The grow bag kiddy pool system

I'm completely insane at this point. I have got to stop watching YouTube!!  I watched several videos on the kiddy pool bottom watering system.  Lots of variations, but basically the same concept.  Now I'm going to try it.
First of all I have no intention in replacing my garden beds with this system. I think worms and soil life are very important.  I still plan to give it a try. I've had trouble with bell peppers getting blossom end rot. My soil isn't lacking in calcium, and have no problem with any other pepper that I've tried. I believe it's inconsistent watering. So maybe with this system bell peppers will grow for me.  What intrigues me about this method is the plants basically water themselves.
I'm going to try 2 methods. In one I'm going to fill the bottom of the pool with rock. Set plastic nursery pots on the rocks.  Fill the water to the top of the rocks. I may put some cotton cloth in the pot out of the drain hole and into the water because I don't know if the pots can wick up enough water just sitting on the rocks. I thought this way mosquitoes won't lay eggs in the water, and bees and other insects can use it to drink.
Method 2 use actual grow bags that sit in the pool with a couple of inches of water in the pool. I will put duckweed on the water to keep mosquitoes from using it as a breeding ground, with the bonus of having duckweed for the chickens and in the garden.
I figure besides Bell pepper, maybe watermelon, tomato, cantaloupe, ???

Have you tried this?  I'd like to hear suggestions, changes, any advice or info you have.
Thanks

I know about watching gardening videos on Youtube. There are so many ideas on there. I have an old kiddie pool I wanted to use for planting, too. I am interested to hear how it turns out for you.

Dear hubby tried the grow bags way back when they were first introduced.  I don't think he was impressed.

Kiddy pools used to help keep the bags watered might be a great idea.

One year we tried growing plants in kiddy pools and that was a complete disaster.  There was not enough soil depth for the plants so the next year we removed all the dirt.  Cut the bottoms out of the kiddy pools and then the plants grew okay.

I think of this as backyard chinampas.
I'm trying it in a stock tank, with buckets, coolers ,milk crates etc.
The grow bags are sitting in the coolers.
So far I've coplanted planted tree cuttings and winter squash, and transplanted some jchokes.


To combat mosquitos,  the more advanced kiddy pool systems use  a float valve that prevents the water from getting too high and fill the bottom of the pool with sand.
This let's the bags wick up the water and keeps mosquitos out.
I opted for mosquito dunks as a cheaper alternative.
I considered fish or frogs, and I still might get some.

I also have been tossing greenery in7to it, using it as a huge weed tea brewer.
So far it's swampy, but not stinky.
This funky stew is my main source of water on that property.
I ultimately want to pass it through a sand filter on its way to an olla irrigation system.

I think kiddy pools are a weak point in this system.
For what they are, they are expensive and not durable.
A pallet wood frame with a tarp is cheaper and just as good, in my opinion.
I am considering building an table height version as a place to start seeds and cuttings, with  dry storage underneath.
The grow bags are an expense I would rather dodge,along with any special wicking soil.
Plastic containers are easy to come by .
I'm still working on the fiy wicking soil.
Charcoal and leaf mold are my leading contenders.

There was a cost for the pools and grow bags. I work for a Co-op, and get a very good discount which helps a lot.  I didn't put holes in the pools yet. We rarely get rain this time of year. I wanted to see how it goes. If I don't like the system I can use the pools for the dogs, or chickens.
I've thought about mosquitoes dunks. They are supposed to be organic. I would rather not use them, but if the duckweed doesn't keep the water covered, it may be what I have to do.
The first one is done.  4 grow bags. Watermelon I( I grew from seed) in one, and a bell pepper ( I bought) in one. I need to add a main plant to the other two, and a few companions.

Jen Fulkerson wrote:I've had trouble with bell peppers getting blossom end rot. My soil isn't lacking in calcium, and have no problem with any other pepper that I've tried. I believe it's inconsistent watering.

