Smart Meter. My Power Company Will Have Me Arrested If I Take It Off.

Solar is really not an option for us because we plan to move within a couple years. Once this place is paid off, we want to walk with as much as we can. Otherwise I would be all over the solar energy.

So I came up with an idea that I thought I would ask for some input on. I had wanted to just wrap the meter with foil but I bet they would say its "Tampering with the meter" and might turn us off, and or have me arrested. What about planting a satellite dish in front of the meter? I could concrete a pole in for cheap. All I would need to buy is a bag of concrete. Would this work? Like to bounce the radiation this thing is putting out off the dish, and in another direction? It most certainly would not be considered tampering with the meter if I am not even touching it.

In the mean time I have shut off all breakers to the entire house except for the fridge and my bedroom. Going to also stop using the washer and dryer, as well as the dish washer. Thats really, just about as far as I can take this protest without going to jail and still keeping my home on the "up and up" for resale. I know solar might bring up the value if done correctly. But we just cant afford to do that.

Which protest are you referring to?

Tell you what will really work...stop paying them.

jonathan white wrote:Which protest are you referring to?

Tell you what will really work...stop paying them.

I agree with that statement 100%. Just not for my situation. Or maybe I just need to educate myself on the subject. Last time I put in a bunch of reserch on DIY it led me to a forum full of stuck up people telling me it couldn't be done by myself. Saying that I needed to pony up for someone to sell me marked up product and have them install it Etc Etc. So I let myself get beat. I have capable hands. I want to do it as cheap as I can and on my own.

Can I really run my home on a 1 - 2.5k budget? I cant afford to make my point to the power company with money.

It is hard to wean yourself from the system, whether mortgage debt or .gov subsidies or infrastructure.

Radical conservation as you are doing is probably your best plan. Save every penny you can now, plus the average utility usage will show low when you do go to sell. Do your research, maybe get a little system that would be easy to move--one that could run a few lights and charge phones and computers.

I am an electrical engineer, I understand the radio waves and am NOT concerned about them--or more accurately they are only one of a thousand other papercuts you get during your day in modern technology.

My concern is the big brother control factor. I have a semi-smart meter. I love the fact the power company doesn't come snooping around every month to read the meter. But the potential is mighty scary.

Thanks, I agree. A small system that I can take down and re-sell or take with me if the new owner does not want it. For now I have turned off the breakers to over half of the property. We also sold our dishwasher today and have been washing by hand. Its fun. Me and the wife do it together and while the liquor cabinet is right in front of us, we take a few shots while we wash and dry. We also hung a clothes line, and plan on washing in the sink. Only the weather is not allowing us to keep up: (. I left a full line up the other day and it rained on them lol.

I had a conversation with the CEO of the power company today. He said that if I wanted my meter back I could pay $50 to have it put back in. But I could not buy my own. Thats much better than the other person saying they will have us arrested. I guess the old one was a semi smart meter. They could read the usage but had to come out to shut us off. They put the smart meter on and the CEO says its like the semi smart meter. It looks exactly like the "Smart meter" everyone is warring us about online. I also bought a cold war era radiation detector, and it was bouncing around like I had a reactor in the living room last night. My daughter was acting like she was possessed. She is only 3 so she was not playing a joke on us. Im not kidding. I was a split second away from straight up panic due to the way she was acting. It was like she was ready to convulse. Saying her hand and feet hurt. Blank stare like she was in the clouds.

At least tonight the detector is zeroed out. I hope if they where doing something with that meter that they will stop. I don't know a lot about this stuff but I am a fight for my rights kinda guy. Especially when it comes to my family's safety.

What do you know about the "Smart meters"? I know one source I was getting info from said that they where also dubbed as cellular phone towers. But I get zero cellular service at my house and since the install its still the same. No cellular service here.

A small portable solar system is a great idea. I hope you can sort it for cheap!
Putting a cover over your washing line (even just a tarp), or put it undercover will help with the clothes drying in the wet weather. I'm keen on putting a clothes rack in the kitchen way up high on a rope and pulley system.

Some utility companies will pay for power from solar panels. Between money saved, possibly earned and the additional selling point a good system might not "cost" you that much.

I am no solar expert. So when I left the grid (screw the criminal power overlords) I purchased a small set up (just add battery) that powers my laptop, cell phone and rechargeable batteries. I am a single man who has land in the middle of nowhere though. So the cold water bathes, grilled meals and candle light after hours is no big deal for me. Humans have been around a lot longer than power companies. You can live without them.

