com/t/63264/permaculture-home-care-cleaning/purity/Herbs-ensure-kitchen-smells-fresh

https://permies.com/t/76743/Plants-air-freshener
 
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Vanessa Smoak wrote:Are there any signs of springtime growth in East Ohio, West Virginia, Pennsylvania, New York, New England, Ontario, and Quebec?

Is anyone else following the disaster from East Palestine, OH? I am and I’m very concerned. Contamination spread via the Ohio and Mississippi Rivers will affect 40% of U.S. agricultural. Very little is labeled with the state of origin in grocery stores and when you get into multiple-ingredient foods you can forget about that!

People have been tracking a cloud plume that moved across Pennsylvania, New York, New England, and into Canada. God only knows what’s going to happen.

P.S. I’m working on my self-sufficiency but I’m not quite there yet. It may be another year.

yeah 95% of the Farms are privately owned in Ohio that's why they're doing what they're doing
 
pollinator
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I live in Warren, which is about 20 some miles northwest of East Palestine. So far as I can tell, spring is starting on schedule &, although people have been worried about it, we seem to be fine, here. But, it is hard to say just how far flung the impact is bound to be.
 
pollinator
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There was another derailment of a  train carrying dangerous chemicals in North Dakota today.
If tjede derailments keep happening at this pace, nowhere is safe...

https://t.co/oNlk6xLysI?s=09
 
I don't get it. A whale wearing overalls? How does that even work? It's like a tiny ad wearing overalls.
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