Hey Jen.. I’m not a fan of anything but in ground growing (to each his/her own!), but I hope I can help with the blossom end rot. As I understand it, there is an important balance between calcium and magnesium to prevent nutrient lock up. I am in the high desert of Nevada, and there is no shortage of calcium in my soil, but I was experiencing blossom end rot in tomatoes and peppers. I amend the soil, and supplement my compost tea with dolomite lime (calcium magnesium carbonate), epsom salt (magnesium sulfate), Langbeinite (potassium, magnesium, sulfur), and some Redmond sea salt. Sorry if this answer is off topic, but I hope it helps! And if anyone more knowledgeable cares to weigh in on this, I would love to learn more..

I tried the "air pruning" thing a few years ago, which was supposed to be the greatest thing, but I came to the conclusion that something like this system is the only way it could work here. People talked like it was so easy, but I found I had to water everything three times a day just to keep them alive, with not much yield to show for it. I've also been meaning to come up with some tray system for small pots. I lose too many projects by forgetting to water them.

Thanks Ted I'm always interested in learning something new.  It might be worth a try. The strange thing is I don't have a problem with anything else. Tomatoes and other peppers grow well with no problem.

Jen Fulkerson wrote:Thanks Ted I'm always interested in learning something new.  It might be worth a try. The strange thing is I don't have a problem with anything else. Tomatoes and other peppers grow well with no problem.

That’s curious.. hard saying, not knowing.

Pool #2. It's a smaller pool. Wanted to try a couple different ways, but didn't want to spend to much.  First a layer of rock. Pots on top (pots I had from something I bought in the past). Small layer of rock in the bottom of the pot.  A piece of weedcloth.  A layer of old wood chips. Soil.  Then I added more rock around the pots.  I fill the pool just to the top of the rocks.  This way I think the pots should be able to wick the water needed for the plants. Side benefit it should provide water for the beas, toads, lizards, and other little beasties.
Will they work?  Time will tell.  Honestly I have my doubts about #1 it just seems like it will be too much moisture all the time.  Makes me wonder if I should let all the water dry away before adding more. Then my duckweed will die.  ??? We will see.

Jen Fulkerson wrote:Pool #2. It's a smaller pool. Wanted to try a couple different ways, but didn't want to spend to much.  First a layer of rock. Pots on top (pots I had from something I bought in the past). Small layer of rock in the bottom of the pot.  A piece of weedcloth.  A layer of old wood chips. Soil.  Then I added more rock around the pots.  I fill the pool just to the top of the rocks.  This way I think the pots should be able to wick the water needed for the plants. Side benefit it should provide water for the beas, toads, lizards, and other little beasties.
Will they work?  Time will tell.  Honestly I have my doubts about #1 it just seems like it will be too much moisture all the time.  Makes me wonder if I should let all the water dry away before adding more. Then my duckweed will die.  ??? We will see.

One thought that comes to mind.. you could make a low water mark on the wall of the tub so that you know when it’s time to refill. That way the duckweed never dries out, and I think the fluctuation of the “water table” would benefit the roots in a similar fashion to deep soaking. Curious to see how this works out for you, so please keep us updated!

I posted all the steps, but forgot about the soil. I mixed organic compost, organic potting soil, perlite, and a mix of organic fertilizer ( kelp meal, green sand, bone meal, blood meal, biolive, &  azomite.) I mixed equal parts of each. I added a couple of handfuls to each batch. I want the soil to have what the plants need, but didn't add much, because the soil and compost already have that stuff.  I tried to make the soil for both pools similar. They are not exactly the same because I used the soil I already had. I got 3 bags of organic potting soil 1/2 off. Not my usual choice, but good soil, and even better for half the price.  Anyway they are pretty close to the same.  I never add perlite, but I felt in a system like this more air space is needed.  
Now I have to decide what to plant.  Then the fun begins.  I can't wait.

