the most permaculture solution for replacing laundry detergent

Here is where I am at now:

about a third of the time, water only

about a third of the time, a quarter of the laundry detergent that is recommended

about a third of the time, a splash of apple cider vinegar


I never mix detergent and apple cider vinegar because the detergent does its magic through the power of alkalinity.  And the apple cider vinegar does its magic through the power of acidity.  Mixing them would cancel their powers.  


Mathing this out, this means that I am currently using a twelfth of the detergent that other people are using.   I have been using oasis brand laundry detergent because it is safe for feeding to plants.  Recently some people suggested it might not be safe for plants.   I like the idea of finding something better.  Something shelf stable.


I feel like if my clothes might have a lot of oils or greases on them, then it is detergent day.  If anything might be stinky, then it is vinegar day.  


I suspect that I wash my clothes more than the average person.  Or, at least i wash t-shirts and undies more.  I ride a fresh t and fresh undies every day.  I end up tossing in a small load of laundry once a week.  I mention this because my overalls might rack up a bunch of stuff, but they go for a ride in the wash about once a month.  


Soapnuts and other saponin based solutions are nice.  But I feel like they are not shelf stable. Make soapy water and keep it in the fridge.  It lasts about a week.  I suppose if somebody has a series of cups on their washer for "wash" instead of "rinse" you could choose to put soap nuts in there.  Some people leave the soap nuts in with the clothes during the wash and rinse cycles - i don't wanna do that.  


I like the vinegar path.  I might even swap it out for citric acid.  Or maybe do both, and swap back and forth from time to time.  

But today I like the idea of talking about emulsifiers, or possibly surfactants.  Things to get oils and greases out of clothes.  Something better than the oasis brand stuff.  

has anybody tried washing clothes with only baking soda?

Only salt?

We use 'water only' frequently, especially summertime.

Otherwise I mix up a gallon of hot water with washing soda (3-4 cups?) and use a cup to 2 cups of that liquid in a load depending on what's in the load of wash and the size.

Washing soda won't dissolve well in cold water and that's all we use in the machine so liquiding first works for us.

We liked soap nuts but they got expensive.
I didn't like the smell of yucca root but it didn't linger in the clothes.
Have been intending to try ivy leaves as suggested here somewhere.

We don't use anything but water when the water is diverted to the gardens though.

When doing laundry by hand, we use olive oil soap. Just shave a little bit off the soap piece with a knife into warm water and slosh it around a bit so it dissolves. Works well, but I don't know how it'd work in a washing machine.

I do about half and half water-only and half-strength (half a TBS of powder per load) Charlie's Soap which is EPA Safer Choice certified, but I don't really know how to tell what solution is safer than another. We started buying it in five-gallon buckets that would last us for years about 20 years ago. I'll try vinegar and see what I think. I prefer vinegar to citric acid because I can make it myself.

I am about to try a small amount of borax and a splash of apple 🍎 cider vinegar wish me luck🍀🍀🍀

Usually use a combination of baking soda and salt if things are really bad 😂

I get eco-friendly laundry sheets.  I think the brand I started with was Earth Breeze, but they are a bit pricey.  Costco has even started to carry some sheets.  They are very easy to use, and the humidity doesn't seem to reconstitute them. Here's a page that compares a few brands:
https://www.thelaundryguru.net/best-laundry-sheets?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=ga_text_dg_tpv_core_broad_v2&tw_source=google&tw_adid=1450218186224&tw_campaign=44032987561&tw_kwdid=kwd-4062487600

paul wheaton wrote:has anybody tried washing clothes with only baking soda?

Only salt?

I used a mix of washing soda, baking soda, citric acid and a bar of soap. It is ok but after a week or so it is hard as a rock. I have been using oasis brand laundry detergent too and it is ok.

The recipe I used came from a book called  "Making Soap: 18 Luxurious Soaps to Make and Give Using Natural Ingredients" page 47.

paul wheaton wrote:  Some people leave the soap nuts in with the clothes during the wash and rinse cycles - i don't wanna do that.  