Ive read about a lady who pulled a gun on the smart meter maids who refused her orders. She is awesome in my book.

Good info folks. I guess if / when I get my taxes back I am going to look for a small laptop as well. My desktop is due to be upgraded anyways. Will do that and get me an affordable system. Its to back the car battery I have sitting here would not work. Guess I could try to sell it.
On the flip side. I wish I could go back to candles. I dont even know if I can talk my wife into going with no A/C though. Wish me luck on that one.

Dropping in for an update. I got a radiation detector. Radiation was off the charts according to the meter. So the next day I called and talked to the CEO of the power company and told him about it. I mentioned a recording I had taken and the conversation went pretty well after that. He offered to change my meter back out but I cant afford to at the moment. The good part is that after that the meter has been zeroed out every time I check it. So good news on that. I am just glad I got that meter.

Still nothing to update about solar wise since our taxes are still not here. Going on the 11th week of waiting. Wonder if I can charge them a penalty or interest. We did sell the dishwasher though. $900 unit sold for $50. That sort of hurt, but its been fun hand washing. Me and the wife do the dishes together now, and some nights we take shots as we work. Its also nice in the fact that we never run out of dishes now. Anyways, that's all I have to report for now. Thanks again for all the help.

I am new to the forums, but have been weaning myself off grid utilities over the past year to save money. The thing I've discovered... it does not have to be an all-or-nothing effort. Start slow and be systematic in your approach. I started by analyzing all the things in the house I use (or don't) that consume utilities and my hard won money. Electricity and water are difficult to do without: doing dishes by hand and line drying clothes as you are doing now helps some (hanging a small load in the bathroom over the tub works great when it's raining out). I've also gotten rid of my television and large desktop computer in favor of a 17" laptop. This month, I bought several solar lights to use on my front porch instead of the regular light. I shut the door to all the rooms that I do not use, which means I only heat and cool a small portion of the house. It's amazing how much my electric and gas bill dropped after doing this! Next step... I bought a small 20W solar panel, power controller, deep cell battery and 400W inverter to build a portable power pack for my laptop, a fan, and some lights to use when camping. When I've discovered the limits of that, I'll upscale or downsize appropriately to power an RV system.

The point is to be systematic in your approach and discover what you can live without and what must be kept for personal sanity. I always thought I'd go crazy without television; but the online services like Netflix allows me to watch stuff whenever I need an entertainment fix, and the rest of the time is spent actually doing something instead of sitting in front of the tv. The laptop can be powered by solar with the appropriate inverter. Lights can all be solar powered as well - especially if you use high intensity LED lights. LEDs come in a variety of colors now that can emulate the traditional "warm" light colors, so reading is easy. Solar can be added to over time, so you don't have to invest huge amounts of money on a whole-house system right away. Start with a decent sized panel and the appropriate deep cell batteries, then plug stuff into it. When you need more power and have the money to invest, buy another panel and batteries. And so on...

I wish you luck in your effort. It's not a quick fix, but it is totally doable.

Thanks for your encouraging words Kim. 2 days ago we had them turn off the light on the pole as well. Its really dark around here at night, and we loved having the light, but they went up from $7 a month to over $10. I think you hit the nail on the head. Slow and steady wins the race. If we got rid of the washer and dryer we would have lots of room for solar. My goal would be to hook into breaker box. This way we could use electricity in the home without having to run more wire than needed, and buy lights to hang and such. If I go by the breakers ratings then I know what I need to take each one out of the box. That's going to be challenging for me because I have never seen anyone do it that way. Not even sure it could be done but it seems feasible. If we ever get our money I will be sure to dig in and look for more info on that.

I also had Netflix, its a shame they went up so high.

I took a step today and bought a laptop, and I am ready to take the next step. Still have a lot of research to do. Can someone please tell me where is the cheapest place to shop for solar power products? Amazon seems like a decent place to look but I want to make sure I can get the best bang for the buck.

Why don't you have Solar City do a residential install, that is easy to sell , along with the house?

They work with Home Depot. Another company out of Cal, by an apple guy, does the same thing. You pay a lease on the panels, which is typically less than a standard bill , without A/C.


There is no radiation coming off your meter, that could be found with a CivDefense meter. Really. Any transmissions off the smart meter are Radio Frequency.
If it is going off, then you have radon, contaminated flooring, or a gas leak.

Dangers of smart meters are basically privacy and security.


there are some stat sheets here, to replace the capacitors in these fabulous old instruments

http://www.civildefensemuseum.com/cdmuseum2/radkits/cdv715.html

Morgan Morrigan wrote:Why don't you have Solar City do a residential install, that is easy to sell , along with the house?

