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paul wheaton
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I mentioned in another thread the idea that some people will come to the land and be a renter. And this falls into two categories: they rent a few acres and do an independent-ish thing; or they rent a room and bask in the glow of our community, and probably spend most of their time on their own projects. This might some day evolve to renting a wofati or something.

But I do think there are some roles that will be paid roles. A lot of work and responsibility leaning heavily on a skill or a collection of skills.

Jocelyn sat me down and made the two of us brainstorm a list. I suspect that the moment that she sees this, she will post that list.

While the list might be indicative, I suspect that the list will never be filled exactly. Instead, I suspect that we will end up with different people filling different roles and the same sort of stuff gets done. Or maybe we will go a couple of years without somebody filling an important role and the rest of us sorta fill in as best as we can.

I respect that all of these would be for freakishly crappy pay. And for all of them, I thought that if we got things rolling well enough on the first year, that the second year would pay a bit more. And each year would be a significant bump.

In the first year, my rough plan was "land manager" for $1500 per month (but the person I had in mind had a small mountain of tools, trucks, skills, etc. - plus having worked with him before, he covered all the fuel and costs of small parts out of his own pocket. So I was thinking $500 per month would probably come back to the farm. But that guy has moved on to other things). I thought this person would pretty much manage everything on the land. So Adrien would be the "on-line manager" and this other person would be the "land manager". The land manager would probably filter people coming onto the land, maintain the priority list, arrange for trac hoe rental, direct people to tasks, and manage several of the other roles on the land. This person is the most likely to be the first resident of a wofati.

I remember one of the positions was called something like "people nurture manager" or something like that. I once lived in a community where a woman totally dominated the kitchen. And insisted on cooking far more than her share of the meals. And she was an excellent cook. Her english wasn't too great, but if things looked messy outside, she would get somebody to go tidy. And if somebody was not carrying their weight, she would get them to put in more work. There is a weird thing where if somebody is a really good cook, and they are clearly doing far more than their share, and they ask you to do something - it is really hard to say no. So, this teeny tiny woman has a powerful positive influence over the whole house. I'm not sure how to label this role (which is why the label is terrible). And maybe there will never be another person like this woman. But I like the idea of imagining her in this community and picking out three people to tell them they need to go out to that patch in the woods and bring back nettle, dandelion root and chickweed. And dinner is always on the table at the same time every night. I like to think that there will be one or two people that will be helping her a lot. And, yes, I'm totally open to this role being filled by a guy - I just think of this one particular woman. I think that for the first year, this role will pay $500 to $1000 per month.

For the most part, I think there will be roles on the land best described as "minions". We are not ready to do anything like wwofers (work in exchange for room and board). I remember there was something about interns or organic volunteers where the norm was tent+food+$30 per week. I kinda think the minion package would be similar.

I think that there will be an animal husbandry person that will focus a lot on fencing, LGDs, paddock shift, portable shelters. Plus, making sure that all animals get first rate care. $500 to $800 per month.

I hope there will be a person that will have most of their time devoted to wofati stuff. I think this person will also have a focus on poop and urine management, greywater, alternative energy, etc. $500 to $1500 per month.

Polyculture person. Ordering, collecting seeds; making seed balls; planting seeds; ponds, hugelkultur and berms; plant identification; wild food harvest; seed saving ... $500 to $800 per month.

I think everybody starts off for the first two weeks unpaid. We just gotta find out if this will work long term. Plus, for the first year, funds will be mighty tight. So I suspect that several roles will not be filled - or maybe some people will have moderate skills and will keep the seat warm for $300 per month.

I hope that we can come up with housing for everybody by the time the snow flies. And for the first year, I will buy food.

Jocelyn, what did I forget?

 
R Scott
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OK, you just described grandpa and grandma in an "old-fashioned" multi-generational family. The concept has worked for thousands of years and we only screwed it up recently, so I think you are on to something.
 