The water pool is on day 11. The pepper looks good. The watermelon not so great, but I decided to split it, to hedge my bets just in case this doesn't work. I was thinking it was looking pretty crummy, but noticed the ones I planted in the soil look just as crummy.  It's probably a combination of transplant shock, and a strangely cool spring.  
Most notable is algae growing in the pool.  At first I was very concerned. I've read it's not a big deal. Actually algae can be used as a fertilizer, so I will scoop it out and put it in the soil.  The duckweed seems to be growing well.  
I'm still concerned the soil is just to wet all the time.  Some combat this by letting the water dry up between watering. I can't do that and grow duckweed.  My solution (hopefully) is to elevate the pots a bit.  I have plastic grates that come with the cuttable filter we buy for our air conditioners. I'm going to put some bricks in the bottom of the pool. Put the plastic grates on the brick, the pots go on top of that. This way there will always be enough water for the duckweed, but the pots can dry a little, and just not be in so much water all the time.  That's the plan anyway.
The rock pool garden is ok. Not much progress, but what can I expect at less than a week. Not to mention the tomato and pepper plants were ones I started in January. Those poor things have been in 4" pots way to long, were hardened off 3 or 4 times and now and then didn't get watered.  They are the extras, and deserve to be planted because they have managed to not die.  
The only other thing of note is how much the water level goes down every day.  I would say it's about an inch a day, and it hasn't been very hot yet.  I'm not sure if it's evaporation, critters drinking, or the soil, probably all of the above. Anyway it surprised me how fast it goes down.

Love the idea, but mostly the observation and problem solving Jen.
Plant Abundance on YT pushes this one I think. He covers the top edges and sides with burlap to prevent the UV breakdown...among other things. UV, plastic and water don't "mix" well in chemistry. Please consider the cautionary tale you might come across in the DIY concrete olla thread.
Anywho, about your water dissipation. I bought some of them just to soak my trays instead of top watering on my sun-porch and grow room, works great btw. A little rack to let them drip when they are done works well.
I had to hold them up to the sun and look through half a stack before I found ones' without imperfections. Some were so bad I could see thru them, very thin, and some with pinholes. I can see rocks, bricks etc. used in them being an issue if one isn't careful.
1 of mine is on concrete and 1 on wood surface. I bottom padded them both. Might want to do the same on the inside if using aggregates or bricks, anything abrasive or pokey. Check the ground where your placing to.

Hard trying to get all the different pieces of our puzzles to "work" properly huh. Like the wicking idea, more wicks, wider wicks? And considering our winged friends and foes, top notch. Will&Wit

The water pool has been changed. I think it was the right move.  I had my son help me lift the pots out of the pool to make sure the pots didn't rip. They are pretty thick so no problem. Put brick in a triangle pattern under where the pots will go. The grate on top. Pots on the grate. Fill water just under the pots, so they can dry out a little. I think this was a good move. When the pots were on the grate I could hear water draining from the pots. I will have to play around with it, but I figure I will fill the pool to just above the bottom of the pot once a week. I will keep an eye on them and adjust as needed.

It just occurred to me with the grate in the pool I won't be able to harvest the duckweed.  Hmm I may have to only put the grates under the pots. Oh well it's a work in progress.

I was so excited to try this experiment. To be honest I'm not impressed.  It's a combination of reasons I believe. The main one I knew going in. I don't do a lot of fertilizing. I believe in doing my best to create the best soil I can.  I always add some organic fertilizers before each planting season, and that's it. Honestly I just don't need to do more. For the most part my plants thrive in my hugel beets.  For the pool method I have a feeling I need to be fertilizing on some kind of regular basis.

Next it's amazing how fast the water evaporates.  I have to add water every couple of days.

The grow bag system is better now that I elevated the bags so they can dry out a bit between watering.  Nothing is thriving!  The bell pepper is probably doing the best. It looks ok, and does have a pepper on it. We will see if it makes it to maturity.  The zucchini looks ok. Melons are not growing much ( we are just starting to get hot weather, so that may help).

The rock system isn't working well at all.  Maybe not enough holes in the bottom, maybe the wrong soil?  The tomato and watermelon pots may be to tall, I read the pot shouldn't be more than 12" tall.    
Most of the plants are just hanging on. The tomato looks like its on deaths door.  I have been watering the tall pots if they seem to need it when I add water to the pool.  I'm going to make some worm casting, or compost tea and start watering with that.