They work with Home Depot. Another company out of Cal, by an apple guy, does the same thing. You pay a lease on the panels, which is typically less than a standard bill , without A/C.


There is no radiation coming off your meter, that could be found with a CivDefense meter. Really. Any transmissions off the smart meter are Radio Frequency.
If it is going off, then you have radon, contaminated flooring, or a gas leak.

Dangers of smart meters are basically privacy and security.


there are some stat sheets here, to replace the capacitors in these fabulous old instruments

http://www.civildefensemuseum.com/cdmuseum2/radkits/cdv715.html

I dont have any gas hooked up to the home and if it was the flooring then it would do it all the time? Not sure what it could have been but if my daughter starts acting strange for no reason and telling me her hands hurt. Then turning the meter on and getting off the chart readings are concerning to say the least. But like I was saying. It has not happened since I talked to the power company's ceo. So I would guess it was just a fluke but my daughter has never acted like that. For them to go hand in hand in the same night, I would be a moron not to be worried. Then before I bought the meter, getting sick all over the house 8 times in one night? She was not sick, no cold, no nothing. Just puking all over the place. At that time the meter was only 2 weeks old. Oh and on the meter. I have video footage of my child's reaction, and the meter pegged out at the same time. Also have a follow up to show that it was zeroed out otherwise. The video is not public though. I did send it in an email to someone I know in my states tea party. But as far as I am concerned its not an issue if the meter is on zero. I hope it stays that way. Any other ideas of what could peg the meter are welcome. I would like to get to the bottom of it and put a lid on it. I will take a look at the link you provided. Thanks.

You CAN blame the power companies for all sorts of stuff but Radon gas is not one of them
See here
http://m.cancer.gov/topics/factsheets/radon

David

Installing solar is best when you are selling your house, as long as you get whatever permits you need. It will raise the value of your house dollar for dollar and you basically can pocket the subsidies. Just install an grid tie in with optional cutoff.

I emailed my congressmen or in my case congresswomen. She basically said there wasn't much she could do for me. I also called and emailed the power company asking for a written conformation that smart meters were not harmful to my children health. The meter was three feet from where they sleep. I didn't get a letter from Southern California Edison, instead they put me on a opt out list. About two months later I was able to opt out of the smart meter program at the cost of five dollars a month. They charge extra to read your meter on foot.

We pulled the utility meter and went solar last fall, just to avoid having a smart meter installed. Here's an article about it:

http://www.southdeltaleader.com/news/191125751.html

The article is ok but we talked for three hours and obviously he couldn't, or wouldn't touch on the more sensitive topics of these units. Too bad, I really gave him some juicy conspiracy stuff to run with too!

There's also a discussion here:

http://www.villagevancouver.ca/forum/topics/off-grid-solar

Ive heard some great conspiracies lately but power companies installing smart meters to poison their customers with controllable radioactive devices? Please explain!

As Morgan and David point out, Radon is the most likely cause which can be tricky to get repeatable measurements. Air movement in an old home is variable and unpredictable. Some granite countertops can also trigger alarms and tests.

Could the anti-smart meter people please explain why they would go to such extreme lengths to avoid them?

For Privacy and Security, unless you are doing something illegal with your grid supplied power, then it seems that eliminating meter readers would increase privacy and security and even liability of people being hurt on the property. Even for those doing illegal things, I would think this situation would be preferable.

Radio Frequency seems a better argument but the lack of science showing health effects and ability to design around it seems to make a weak argument to me.

When you invest in a renewable energy system and dis-connect from an existing electrical grid infrastructure you are denying your neighbors and community the benefits of your surplus. With PV, most power is generated when the power company needs it the most (and well designed and built homes need it the least). This lack of Peak-demand power supply drives them to build more power plants and waste more energy as most consumers are located a far distance from the power plant. Locally produced PV that would be wasted in off-grid scenarios, reduces the neighboring homes environmental costs in extremely resource efficient ways in grid tied systems.

Using grid tied PV also dramatically reduces the upfront, long-term, maintenance and environmental costs of the system.

Brian Knight wrote:

When you invest in a renewable energy system and dis-connect from an existing electrical grid infrastructure you are denying your neighbors and community the benefits of your surplus. With PV, most power is generated when the power company needs it the most (and well designed and built homes need it the least). This lack of Peak-demand power supply drives them to build more power plants and waste more energy as most consumers are located a far distance from the power plant. Locally produced PV that would be wasted in off-grid scenarios, reduces the neighboring homes environmental costs in extremely resource efficient ways in grid tied systems.

Using grid tied PV also dramatically reduces the upfront, long-term, maintenance and environmental costs of the system.

Absoluely! I'm in the process of getting attached to the grid and installing the biggest permitted PV system for those very reasons. They do insist that we install a smart meter, but it measures the electricity I produce, compares it with what I use, and will pay me the difference. There is an annual cap on how much electricity they will buy off me, but if I'm careful with what I use I can get monthly income from them, plus all the convenience of electricity 'on tap', plus all my surplus goes straight into the community.

I really can't see who loses with this, yet I've had friends really lose their tempers with me for wanting to go on grid and joining 'the system'. Heck, I'd rather be a part of the solution than just ignore the problem.

Well for starters I sometimes think that the argument "if you have nothing to hide" should only be uttered by people without curtains, fences, or door locks, but ultimately privacy is a personal issue and on that point we just didn't want to participate on the level that smart meters can and will be implemented. Take for instance, your fridge. It has a chip that passes the info of how often and when you open the doors while new units will (or perhaps already do at this point) have product readers giving detailed info of what and how much you have and when you consume it. That info will be sold to competing companies so they can target you with ads for their products or given to your health insurance providers so they can approve of your diet with regards to your health benefits. It's just creepy. It's like having a peeping tom staring at you, literally, all the time. lol It also smacks of being watched over like an errant child. More and more our lives are being controlled by a bureaucracy of "experts" and "authorities" that have a parental complex.

As for being grid-tied, for me it's like feeding the beast that's killing us all. The power you'd produce isn't going to go back into your community, it's going to be sold off for profit and used for more of the same infrastructure that's grinding the world up into plastic bits, or worse things like the military industrial complex while algorithms will constantly make the power you want to use more expensive and limited. The whole world is being tied together so that power from one hemisphere can be transferred to another and we'd be on the bottom of that list over industry. Not only is there a move for a one world government but a one world power grid and I'm not comfortable with being a part of either. Until such times that there are no more armies chugging across the oceans doing manoeuvres and occupying countries, and until there are no more cars being produced, oceans with dead zones, rockets blasting through our atmosphere, or forests being flattened, then I just want to limit my participation in what this civilization does as much as possible. As far as I'm concerned any benefits of grid-tied is just green washing the truth and a sinister form of manipulation and control.

Now if my neighbours wanted to join forces and create a network of houses sharing power that would be ideal, but not likely here. Too bad since my generator can charge up a couple of houses at once when the batteries can't get enough from the PV system.

There are personal and environmental health issues that concern us as well with smart meters and their infrastructure, and again, we just didn't want to participate or contribute to those as well.

There was a post over at Natural Building Blog the other day about a film on smart meters.

Watched the video link and was disappointed with the lack of information. I did learn that there is a movement of people who are opposing smart meters and that there are two other concerns I didnt mention; increased risk of fire and improper billing. The video's alarmist tone, dramatic music and stock footage of protests were a little ridiculous and hard for me to take seriously.

Increased risk of fire is probably the biggest concern to me if its true. Would love to see some evidence on this. Improper billing should be less of an issue and I recommend people use home energy monitors to track their own energy use, uh oh, most of them use wireless devices too..

As for privacy, I think that not having a person (meter reader) come onto the property to check the meter increases privacy and reduces liability of the homeowner (like being bit by a dog).
It seems that people dont like companies tracking their energy use and habits. Would like to hear why this is such a concern. I feel reducing dirty energy use should be a major priority and having measurements are crucial for meaningful reductions.

As for health concerns, perhaps the jury is still out on the "radiation" effects. People that are familiar with the issue should know that skeptics point to cell phones and computers as a MUCH greater risk. I tend to agree but am surprised by the amount of people out there that think this is such a serious issue. I found contradicting information on my limited internet research on the types and quantities of radiation from smart meters. I think that the vast majority of scientists and health experts that are familiar with the issue side in the "not a big deal" camp.

I would bet a lot of money that burning incense or candles is a much greater health risk than the EMF radiation of smart meters. I think that smart meters have the ability to dramatically reduce the dirty energy needed to bring us our energy which reduces a vast amount of carbon dioxide, heavy metals and toxins released from burning fossil fuels.

The beast thats killing us all is us. We are responsible for the vast amount of pollution created by burning fossil fuels. The power companies are supplying our needs, wants and waste. Industry comes second to homes and buildings in terms of fossil fuel pollution.

