Is anyone drying tree hay for chickens?

Has anyone actually dried tree hay for chickens?

What varieties of trees? (please give the best description possible or a link to info on the tree as I'm not good at identifying trees and we sometimes have different names for things here)

How did you feed them the dry hay?

I do have some Mulberry (Morus alba). I know the chickens like the fruit, but my trees didn't fruit this year. I believe the tree is marginal in my ecosystem. However, I do have a small one growing near one run with chickens and ducks in it, and the ducks taught the chickens to eat it. That said, one reference here on permies suggested it should only be a small percentage of their diet.

Yes, I'm aware that what the chickens *really* want is bugs, worms and slugs, but I'm no good at encouraging them in a large enough quantity. We're slightly too far north for Black Soldier Flies.

I'm wondering if great piles of leaves, from raking leaves in the fall, would count as "tree hay." The chickens would scratch around in them and eat what they pleased, and if they were deep enough, would shelter the bugs that the chickens desire, at least for a while into winter. I'm planning to try this, hopefully under cover if I can get the plastic to stay in place over hoop cattle panels. I've tried it before, but underestimated the strength of the wind vs my attempts to secure the plastic. However, if it works, I imagine the plastic trapping enough heat and the leaves being insulating enough that....well, that's as far as my imagination can take it. Good things happen, that's my hope.

The word "hay" means it is high in protein. Tree hay would be different in protein level compared to fall leaves. My mulberry tree always has green leaves frozen and shed from the first hard freeze and I would collect those fallen and desiccated leaves and crushed them into powders. Though I haven't used them as supplement to chicken feed, I fill up a few jars full and mix the powder in the soil the following spring, as substitute of alfalfa hay.

Tilia Americana and it's European counterpart make quality tree hay and Pollard well for the purpose.

I don't think raking leaves will last into the winter. When you take off full branches and bunch them together, the leaves stay fresh enough to work as winter feed.

Nitrogen fixing leguminous trees

In Australia farms often have poplars growing as they can be used for sheep in a drought when there's not enough feed. It's funny looking at paddocks with them growing on the fence line. The ones on the road side have leaves all the way to the base...the ones on the paddock side where the sheep are are stripped up to the height sheep can reach....they certainly like it even when they don't "need" it. No idea if that would work for chooks

My friend swears by "Clukker tucker"  a mix of seeds to grow forage plants for her chickens.  It consists of:-
barrel medic,  bok choy,  buckwheat,  forage chicory,  cocksfoot,  linseed,  millet,  forage plantain,  silverbeet, subclover,  sunflower.   Some of these I've never heard of!  Some research needed.

The other thought is tagasaste  (we call it tree lucerne)  it's a small nitrogen-fixing tree, so enhances soil fertility,  and so on - but this site will tell you so much better than I can
https://deepgreenpermaculture.com/2019/12/10/permaculture-plants-tagasaste-the-nitrogen-fixing-tree-for-large-sites/

We grew it for an emergency fodder for cattle.  It can be made into a hedge - next to the chicken pen fence? so they can pick as they like.   Not too certain how it might go with frost, especially when small.   The cockatoos love the seeds, so the chickens will too.   In our climate (Mediterranean) it's green all year,  and has prolific white flowers that attract bees.
Edit:  Your mulberry tree can be made into many - cuttings strike easily -  maybe another hedge prospect.

I saw a video about feeding chickens with just bamboo and brown rice. I don't know if you'd count bamboo as "tree hay" and I think the video showed fresh cut but it seems worth a try especially with how fast bamboo can grow.

Leaf/compost piles grow yummie things like worms, earwigs, sowbugs, etc. that provide great chicken feed. And chickens love scratching up/stirring up compost. Come spring, it is perfect for the garden, with the added aged chicken manure

I am not doing that directly, but here is a twist.....     I have been feeding black soldier flies from tree hay,    I would imagine that you could then feed the chickens from the BSF..        To get the BSF started, ferment the tree hay.....     I have wrens that adore the bsf.

Leaf/compost piles grow yummie things like worms, earwigs, sowbugs, etc. that provide great chicken feed. And chickens love scratching up/stirring up compost. Come spring, it is perfect for the garden, with the added aged chicken manure

Aurora House wrote:I saw a video about feeding chickens with just bamboo and brown rice. I don't know if you'd count bamboo as "tree hay" and I think the video showed fresh cut but it seems worth a try especially with how fast bamboo can grow.

This is part of a Korean Natural Farming technique but is not used to feed chickens. Rather it's used for the first 3 days of a chicks life (while they are still supported by the energy from their egg) to stimulate full development of the gut. (I didn't know this when I started KNF and had chick loss!)

The KNF approach for storing feed for winter is to make fodder into silage using LAB (Lactic Acid Bacterial serum) which increases protein content.

Using fodder trees to store as hay is also a good practice as these trees tend to be higher in protein and fast growing. A fellow named Nick Ferguson has a website about fodder trees (also a nursery) but I don't know the url.

I just wanted to jump in and clarify the rice and bamboo bit. I have no personal experience with tree hay.

I think any kind of green browse (grass, hay, leaves) is a relatively small part of a chicken diet. They need more concentrated feeds, hence the soy, grain, and bugs. If you want a grazer, you want geese.
I think piles of leaves and other organic matter would be your best bet, as the piles will attract bugs and worms. Check out the edible actes chicken videos in youtube - he has a lot on growin chicken feed.

Mart Hale wrote:I am not doing that directly, but here is a twist.....     I have been feeding black soldier flies from tree hay,    I would imagine that you could then feed the chickens from the BSF..        To get the BSF started, ferment the tree hay.....     I have wrens that adore the bsf.

Please tell more about your setup and show some pics if you can. I’d love to know how to do this as BSF are prolific in Florida in the summer.

Erin Cross wrote:

Mart Hale wrote:I am not doing that directly, but here is a twist.....     I have been feeding black soldier flies from tree hay,    I would imagine that you could then feed the chickens from the BSF..        To get the BSF started, ferment the tree hay.....     I have wrens that adore the bsf.

Please tell more about your setup and show some pics if you can. I’d love to know how to do this as BSF are prolific in Florida in the summer.

Hi Neighbor,

I am over near Ocala Florida,   I am in experimental phase with this method.        What I started with was a 55 gal barrel that I shredded up bolivian sunflowers up   to make soil...         After having some excess chicken fat I poured it on to the full barrel of shredded sunflowers,  then the BSF came...  

This 55 gal barrel I made up special there is a one inch pvc at the bottom of the barrel that goes to water my plants at night,   I at about 1:30 AM my pump turns on and water flows thru this barrel and keeps what I have inside wet so it breaks down faster, and the water then is fertilized which then feeds my plants via ( sub irrigated planters )....         This works out well for the BSF as it flushes out the toxins from the barrel.

I take an electric chain saw an go out and trim down my bolivian sunflowers and then put that in for the flies to eat, or I will put it into a 5 gal bucket of water for it to ferment, then dump it in....

But I have not been diligent in maintaing this system,  nor have I collected the larva,   my main interest is soil, and nutrients from the bsf frass.

Here is a video of a design I found that I really like ->

https://rumble.com/v5f2in6-black-soldier-fly-harvest.html

Aurora House wrote:I saw a video about feeding chickens with just bamboo and brown rice. I don't know if you'd count bamboo as "tree hay" and I think the video showed fresh cut but it seems worth a try especially with how fast bamboo can grow.

Interesting! If there's any chance you could track down that video, it might be helpful? Bambusoideae are a grass, but there are different families and I'm worried that could make a big difference in how edible the leaves would be. I grow Phyllostachys dulcis and it stays green all winter, so cutting off side branches to feed to the chickens would be fairly easy to do (much easier than actually having to dry it). In fact I might take clippers with me to the field and let a couple of the small groups do some taste testing! If Sher Miller is correct that it needs to be turned to silage for adult chickens, that again is adding to the work-load.

Yes, I totally recognize that bugs are a huge attraction to the chickens. My friend has talked about growing BSF for years, but as mentioned somewhere, it really needs a greenhouse in our climate and somehow that wish list item seems to be on permanent stall!

It sounds as if Little Leaf Linden may grow here, but I'm not so sure about Tilia americana - more research is needed on that too, and it will definitely be deciduous, so winter feed would need to be dried in the summer and stored. Tilia americana is a big tree, so how to harvest must be factored in!

Mulberry (Morus alba) can help with the protein and micro-nutrient side of things - I'm not considering having chickens eat a single plant. as that's generally not a healthy thing! I'm more looking for some low input ways to supplement their environment that is more fun than chicken feed.

Jay Angler wrote:
It sounds as if Little Leaf Linden may grow here, but I'm not so sure about Tilia americana - more research is needed on that too, and it will definitely be deciduous, so winter feed would need to be dried in the summer and stored. Tilia americana is a big tree, so how to harvest must be factored in!