Jocelyn Campbell
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R Scott wrote:OK, you just described grandpa and grandma in an "old-fashioned" multi-generational family. The concept has worked for thousands of years and we only screwed it up recently, so I think you are on to something.


Darn it, R Scott - you might be aging Paul and myself before our time!

 
Jocelyn Campbell
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paul wheaton wrote:
While the list might be indicative, I suspect that the list will never be filled exactly. Instead, I suspect that we will end up with different people filling different roles and the same sort of stuff gets done. Or maybe we will go a couple of years without somebody filling an important role and the rest of us sorta fill in as best as we can.

I respect that all of these would be for freakishly crappy pay. And for all of them, I thought that if we got things rolling well enough on the first year, that the second year would pay a bit more. And each year would be a significant bump.


I'll insert the positions we brainstormed below.

As Paul described, there could be a variety of combinations of work/trade, partial jobs, job combining, and other creative solutions in any or all of these arrangements. And names are just that...names.

paul wheaton wrote:
In the first year, my rough plan was "land manager"...[read above for more details and ideas]

  • land manager

  • (online empire and online manager stuff, such as what Adrien does, we did not discuss)

    paul wheaton wrote:
    I remember one of the positions was called something like "people nurture manager" or something like that.

  • people space nurturer


  • paul wheaton wrote:
    For the most part, I think there will be roles on the land best described as "minions".

  • minion army
  • minion wrangler


  • paul wheaton wrote:
    I think that there will be an animal husbandry person...

  • animal husbandry poobah


  • paul wheaton wrote:
    I hope there will be a person that will have most of their time devoted to wofati stuff...

  • master timber frame craftsman


  • paul wheaton wrote:
    Polyculture person. Ordering, collecting seeds; making seed balls...

  • polyculture poobah


  • Others we brainstormed:
  • alternative energy poobah
  • wild edibles poobah
  • pollinator poobah
  • cook, kitchen or food preservation poobah (if not part of people space nurturer)
  • videographer


  • paul wheaton wrote:
    I think everybody starts off for the first two weeks unpaid. We just gotta find out if this will work long term. Plus, for the first year, funds will be mighty tight. So I suspect that several roles will not be filled - or maybe some people will have moderate skills and will keep the seat warm for $300 per month.


    Paul is expressing how he'd like it to work out, and I want to repeat that we don't know yet how much will be possible to pay. Please understand: the land and the base camp property have not closed yet. Finances are still being worked out. We do not have an initial budget yet. We do not know what positions will be paid at first, we do not know how many volunteers we will need to feed, how much renting equipment will cost, etc.
     
    John Polk
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    How about "House mom", or "Den Mother" for the 'chief cook & bottle washer'?

     
    Jocelyn Campbell
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    John Polk wrote:How about "House mom", or "Den Mother" for the 'chief cook & bottle washer'?


    Paul likes the term "poobah" - it meets his humor needs.

    So, to combine that with your suggestions, John: "house (or den or cave) poobah," "cook & bottle washer poobah." Meh. Not as fun as I thought they'd be.

    The names are fun, and coming up with the different roles is a great brainstorming process, though really, it largely depends on who shows up and what they want to do. Some roles might be filled early, and then we might not have room for others who only want to do that role.
     
    kadence blevins
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    Jocelyn Campbell wrote:
    paul wheaton wrote:
    I think that there will be an animal husbandry person...

  • animal husbandry poobah




  • may i nominate myself? lol. at least to warm the seat. i know alot about alot of animals. and since i'd be bringing a goodly bit of critters it kinda makes sense.

    Jocelyn Campbell wrote:
  • cook, kitchen or food preservation poobah (if not part of people space nurturer)
  • videographer



  • may i also nominate myself to warm the seat for cook/kitchen?

    and what is videographer? like walk around and get on tape everyone working and things like that? if so it sounds pretty fun! haha.