There are serious environmental costs by choosing to ignore the grid in favor or battery banks and fossil fuel generators. The only way a grid-tied PV array would supply power to an industry is if the home was located right next to said industry. Homes and neighborhoods are usually closer together which is where most residential PV produced power ends up. Generally homes and neighborhoods are located a good distance from industry and power plants. This is one of the main reasons grid tied renewables are so helpful at reducing the community's environmental costs. It reduces the amount of energy lost in transport and conversion and its happening during peak demand hours which reduces the power plants needs to add (or update) more infrastructure.

Dirty energy? Do you mean ones power factor? Decidedly that's a big issue for the gird but it comes from switching to more digital equipment in the home and industry. If measuring that on a house to house basis is necessary then using a smart meter is overkill. No one needs to know when I use my Black and Decker toaster oven to figure out a power factor when a simple black box between the supply and the house will do.

As for privacy, I never cared for someone coming onto my property to read the meter, but at least he doesn't watch me all day, knowing when I'm home and when I'm not and he certainly doesn't have the means to tell what video I'm watching at night. And wifi smart meters can be hacked, rather easily it would seem. It's just Orwellian. And I doubt industry, the military, and everything else outside of our homes uses less power than we do combined.

Where I live in the pacific northwest we get most of our power from hydro electric dams or from nuclear, depending on what time of day. Hydro-electric is considered "clean" energy AFTER the land and rivers have been taken out of the commons, the valleys flooded, and huge concrete dams built using god knows how much diesel fuel and metal before a single watt gets delivered. Amortize that over decades and you can convince yourself that it's the lesser of evils. I don't. And you're right Brian, we are killing ourselves but being grid-tied doesn't alleviate that in any meaningful way IMO. It's a drop in the green wash bucket and a distraction. It's a bait and switch. It's no different than people shunning aerosol cans to protect the ozone when governments are blasting rockets into space on a daily basis. Sure I'd rather see solar panels on every house and I'd rather see them grid-tied than no solar system at all but we're allowing the onus to fall on us when it should land on bigger shoulders to be really effective.

I'm planting out a food forest and shopping at local farmers markets to be less reliant on the infrastructure. I'm collecting rainwater to be less reliant on the municipal water supply. I'm using a solar oven on sunny days to reduce my gas consumption. I'm trying to incorporate permaculture principles to my life and being dependant and using so much electricity from a utility company just seems to fly in the face of all that. I'm much more conscious of my actions now with regards to energy consumption, and anytime you can lift the fog of unconsciousness then that's a good thing.

I agree with some of your points Paul and commend you for reducing your impact. I think we all could do better, especially me.

It seems the biggest concern that Anti-smart meter folks have is the ability for authorities to "see" into certain aspects of our lives. I think this concern is overblown. If one is the type to never use banks, cell phones or private computers then by all means dont spoil all that sacrifice with a smart meter.

Power companies have a difficult job. Our appetite for energy grows while infrastructure is growing older and the ill effects of dirty energy use piles up. I feel that nuclear is a very dirty and risky energy source and while big scale hydroelectric may be cleaner than other sources it certainly has negative environmental and social costs as you point out. The public and utilities that supply us need to do everything possible to conserve and use power more intelligently. Smart meters do that. They are being used to detail regional demand which is critical as demand grows and we need to reduce the impact of our energy production.

If everyone is using their toasters around the same time, this is very important information. Space conditioning and water heating are obviously the more important variables here but knowing patterns of use will help prevent blackouts and reveal the areas most in need of infrastructure update. You say switching to digital equipment is important or having a black box between house and supply will do but that's exactly what a smart meter is.

As for a grid-tied net zero house being a drop in the bucket you may be right if its only one house or neighborhood but what if building codes required all houses to be built that way? Homes would be capable of charging our electric transportation and could be supplying clean power to industry instead of fossil fuels. I think this could be a reality someday and smart meters will play an important part in the smart delivery and transport of all that clean power. In the meantime, it might be a small part but the person who invests in PV that is grid tied is doing more for their community and environment than those turning their back on the grid.

I just read that there are already around 37 million smart meters already installed. The numbers of other problems already discussed seems to be a drop in the bucket for this transfer to a smarter infrastructure. It certainly doesnt hurt to keep tabs on EMF problems, fires or improper billing.

Travis Nibler wrote:I know solar might bring up the value if done correctly. But we just cant afford to do that.

Where are you? Some areas have incentives good enough to make up a lot of the price.