• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education skip experiences global resources cider press projects digital market permies.com pie forums private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Nicole Alderman
  • Anne Miller
  • Mike Haasl
  • Pearl Sutton
  • paul wheaton
stewards:
  • r ranson
  • Burra Maluca
  • Joseph Lofthouse
master gardeners:
  • jordan barton
  • Leigh Tate
  • Carla Burke
gardeners:
  • Greg Martin
  • Jay Angler
  • John F Dean

Tattler Canning Lid Fail! Beware!

 
pollinator
Posts: 1613
Location: northern California
229
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I've been using the re-usable Tattler canning lids for a couple of years now with generally good results. There will often be a jar out of a dozen or two that will fail to seal, a higher percentage than with metal lids, but I considered that tolerable. Then I read the direction which says to back the metal bands off slightly when canning and then tighten them down immediately upon taking the jars out of the canner. So I started doing that, and seemed to see no improvement in my seal percentage.
But yesterday canning vegetable soup, I had taken the jars from the depressurized canner, and they were still boiling inside of the jars. I'm used to seeing this with jars of very liquidy stuff, and I guess somehow didn't think that that vapor was actually still escaping the lids somehow. When I tightened the first ring down, the lid blew out, spraying hot soup into my face, scalding me in several places! This morning I have a couple of small blisters. I wonder how much worse it would have been if I didn't have a lot of facial hair or glasses!
Looking through the directions carefully for both the canner and the lids, it seems like a dangerous protocol is encouraged by two processes....1. opening the canner up and taking the jars out as soon as the pressure gauge reads zero.....followed by 2. tightening those bands down right then, as the Tattler directions seem to indicate. Searching on numerous forums brings up a suggestion....some people wait ten minutes or so after the gauge reads zero before opening the canner. I think I'm going to also wait until I see no boiling action inside of the jars before tightening the bands down. When I first started using the Tattler lids I did not do this protocol of first loosening and then retightening the bands, treating them instead exactly like metal lids, and did not notice a difference in the seal failure rate.
In the fine print on Tattler's website I also notice this warning: "use a towel or something similar while tightening metal band after processing to help prevent accidental contact with hot contents." This warning does not appear on the boxes of the lids! It seems that this should be more blatantly stated!
Looking through various forums and reviews we've come across another account of burns resulting from an incident like this, so I'm not the only one, and also a consistently higher failure to seal percentage. I notice it is particularly likely with blended foods like soup and chili, that are processed for a long time, as opposed to foods consisting mostly of a single ingredient, like tomatoes, beans or even salsa.
 
pollinator
Posts: 928
Location: Melbourne FL, USA - Pine and Palmetto Flatland, Sandy and Acidic
44
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I love my Tattler canning lids! One question though, how did you form a conclusion that the increase in canning fails were due to the Tattler lids?
 
Alder Burns
pollinator
Posts: 1613
Location: northern California
229
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
When I use "ordinary" single use metal lids, I usually can go several "batches" (usually a batch for me is 24 pints in my big pressure canner) before I see a jar fail to seal. With the Tattlers it's more like one jar, or two, or three, out of EVERY batch! And with the 'blended foods', like soup and chili, it's been like 40%. And also, in 25 years canning, I've never known a metal lid to blow out like the Tattler lid just did. (But then, one doesn't tighten the bands after bringing the jars out of the canner with the metal lids).
I think part of my problem with the seal failures is that if I see a recommended time at 15 pounds, I am likely to try it in order to save time. 15# means 250 degrees which is the maximum temp. recommended for Tattlers, so perhaps I'm pushing their limits. I'm going to stay at 10# from now on with these lids, let the cooker cool 10 minutes before opening it, and not tighten those bands down till I see the stuff inside is done boiling!
 
Alder Burns
pollinator
Posts: 1613
Location: northern California
229
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Just got off the phone with someone at Tattler and she told me that I'm probably tightening the bands TOO TIGHT initially, before placing the jars in the canner. Written and website instructions say to tighten them hand tight, then back the bands off by 1/4 inch. What I was told today is the best way is to set the jars on the table and screw the bands onto them, without holding onto the jar at all. When the jar begins to turn with the band, it's tight enough to put in the pot. The person at Tattler insisted that I should not let the canner sit more than five minutes after depressurizing, and to tighten the bands immediately upon removing the jars, whether I see boiling in the jars or not. So I've got a new tactic to try.....
 
pollinator
Posts: 3737
Location: Kansas Zone 6a
158
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I love tattlers, EXCEPT for in the pressure canner. I still haven't mastered that one. There is definitely a learning curve with them compared to metal disposable lids.

I always use a dry washcloth over the top of the lid when I tighten the band--I have never had a catastrophic failure but I have had them "squirt"a little if I screw up. The washcloth should protect against both problems.



 
Posts: 14
Location: Willamette Valley-Marion County
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
[quote=Alder Burns] I wonder how much worse it would have been if I didn't have a lot of facial hair or glasses! [/quote]

Moral of the story. Always have a beard.
 
Posts: 46
Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana
8
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I hadn't heard of this company before so went to their website to check them out and found that they have been re-designed. It's doesn't give an exact date though, this could have been September of last year, or before I suppose.


ANNOUNCING

Tattler Reusable Canning Lids is introducing the most revolutionary design update since the Reusable Canning Lids themselves!

EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY, the re-designed TATTLER LIDS (also bearing the name, “E-Z Seal”) will be available online. “E-Z Seal”, created by the original developer of Tattler Lids (Loren C. Stieg), have just become even easier to use, no learning curve. Simply place the lid/gasket combination on the jar, snug the metal band and process. Remove from the canner and allow to cool. Use is now the same as with conventional metal lids (for unknown reasons, metal bands sometimes loosen while processing, with any lid). We therefore recommend: Check the metal band after processing, while jar is hot, re-tighten if necessary, cover with towel for protection.

Orders on or after Wednesday, Sept. 3th will be “E-Z-SEAL”, and be shipped beginning Friday, Sept. 5th.



This was the website.
http://www.reusablecanninglids.com/


 
pollinator
Posts: 136
Location: Zone 7a, AZ
20
home care forest garden chicken food preservation medical herbs ungarbage
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Chris Knipstein wrote:I hadn't heard of this company before so went to their website to check them out and found that they have been re-designed. It's doesn't give an exact date though, this could have been September of last year, or before I suppose.


ANNOUNCING
   
Tattler Reusable Canning Lids is introducing the most revolutionary design update since the Reusable Canning Lids themselves!

EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY, the re-designed TATTLER LIDS (also bearing the name, “E-Z Seal”) will be available online. “E-Z Seal”, created by the original developer of Tattler Lids (Loren C. Stieg), have just become even easier to use, no learning curve. Simply place the lid/gasket combination on the jar, snug the metal band and process. Remove from the canner and allow to cool. Use is now the same as with conventional metal lids (for unknown reasons, metal bands sometimes loosen while processing, with any lid). We therefore recommend: Check the metal band after processing, while jar is hot, re-tighten if necessary, cover with towel for protection.

Orders on or after Wednesday, Sept. 3th will be “E-Z-SEAL”, and be shipped beginning Friday, Sept. 5th.



This was the website.
http://www.reusablecanninglids.com/




I tried the Tattlers a number of years ago when they first came out.  I didn't have many failures, but wasn't a fan of the process.  I recently found that they have revised their instruction yet again.  This seems to make more sense.  Now, you follow recipe instructions.  Then when you do remove them, let the jars sit for 3-5 minutes until they stop bubbling, then screw the ring down until they cool.  The revised instructions are not on the webpage, they are sent with orders.  I have canned about 25 jars with the new process and not had any failures.  

Bonnie
 
Posts: 10
Location: WA
1
chicken food preservation solar
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I have been using Tattler lids for years. I have good success with jams and water bath stuff (tomato sauce, fruit, apple sauce etc.).  I have terrible success (high failure rate on seals) for pressure canner stuff (meat and fish).  
I have thought this is because the method for canning with these lids is to not tighten them down until AFTER processing.  The lids need to be loose enough to allow for pressure release during processing. Not a problem for fruit and vegetables, but I think the fat in the meat and fish is getting around the rubber gasket when the pressure is releasing during processing. I think that’s why they are not sealing (I get about half fails—too much for expensive product).
Other people have said they have good experiences with water bath and not so good with pressure. But no one has talked about this being the issue.
Anyone out there can weigh in?
I too have found lids expensive and hard to come by. But do not want to re-use lids for meat.  
 
author & gardener
Posts: 1612
Location: Southeastern U.S. - Zone 7b
837
goat cat forest garden foraging chicken food preservation medical herbs writing solar wood heat homestead
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I've used tattler lids for several years now, too. Recently, I pressure canned 20 pints of bone broth with no fails. This summer, however, I WBC blueberries for the first time and had lots of fails! It seemed to be blueberry seeds bubbling out with the liquid and preventing the lid from sealing.

I try to analyze why I have fails, and have come up with the following reasons:
- Not tightening them down immediately after processing (as you mentioned, Nancy). This is harder with pressure canning, because it means I need to be there as soon as the canner pressure gets back to normal. Sometimes I get distracted and I think the jars begin to cool in the canner. I think this may affect sealing of some jars.
- The rubber rings aren't spotlessly clean. I notice that even though I wash them with soap and hot water after I open a jar, that when I scald the rings and lids, the heat sometimes seems to lift food residue from the ring. It's something I don't see beforehand, but after scalding in the hot water, oils (I think) seem to show on the surface of the ring. I have a separate cloth that I use to wipe off any rubber rings where I see this. Then I rinse them again in the hot water before placing on the jar.
- Sometimes the rubber rings slip a bit on the jar rim when I put on the white lid and metal band. I had less fails when I started to visually spot the placement of each rubber ring on each jar and hold the white lid down while I applied the metal band.
- Sometimes the metal bands don't seem to screw on properly. Seems to be a difference in jars, but if I can't get the band on firmly (before backing it off a bit as per Tattler instructions), I try another one.