    Jocelyn Campbell wrote:
    paul wheaton wrote:
    I think everybody starts off for the first two weeks unpaid. We just gotta find out if this will work long term. Plus, for the first year, funds will be mighty tight. So I suspect that several roles will not be filled - or maybe some people will have moderate skills and will keep the seat warm for $300 per month.


    Paul is expressing how he'd like it to work out, and I want to repeat that we don't know yet how much will be possible to pay. Please understand: the land and the base camp property have not closed yet. Finances are still being worked out. We do not have an initial budget yet. We do not know what positions will be paid at first, we do not know how many volunteers we will need to feed, how much renting equipment will cost, etc.


    makes sense to me.


    me and fiance would like to raise the question of if people will be able to hunt on the land? in season of course. but squirrel is year round basically everywhere and it would lessen the food burden some. and we love us some venison (:
     
    paul wheaton
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    Not only is hunting allowed, but I sure hope a fair bit of it happens.
     
    Chia Olin
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    paul wheaton wrote:Not only is hunting allowed, but I sure hope a fair bit of it happens.

    Perhaps you can charge people a fee to come hunt in near future... some people would pay a bit to do a hunt on some nice land...

     
    kadence blevins
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    Chia Olin wrote:
    paul wheaton wrote:Not only is hunting allowed, but I sure hope a fair bit of it happens.

    Perhaps you can charge people a fee to come hunt in near future... some people would pay a bit to do a hunt on some nice land...



    not trying to drag the post off topic (darn it i guess i already did, huh /: ).. but as someone who has dealt with that i highly suggest *not* doing that.
    on one hand yes people would pay good to come hunt somewhere with plenty of deer.... but people also like to tramp all over the place and cross places they shouldnt and be there when they said they werent going to be and shooting livestock "on accident" (and stories of just as "accidently" takin home the shot animal!)...

    so..... ya, i would suggest against that.
     
    Chris Kott
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    This position might not exist until a bit down the road, but would you have one person spearheading market projects? As in, taking harvestable surplus of any kind, probably animal fibre and easy fibre and natural dye crops that have beneficial properties for your food plant guilds, and either organizing its transition from either plant/animal to sellable good, or to artisans on TL/BC to make into a higher-value product. Sub-positions specific to larger operations might be designated from there. A Market Poobah, if you will?

    -CK
     
    Samantha Lewis
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    Wow This all sounds awesome. We would apply to come live and work if we were not so entrenched in our lives here. I am excited to see how this unfolds.
     
    John Wheeler
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    Not sure if this would rise to the level of a paid position, but I were there, I'd definitely want someone who has extensive herbalist/healer/first aid knowledge/skills. Perhaps that could be part of the people nurturer's job? Just something to think about...
     
    paul wheaton
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    Jocelyn Campbell wrote:
    Paul likes the term "poobah" - it meets his humor needs.


    I think "house commander" or "kitchen commander" sounds good too.

     
    Jay Grace
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    Hi Paul & Jocelyn

    Just an idea

    How about a work on TL in exchange for an acre or two of your own.

    labor on the land say at the cheap rate of $400 a month goes toward the $20k for two acres bit.

    40hr week x 4 weeks = 160hrs a month
    $400 a month / 160hrs = $2.50/hr

    Then after the four years two months of labor is done you are released from your labor contract and are in the same category as the person that forked up the cash up front.

    It would be a good way to get laborers technically for free.

    A win win for those of us who do not have the liquid funds just sitting in a bank.
     
    Julie Anderson
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    paul wheaton wrote:
    Jocelyn Campbell wrote:
    Paul likes the term "poobah" - it meets his humor needs.


    I think "house commander" or "kitchen commander" sounds good too.



    I rather like Kitchen Goddess... That's my title here in my domain.

    Julie
     
    paul wheaton
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    Jay,

    I think there is something possible here.

    Of course there is a long list of variables and my crystal ball has a crack in it.

    How about this: i am open to ideas in this space. Especially as we are getting off the ground and have almost nothing to compensate folks with and the materials budget will be tight. I like the idea that somebody comes to the land, does awesome stuff for way too little compensation, and all I really have to offer is chunks of land in the deep roots package.

    I think this would definitely not be a math thing. I think this would be a thing where we get to a certain point and it just seems like the community as a whole would benefit if a person was more connected to a chunk of land.

    As I'm typing this, I'm thinking that this seems like a good, healthy path. Maybe the first connection will be made in the fall of next year for those that came first to the land in the next few weeks. Also, as I'm typing this, i can see jocelyn asking me hundreds of questions and making a dozen lists and when a person is curious about whether they might get connected, they will build strategies with jocelyn and pour through the lists ....

    So: possible. no guarantees.
     
    paul wheaton
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    Julie,

    I think each person is going to have to come up with their own title. And I cannot help but think that as people come and go, the reponsibility/job/domain will change for each group.
     
    Chris Kott
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    Paul,

    Are there any ways that haven't been brought up yet that the online community could help with your land and empire projects, up to and even including paid positions? I realize that any internet-related work that would qualify for this would be valued at way less per hour than someone labouring to improve TL or BC, but you could offer incentive in the form of, depending on the scale of the job, a formula similar to the one Jay describes. After a certain percentage of the task is accomplished, or has been successfully underway for a prescribed period of time, the worker has title to a section of land under your specific terms. Seeing as how people working from afar by definition are unlikely to be able to occupy their share, their involvement would be highly theoretical until they are able to make the life shift to TL.

    Jobs that might or might not warrant such arrangements might include:

    -write-ups or articles based on permies.com and richsoil.com content for specific periodical publications
    -writing projects for online/hard copy on demand publishing (perhaps in conjunction with kickstarters)
    -jobs having to do with the organisation and booking of Wheaton Permaculture Workshops

    I don't know if this idea will meet with your approval, but it might work to get short and medium-term work from those otherwise uninvolved for future pay in the form of land use that will eventually benefit TL as a whole.

    -CK
     
    paul wheaton
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    I do know that we have had some volunteers for the online empire putting in a lot of work, and that has been really cool. I would have to say that i value that and it would weigh heavily to the positive. And one of the things I am thinking of is that if a person comes and spends 15 months with us through the hardest part of getting everything started, not only is that a lot of hard work, but we also learn a lot about each other and how well this will fit.

    So: maybe.
     
    kadence blevins
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    perhaps a fund raiser like wethetrees type thing to raise funds for things. like materials and whatever else. my first thought would be fence fund but it could work for anything.
     
    Jocelyn Campbell
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    paul wheaton wrote:
    Jocelyn Campbell wrote:
    Paul likes the term "poobah" - it meets his humor needs.


    I think "house commander" or "kitchen commander" sounds good too.



    It seems we are in need of a "house commander" sooner rather than later.

    Cool, amazing people are coming out to help - though they are falling trees, making shakes, using a draw knife on logs, digging tank traps, etc. all up on the laboratory, and not so much around base camp.

    Paul was thinking it's time to pay someone to come out, live here, and take care of the following (they would be paid poorly for now):

    70% cooking, food preservation and sourcing, kitchen management
    10% wild food gathering, prepping, storing
    20% people space care/management
    (these percentages are, of course, estimates)
     
    Julie Anderson
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    I wish that my current circumstances were such that I could apply for the position of Kitchen Goddess. That job description is my dream job. Alas it is not meant to be at this time. I am tied to my family responsibilities (aging and ill parents) for a hopefully not too short period of time.

    I have been following your journey closely. I hope you find the right person to fill this niche.

    Julie
     
    Jocelyn Campbell
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    Thanks, Julie - your kind words and interest (even if from afar) are much appreciated.

