• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education skip experiences global resources cider press projects digital market permies.com pie forums private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Carla Burke
  • Nancy Reading
  • r ranson
  • Jay Angler
  • John F Dean
  • Pearl Sutton
stewards:
  • Nicole Alderman
  • paul wheaton
  • Anne Miller
master gardeners:
  • Christopher Weeks
  • Timothy Norton
gardeners:
  • thomas rubino
  • Jeremy VanGelder
  • Matt McSpadden

Major Deer Fencing Issue, Help! (PHOTO Added)

 
Posts: 13
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hello!

UPDATE FROM COMMENTS

The current plan is 8’ tall fencing, wooden posts for corners, t posts for in between. Wire every 4” for the bottom 1.5’, 6” apart up to 5’, and some kind of high visibility string or fishing line for the last 3’ 10” apart to the top.

I also thought I might use a few cheap/short 5-6’ t posts to do a 4’ fishing line fence a couple feet out from the outside of the fence?

The major issue right now is that they might step on or bend the wire, stretching it and getting through or getting stuck. I thought the fishing line fence (which would be very very cheap) outside the wire fence would make it harder to investigate and test the real fence?

PROBLEMS/QUESTIONS

1. Is 15’ apart for t posts too far? Wire is not heavy, just a stability question if deer push or step against the wire. Closer spacing gets more expensive fast.
2. Wouldn’t posts 2’ in the ground be a lot stronger and more stable than 10’ posts 2’ in the ground? 6’ of post above ground, then I would only have to string the top 2 feet of string between the wooden posts that are about 100’ apart.


Photo Added - I sketched out loosely what it would look like and where the fishing line outer perimiter would be.  







———
Original Post
———-


I am building a one acre ish garden that encloses my property, and if we don’t get fencing in soon the deer are going to destroy everything.

Permanent fencing is too expensive right now. And electric fencing will not work for us for a variety of reasons. We also can’t install woven wire/rolled fencing for a variety of reasons so this has left us with only weird options.

I like the appearance of wire fences like they use for horses, just single strands spaced evenly apart up the fence. Or they use barbed for livestock (we will not use barbed wire, I cannot deal with a trapped half dead deer)

The fence lines are also sloped. Most of them. This design would remove all the issues with installing on a slope and be pretty easy for me to install myself.

What I wanted to do was single strand wire fencing. I’m just concerned the deer will try and climb through it or won’t see the upper strands well enough and try and jump it, becoming entangled.

Do you think (non-barbed) wire fence would work if the wire was close enough together? String between t posts, maybe wooden post for corners.

I had thought maybe wire every 6” up from the ground til your at about 3’ maybe then every 10’ from there to the top? 8’ tall. Would be even better if could use plastic garden twine or something for the top few feet considering it’s just a visual deterrent from jumping at that point and the wire is extremely expensive because of how many strands I would need and the fact that it would be about 900 feet of it.

Is there any chance it would work? Would they just try and bend the wires and climb through?

Thank you!


IMG_5476.jpeg
[Thumbnail for IMG_5476.jpeg]
 
pollinator
Posts: 167
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
67
2
homeschooling kids homestead
  • Likes 7
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I can tell you that at that spacing this option will be close to as expensive as any other. If you space wider to cut costs, the deer will just happily climb through any wire fence that is 12" or more apart. Fencing deer out is an expensive venture no matter how you do it, and often the solution is to reduce the area being fenced and only plant the most at-risk things inside, while planting more deer resistant things outside the fence. I took the cheap road and used 7' t-posts and 6' chicken wire for a 1/2 acre garden - it took a few hits initially but eventually the deer stopped making attempts to get in after some obvious bad experiences (mangled fence and visibly seeing limping deer around the property). I would say this method has been 95% effective for 25% monetary cost, and visually it isn't terribly ugly - it's just about invisible from a few hundred yards away.
 
Maria Lane
Posts: 13
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I had considered the chicken wire too. The cost for it where I am was sorting it to be about the same as the rolls of wire (up to 1000$ ish to do the 1000’ very rough estimate).

I don’t have any way of dealing with a tangled and mangled deer which is what was concerning me about the flimsy chicken wire.