Slightly off topic, but an solution to the "botanical" soap snag. Also, a great way to save power, water and washing agents.
You could always swapout your automaric for a twin tub next time you replace your machine- machine itself is much cheaper to buy, consumes way less power and can use much less water than an automatic and you can use soap nuts just for the wash. The "cost" is more time. I have returned to having a "wash day". I use an eco friendly liquid soap (definitely  want to try ivy soap as soap nuts are expensive) and I wash 3 loads of clothes in the same water - towels/ linen/smalls, then T shirts/shorts/ winter thermals and finish off with jeans/overalls.The water is recyled back to the machine directly from the spinner. I actually get 4 washes out of 1 tub of water and soap as I throw in my dog blankets after doing my laundry. I have the option of emptying the machine into a mulch pit via the drain or bucket it and water my almond trees. This saves me using clean drinking water to deep water my trees in the summer.
Once I've washed all the clothes, I repeat the 1,2,3 (4) order using clean water for rinsing. If I do a double rinse (depends on the color of the first rinse) I use the rinse water for my next round of washing water.
Each wash cycle is 15 min. I rinse the clothes in a large large bucket and the water is returned to the bucket after each spin cycle (1min).  Occasionally I soak the 3rd load for a while in the tub before starting the cycle to help soften dirt build up.
I now have 2 twin tubs so I can do 4 people's entire weekly washing in under 2 hours. Yes, load size is smaller, but wash cycle is shorter and all the washing is hung out within 2 hours.

paul wheaton wrote:has anybody tried washing clothes with only baking soda?

Only salt?

We wash everything with only baking soda and a few drops of lemon oil. Comes out fresh and smelling nice!

Any stains are tackled in a citric acic bath and a good sun dry. Works well for us, but probably because anything which is actually dirty/muddy is rinsed before it makes it in the machine (top-loader).

I am a big fan of Charlie's Soap (which does not seem to be a bother in grey water irrigation channel "Laundry to Landscape" (https://www.greywatercorps.com/laundry-to-landscape) set of iris beds - or at least not yet... in the Pacific Northwest there is so much rain, and the gravely ash underneath the soil/plant layer drains a lot away so that may be a local benefit that helps it to work) . Also have used baking soda. Most of my clothes are white, and both of those tend to keep them mostly white in a don't-need-bleach sorta way. Also consistently using laundry enzymes (usually Puracy brand) on anything that is clearly a spot/smudge/grunge, and especially if oily, helps a lot.

Seems like salt might be rough on the fabric? Anybody having success with that?  Sailors wash clothes in seawater, then rinse in fresh water, so maybe the approach would be to get a similar salinity to the ocean? Maybe you permies who have a beach edge to your property can tell us what you've tried?

We use a bar of Zote soap, (about $2 a bar)  grated into 5 gallons of hot water, 1 C of Borax and 1 C of washing soda, and 50 drops of whatever essential oil you want.  Stir until it all dissolves.   Someone on YouTube used artificial butter essential oil, and raved about the scent.  Haven't tried it yet.  We've used peppermint, rosemary, lemon grass, sandalwood.  Everything comes out soft and fluffy even hanging on the line, no dryer.  It empties into a reed bed and hasn't affected the reed bed in any negative way or the worms in the reed bed.  Stores in large juice containers, does not spoil.  Use 1 cup for a medium load of laundry.

We have a rainwater cistern for house water and so our water is soft and easy on clothes and there is less need for laundry soap. For many decades we've been washing laundry with about a tablespoon per load of Dr. Bronner's Sal Suds. This is enough to get the dirt out and leaves a clean odor to the fabrics, which are hung outdoors year-round to dry.

What is the permie take on ozone laundry systems? Have never used one, all I know about it is from about a 5 minute google search after seeing an ad. Are they actually permie approved or are they just claiming to be “eco friendly” while really hiding something? I don’t have a grey water system, and I haven’t ever used the alternatives that some of you are suggesting. Maybe those are just as good or better.

From my quick google search, it looks like the main complaint is that they’re not spectacular on stains/farm-level dirty clothes, but even if you still have to use detergent on maybe your jeans, but t shirts, towels, bedding, socks etc can go through without, you’re avoiding a significant amount of nasty detergent stuff.