    Quick note to add that the cooking involves this type of food and drink.
     
    jennie miles
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    Hi Jocelyn --I posted a reply to you at the food and drink thread. I'm really interested in the cook position. Jennie Miles
     
    Jocelyn Campbell
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    Jocelyn Campbell wrote:

    It seems we are in need of a "house commander" sooner rather than later.

    Cool, amazing people are coming out to help - though they are falling trees, making shakes, using a draw knife on logs, digging tank traps, etc. all up on the laboratory, and not so much around base camp.

    Paul was thinking it's time to pay someone to come out, live here, and take care of the following (they would be paid poorly for now):

    70% cooking, food preservation and sourcing, kitchen management
    10% wild food gathering, prepping, storing
    20% people space care/management
    (these percentages are, of course, estimates)


    The poor pay would be in addition to free room and board, so when you add in the room and board, it's actually not bad pay.

    Anyone interested?
     
    Ken Peavey
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    There was a time not too long ago when I would have been chomping at the bit for such an opportunity.
     
    Jocelyn Campbell
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    Ken Peavey wrote:There was a time not too long ago when I would have been chomping at the bit for such an opportunity.


    Perhaps you know somebody. Or maybe someone else reading this thread knows somebody. (Hope, hope.)
     
    Emily Aaston
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    Tony and I would LOVE to help with these duties (kitchen) when we arrive in October. We plan to be there October 18th. Hopefully you will find a kitchen commander before then, but either way we will be very happy to help with these duties. We spent 4 months at an intentional community in san diego last year and became the kitchen commanders and actually wrote out a detailed kitchen guideline book that may be of use. Good luck!
     
    Jocelyn Campbell
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    Super! And your guideline book sounds fascinating! I mentioned this to Paul and he wondered how we might manage until October, so, yes, just to clarify: we would still love some help now, before October.

     
    paul wheaton
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    We have had a lot of people come out for a week or two and do amazing things.

    At this time, we have about two months before the snow flies - we need to get at least one wofati completed, get water flowing, the siding on the pooper, plus with all the workshops starting in mid november, we need another pooper, possibly a draggable shower-ish thing (water heated by compost?), three rocket mass heater boxes, plus a very special super-secret thing.

    And, of course, a long list of perpetual projects that pop out of nowhere.

    Oh, I have all the tools to make roundwood furniture and the workbench is now ready. And it would be nice to get some furniture churning out. And then there are my ideas about the 12 foot tall storage units on casters for the auditorium.

    So for people willing to come out and commit to two months, I hereby offer crappy pay, plus food and shelter. This would be for two months. And I'm willing to be a little flexible on the whole "most podcasts" thing.
     
    Stephanie Garvin
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    Jocelyn Campbell wrote:
    Jocelyn Campbell wrote:

    It seems we are in need of a "house commander" sooner rather than later.

    Cool, amazing people are coming out to help - though they are falling trees, making shakes, using a draw knife on logs, digging tank traps, etc. all up on the laboratory, and not so much around base camp.

    Paul was thinking it's time to pay someone to come out, live here, and take care of the following (they would be paid poorly for now):

    70% cooking, food preservation and sourcing, kitchen management
    10% wild food gathering, prepping, storing
    20% people space care/management
    (these percentages are, of course, estimates)



    The poor pay would be in addition to free room and board, so when you add in the room and board, it's actually not bad pay.

    Anyone interested?




    Absolutely! However I'm committed in Indonesia (Bali) for at least 6 months (teaching permaculture, organic gardening, writing food foraging courses and managing volunteers and interns as well as helping serve food etc to guests and doing all our admin work) . I'd love to come and fatten you all up with some Irish hospitality and food made with love. I'd also love to pander to the part of me that is the compulsive helper and take care of all your aches, pains, traditional medicine needs, 1st aid requirements and general cries for attention as needed. Let's keep in contact. Keep me posted when future vacancies arise from March 2014 onwards.
     