I do think I might be able to reduce the cost of the wire by using some high visibility string on the top maybe 3’ of strands since if they actually try and jump it it might be better if it does break.
 
steward
Posts: 16328
Location: USDA Zone 8a
4306
dog hunting food preservation cooking bee greening the desert
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I live where we do wildlife management so we have lots of deer.

Deer can jump a 8 ft high fence.

This is a unique idea if you can get free pallets:

https://permies.com/t/109675/Pallet-zig-zag-fence-multiple
 
master steward
Posts: 12775
Location: Pacific Wet Coast
7246
duck books chicken cooking food preservation ungarbage
  • Likes 7
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
The deer in my area will definitely break and push aside any fence that is wide enough for them to take advantage of. This is particularly true if there's something inside they particularly like (Beans - they adore beans - they'll do almost anything to get at beans.)

Factors that will help:
1. Plant stinky stuff they generally don't like on the outside of the fence. Allium family, but I'd do research as they have eaten garlic.
2. They're less likely to jump if they can't see where they will land. Thus making a packing pallet fence (if you can get lots free) may discourage them more than wire they can see through. If you do use wire, putting jumbled branches in a heap on the inside, may discourage them.
3. If the fence is perceived as being wide, they will be less likely to jump. So building a trellis that has width just inside the fence may help.
4. If you have to make do with a wimpy fence, find some friends with male dogs and make dog-fur pompoms to pin at "nose height" and that may help if the deer have easier pickings elsewhere.

There are lots of different fence ideas all over permies, so you may have to do some sleuthing and searching. Since money is limiting, consider what's around that cheap or free that you can work with. If you're in an area with lots of trees that need pruning or thinning, you may be able to get enough to make some sort of dead-hedge. In small areas, I've used plastic snow fencing, but I'd avoid buying it, as the bunnies chew through it. I've been given some second hand chain-link, but it's heavy to work with and needs quite solid posts which in my area are very expensive.

It is *very* difficult and generally expensive to truly exclude determined deer. Friend ended up fencing their garden, but not their whole property, when all the neighbours put up serious deer fence because all of a sudden, they were the only access left. I totally hear what you're saying and wish there were easier solutions.
 
Posts: 69
Location: Kansas Temperate Zone
16
forest garden food preservation cooking
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Wolf Urine maybe practical for your deer issue. A little goes a long way so one may wish to only order a very small amount. If you have dogs it may not be the best option. If cost of electric fence and size is a matter, Geoff Lawton has a great video about using a single strand fence that seems to be working quite well for many I will post the link below.
Good luck,
Larry

 
Maria Lane
Posts: 13
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
REPLY

The cost of the electric fence wasn’t the issue for us - we share property lines with 3 other people. And also have deliveries often. The neighbors have a collective 8 cats we really don’t want to kill or injure. We just couldn’t figure out how to make it work without a lot of problems. We can’t have it on a few inches from the gate deliveries are being made through and we get deliveries as late as 10 pm . We also get deer browse in the middle of the day. 🤷🏼‍♀️

We’ve got a bout 2k for this fence but that has to include 2 small gates, one driveway gate and all the t posts. So the material for the fencing itself can’t be more than 1k.

I’m also concerned about non-barrier fencing options (electric fencing is psychological not a barrier) We planted 21 fruit trees that got wrecked by deer last year then reallly struggled. If we “try” a fence like they and it doesn’t work they could do a lot of really expensive damage.
 
Posts: 63
23
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
there is an overlap between deer proof and people proof... fencing should be easy for you to get in and hard for pest to cross. I've tried tall fence short fence wolf pee hanging pie plates, cd's and other scary reflective things.  all i did was create a better grade of ninja deer that don't care about wolf pee smell.  eventually i got a sufficient food plot planted for the deer away from the orchard & garden that they now only come up occasionally to raid the garden. the trick is to make other food sources easier. one gizmo that was very effective in scaring the deer away is the motion detection activated sprinkler system. the draw back was it's also very effective at making a grumpy wet wife who just wanted to pick a few tomatoes for lunch.... that system has been abandoned and we're on the land of plenty alternatives method. the food plot took about 3 years to get well established, well worth the effort. good luck training your deer.
 