Here is a video I saw about this. They Pollard the trees when harvesting the tree hay, which keeps it at a convenient height

Jay Angler wrote:I grow Phyllostachys dulcis and it stays green all winter, so cutting off side branches to feed to the chickens would be fairly easy to do (much easier than actually having to dry it).

So I cut two small, lower side branches. I have two shelters that have a mix of Khaki Campbell ducks and chickens, so I put a piece in with each group. From my past experience, chickens are wary of any new food (except maybe bugs). However, I've also observed that the ducks seem to like leaves, and I definitely saw a khaki cleaning up the remaining bits off leaf when I checked on them. The leaves were stripped off in both shelters.

However, bamboo leaves aren't known for their nutritional value, so from that perspective, I don't think I'd give them large quantities. Variety is the spice of life with birds as well as people!

Jill Dyer wrote:
The other thought is tagasaste  (we call it tree lucerne)  it's a small nitrogen-fixing tree, so enhances soil fertility,  and so on - but this site will tell you so much better than I can
https://deepgreenpermaculture.com/2019/12/10/permaculture-plants-tagasaste-the-nitrogen-fixing-tree-for-large-sites/

We grew it for an emergency fodder for cattle.  It can be made into a hedge - next to the chicken pen fence? so they can pick as they like.   Not too certain how it might go with frost, especially when small.   The cockatoos love the seeds, so the chickens will too.   In our climate (Mediterranean) it's green all year,  and has prolific white flowers that attract bees.
Edit:  Your mulberry tree can be made into many - cuttings strike easily -  maybe another hedge prospect.

My chicken pen is underneath a few tagasaste trees and every single leaf or flower that lands on the ground is gone within seconds. Great fodder crop, and because it starts blooming in midwinter here it fills a gap for bees and birds.

Moringa is excellent for chickens...if it will grow in your area!

Has anyone grown Tagasaste for chickens? ( Chamaecytisus proliferus )

It sounds as if it's capable of getting out of control in some ecosystems, but is not listed as an invasive species in my province.
https://goodlifepermaculture.com.au/tagasaste-tree-lucerne-friend-or-foe/

There are a few large tagasaste that lean out and overhang the chicken run here. Flower drop is the most popular product, and if a branch breaks off and falls in it gets stripped. They also like the seeds but it seems like each summer they have to relearn the fact that small black shiny things are food.

Our native pigeons, the kēreru, love these trees and will strip flowers, buds, and tender growth around this time of year. It's always fun to watch them perch on a branch that can barely support them (they're huge) and fall off with a swooping recovery to land on the next tree over.

Sher Miller wrote:

Aurora House wrote:I saw a video about feeding chickens with just bamboo and brown rice. I don't know if you'd count bamboo as "tree hay" and I think the video showed fresh cut but it seems worth a try especially with how fast bamboo can grow.

This is part of a Korean Natural Farming technique but is not used to feed chickens. Rather it's used for the first 3 days of a chicks life (while they are still supported by the energy from their egg) to stimulate full development of the gut. (I didn't know this when I started KNF and had chick loss!)

The KNF approach for storing feed for winter is to make fodder into silage using LAB (Lactic Acid Bacterial serum) which increases protein content.

Using fodder trees to store as hay is also a good practice as these trees tend to be higher in protein and fast growing. A fellow named Nick Ferguson has a website about fodder trees (also a nursery) but I don't know the url.

I just wanted to jump in and clarify the rice and bamboo bit. I have no personal experience with tree hay.

Nick Ferguson's site is:  https://rareplantstore.com/

He's a regular contributor to The Survival Podcast and answers many questions about fodder tree systems on Expert Council segments.  Jack, the host, is also a big proponent of these systems and frequently does permaculture topics on his show.  You can find his podcast or use the website:  https://www.thesurvivalpodcast.com/

Alternatively, the Regenerative Agroforestry Podcast is mostly dedicated to conventional or organic cropping with tree systems.  It has many interviews with farmers who actually do silvopasture, alley cropping, coppicing, etc

I've tried using red mulberry as fodder for my chickens, but they don't seem to care too much for the live or dead leaves.  I bet they would eat dried leaves as part of a nutrient pellet, though.  As many others have mentioned, the chickens do love looking for bugs underneath the leaf piles.

Living with only boat or floatplane access in Alaska, I used trees in several ways in the henhouse.
During winter, when there were no fresh weeds to give them, I cut hemlock branches for my hens. (Hemlock the forest tree, not the poisonous herb.) The needles are full of vitamin C (and make a nice tea for humans, which sailors used to prevent scurvy.) The hens would strip the needles off the branches and relished them. It kept the hens happy and nourished, and kept the egg yolks nice and colorful too.