    Jocelyn Campbell
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    Stephanie Garvin wrote:Absolutely! However I'm committed in Indonesia (Bali) for at least 6 months (teaching permaculture, organic gardening, writing food foraging courses and managing volunteers and interns as well as helping serve food etc to guests and doing all our admin work) . I'd love to come and fatten you all up with some Irish hospitality and food made with love. I'd also love to pander to the part of me that is the compulsive helper and take care of all your aches, pains, traditional medicine needs, 1st aid requirements and general cries for attention as needed. Let's keep in contact. Keep me posted when future vacancies arise from March 2014 onwards.


    Gosh, I hope we have some help before March of next year - no offense Stephanie!

    Watch this forum thread for updates and we'll post the status of the open positions here.

    Feel free to ask questions here on the forum, too; though if for some reason that doesn't work to answer your query, send me a private message.
     
    Melanie Sorrentino
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    we & my husband are free to come out there if i could get the kitchen position. i have 16 years food service industry, though mostly all front of the house. I was vegan for 9 years and cooked for myself. i did raw vegan for 2 years and even have a old youtube channel with over 70 food videos. i've created half the recipes for a raw vegan cafe and ran the kitchen for a short time. after veganism i lived/cooked a paleo/primal style for 4+ years up until my current transition which doesn't have a cookie cutter label. in short i'm super sensitive and respectful of peoples diet and food choices.

    we sold our tiny house and land in arkansas and just moved back to texas. we've been looking for jobs but are willing to come out to The Land if we could earn some money while helping out. my husband does woodwork and would love to earn some cash helping out too. he's not afraid of hard work. coming out to the land NOW would be better than committing to a job then leaving after a short stay.

    what else?
     
    Jocelyn Campbell
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    Melanie, you sound very qualified, though I'm curious: what do you mean by "we & my husband?"

    I'm editing to clarify that room and board is for each paid position, and not for non-paid/non-working family members. I'm not sure how we would work that out. Paul mentioned the two months for some additional paid positions with room and board, too, so I wasn't sure if you thought that might be a role for your husband. Are there more than the two of you?
     
    Melanie Sorrentino
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    by "we" i meant "me". it's just the two of us. if there's only one paid position, which i can do, what are the other options so that me and husband can room/board together? if there's no jobs that he could help out with on the land are there jobs that he could drive to in order to pay for his food or rent? what are our options? are you ideally looking for someone who is single? i've listened to 99% of the podcast and we're catching up on the last few that we've missed out on from transitioning in the move to texas.
     
    Jocelyn Campbell
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    Oh, awesome that you've listened to most the podcasts! That makes a big difference.

    As Paul wrote yesterday, 8/4:

    paul wheaton wrote:So for people willing to come out and commit to two months, I hereby offer crappy pay, plus food and shelter. This would be for two months. And I'm willing to be a little flexible on the whole "most podcasts" thing.


    This would be for more project-oriented stuff on the lab and around base camp if your husband would be interested. I'll send you a private message so we can talk about it offline a bit more.
     
    Jocelyn Campbell
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    Jocelyn Campbell wrote:
    As Paul wrote yesterday, 8/4:

    paul wheaton wrote:So for people willing to come out and commit to two months, I hereby offer crappy pay, plus food and shelter. This would be for two months. And I'm willing to be a little flexible on the whole "most podcasts" thing.


    This would be for more project-oriented stuff on the lab and around base camp if your husband would be interested. I'll send you a private message so we can talk about it offline a bit more.


    By the way, even if it works for Melanie and husband to fill two positions (one kitchen commander, one "lab rat"), we're looking for at least one more person for the two month gig (or "lab rat" as the humorous title).
     
    Jocelyn Campbell
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    Another clarification: ideally the kitchen/house commander would be long term - whatever that means. While the other positions are about two months (for now). These are rough ideas. We're making it up as we go.
     
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