I still have occasional fails, but by paying attention to these things I have less. I'm also guessing that as the rubber rings get old, they fail more.
 
Nancy Swanson
Posts: 10
Location: WA
1
chicken food preservation solar
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Thanks Leigh. I’m surprised you didn’t get some fails with the bone broth. Have you used them with meat or fish?
I think that, because they are loose during processing, stuff (grease, blueberry seeds etc,) can get around the rubber and prevent sealing.
Has anyone tried tightening them down like the regular lids?  Maybe exploding jars?
 
Posts: 10
2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi Ladies, Hey, my Mom canned like a mad man the whole time I was growing up and she had great success at canning fish and meat. I was an avid hunter and Dad and I both avid fishermen so she always had something to do besides the garden stuff and fruit she would do seasonally. She told me once and I have no clue why it stuck with me all these years, but she said the secret to canning any kind of meat or meat product was to leave the jars IN the pressure cooker to cool. I know, takes FOREVER but that was how she did it and I do not remember her ever having a jar that did not seal. She had 3 canners too though so who knows. I might be nuts here. LOL Ya'll take care now hear!
 
Leigh Tate
author & gardener
Posts: 1612
Location: Southeastern U.S. - Zone 7b
837
goat cat forest garden foraging chicken food preservation medical herbs writing solar wood heat homestead
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Nancy Swanson wrote:Thanks Leigh. I’m surprised you didn’t get some fails with the bone broth. Have you used them with meat or fish?


I was very pleased with no fails! I make the broth from the bones of whatever meats we eat, mostly chicken, muscovy, chicken, and pork. I freeze the bones, and then make a big pot of broth when I get a bunch. It's a mainstay of my cooking. I use it for soup, stew, gravy, and to replace water when I  make rice.

I think that, because they are loose during processing, stuff (grease, blueberry seeds etc,) can get around the rubber and prevent sealing.
Has anyone tried tightening them down like the regular lids?  Maybe exploding jars?


Good question! I'd be reluctant to experiment, lol. I think sometimes I've left them too tight because they don't need tightening when removed from the canner. I have no idea if or how this affects seal rate. On the other hand, I've loosened some too much before I put them in the canner. The jar jiggling during canning loosens the lids and when I open the canner the lid is off and there's a mess in the canner!

Even with regular lids I get occasional fails. So I'm okay with a few fails with the Tattlers as well. These just end up on the menu quicker. :) It would be interesting to know how many fails they had in the very early days of canning, when they used rubber rings and glass tops with flip bands on the jars. But I doubt that's something we'll ever know.
 
pollinator
Posts: 302
Location: South of Winona, Minnesota
62
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
We're new to Tattler lids and getting used to their quirks. I grew up canning with zinc lids with rubber rings and so the tightening after jars come out of the canner is what I learned. I still use my old jars for dry food storage as I can't get new rings and the zinc lids became deformed after years of use and they only seal on old jars that have wide shoulders where the ring seats. The rubber rings on the vintage jars is way thicker and doesn't squish or shift around. The Tattler lids/rings are so thin so they will work with regular screw bands. I wish I could buy the thicker rings, glass lids, and stainless steel rings and stop messing around with all this newer, wanabee stuff.
 
Posts: 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
My problem was after having a seal, weeks later I found the wide mouths unsealed.  Every batch I used both metal and Tatters bec of being a Tattled newbie.  Never a problem with the sealed jars with metal lids so I know it wasn't the food.  Hate losing food on the shelf because of not knowing the seal failed.
Susan
 
pioneer
Posts: 370
Location: Oregon 8b
90
monies dog forest garden fungi foraging homestead
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I've also been using Tattler's for the past 5-7 years. Never with meat, but with broth and pressure canned veggies. I've only had one failure to the best of my recollection. Just wipe the rim really clean, back off the lid a bit like they suggest, and re-tighten with a towel over the lid when they come out of the canner. I'd heard horror stories about people over-tightening them before I used them, so I've always been pretty anal about my process and never had a problem.
 
Posts: 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I have had the exact same problem with canning meat products. Everything else is good but I have high failure rates with meats. Someone told me I need to wipe the jar tops with vinegar before putting on the lids - to remove any fat. And keep the processing pressure consistent to prevent any product from boiling out. Haven’t tried that yet but I’m hoping that will make a difference.
 
passwords must contain 14 characters, a number, punctuation, a small bird, a bit of cheese and a tiny ad.
Greenhouse of the Future ebook - now free for a while
https://permies.com/goodies/greenhouse
reply
    Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic