How to stop the fox or at least slow him down

Here in Switzerland the the Bird flu restrictions have been lifted and we have gone to free range with our chickens. The thing is since then the fox has come every single day, during the day, not at night and our flocks are shrinking in numbers up to five a day…

Any ideas on how to stop him or at least slow him down??? Because at this rate we will have gone from 70 to 0 in 3 Weeks.

Have you considered trying to catch the fox in a cage?

What about getting a dog?

I've been using electric netting around my chickens for nearly ten years with great results. The only time I had a loss to predators was when the electrical connection to the fence energizer became disconnected and I didn't know about it, otherwise it has been very effective with zero loss to four legged predators while it is working properly. I have fox on my farm, and electric netting keeps them out.

That’s not a Fox!
Cool to see it hanging out like that

We are in Australia and we needed to get complete netting over our fruit trees anyway so we built and enclosure. Sides go in the ground. I wrote a description on our old website how to do it: chooks

Anne Miller wrote:Have you considered trying to catch the fox in a cage?

What about getting a dog?

To be honest i respect the fox as part of the whole and we live on 14 acres of mountain (very little flat area) without access roads, only hiking path surrounded by forest, so i expect there is more than one of them.
We have 3 Dogs and at night the chickens are loced up and safe.


So it feels we might have to forget free range- go back to fenced of area- if we want to keep the chickens and redesign the areas so that they can still access the stables to keep them clean of flys. And ill will also start peeing all around the area.

Unless theres an other idea out there.

Colin Crawshaw wrote:So it feels we might have to forget free range- go back to fenced of area- if we want to keep the chickens and redesign the areas so that they can still access the stables to keep them clean of flys. And ill will also start peeing all around the area.

I hear you Colin, although in my case the problem is Eagles, and peeing won't help! I'm now locking up our Muscovy whenever I'm not in the field and considering we're finally getting nice whether and there are lots of worms and greenery for them to be out foraging, we were loosing a female every week to 10 days and I was fast running out of my breeding stock!

My long term goal is to get some paddocks built that I can rotate the birds through, with enough shrubbery to discourage the flying predators. Considering I had two Ravens fly through the door of the Khaki shelter, injure two of my sitting ducks, and steal all 14 eggs they were on, I'm not beyond considering that the paddocks may actually have to be covered as Angelika is planning to do!

I also understand your wish to let nature be nature, but I have found in the past that if I've got 1 or 2 troublesome wild animals who've decided my homestead is their pantry, I may have to cull them. This has been true of racoon. Racoon are still around my farm, but if they aren't killing my ducks, I just ignore them. However, if I see signs that they've decided my ducks are easier hunting than all the wild things in the area, I will take out a few and that's been enough that generally, I have no problem with them for 2-3 years if not longer. I don't know if that will work with foxes, or whether it would be allowed, or whether you will feel it necessary (if they start breaking into every protective enclosure you build for example).

If you do decide to build infrastructure, I have stopped using chicken wire because we've found in our area that there are too many predators (like coons) that can rip right through the chicken wire gauge that's available to us. We now use what Canadians call 'hardware cloth' anywhere near the bottom, and various types of farm fencing higher up.

Jay Angler wrote:If you do decide to build infrastructure, I have stopped using chicken wire because we've found in our area that there are too many predators (like coons) that can rip right through the chicken wire gauge that's available to us. We now use what Canadians call 'hardware cloth' anywhere near the bottom, and various types of farm fencing higher up.

Americans call it "hardware cloth", too.
It's a heavy gauge wire and the mesh is measured in the size of holes - 1/2 inch hardware cloth, or 1/4 inch hardware cloth for smaller areas, but I also use it pretty universally around the birds - it's great for lids on open totes for brooders or as the bottom layer of fencing around a pen. Makes nifty mesh for screening soil/compost, too. Very useful thing to have on hand.

I use 'rabbit' fence for most of my separation pens in the bird yard. It has sturdy wire of a heavy gauge and is spaced with narrower rows of wire at the bottom, gradually increasing up the fence - in theory it's to prevent small bunnies from climbing out by fitting through the wire. Some goat fencing is set up the same way, with larger support wire spacing. The rabbit fence works just as well for young chickens (older than 8 weeks); chicks seem to be able to work their way out without problems.

I haven't had to deal with foxes. Bobcats, raccoons, and opossums, though, are a problem here. I have a live trap that has worked to prevent repeat offenders from repeatedly offending too much. I'll give a polite critter a single release; impolite ones (I can factor in fear response) don't get that. If it's dangerous for me to release the critter, I would rather the critter not be a potential danger.

