Beavers, can they just all get along?

The Indian Creek Beavers don't live in Indian Creek, they live in a flat spot beside it with a little ditch running through, which they have worked diligently the last few years to turn into a nice little pond of approximately five acres. Thier nice little settlement happens to be about a 1/4 mile from the mouth of Indian Creek where it enters the Ohio River.

The Ohio River beavers, despite FEMA flood plain regulations, live in elaborate structures, attached to the tops of toppled trees that extend into the water.  These tree top beaver condominiums rise and fall vertically with changes in the pool elevation.  A remarkably durable and ingenious building technique but it has its limits.

Recently a heavy amount of rain served to raise the level of Indian Creek, causing it to inundate the home of the Indian Creek beavers, but they didn't seem to mind. Next however the level of the water in the Ohio River was raised sufficiently and with some velocity of flow the structural tolerance of the Ohio River beaver's constructions, was exceeded.  

So, it appears the Ohio River beavers, perhaps having been denied FEMA reimbursement, rather than rebuilding, just decided to move in next door with the Indian Creek beavers. At first the Indian Creek beavers seemed fine with this until the water in Indian Creek receded, restoring their pond from five hundred acres back to its normal five.  So now it appears, the honeymoon is over. Further observation is required.

I can see a Beaver peace convention coming up, to split the shared use of the water compatible with the expectations of the stakeholders involved.

Well, I can't really tell what's going on with the beavers. They have this big pile of stuff in the middle of their pond, and I think maybe that's where they live but it's obviously not what's holding back the water, so I conclude another structure, just barely visible behind the trees is doing that. The pile in the middle was still visible during the flooding so it must have floated but must also have taken some damage because they are very actively pushing more sticks and stuff up on it. But they are also pulling stuff out of it and dragging it someplace out of view.

I don't really know how many beavers there are, the most I've seen at one time is five. I think there were just two Indian Creek beavers before the flood, so I am guessing that three Ohio River beavers are trying to move in. Altercations between two of the beavers, if you want to call it that, are frequent but I'm not sure if it is the same two beavers. Also, at the risk of sounding culturally insensitive I can't tell the Indian Creek beavers and the Ohio River beavers apart. They really do all look alike, and there is no real indication of who is putting stuff on the pile and who's pulling it out or what the ones pulling it out are doing with it.  

During the aforementioned altercations they mostly just get up on their back legs and using that paddle like appendage that sticks out their back sides as support they just try to push each other around, very much like sumo wrestlers. Sometimes they lose their grip on one another and the shoving match devolves into a slap fight.  In the water they mostly just go around each other in circles, occasionally disappearing beneath the surface for a bit and then popping back up somewhere else. Sometimes they seem to think "screw this" and just go back to moving stuff around as if nothing had happened.

I'm not sure I'll ever really know the whole story of the beavers. Cars roar by their pond all the time and they don't seem to care but I can tell they take notice when I actually stop to watch. Just getting out of the truck can send them slapping the water with their aft appendage and disappearing under the water, and they don't come back in any reasonable amount of time. If all I do is roll down the window, they give me the beaver version of the stink eye. I can't actually see the eye, but I can feel it.  But then after a while, they just go back to pushing stuff around, still getting a better view by approaching closer, is probably out.

There is a spot up the road where, when the mud dries up some, I think I can drag my kayak down the bank and access their pond. Maybe I can sneak up on them. Of course, they might just go under the water and hide, or maybe they would come over and push me around and slap me, and I wouldn't want that, they look pretty big.

Try a game camera.  You can do still photos or videos.  We catch some really fun stuff on ours.

Folks here hate beavers but I love them.  We live in the hills but have a little stream that runs through it.  I would love to have beavers set up shop there.  Not far from here is a much larger stream with active beavers but folks here kill and or trap them when they can.  I would love to have them trap a few and release them on our place.  

This is the soap opera I've been waiting for all my life....

I'm waiting for more information. This is riveting stuff!
I love the complex lives wild critters have, especially when they work themselves in and around human interference.
More stories about beavers!!

Growing up we had a beaver start for a new home and took the ditch off the road to get there. Unfortunately it passed by our dog, a Saint Bernard.

The beaver attacked our dog, striking him 25 times, but the game wardens would not let us put the beaver down. In the end our dog died from the bites, but then the beaver moved on.

I don’t hate beavers as much as a person would think from seeing all that, but it was sad. Mostly they live in peace with us out here.

Mark Reed wrote: Just getting out of the truck can send them slapping the water with their aft appendage and disappearing under the water, and they don't come back in any reasonable amount of time.

I think the disconnect is that your "reasonable amount of time" is being judged in human time.  It's common knowledge that human time is to beaver time what dog years are to human years.  In other words, 70 minutes to you is only 10 minutes to a beaver.  A reasonable amount of time for you to wait is 10-20 beaver minutes.  I think if you try it, you will see that the beavers don't really leave for an unreasonable amount of time.

Yep, in this case reasonable amount of time is completely measured by how long I will sit patiently in my truck waiting to see what they do next. I don't know how long a beaver is able to hold its breath under water but suspect it isn't as long as they remain out of sight. I can only conclude that in those cases where it exceeded my patience and probably their lung capacity as well, they have in fact resurfaced somewhere outside my view.

During my latest observation sessions, the last one being earlier this morning, I have not seen any beavers at all. However there have been some major changes in their village. The original pond having shrunk back to its original size when the flooding receded is significantly larger now and the big pile of stuff I speculated to have been where they lived is completely gone. A new pile that was under construction at the upper end of the of the pond and that I assumed at the time was a new home has in fact been expanded into a new dam and a new smaller pond is forming behind it. A large number of sapling trees have been removed from the area of the new pond and some much larger trees have had the bark and a significant amount of wood removed. The larger trees have big, kind of hourglass shaped indentations starting about a foot or so off the ground.

I don't know why are doing that to the larger trees. They are much too big for them to drag around like they do other stuff, and I can't tell at this point if they intend to cut them all the way down or if for some reason, they just want them to die. I suppose if they cut them all the way down, they can eat the smaller branches or have more stuff to move around and put on their piles, or both.

Overall, with the expansion of the original pond and the development of the new adjacent one, the total area flooded is roughly tripled.  If the Ohio River beavers have officially integrated with the Indian Creek beavers, I can't say but it's clear the beavers have certainly been busy.  

Mark Reed wrote:Yep, in this case reasonable amount of time is completely measured by how long I will sit patiently in my truck waiting to see what they do next. I don't know how long a beaver is able to hold its breath under water but suspect it isn't as long as they remain out of sight. I can only conclude that in those cases where it exceeded my patience and probably their lung capacity as well, they have in fact resurfaced somewhere outside my view.

When we worked at a state park, one of the ponds had a beaver's lodge.

These creatures are very interesting to watch so like you I have spent some time watching them and also learning about them.

These images will help folks understand how they live in their lodges:


source


source


source


source

A little off topic:
So they don't actually live in the dam?

We had some beavers move into the flood plain of the creek we have running through our town,.. beaver creek.
First time we've had beavers on beaver creek that anyone can remember.
So our city council decided to have them removed.

There was one guy who said they are known to build their den by digging into the bank next to the dam.
He said he walked next to a dam and the ground collapsed and he fell in.
Until he said that I always assumed they lived in the dam somehow.

A beaver dam is a dam made of logs and mud, built by a beaver. A dam is something that blocks or slows down the flow of water in a river or a stream. A lake or pond is created behind a dam.
Why do beavers build dams?

Beavers build dams across streams to create a pond where they can build a "beaver lodge" to live in. These ponds provide protection from predators like wolves, coyotes, or mountain lions.

https://www.nps.gov/articles/buildabeaverdam.htm

We Human people need to really figure out ways to coexisting with Beaver people, as difficult as that can be at times. I understand why, as we tend to have quite different long term goals. However, Beavers help to hold water on the land, and can make a significant difference during high rainfall conditions, particularly in situations that could lead to flash flooding. When their dams get damaged, they don't request payment for repairs from the Powers that Be, or require concrete and earthmovers. They just get on with the job!

I also have been told the meat is quite good to eat, and the pelts can be useful, so if we were to get into an overpopulation situation, we can usefully correct it. I would not recommend that approach any time soon, at least in my province. Much less of my province would burn each summer if people followed more of the goals of the Beaver people.

There's an Attenborough segment which shows video footage of inside a dam. It's the coolest! And there's other critters in there with them!

Sliding back under my rock.

Maggie

I went kayaking one time in New Jersey in a pond that had what they said was an abandoned beaver lodge... went to go check it out up close and surprise! Big bad beaver suddenly swimming next to me, the head and body just made me think of a labrador!!! They're awfully big up close..... We got a real good look at each other and it gave a depth charge with that tail and dove, I hightailed it out of there to go look for turtles elsewhere. An amazing experience.

We have a creek that originates on our property. Downstream from us is a large piece of land that the owner ignores. The beavers have taken over a section of the creek on his property and built a huge dam. Unfortunately, they really enjoyed using the trees from our orchard to build it. We have tried to block them from coming upstream to our property, but they seem to always be able to find a way.

Hi, Bob

Welcome to the forum.

Have you tried to fence the beavers out?

Since beavers are a protected species that is all I know that could be done.

I intended to wait until I had some pictures but a quick update on the Ohio River and Indian Creek beavers. The new dam continues to grow in height some but much more so in length. The elevation change in the terrain is very gentle, appearing almost flat so the area being flooded is very large but probably not more than a foot deep in most of it. I haven't seen any more wrestling matches between the beavers but the area of dry land on the road side of the pond is almost gone as are almost all of the small trees. A couple of the large trees have fallen over, and the log portion of one has been cut it two and chewed on in other spots. I can't imagine why they would do that, it's not like they need firewood and even if they cut it to firewood size, the pieces are still too big for them to drag around.  Maybe it's recreational, the beaver version of going to the gym. They do seem to enjoy chopping stuff up and dragging it around, maybe it's come kind of competition.

The new flooding seems to actually be increasing on both sides of the new dam so they must also be expanding the old one, which I can't see from my vantage point. Seems to me, in this case the new one is pretty much redundant, maybe even superfluous. Or maybe the Indian Creek Beavers and the Ohio River Beavers don't really want to live together so one or the other built the new dam to have their own place, I just can't tell. Still no sign of any new residential piles, although I speculate that 75% or more of the total flooded area is out of view.

The new pond has attracted some squatters, or more accurately floaters in the form of a few small dark colored ducks with bright red heads and some geese. One of the smaller beavers appears to harbor some hostility toward the geese but with limited flight capabilities presents little more than a minor annoyance to them.

craig howard wrote:A little off topic:
So they don't actually live in the dam?.

Nope.

They are just like humans building a dam to block water flow and make the head pond rise. We do it to increase differential pressure while they do it to flood more acres. The more acres the more access to saplings they can mow down. In that it becomes circular. When the area is flooded to s point the trees are all cut away, so they raise the height of the dam. As it rises they got more trees to patch holes in the dam. When they run low of trees the dam fuses again.

This is why the original poster has seen width increases and not height increases; they have plenty of trees to still harvest. It will go up when they run short.

Just like any ideal dam site, at some point there is s diminishing return, so they move on abandoning it. As that dam decays, the head pond drains, new tres grow, and in a few years the cycle starts again.

I have two swamps that converge at right angles and the cycle happens between them so much that they have forever been there. They just swap dam sites now and then, but are always there.

One huge word of caution though, beaver poo contains horrific pathogens that can kill humans readily.

NEVER drink the water beavers have been around.

Great beaver story here Mark, waiting for the next chapters.

I have beavers on my land and in the neighborhood, but very little time to actually observe them. From time to time when I find some time just before the sunset, I go for a walk and then I meet them and take some footage with my phone. It is not a good quality, but still ... a beaver is a beaver ;)



[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYzKGi994[/youtube]

And here is possibly the shortest beaver video ever ;)

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3W8w6CiH5iE[/youtube]

A friend has beaver ponds on his land. Here are some photos.
Sharing them via Google drive didn't work. I've made them attachments instead.

I am not sure where on Ohio river your friends are.  Hopefully they will be unaffected by the train derailment and toxic spill in East Palestine Ohio.

I've been fascinated by beavers for most of my life, and have read quite a bit about them besides my own observations which have been extensive at times.  

There were, in the past, three distinctive dwelling types for beavers.  One was the traditional small colony lodge that most people associate with beavers and that Anne showed in her images, and this usually exists in a dammed pond, that contains the mating pair, their offspring, and sometimes a second younger litter; often at this time on an annual basis the youth are sent off to expand the colony.  Many large rivers cannot be dammed at all, and often there are no visible lodges (probably because a regular type of lodge would be washed away; in this case, the beavers dig tunnels into the bank and dwell in the bank of the river.  Sometimes the bank is mounded up with sticks and mud and basically looks like the classic beaver lodge, but jammed against the river's bank.  These river bank lodges are much the same size internally and contain the same number of a single family of beavers.  The third dwelling type is extremely rare nowadays though I have seen a couple of them; this is much like the traditional dammed pond lodge but it is much bigger.  These are like the condominium of lodges and house a large colony.  Early trapping memoirs tell of trapping 20 to 40 beavers at a single lodge.  As far as dams go, beavers don't live in the dams at all, but they do, sometimes, have tunnels into some of the larger dams where they can hide from predators while getting air in above the surface pockets.  They often also have a few of these tunnels around the pond's edges for their own escape purposes; this isn't generally the case with newer colony ponds but in well-established colony pond systems.  

I can't remember how long they can hold their breath but it is considerably longer than the average human is generally capable of, but they do need to surface to breath air, and if they disappear they are either in a lodge, in a tunnel, or they have surfaced in some vegetation out of sight to breath.  They can slip in and out of the surface tension with barely a ripple, and are adept at knowing whether a given known predator can see them from a given vantage point;.  They do have double cheeks so that they can use their teeth to pull trees, limbs, and whatnot under the water without taking water internally.

Large trees are fallen for the sapwood (cambium or inner bark) and bark, which serve as their main food sources (as well as probably medicine).  They also might cut a tree's bark and lick up the sap which is another food source.  Beavers must chew things regularly or their front sets of teeth will grow out of control and wreck their skulls.    

I love the descriptiveness of your beaver observations! Are you by chance, an illustrator? I'm picturing a couple beavers choking each other, Jerry Springer style, or (on the other paw) 2 gentlemen beavers with white gloves, taking turns giving slaps. Either one has coffee exiting my nose.  Thank you for the visuals!

Thanks for the welcome Anne!

I tried a makeshift pallet fence in the creek. They just found a way around it. It’s not practical for me to fence my orchard. It’s been quiet from them for a little while, so I’m probably just going to try and coexist with them for now and hopefully they will stay home.

Bob Spencer wrote:

I tried a makeshift pallet fence in the creek. They just found a way around it. It’s not practical for me to fence my orchard. It’s been quiet from them for a little while, so I’m probably just going to try and coexist with them for now and hopefully they will stay home.

you might want to cover the bases of the orchard trees with tight mesh, like that which is used in rabbit pens.  The beavers not be able to keep killing your trees with this.  They really like apple and cherry sapwood in my experience.  I imagine they will like other fruit sapwood too.  They can coexist with people, but they don't understand not eating tasty sapwood.  That is sort of outside of the sphere of thinking.  

craig howard wrote:A little off topic:
So they don't actually live in the dam?

We had some beavers move into the flood plain of the creek we have running through our town,.. beaver creek.
First time we've had beavers on beaver creek that anyone can remember.
So our city council decided to have them removed.

There was one guy who said they are known to build their den by digging into the bank next to the dam.
He said he walked next to a dam and the ground collapsed and he fell in.
Until he said that I always assumed they lived in the dam somehow.

Beavers live in a lodge, which is often in the pond behind the dam, but they can also build their lodges along the banks of a river, on the bank of the pond or in a lodge attached to the dam on the water side.  I have had beavers here since the early 2000s when they dammed a creek and created a pond of over 5 acres. The first lodge was in the pond, as was the second one as the pond increased in size.  When part of the dam washed out and the water level dropped and exposed the lodge they built others on the banks. As the family grows, younger beavers strike off to build more dams up and downstream. The last four dams have been built on the banks of the ponds.

If you visit the beavers regularly, as I do, and spend time sitting still near the water, they get to know you.  I always leave them treats, apples or carrots. When they swim back and forth to check me out (they have very poor vision) I speak quietly to them.  Now they usually check me out, I greet them, and they continue on their business, even coming up onto the dam in clear sight of me.

I love the beavers; they heal the land.

Jay Angler wrote:We Human people need to really figure out ways to coexisting with Beaver people, as difficult as that can be at times. I understand why, as we tend to have quite different long term goals. However, Beavers help to hold water on the land, and can make a significant difference during high rainfall conditions, particularly in situations that could lead to flash flooding. When their dams get damaged, they don't request payment for repairs from the Powers that Be, or require concrete and earthmovers. They just get on with the job!

I also have been told the meat is quite good to eat, and the pelts can be useful, so if we were to get into an overpopulation situation, we can usefully correct it. I would not recommend that approach any time soon, at least in my province. Much less of my province would burn each summer if people followed more of the goals of the Beaver people.

The problem is in some locations they can do damage out of proportion.  On the canal about a mile from me it passes above a big reservoir.  They if the build a low dam about 80 feet long they back the canal up.  Which can wash the canal bank out dumping it in a reservoir below the canal.  Which at least has the potential to wash the reservoir below it out too.  They in just a few days with 2 to 4 animals can do roughly a quarter to half million dollars worth of damage.  The short term cure is catch it early, bring in a big excavator with enough reach and destroy the dam and reservoir.  Longer term those animals need to be trapped and relocated or destroyed because they like that location and won't give up.  The preventative is burn all the vegetation in a couple of miles of canal and wetland every year so there is nothing to build with when the beaver show up which also isn't a good answer.  This location is a favorite beaver home area and they create a problem every decade or so that it turns into a battle of wills and eventual death or relocation.  In the last 50+ years I remember at least 6 major battles over this location.  So far men have won but if they don't inspect regularly and ever let the beaver get ahead bad things will happen.  Funny thing is that if we could get them to move back up stream  a half mile or so there is a location where we would love a dam 15 feet high or so.  It would be incredibly safe and beneficial.  But it is non optimal habitat whereas the danger area is nearly perfect habitat.

In the creek about 6 or 8 miles from me there is a narrow choke point with a lot of trees and the only real access being to walk an excavator down the creek or up the creek.  The problem is there is a ditch to drain flooding of the flood plain just above that.  But when they back that one up at the choke point they can flood a number of homes that are actually out of the flood plain with the water filling the flood plain first and then rising to the homes.  The advantage is unless it happens at high water it takes a week or more for the water to be a major threat to anything but a few hundred acres of crops.(that can still be pricey)  This one at least requires a serious dam that takes weeks or months to build to back the water that far.

So while I believe in peaceful coexistence in some places others I believe in some sort of kill it or scorched earth policy

Freyda Black wrote:

craig howard wrote:A little off topic:
So they don't actually live in the dam?

We had some beavers move into the flood plain of the creek we have running through our town,.. beaver creek.
First time we've had beavers on beaver creek that anyone can remember.
So our city council decided to have them removed.

There was one guy who said they are known to build their den by digging into the bank next to the dam.
He said he walked next to a dam and the ground collapsed and he fell in.
Until he said that I always assumed they lived in the dam somehow.

Beavers live in a lodge, which is often in the pond behind the dam, but they can also build their lodges along the banks of a river, on the bank of the pond or in a lodge attached to the dam on the water side.  I have had beavers here since the early 2000s when they dammed a creek and created a pond of over 5 acres. The first lodge was in the pond, as was the second one as the pond increased in size.  When part of the dam washed out and the water level dropped and exposed the lodge they built others on the banks. As the family grows, younger beavers strike off to build more dams up and downstream. The last four dams have been built on the banks of the ponds.

If you visit the beavers regularly, as I do, and spend time sitting still near the water, they get to know you.  I always leave them treats, apples or carrots. When they swim back and forth to check me out (they have very poor vision) I speak quietly to them.  Now they usually check me out, I greet them, and they continue on their business, even coming up onto the dam in clear sight of me.

I love the beavers; they heal the land.

Oh, I am so envious! We have beavers on our place but we’ve never seen them, in more than 13 years since we’ve been here.

It just makes me feel so good knowing they’re out there.

C. Letellier wrote:
Funny thing is that if we could get them to move back up stream  a half mile or so there is a location where we would love a dam 15 feet high or so.  It would be incredibly safe and beneficial.  But it is non optimal habitat whereas the danger area is nearly perfect habitat.

Your post made me feel sad, but I wonder if the key is in this phrase: 'non optimal habitat'. What could  be done to turn this area into better habitat for the beavers and get happy beavers and happy people? Is it growing trees, landscaping? I feel that you have identified a possible solution if we could find this key.

We had plastic tile about 18” up around the trunks. They gnawed them off just above it. They took our pear, plum, and sour cherry trees. They also seemed to like our shrubs. They also took the lower branches off of the peach trees. Didn’t bother the apple trees though.

I have thoroughly enjoyed this discussion of beavers, especially the comments of the OP, Jay, and Robert.

This has brought up a question for the OP, Mark Reed.

How do you tell the difference between the Indian Creek Beavers and the Ohio River Beavers?  Do these beavers look different from each other?

Bob Spencer wrote:We had plastic tile about 18” up around the trunks. They gnawed them off just above it. They took our pear, plum, and sour cherry trees. They also seemed to like our shrubs. They also took the lower branches off of the peach trees. Didn’t bother the apple trees though.

I think beavers are bigger than you allowed for. I wonder if 3 ft would be high enough to prevent them from chewing? I wonder if beavers would be motivated and smart enough to move brush over to stand on to defeat your attempts at thwarting them?

They are very intelligent, in that they figured out how to circumvent my pallet fence that I put in the creek to try to stop them from coming into my orchard. Definitely could work to go higher with the fencing around the base of the trees. The interesting part of them cutting down the trees was then they couldn’t get the trees to there site. That was very frustrating for all.