I also collected fallen alder leaves whenever I could find dry ones. Sometimes I'd row to small islands to collect them where alders overhung the shoreside rocks. They make outstanding bedding. Chickens evolved in jungle ecosystems, scratching in the forest duff--mostly fallen leaves. Because they can scratch the leaves and mix them so effectively, I never had trouble with manure caking and accumulating on top of the bedding, as I have had with straw. I used big garbage bags to keep them dry for winter bedding. (If they get wet, they make great compost, but aren't an absorbent bedding.) I did the same with dead beach grass--collect it during frozen-dry periods in winter for use as bedding. It was great because it didn't have weed seeds in it, but not as mixable, scratch-able, and spreadable as leaves.

I have not fed them this way, but very close: Our city demands people bag their leaves in the fall. I have taken a few bags and emptied them in their "winter run" [a covered area I send them to when I'm cleaning their coop].
Well, they didn't rush to eat those leaves but they did scratch and tear them in tiny pieces. Those pieces mixed with the sandy ground there and practically disappeared. mixed with their dung, they will be valuable mulch.
They will eat the leaves green, though. If you make a "bouquet" of smaller cut branches and tie it to the fence, it seems easier for them to tear the leaves off.
Also, they are quite good at tearing the leaves off of the suckers on my fruit trees in their enclosure [I have to put up with deep nesting baths around my fruit trees, but oh, well...]

I have a mulberry in my chicken run and they won't touch the leaves. Disappointing.

Catherine, have you tried pulling the leaves off and giving that to them that way?

Maybe those are lazy chickens ...

Catharine Slover wrote:I have a mulberry in my chicken run and they won't touch the leaves. Disappointing.

My chickens aren't keen either. They will happily eat the fruit.

My ducks aren't much more interested, but they will take the odd leaf. The ducks have been happy to eat Ocean Spray (Holodiscus discolor), but I worry about the poky branches hurting their eyes. Cécile's suggestion of tying  the branches to the mesh might be worth a go. I haven't tried drying it for them, and maybe I should and trust that they know it's OK for them to eat it?

Hey Jay,

A little more about Nick Ferguson's site - check out the writeups and links (www.rareplantstore.com).  He sells some fodder trees that get up to 15% protein so if the chickens will eat the leaves then you'll have a good source.  I'm currently researching this as well to get rid of the purchased grain for our small cattle herd and a few chickens - eventually.  I just started growing a batch of the bare root trees that Nick sells - Hybrid Willow, Lacebark Elm and Mulberry; the willows are already over 8 ft tall since I got them around 8-10 inches in May!  My initial thoughts are to put the chickens into a chicken tractor or two so they get fresh grass and bugs daily - but during winter I'll need a substitute when the grass dies back.  Nick's even got a batch of trees he calls "Bacon Trees" for pig propagation - Persimmon, White Oak and Red Mulberry.  Anyway, I'm not an affiliate or anything, but thought passing the site again would be good as an information source.  Look closely in the articles, the links are a tad bit hidden with a font color that is easy to miss.

Nicks YouTube - Homegrown Liberty:  Lots of vids on tree hay, coppicing and pollarding, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/@homegrownliberty3033

Good Luck and Keep us posted on your results - Regards, K

Thanks K Hanner, I will read the articles as time allows. I live on an Island in Canada, and the authorities are very strict about what plants can or can't be imported, so I will have to be very careful. I understand their caution as there are a couple of diseases that haven't shown up in my province and I totally understand how keen the farmers are to keep it that way!

We have a native willow, which I think I know how to identify and a neighbor has weeping willow which I suspect is being irrigated. Getting things to survive our summer drought without too much care is also a bit of a challenge. The willows I've tried to plant in the past either died from the drought or got over-grazed by the deer.  Some plants just don't like certain ecosystems - that's why we have so many ecosystems!

I did a pretty deep dive into the fodder tree issue a few weeks back - I'm almost positive that any of the willows will work as feed.  Not only that, but you can take 6-inch cuttings and just stick them in a pot of soil (right side up) and they will probably sprout with routine watering until they get established.  I'm not going to plant mine until next April/May, but wanted to get a jump on them because they don't really start producing until year 3 or so.  Got them in 3 gal pots for now.

Fully understand the imported plant issue - I'm currently in the NotSo Wet Coast in Southern California and they confiscate any fruit from other states at the border before you can come in...same thing - disease, bugs, invasive species.  Moving to KY over next few months to take over the family generation property.

Regards, K