I believe that good fences make good neighbors, and that the philosophy works across species boundaries. There are the pheromone barriers (like peeing for canines and humans), bait barriers (like dried blood meal to keep deer away from gardens), and structural barriers. You can use sound, motion, and negative reinforcement, too. There are motion sensitive water sprinklers that can be used to wet down an encroaching critter. I'm not sure how well they work, long-term, but they are a possible layer of prevention without anyone/thing havening to feel pain. Flash tape, wind spinners, and motion sensitive sensors connected to radios or other sound generating equipment are other potential layers in a protection zone. How well they might work depends on the environment and how much you are willing to tolerate in the form of noise, random water, or flashy, spinning things that move in the breeze.

I've always wondered about predators. We don't seem to have any. The only thing I can figure out is that our chickens must have a very high lead content. Because all it has ever taken is for some foraging animal to eat one chicken, and the miscreant falls over dead from lead poisoning.

Thanks for all the great answers!

We have decided to rearrange our design and to start building fences, so now looking for ways to finance as we our in our first year and could spend on everything- about that are there any funding funds for  Permaculture setups? and we would love for everyone to subscribe to our youtube channel, so it becomes an income source aswell.

Anyway as we only have  “rescue chickens” - chickens people from our area can’t keep anymore, we tend to have new one arriving regularly and just agreed with our local Batterychicken farm, that i can have up to 4000 every 4-5 months for free it saves him the slaughter cost’s.  

And that make’s me wonder will the fox ever have enough or will i have every single fox in Switzerland living in my area soon???

Anyway one thing for sure i don’t believe the fox is worth less than our chickens so call me a romantic if you like, i just believe that we all have our role to maintain without killing each other ❤️

I never had a problem with foxes, my SIL in another town had huge problems - at twilight, but sometimes during daylight as well.
A friend over at the allotment had a goshawk creeping through the netting.

But I wanted to comment on the rescue chickens:
Maybe you want to reconsider taking in all those chickens. Talking from the experience from above mentioned friend, you more or less only take them in to die. Most are too exhausted to lay eggs or really get into good health again.
You are relieving the conscience of the battery breeder and helping - involuntarily - to keep this vicious cycle in place. He is happy he does not have to deal with the costly and nasty part of slaughtering and just will keep ordering new stock and dump the old ones to you.
So the direct action might seem ethical, but the overall impact keeps an inethical system up and running.

Colin Crawshaw wrote:And that make’s me wonder will the fox ever have enough or will i have every single fox in Switzerland living in my area soon???

Nature is all about balance. All the foxes in Switzerland are not going to give up their fought-for turf even if you're giving away 4000 chickens twice a year to them. What will happen, is that the foxes you currently have in your area, will produce larger and more successful litters, while the "easy pickings" are available.

Tired Industrial Chickens haven't a hope of surviving a wily fox. This is no more humane than what the farmer would have done with them. Chickens raised with real moms - even foster moms - learn to watch the sky for predators, learn to take cover and stay quiet and still when the "alarm" is raised by whichever bird spots the trouble first.

There was a lady down the peninsula from my farm who was "feeding the poor hungry racoons". Eventually, enough neighbors complained that she quit - cold turkey! Bad move... Those racoon spread out into exiting territories putting pressure on the resident racoons. It spread out like ripples in a pond, with desperate coons challenging every small flock owner on the peninsula. We often go 2 to 3 years without coon losses. We ended up having to kill far more than I would have preferred to get us back to, "leave that farm alone status." I *know* we've got coon on our land, in the same areas as we have chickens. We see their prints and their scat. I don't know exactly what they are eating, but it's *not* my garbage (we make sure of that!) and it's *not* my birds. I've heard they will eat rats - power to them if they will!  

Part of existing within nature, is keeping the wild in wild animals.

Now if I could figure out how to do that with the local eagles, my Muscovy would be having a better spring.

To add to Jay's post: in addition to increasing the fox population in your area by feeding them unprotected chickens, you will also teach the foxes that eating chicken is good and safe.

More foxes, trained in chicken hunting: The neighbors might resent that, especially after loosing their chicken which may be more valuable to them (breeding stock of rare breeds for example). You can ask a hunter to take care of your problem fox, you will probably make more friends that way.

What I got from permaculture, by Mollison, is to go from consuming food to producing it.

Nature is all about balance. All the foxes in Switzerland are not going to give up their fought-for turf even if you're giving away 4000 chickens twice a year to them. What will happen, is that the foxes you currently have in your area, will produce larger and more successful litters, while the "easy pickings" are available.

Tired Industrial Chickens haven't a hope of surviving a wily fox. This is no more humane than what the farmer would have done with them. Chickens raised with real moms - even foster moms - learn to watch the sky for predators, learn to take cover and stay quiet and still when the "alarm" is raised by whichever bird spots the trouble first.

There was a lady down the peninsula from my farm who was "feeding the poor hungry racoons". Eventually, enough neighbors complained that she quit - cold turkey! Bad move... Those racoon spread out into exiting territories putting pressure on the resident racoons. It spread out like ripples in a pond, with desperate coons challenging every small flock owner on the peninsula. We often go 2 to 3 years without coon losses. We ended up having to kill far more than I would have preferred to get us back to, "leave that farm alone status." I *know* we've got coon on our land, in the same areas as we have chickens. We see their prints and their scat. I don't know exactly what they are eating, but it's *not* my garbage (we make sure of that!) and it's *not* my birds. I've heard they will eat rats - power to them if they will!

But I wanted to comment on the rescue chickens:
Maybe you want to reconsider taking in all those chickens. Talking from the experience from above mentioned friend, you more or less only take them in to die. Most are too exhausted to lay eggs or really get into good health again.
You are relieving the conscience of the battery breeder and helping - involuntarily - to keep this vicious cycle in place. He is happy he does not have to deal with the costly and nasty part of slaughtering and just will keep ordering new stock and dump the old ones to you.
So the direct action might seem ethical, but the overall impact keeps an in ethical system up and running.

To add to Jay's post: in addition to increasing the fox population in your area by feeding them unprotected chickens, you will also teach the foxes that eating chicken is good and safe.

More foxes, trained in chicken hunting: The neighbors might resent that, especially after loosing their chicken which may be more valuable to them (breeding stock of rare breeds for example). You can ask a hunter to take care of your problem fox, you will probably make more friends that way.

Thanks for this input for sure food for thought!!! And yes I know they are basically living dead chickens, just in my situation perfect for what I need them for they are free and they shit and scratch. Our land has been fallow for the last 40 years and really really is in need of a massive regenerative makeover and so much money is needed to do everything I need to do, we have 11 Buildings and as long as they are free, shitting, killing ticks and turning our compost I am not even really worried about having to many eggs for now...  And I know for sure as a one man army I can't change the system so better  play it for the improvement of our Land, so I. can set an example on what can be done with Permaculture in a very conservative agriculture part of Switzerland, at least until I have built a proper free range compound as I will need

But you are both right and I hope you understand I do what I can, with the options I have possible.

By the way, this morning I asked if you would subscribe to my YouTube channel without leaving a link to it so here is my newest video io just released this evening...

But one thing is really clear readingall your inputs, the fence has moved right up my priority list, as i don’t want the fox to think its easy and a free buffet for ever round here

Thanks i’m reading learning and thinking always

Colin Crawshaw wrote:.....i don’t want the fox to think its easy and a free buffet for ever round here

Thanks i’m reading learning and thinking always

Yes,.....That's why we have a fenced perimeter that keeps the dogs in to protect the chickens.  For those chickens that decide to wander past the fence and up onto the road to peck at gravel stones, it's like hanging a "Kentucky Fried Chicken" or "Chick-fil-A" sign on the mailbox ...... (American reference to popular chicken-based fast-food).  Now if we could just train the foxes and coyotes to prefer roosters to hens! :-/

Colin Crawshaw wrote:
But you are both right and I hope you understand I do what I can, with the options I have possible.

Thanks for the explanation! I respect your choice and wish you good luck.

You are also damaging the foxes ability to live as they are supposed to.  Giving them free easy to kill food does not teach young foxes how to survive as well. you are building a false economy for the foxes.  The local foxes near your farm can get plenty of easy to catch chicken.  They will be able to raise large litters of kits but they won't be training those kits how to survive hunting mice and other small wild critters the way they would normally do in the wild. They will be teaching their kits how to hunt and kill dumb worn out chickens that don't know they should even run from a fox.  The kits won't have any real hunting skills so when the go out on their own, they will have no choice but to hunt chicken whether they hunt your chickens or someone else's chickens won't matter.  The young adult kits may starve because they didn't get the hunting skills they would normally have gotten if their parents had taught them to hunt mice or voles or rabbits.  The kits might end up getting trapped or shot because they were going for someone else's chickens.  

Yep having to fence them in sucks, yes, it costs money.  I had to stop raising specialty breeds due to the foxes and raccoons around my area the last couple years.  It really sucks when the foxes and raccoons are killing chickens that are worth 25 to 40 bucks each.   I only let my personal egg laying chickens free range in my winter goat pasture. I always have my dairy goats in there the meat goats go out on rotational grazing in May.  The goats seem to keep the foxes and raccoons from coming in during daylight hours and if I lock up the chickens before it gets too dark, I rarely lose one these days.  I did have to trap, shoot and kill a large number of foxes and raccoons the previous two years. I had them coming in during broad daylight right into my fenced in chicken yards.  My terriers got a couple too.  This year, my traps have been empty and there have not been any daytime raids.  

I keep meat chickens in chicken tractors with fold down wings which stops predators so far.  We have had bear sightings near my farm so I don't know what I will do if I have bear problems the bears are protected by law in our area.  

I do not like having to shoot the foxes.  I think they are beautiful.  But they need to be out there hunting the stuff they should naturally be hunting.  I gave up on raccoons they are just trash pandas to me these days they cause so much trouble that I can't even call them cute anymore.  Which sucks because i used to think they were cute.  Those days are gone.  

Right here is an Update, to this thread from my side


Friday we where both away from the Farm, I was in School ( local Farmers, school, becoming an "official Swiss farmer" not just a permaculturist and my Wife was standing at our Marketstall at the local Farmers Market ( got to make a living where we can) And it was a Massacre, we lost 15 in one afternoon...

Thats it we decided, we have gone back to locked up keep, and to balance things out the universe sent us a family who wanted to get rid of there 5 chickens, we don't just take unwanted chicken from farms but from families aswell And the loverly Mother was so thankful for us taking the 5 chickens she gave us 100 Kilo of chicken feed as a thank you... Wow I am really thankful for that, I can tell you. So we are back to Pen kept Hens and I have to redesign my fencing and Pens to some how make hot safe for the chicks to clean my stables and turn my Compost with out

damaging the foxes ability to live as they are supposed to.  

or attracting the Wolf, because I am pretty sure the Foxes can't eat all the Chickens at once, so they must be storing them some where and I bet It smells great for animals like the wolf

O and i`ve got a scarecrow sat around wearing my clothes and I pee on him daily so he smells of me to help me out with security.

And now we have gone a full 3 days without losing a Hen and I plan on it to stay that way. Even asked in our last Swiss German video for meschfencing and can go pick up a truck full tomorrow for free...

Feeling like a real lucky Ducky... Thank you for your inputs.


Next Question what do you think, I want to get Peacocks to help me with our Snake population, are they clever enough to avoid the fox?

Lock them up in the coop and put steel traps around, is there a bunch of dogs that roam around you?

My experience with peacocks is limited to a few that had been turned out to live in a public park, and were trying to populate Eastern Texas with wild/feral peacocks and the feral flock one of my cousins (someone of some relation through my maternal grandmother) had.

Peacocks are fast. Seriously speedy, compared to chickens. Well, I could run faster and outsmart a chicken to catch it. I was not able to run faster and/or outsmart a peacock or peahen.

Peacocks are also weighed down with those huge tails. Peahens have better survival than guinea in the Kansas hinterlands, Peacocks, being flashier and having to negotiate those long tails did not do as well with dogs, feral cats, or whatever else was willing to pick on a good-sized bird. In Texas, the feral population had reached a state of equilibrium with the local wildlife. In Kansas, my relative's flock ebbed and flowed depending on how much care he had decided to give them that day. Feral dog and cats did more damage to the peahens and guinea, if only because they tended to roost in trees or sit on a nest in a bush.

Basically, I have no advice. Peacocks are flashy, noisy, bold, and ... edible. Some people swear by them; some people swear at them. They make good guardian animals if their particular skills fall within what they can do.
Can a fox catch them? Sure. Will they help with snakes? No idea.

I'm sorry you lost those hens. I'm glad you were able to help that family and provide a home and that your ability to help granted you a bonus of feed.

hey make good guardian animals if their particular skills fall within what they can do.
Can a fox catch them? Sure. Will they help with snakes? No idea.

Thanks Kristine for your experiences, the eating snake part is the main reason we would like to cultivate Peacocks and -Hens on our Farm.  I have the idea from India there you find Peacocks in lots of villages for their, snake eating abilities. I would even go as far from what I have read and heard is to say the more poisoneus the more the Peacock want them.
And then of cause there is their wonderful looks, it will be an extra onus for the Hikers that walk through to be welcomed by one.

Colin Crawshaw wrote:

hey make good guardian animals if their particular skills fall within what they can do.
Can a fox catch them? Sure. Will they help with snakes? No idea.

Thanks Kristine for your experiences, the eating snake part is the main reason we would like to cultivate Peacocks and -Hens on our Farm.  I have the idea from India there you find Peacocks in lots of villages for their, snake eating abilities. I would even go as far from what I have read and heard is to say the more poisoneus the more the Peacock want them.
And then of cause there is their wonderful looks, it will be an extra onus for the Hikers that walk through to be welcomed by one.

Why would you want peacocks for snakes? In all of Central Europe the snakes are getting status of endangered species. The more common one is Ringelnatter (grass snake) and it eats mostly frogs, toads and maybe mice. The only poisonous one is the Kreuzotter is the adder and it is highly endangered in Switzerland. They feed on similar small creatures and will not be a danger at all for your chickens.

As for the chickens, I know people keep goats together with their flock to deter attacking birds of prey (for example for those with a chicken tractor and a big freerun pen).