Posts: 9073
Location: Ozarks zone 7 alluvial, clay/loam with few rocks 50" yearly rain
2473
4
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Maria Lane wrote:Hello!

I am building a one acre ish garden that encloses my property, and if we don’t get fencing in soon the deer are going to destroy everything.

Permanent fencing is too expensive right now. And electric fencing will not work for us for a variety of reasons. We also can’t install woven wire/rolled fencing for a variety of reasons so this has left us with only weird options.

I like the appearance of wire fences like they use for horses, just single strands spaced evenly apart up the fence. Or they use barbed for livestock (we will not use barbed wire, I cannot deal with a trapped half dead deer)

The fence lines are also sloped. Most of them. This design would remove all the issues with installing on a slope and be pretty easy for me to install myself.

What I wanted to do was single strand wire fencing. I’m just concerned the deer will try and climb through it or won’t see the upper strands well enough and try and jump it, becoming entangled.

Do you think (non-barbed) wire fence would work if the wire was close enough together? String between t posts, maybe wooden post for corners.

I had thought maybe wire every 6” up from the ground til your at about 3’ maybe then every 10’ from there to the top? 8’ tall. Would be even better if could use plastic garden twine or something for the top few feet considering it’s just a visual deterrent from jumping at that point and the wire is extremely expensive because of how many strands I would need and the fact that it would be about 900 feet of it.

Is there any chance it would work? Would they just try and bend the wires and climb through?

Thank you!


EDIT: Thank you for the suggestions of other kinds of fencing, but I have considered a lot of options and would like to hear people’s thoughts on making this one specifically.



I think this could work with several modifications.

Are you thinking electric fence wire?
I'm not sure what other gauge is available on a big roll.

I would go for a nine foot height.  We had 8' steel posts which only stick out above ground six feet or so and then we added electric fence separaters to extend another three feet.

I think you would need to add some more verticle elements though to add enough rigidity to the horizontal wires for them to keep deer out...maybe cane, small bamboo, cut saplings, maybe mill ends if you have a saw mill near by?  

This all depends on how refined it needs to look

I'm not sure of prices either...that's a lot of wire and steel posts seemed way high last we priced them.
 
Maria Lane
Posts: 13
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Judith Browning wrote:

Maria Lane wrote:Hello!

I am building a one acre ish garden that encloses my property, and if we don’t get fencing in soon the deer are going to destroy everything.

Permanent fencing is too expensive right now. And electric fencing will not work for us for a variety of reasons. We also can’t install woven wire/rolled fencing for a variety of reasons so this has left us with only weird options.

I like the appearance of wire fences like they use for horses, just single strands spaced evenly apart up the fence. Or they use barbed for livestock (we will not use barbed wire, I cannot deal with a trapped half dead deer)

The fence lines are also sloped. Most of them. This design would remove all the issues with installing on a slope and be pretty easy for me to install myself.

What I wanted to do was single strand wire fencing. I’m just concerned the deer will try and climb through it or won’t see the upper strands well enough and try and jump it, becoming entangled.

Do you think (non-barbed) wire fence would work if the wire was close enough together? String between t posts, maybe wooden post for corners.

I had thought maybe wire every 6” up from the ground til your at about 3’ maybe then every 10’ from there to the top? 8’ tall. Would be even better if could use plastic garden twine or something for the top few feet considering it’s just a visual deterrent from jumping at that point and the wire is extremely expensive because of how many strands I would need and the fact that it would be about 900 feet of it.

Is there any chance it would work? Would they just try and bend the wires and climb through?

Thank you!


EDIT: Thank you for the suggestions of other kinds of fencing, but I have considered a lot of options and would like to hear people’s thoughts on making this one specifically.



I think this could work with several modifications.

Are you thinking electric fence wire?
I'm not sure what other gauge is available on a big roll.

I would go for a nine foot height.  We had 8' steel posts which only stick out above ground six feet or so and then we added electric fence separaters to extend another three feet.

I think you would need to add some more verticle elements though to add enough rigidity to the horizontal wires for them to keep deer out...maybe cane, small bamboo, cut saplings, maybe mill ends if you have a saw mill near by?  