It may be something I'm doing wrong, or not doing. But so far this is not worth the time and effort it's taking.  I kind of thought it would be the opposite.  The only redeeming quality is if I can crack the code it will allow me to grow over our septic and leech lines, something I can't do in a conventional way. Other than that all the other garden methods I have tried have out performed this one. I'm not giving up, so we will see.

It's past time for an update.  The plants are doing much better, but in all honesty my symptoms are a total fail.  I realize my multi useful pools are my downfall.  The grow bag system would work if I let the water go down enough to let the bags dry in-between watering.  In trying to keep enough water to keep the duckweed healthy I was keeping the plants to wet.  I put bricks in the bottom with greats on top so I could keep the duckweed alive without drowning the plants.  Mostly I water the same as everything else, so not saving me time.
The rock system would work better with some modifications I believe.  The short pots act like I feel it's supposed to.  I think the taller pots were just to tall.  To make this system work I think I would have to add a lot more rock and fill the pool more.  As it is the water evaporates in a couple of days.  Still having to water about every two to three days.  Now that I'm watering when needed in the tall pots plants are doing better.  It's been a fun experiment, but I'm not sure I will try it again.

I learned a lot, and enjoy trying new things. I'm pretty sure I will not use these wicking pools next year.  The peppers survived and produced, but nothing special. Nothing else did anything.  
I tend to be stubborn and when something doesn't work, I try until it works. With this experiment I think I will decide it's not for me, and move on.

Such a fascinating thread! No way I could do it here in AR with a herd of deer roaming the neighborhood, drinking any standing water including the birdbath. And munching on nearly everything that is green and growing. But I really enjoy seeing your experiment!

I have toyed with the idea of growing watercress. It grows well in waterlogged areas and is an excellent filtration plant. It grows better in running water, even if the water doesn't run fast. The advantage of running water is that it will limit mosquitoes.
So if I go that route, I would try to have a recirculating pump, pulling water from the bottom of the duck pond and sent up high enough that ducks can't clamber up and eat them all. Something the size of a kiddies pool, although I don't care for plastic. I have a couple of rubber watering troughs that just might do the trick.
https://www.fleetfarm.com/detail/little-giant-100-gal-poly-oval-stock-tank/0000000042105?Ntt=006887509&gclid=CjwKCAjw7oeqBhBwEiwALyHLMxIMjMBP6c5qlK78E5wu5gZx29vNbE00lM_Vnr-I6JVDSUSkBdVVQhoCcuYQAvD_BwE
I like this one because it could be placed on some support or just a steep mound that would keep it out of duck reach, although the shape and height of it precludes a non flying duck managing to get in it. [The ducks I'm thinking of are not the flying type but all ducks/geese are fond of watercress!]
This one also has an outlet, so the plumbing would be easier. The recirculating pump just has to push the water high enough to clear the top.
So there would be 2 pools. One low for the ducks, with maybe some fish. One high for the watercress. Keeping the fish separated from the ducks may be a challenge. I'm also looking for a fish that could grow very fast since I would not be able to keep it over the winter. [I don't have high hopes for that, although it looks like the Nile Tilapia is my best bet..]
I am told that peppermint, cilantro, chives and wintergreen make good companions to water cress but I'm trying to visualize it. My wintergreen grows in my very dry woods, so how would it work with the watercress as a companion?  We happen to have wintergreen nearby in the woods and I was looking for a place to grow peppermint. [I make peppermint schnapps with it. It's a breeze!]
Hmmm. My cabin fever is starting early this winter!

In method number one of baby pool growing ( rocks and pots self watering)  what is it that is preventing the mosquitoes from laying eggs ?? that was not clear.
thanks. martine algier

Jen Fulkerson wrote:I'm completely insane at this point. I have got to stop watching YouTube!!  I watched several videos on the kiddy pool bottom watering system.  Lots of variations, but basically the same concept.  Now I'm going to try it.
First of all I have no intention in replacing my garden beds with this system. I think worms and soil life are very important.  I still plan to give it a try. I've had trouble with bell peppers getting blossom end rot. My soil isn't lacking in calcium, and have no problem with any other pepper that I've tried. I believe it's inconsistent watering. So maybe with this system bell peppers will grow for me.  What intrigues me about this method is the plants basically water themselves.
I'm going to try 2 methods. In one I'm going to fill the bottom of the pool with rock. Set plastic nursery pots on the rocks.  Fill the water to the top of the rocks. I may put some cotton cloth in the pot out of the drain hole and into the water because I don't know if the pots can wick up enough water just sitting on the rocks. I thought this way mosquitoes won't lay eggs in the water, and bees and other insects can use it to drink.
Method 2 use actual grow bags that sit in the pool with a couple of inches of water in the pool. I will put duckweed on the water to keep mosquitoes from using it as a breeding ground, with the bonus of having duckweed for the chickens and in the garden.
I figure besides Bell pepper, maybe watermelon, tomato, cantaloupe,

Have you tried this?  I'd like to hear suggestions, changes, any advice or info you have.
Thanks

So there is a proven method already out there with the pool and grow bag system, and another system. They are both self-watering, and I have been meaning to give it a go because I too have warering inconsistency problems.
The systems qere invented by Larry Hall, who is deceased, but from what I can tell, his wife (Terri) still runs the site and youtube videos, etc. All the information is there in great detail.
Just look up Larry Hall grow bag system and Larry Hall rain gutter grow system.
Loads of information and how to's.
The rain gutter grow system is by far the prettiest and neatest system out of the two, but the grow bag in the pool system is the easiest to set up.
Go have a good read 😉

This year I tried a similar kiddie pool project. I found really big grow bags that fit right inside the pool.(read: I got really lucky) The bag took so much soil to fill that I only ended up doing one bag and not using the other bag that came in the set. I used the setup to grow carrots this year. I think it went well. It definitely was a strange weather year and we had a really dry spring and a too wet summer. Just about opposite of normal. The carrots germinated well and I let them grow close together. I pulled carrots from the bag all summer when needed (baby carrot sized) There was almost no effort on my part and plenty of carrots on demand. Better thinning would have given me more yield. Overall I’d say it was successful. The oversized bag had enough soil out of the pool for the top to dry out some, but the bottom was always wet. Problem now is I can’t move it, so I’m going to have to leave the whole setup and hope the freezes of winter don’t bust the pool. I’m hopeful the soil wicking the water up won’t expand it to breaking point. (Fingers optimistically crossed!) I’m not the greatest at taking pictures so I’ll attach what I have.

I also had a large piece of durable plastic that our shipped mattress came wrapped in. My husband made me a simple frame out of scrap 2x4 pallet pieces. I leveled the ground out, placed the frame down and lined it with the plastic. I then put all of my potato bags in it. This setup worked really well, especially with the dry spring. I’ve been using feed bags for potatoes for a couple of years and them drying out quickly is always an issue. Too much rain was the problem this year so I removed the corner of the plastic so it wouldn’t hold the water in. I will definitely use the system again, very set and forget. I did use some fencing to keep deer and my free ranging chickens out.

Martine Algier wrote:In method number one of baby pool growing ( rocks and pots self watering)  what is it that is preventing the mosquitoes from laying eggs ?? that was not clear.
thanks. martine algier

There are a couple of things that can prevent mosquitos from laying eggs: moving water, bags of rye grass and chemicals. Moving water also makes fish life better and is [my humble opinion] more ecologically sound. I used to buy bags of rye grass sewn in burlap from Fleet Farm, and it worked really well even in standing water, such as my rain barrels, which I use to water veggies.
I am surprised [and disappointed] that they seem to have discontinued the practice but I suspect more money can be made selling these donuts that disintegrate very quickly and never last 3 months. I'm trying to grow a bit of rye next year, just for that purpose.
Landscaping to invite purple martins and frogs will help along but that gets pricey: You must have mosquitos for them to eat, so...

Two thoughts:

First off, I had tried a similar experiment one time, where I ran a capped-off length of raingutter and then used wicks up into the grow bags.  The nice thing is the bags completely cover the water surface, so no mosquitos.

Second, for the kiddie pool, a lot of people are growing their own rice
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkWxJeCr510
I guess the project goes all the way back to Bill Mollison who said you can grow enough rice to feed one person in that much space.  I want to try that someday too!

K Eilander wrote:

Second, for the kiddie pool, a lot of people are growing their own rice
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkWxJeCr510
I guess the project goes all the way back to Bill Mollison who said you can grow enough rice to feed one person in that much space.  I want to try that someday too!

So cool!!! I think that next year I’ll be experimenting with growing rice in the extra kiddy pool I have!! Thanks K!

Martine I worried about mosquitos a lot actually. Late summer they were about as bad as I ever remember. I worried it was my pools. Everyone I talked to was expecting the same problem all over the city.  
To try to prevent a problem I tried to keep the rock pool so the water barley covered the rocks, so not deep enough for mosquitoes. The other pool the water surface was covered with duckweed. From what I read this is supposed to keep mosquito from using it.  When things were very bad I put mosquito dunks in both pools. They are organic and supposed to be ok. It didn't really matter, because I only got a couple bell peppers and nothing else.
Honestly I don't know if it made our mosquito problem worse or not.
One more reason not to continue this type of garden.  

I understand grow bags where one does not have access to dirt (and I do mean dirt, not soil), for example a renter surrounded by only concrete. Otherwise it seems like one would have recurring expenses and more labor, in the long run. I understand and also suffer from watering irregularity: I go away from the farm for stretches longer than the annuals like in July and August.  For less than the kiddie pool and grow bags, however, one can buy automated drip irrigation gear and have a set-up that lasts a decade or better when well installed.  Am I missing something?

When I lived in an apartment in Berkeley, CA I worked a LOT of hours but wanted a tomato plant. I had access to a yard but it was pure clay. I dug a "pot" into the ground, HEAVILY amended the clay that I put in around the tomato start and only needed to water 1x per week (of course that was for a tomato, which loves the desert).     Digging the hole was hard, but it was one and done ...

As for mosquitos, they can breed in 1/4 inch of water: a heavy heel print can hold enough water to make a mosquito 'pond'. An egg can become a flying adult in as little as 5 days, or can 'hibernate' for some months if weather requires.

Larry Hall,   the inventor the the Rain Gutter grow system and I were good friends.      

Larry created a huge group on Facebook that supported the Rain Gutter grow system, and the kiddie pool system.

I worked to create documents with others that helped explain the system and get others to innovate on it.

I switched from kiddie pools to EPDM pond liner for my pools, and I used gravel in the pool around the bags...

Attached are some documents I believe you will find of great benefit.      

Don't forget if you have facebook  the Rain Gutter Grow system page is still active.   42,000  memebers..

https://www.facebook.com/groups/144745362329424/

I had potatoes in four grow bags in a kiddie pool this year.
I just dumped the bags on top of my raised beds to find all of those great potatoes.
WHAT A FLOP! I found 4-5 potatoes about the size half-way between a standard marble and a large marble.
And ONE and ONE ONLY potato that was about 2 1/2" in length and not too big aroiund!

A REAL BUMMER OF A DAY!!!

So sorry Jesse. It's always a bummer when things like that happen. I have never been very successful with potatoes.  They never get very big, and I don't get a lot.
There are a few veggies I don't grow because they aren't worth the space they take. Potatoes, and corn are two.  Potatoes don't do well, and are pretty cheap to buy.  Corn takes up a lot of space, again it's pretty cheap to buy, and I used to have a lot of pest problems with it. Maybe I wouldn't now, but who knows. My daughter was talking about wanting to grow popcorn, so maybe we will try some next year for the fun of it.

Jen Fulkerson wrote:S. My daughter was talking about wanting to grow popcorn, so maybe we will try some next year for the fun of it.

HI JEN: I tried popcorn this year also and planted two different times with neither one of those being successful. But, on this one I will keep trying. There is nothing like popcorn just shelled off the cob for popping! I'll try and get my popcorn seeded as early as the farmers around here start planting corn and see if that works better.

Tell your daughter good luck on hers and to leave the popcorn on the cob until she needs to use some for popping.