This all depends on how refined it needs to look

I'm not sure of prices either...that's a lot of wire and steel posts seemed way high last we priced them.




No they wouldn’t be electric at all. We were just hoping it would be too difficult to climb through. We won’t be able to do higher than 8’ - the tallest t posts we can get are 10’ and we have crazy wind so we will need to put them 2’ into the ground for stability. (EDIT sorry I missed the part where you said you used extenders not taller posts the first time I read it) And i’m not sure I can even install something that tall, we might have to use 8’ and put something on the wooden corner posts to extend for the top strings

The priority needs to be keeping the deer out but ideally we need something neat looking (we have one acre surrounded by other houses we aren’t out that far in the country)

The wire is very expensive (125$ for a 1320’ roll last time I checked, but it would take a lot of strands at the bottom to discourage climbing through, I was hoping we could just use some high visibility string/twine for the top few feet since those feet just need to discourage jumping and that would be a lot less expensive)


Edit (also we were planning on t posts every 15’ I wonder if that will be enough rigidity for that bottom 5’ of wire that they can’t push it down or climb through)
 
Maria Lane
Posts: 13
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

J. Syme wrote:there is an overlap between deer proof and people proof... fencing should be easy for you to get in and hard for pest to cross. I've tried tall fence short fence wolf pee hanging pie plates, cd's and other scary reflective things.  all i did was create a better grade of ninja deer that don't care about wolf pee smell.  eventually i got a sufficient food plot planted for the deer away from the orchard & garden that they now only come up occasionally to raid the garden. the trick is to make other food sources easier. one gizmo that was very effective in scaring the deer away is the motion detection activated sprinkler system. the draw back was it's also very effective at making a grumpy wet wife who just wanted to pick a few tomatoes for lunch.... that system has been abandoned and we're on the land of plenty alternatives method. the food plot took about 3 years to get well established, well worth the effort. good luck training your deer.




Thanks We have one acre and our house is in the middle of it so unfortunately planting food for deer anywhere on it would make it worse (we’ve also lined the perimiter with small fruit trees and bushes so it’s too late for anything like that and it would be too close anyway).

I thought about the sprinkler thing but it would take a ton of them and also our deer are kind of domesticated (best we can tell it’s just one small herd of deer, but they often walk around really close to the houses and people’s dogs, they are not spooked easily).
 
pollinator
Posts: 663
Location: South West France
254
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
We have a Pyrenean mountain dog who lives with the chickens in a 1 hectare fenced area.  However, once a day, whenever I have the time or need a break,  I take him for a walk around the perimeter of our property.  He is so happy to be going walkies that he just can't help peeing every few metres, marking his territory at the edge of our land.  Since he lives outdoors and during the night barks at anything that comes too close, it is a good reminder for foxes and deer to keep well away.  We haven't had a problem since.

I enjoy the walk, so does he.  It also allows me to see things that have happened to the property that I would not necessarily notice if I did not make a point of going around, like something new growing or doing well or badly, something broken or fallen.  We have a fairly large property so obviously we do not go around all of it but just where it matters to us like where we planted trees, shrubs and vegetables.  We had 2 other dogs who enjoyed the daily adventure too but they sadly passed away recently.  In any case they were both females and my experience is that a male dog's urine is more potent.  Maybe one could even borrow a dog.  It does not even have to be every day, 2 or 3 times a week is good too, maybe more if it rains a lot.  Food for thought?

By the way, when my husband comes for the walk, he also pees around the boundary!!
 
steward
Posts: 15584
Location: Northern WI (zone 4)
4881
7
hunting trees books food preservation solar woodworking
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Where in the world are you located?  Here I can get a 1/4 mile of electric fence wire for $40  (Fleet Farm).

I think that if you do 10' t posts (2' in the ground) and run this wire every 6" low and every 10-12" up high, it should work just fine to keep deer out.  They're most likely to try to go under it.  I think you can use fewer t posts if you make some sort of wire holder in between the t posts.  It could just be a piece of wire that's staked to the ground, runs up and loops around the lowest wire, goes up to the next one and loops tightly around it, then up to the next one, and so on.
 
Judith Browning
Posts: 9073
Location: Ozarks zone 7 alluvial, clay/loam with few rocks 50" yearly rain
2473
4
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

  we were planning on t posts every 15’ I wonder if that will be enough rigidity for that bottom 5’ of wire that they can’t push it down or climb through)



We set posts 6'-8' apart.
15' is quite a long stretch for most any fence.
 
Maria Lane
Posts: 13
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Mike Haasl wrote:Where in the world are you located?  Here I can get a 1/4 mile of electric fence wire for $40  (Fleet Farm).

I think that if you do 10' t posts (2' in the ground) and run this wire every 6" low and every 10-12" up high, it should work just fine to keep deer out.  They're most likely to try to go under it.  I think you can use fewer t posts if you make some sort of wire holder in between the t posts.  It could just be a piece of wire that's staked to the ground, runs up and loops around the lowest wire, goes up to the next one and loops tightly around it, then up to the next one, and so on.




It’s not going to be an electric fence. Is thst type of wire rigid? We need something they won’t be able to bend and climb through. If that worked it would get it down to about 400$ (1/3 of what the other would cost)

What I was looking at was just smooth wire 12.5 gauge.

And I’m on the east cost I was looking at places like Tractor Supply and Home Depot  
 
Mike Haasl
steward
Posts: 15584
Location: Northern WI (zone 4)
4881
7
hunting trees books food preservation solar woodworking
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I know.  This is just the galvanized wire that can be used to convey electricity.  But it also works as just cheap wire.
 
Maria Lane
Posts: 13
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Mike Haasl wrote:I know.  This is just the galvanized wire that can be used to convey electricity.  But it also works as just cheap wire.



Thanks! If I can use this stuff it cuts the cost a lot. I might get a roll and test it.

I do wonder if the deer would just step on it and bend it to get though. I wonder if it’s possible to get it taut enough that they couldn’t do this.
 
Anne Miller
steward
Posts: 16328
Location: USDA Zone 8a
4306
dog hunting food preservation cooking bee greening the desert
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
We had what Mike is talking about wire strung like a regular barbwire fence then hooked up to an electric fence charger.  This worked well as long as the electric fence charger was on.

The fence charger was solar and hooked up to a battery so as long as the sun was shining the battery got charged.

I hope you find a solution that works for you.
 
pollinator
Posts: 5084
Location: Canadian Prairies - Zone 3b
1376
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Crazy idea, but I wonder if UV-glow fishing line might supplement your fencing and make it appear taller / deeper.

This is the stuff they sell to bass fishermen for night fishing -- the lines glow like a Christmas tree in UV light. Cabelas/Bass Pro usually carry it.

I've used this successfully to keep birds from crashing into my windows. Birds, bees, and deer can see much further into the ultraviolet than we can. That's why deer are on the move at dusk -- they can see better than their predators.
 
Maria Lane
Posts: 13
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Douglas Alpenstock wrote:Crazy idea, but I wonder if UV-glow fishing line might supplement your fencing and make it appear taller / deeper.

This is the stuff they sell to bass fishermen for night fishing -- the lines glow like a Christmas tree in UV light. Cabelas/Bass Pro usually carry it.

I've used this successfully to keep birds from crashing into my windows. Birds, bees, and deer can see much further into the ultraviolet than we can. That's why deer are on the move at dusk -- they can see better than their predators.




That’s really interesting. And we had a bird knock itself out temporarily last year so I will certainly look into putting some of that up for that reason
too.


I was just thinking about putting up the wire fencing, then what if I did the fishing line fence 2 to 3 feet out side of the wire fence? The wire fence is the actual barrier, but I wonder with enough time would they step on the wires and bend their way in. If there was fishing line every 5” or 10” for 4’ or so a couple feet outside of the 8’ wire fence, they would have to spend a lot of time there either figuring  out how to get through or break the fishing line before they could even investigate the real fence I wonder if that would discourage them from trying.

Glowing fishing line would maybe keep that focused on that outer (much cheaper) fence especially if they know that even getting through it would leave them with another fence to go through, and if they only climb through it they are scrunched between them.
 
Posts: 1010
Location: In the woods, West Coast USA
206
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Maria, I put a detailed description of the chicken wire fence I've used for 30 years in the description below.  If you are going to put a real commitment into a garden, then put a real commitment into a fence.  It's not fun going to bed at night willing your plants and food to be there in the morning.  Odds are, slowly but surely, they won't be, unless you do it right.

The initial investment may seem like a lot, but it lasts.  I'm near enough to the coast to get salt water mist that the fog pushes inland at night, and the first sections of chicken wire lasted 7-10 years depending on the manufacturer, which we can't really know about.  100 feet of my original fence is still up from 2006, not rusted.  Replacing it in sections is pretty easy.

I get the most damage from little critters: packrats, rabbits, foxes, so I turn out the bottom edge of the chicken wire about 6 inches and let the weeds grow through it to hold it down, then if they find a way in there will be a little trail that's obvious and you can find it quickly.

Your questions about posts in the ground, the wind is an issue.  You wouldn't think that chicken wire would resist the wind, but it does.  So go deep with the posts, and do a lot of reinforcement on the corners.  Check out cattle fencing for corner post design.  It's designed to keep in cows, about 1500 pounds apiece, they do a lot of pushing, and rubbing,

I couldn't find a way to put a link, but you can search on this:

Forum: permaculture, Living fences for intense deer browse?


 
Maria Lane
Posts: 13
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Cristo Balete wrote:Maria, I put a detailed description of the chicken wire fence I've used for 30 years in the description below.  If you are going to put a real commitment into a garden, then put a real commitment into a fence.  It's not fun going to bed at night willing your plants and food to be there in the morning.  Odds are, slowly but surely, they won't be, unless you do it right.

The initial investment may seem like a lot, but it lasts.  I'm near enough to the coast to get salt water mist that the fog pushes inland at night, and the first sections of chicken wire lasted 7-10 years depending on the manufacturer, which we can't really know about.  100 feet of my original fence is still up from 2006, not rusted.  Replacing it in sections is pretty easy.

I get the most damage from little critters: packrats, rabbits, foxes, so I turn out the bottom edge of the chicken wire about 6 inches and let the weeds grow through it to hold it down, then if they find a way in there will be a little trail that's obvious and you can find it quickly.

Your questions about posts in the ground, the wind is an issue.  You wouldn't think that chicken wire would resist the wind, but it does.  So go deep with the posts, and do a lot of reinforcement on the corners.  Check out cattle fencing for corner post design.  It's designed to keep in cows, about 1500 pounds apiece, they do a lot of pushing, and rubbing,

I couldn't find a way to put a link, but you can search on this:

Forum: permaculture, Living fences for intense deer browse?





Hi there!

We do have a lot of very very heavy wind and that was a concern I had with the chicken wire, also the chicken wire available near me has a lot of bad reviews for breaking or rusting and I am concerned the deer will just break through it.

I wonder if it would be worth putting chicken wire on the bottom 1.5’ to 2’ on top of the wire, to still keep the deer from digging under but also block some of those small things. Do you think those small animals would just climb over it if it’s just the bottom couple feet?

The cattle fencing thing is a great idea I will check that out for stabilizing the corners. The wire I’m planning to use shouldn’t create wind resistance much but I need to assume the deer might try and step on the wire or push it down.

I feel like 8’ posts 2’ in the ground will be more stable than 10’ posts 2’ in the ground.

I don’t know how to add links either I will look that up.

Thanks! :)

 
Jay Angler
master steward
Posts: 12775
Location: Pacific Wet Coast
7246
duck books chicken cooking food preservation ungarbage
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Maria Lane wrote:I wonder if it would be worth putting chicken wire on the bottom 1.5’ to 2’ on top of the wire, to still keep the deer from digging under but also block some of those small things. Do you think those small animals would just climb over it if it’s just the bottom couple feet?

How's your owl population? Our little things are far more inclined to dig under because they're likely to get picked off if they go up. I would go out 6" and up at least 2 feet to accomplish this effect.
 
Maria Lane
Posts: 13
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Jay Angler wrote:

Maria Lane wrote:I wonder if it would be worth putting chicken wire on the bottom 1.5’ to 2’ on top of the wire, to still keep the deer from digging under but also block some of those small things. Do you think those small animals would just climb over it if it’s just the bottom couple feet?

How's your owl population? Our little things are far more inclined to dig under because they're likely to get picked off if they go up. I would go out 6" and up at least 2 feet to accomplish this effect.





I’m not sure we have any at all, though we have thought of putting in an owl box to help get rid of snakes. I wonder if the chicken wire would keep snakes out too if the holes are small enough.

So we need to leave some slack to prevent digging 👍🏻

 
Cristo Balete
Posts: 1010
Location: In the woods, West Coast USA
206
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Maria,
I am in a very windy place, too.  Last year we had something called a Microblast, sustained wind over 70 MPH, like nothing I've ever heard, everything shook, 30 pine trees came down that night, the whole skyline changed.  The chicken wire, however, was fine!

Some of my chicken wire rusted after quite a few years, maybe 8 years or so, and the salt mist from the ocean gets pushed inland by the fog here, so I think it held up very well.  I have 800 feet of chicken wire surrounding an acre, put up in 2006, and I have only replaced maybe 1/2 of the lower layer.  The construction plaster chicken wire (2" holes,) for the top layer hasn't rusted yet, but the holes are too big to put around the bottom, and the packrats get through.

In some places where the ground gets saturated the T posts will lean a little, but it's easy enough to get them up straight again.

8-foot poles, 2 feet in the ground sounds good, if your ground doesn't freeze and it won't heave.  There are short garden poles that can be attached to the top of the metal T pole, to become 8 feet high, with a silver hose clamp, easily available at a hardware store.  

Deer don't dig to get under wire, but rabbits and packrats do.  That's why I turn the bottom horizontal layer outwards 6 inches, and let the weeds grow through it to hold it down.  That makes the height of the chicken wire come below the 8 foot mark, so that colored plastic rope, or bright mason line string across at the 8 foot height stops the deer, helps the birds, like quail, to see the top so they can get over safely.  The plastic polyester rope lasts way longer than the mason line, which fades.
 
Cristo Balete
Posts: 1010
Location: In the woods, West Coast USA
206
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Pictures of my chicken wire fence with poly rope along top at 8 feet,  Poly rope sewed sections together.  Galvanized Wire holds chicken wire to the extender post through holes or tabs (the posts came that way),   In the sewn-together pic the lower wire is 18 years old, shows a little bit of rust.  The top, plaster chicken wire  (I think it was Star brand,) has larger holes and is 5 years old, no signs of rust.

I buy 150-foot rolls, seems the cheapest way to buy, they store well.

Don't buy just any "plastic" rope.  A lot of it dissolves in a short period.  Polyester rope is the stuff that can be in the sun.

My posts are 10 feet apart, wouldn't go any farther than that, because of wind, because of stability of the fence in general.  


FenceSpecifics.jpg
[Thumbnail for FenceSpecifics.jpg]
 
Cristo Balete
Posts: 1010
Location: In the woods, West Coast USA
206
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
When you think about losses of mature trees and food plants, compared to the cost of an effective fence, the loss of even a 5-year-old fruit trees is big.  Having to start over because of chewing at the base of the tree, girdling, or chewing off flowering branches, breaking branches, that's a much bigger loss.  The loss of a year's worth of blackberries (you only get berries on last-year's growth.)   Honeyberries, blueberries, gummy berries, service berries, elderberries,

I have a few sacrifical roses around that the deer and rabbits/packrats cannot resist, so if those are chewed I can tell right away something has gotten through.

Whether the components of the fence rust or not depends on the batches from the manufacturer.  I buy all these components from the same place and they are a little different from time to time, but not enough to buy them somewhere else.  That's probably true of everything we buy these days.
 
pollinator
Posts: 189
Location: Colrain, MA, USA (5a - ~1,000' elev.)
20
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
This low but wide/deep electric fence has research showing it's worth: https://www.ncat.org/electric-deer-fence-tips-and-resources/

And here's an article on 'slashwalls' of logging debris used to protect tree regeneration: https://northernwoodlands.org/articles/article/effects-deer-forest-ecosystems
 
rubbery bacon. crispy tiny ad:
turnkey permaculture paradise for zero monies
https://permies.com/t/267198/turnkey-permaculture-paradise-monies
reply
    Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic