Beginners oil painting questions and how to oil paint without stink?

r ranson wrote:It seems that solvents are used a lot for underpainting to make it behave like watercolours.

Is there any reason I couldn't use watercolours?

Or if it needs to go darker, perhaps an ink wash?

You can use anything you want. There is a paint called duo which is all in one oil. Acrylic and watercolor. So it starts really thick like oil paints but they are water soluble, sorry I didn’t think of these before. The more water you add the thinner they get and the colors are really cool. I experiment all the time. I add paint to different glues to see what it does. I mix alcohol and watercolor inks. No rules no limits.

Can I make this myself? https://www.naturalpigments.ca/velazquez-medium-50ml.html

Finely ground calcite in bodied linseed oil. Use to extend paint without altering its consistency. Softer than Impasto Medium, makes colors slightly transparent allowing greater control over tints without whites. 

Velázquez Medium is an oil painting medium of finely ground calcite in bodied linseed oil. Use it to extend paint and alter its consistency, making oil colors 'long'* for finer detail and impastos. Softer than Impasto Medium, this flowing paste makes colors slightly transparent while allowing you to build impasted, thick applications of paint. When added to oil paint it does not alter the color temperature. It can be thinned with solvent or oil. Depending upon the proportion added to paint, it does not affect the drying time significantly.

Velázquez Medium does not contain stearates, solvents, driers or natural or synthetic resins, so it is safe to add to oil paint without the worry of cracking or delaminating.

*Long refers to the consistency of paint that displays tall peaks when a palette knife is pressed to its surface and lifted. Long paint is also described as being a "ropy" and refers to a stringy quality, like that of honey. Paint that behaves in this way is said to have long rheology. Short rheology refers to paint that exhibits a more buttery consistency, typical of most commercial oil paint. Rheology is the study of how substances flow, such as liquids and soft solids that flow rather than deform elastically.

I've seen recipes for something like this in the book The New Oil Painting (or something like that title about modern methods for toxic free oil painting)  but most of the recipes are for chalk and refined linseed oil.

I guess I start by finding out what bodied linseed oil means.  Do you think it’s stand oil?

Do you think this is the powder?

https://opusartsupplies.com/products/kama-calcium-carbonate-chalk-227g-227g?_pos=2&_psq=Calcium+Carbonate&_ss=e&_v=1.0


...

trying to figure out if it would be cheaper to buy it or not.  The shipping on that one item is pretty high, so might be better to make it.  Then I can make it as required.  

...
scrap that idea, they don't have any locally.  

Had a big ahha moment today.

Been trying to figure out how to make a ground colour without solvent or acrylic paint for ages now.  It's usually done with a wash of solvent and oil paint or tinted acrylic gesso.  Neither of which I want to use.

This morning,  I started a painting and after getting up for some coffee,  discovered the drawing part was all wrong.  In frustration,  I vigorously took a rag and wiped out what I had painted so far and it left a very thin layer of mostly yellow ochre behind that will make a lovely background for a new and improved painting.

So it is possible to create a ground in oil paint while painting toxic free.

Why didn't I see this earlier?

Class is going really well.  I'm learning a lot.  And boy, is there a lot to learn.  This isn't going to get me very far so I need to do a lot of home practice to fully understand what the teacher says.

So, of course, I'm painting chickens.



I accidently got these little 4" square panels (mumblemumble stupidmetricsystem) so I figure 2 hours seems like a good time limit to try painting a tiny chicken.  

2 hours is a struggle for me to fill in the canvas with paint.  There's a lot of figuring out mixing and how the paints interact.  But for my first oil painting chicken and third oil painting ever, I'm kind of chuffed.

It's the middle of summer and so cold I've lit the fire.  Part of me says this would burn so nice.

Part of me says keep painting.   It can't get any worse.

Who should I listen to?   Does it really look enough like a chicken to be worth keeping on?

(I know, it was a joke.  They are my old work shoes)

I get the slowest drying paint I can find,  and still, life gets in the way of painting.

It's dried too much to keep going,  but it is starting to look like shoes.

Hopefully the next layer I can get the chicken in there and bring up the highlights more.  I want to try stumbling or whatever it's called to make the mud on the shoes.

Painting from a photo seems to be pretty easy.  

See.  One hour chickens.  



I can do that and get a result that is fairly good for someone who's been painting in oils for under two months, but leaves enough room for improvement that I'm happy.

But how do I paint from life?

I see the shapes and shadows and colours.  I put them on the canvas.  And then, I have to adjust them so they look like the things.  For example:

When I was painting, it was a different angle and lighting. The camera sees things different.

The leaves I had to paint the back ones less distinct and in a yellow-ochre based green (instead of the bright yellow green) so they would be 'behind' the front ones in the painting.  

Plus I have some vision distortion in how I perceive 3d objects close to me.  So that caused some problems, especially with the shapes of things.

But even still, I kind of expected better.

Four days alla prima (wet in wet) and I'm not happy with this at all.  Did I choose the wrong thing to paint?  Should I go back to painting onions and garlic and one item paintings?  Or maybe there's some skill I'm missing to see where it went wrong and where my poetic license was okay to use (like the size of the mug)?




I'm just feeling defeated by this paint today.  
Maybe I'm just fishing for someone to say 'your coffee plant looks much better than you think.  Give it a few days and look at it again.  you'll see."

But I tell you, this oil painting lark is way harder than watercolours.  I feel the need to conquer it.  Getting a bit worried I can't.  

Your coffee plant looks much better than you think.  Give it a few days and look at it again.  You'll see. I'm not just saying that. It's true. If you go into a room full of people who are all painting the exact same thing, each painting will be different, even when the goal is 'total realism'. Everyone sees things differently than everyone else, and often, giving one's self the gift of time will help you see it differently, too.

Thanks.

I had someone help show me where I went wrong with the coffee bag pot.  It's part of that perception issue I'm trying to fix - my rectangles end up wonky and I'm convinced the lines are parallel.  I fixed that and I don't hate the painting as much.

Is there  some sort of tool I can buy to help training my vision into seeing parallels lines and angles properly?


Time to hide it for a week or two and see if I still hate it after that.  

I know I don't want to be a camera, but I also want to share what I see in a way that people can see what I see.  That doesn't make sense when I try to write it out.  

Today's question is about Grisaille.

Using burnt umber and zinc white to make the underpainting.  With the idea of glazing later.



What am I supposed to do about the background?   Does it get the values just blocked out or do I do all the details or...?

This is as far as I managed to get before the paint got too sticky to blend.



I added walnut alkyd to the paint and I'm always shocked how quickly it gets tacky on the canvas, but weirded out how moist it stays on the palette.  

In a few days, I'll do a bit of dry brushing with white to lighten the goose a bit more before I add colour.

help

It sprung a leak!  Will it die?

Long story.  

So I seem to go through a lot of white, and finding a student grade brand I like for everyday studies, I bought a 200ml tube (compared to the normal 17ml tube) of white paint.  It's a bit big and since I have used enough I thought to put a key thingy in the paint to wind it up from the back.  Only...

... the metal this tube is made from is far less strong than the others.  I wore several holes in it trying to fold it up.

I put some gaffer tape (all I had to hand) on it for now, but I don't know if this is a serious issue (air plus unused oil paint is not good, right?).  

How serious is this?  Is my paint lost?  Can it be saved?  

Can you transfer it to another container?

Carla Burke wrote:Can you transfer it to another container?

Thinking about this.

Plastic allows too much oxygen transfer, so it would have to be glass or metal.  If it's a jar, each time I open it, there is air getting in.  

I might be able to buy new empty tubes, but would take a few weeks to get here.  But not a bad thing to keep on hand.

I suspect even with the rips, the current tube might provide less air exposure than another container.

Great points! How about some metal tape?

Carla Burke wrote:Great points! How about some metal tape?

They make tape out of metal?

They do. I have some, in my workshop.

Interesting solvent free traditional paint mediums using various oils and extenders like calcite.

I just wanted to share a painting I found online that used olive oil in the paint. The artist says that the paint smelled like olives, which sounds nice!

Olive
by Michal Plis
Medium: Oil on canvas board & olive oil.
Date: 1997

https://cara.app/post/5fd232b0-5792-4f79-b665-69a21bbfaa51

I'm going to admit, I haven't read most responses...

to OP: Use gamblin (gamsol, gamvar, galklyd) products. They're safer for you, low scent, and will age better than any other 'thinner' or 'medium' you can possibly buy or make to use.
       
Linseed oil is a no no. 1, it won't clean your brushes. 2. it will yellow the painting.

To R-
 You're referring to one of two methods of oil painting. Indirect. No, it won't be like watercolour though.
  In indirect painting you will be layering oil super thinned by medium. What is actually happening is that the pigment is thinned and spread, resulting in a translucent layer. Layer on layer it can have quite the effect. But it takes a long time to cure, and may crack. Most mentors will advise to simply forgo medium and do a more 'direct' method of painting.

  Oil paint and watercolor will not play nicely together. They have different carriers.

It's been a while since I started this thread and learned a lot more than I imagined about oil painting.

gamblin (gamsol, gamvar, galklyd) products. They're safer for you, low scent

The safety data sheet for these products as well as local WorkSafe and HAZMAT requirements makes me feel they are way too toxic for my lifestyle.   Most products this toxic require having bad smells added to act as a warning,  and the advise is that not having scents increases exposure,  and thus health risks.  So they require extra precautions than working with something stinky like turpentine.  

As for linseed oil yellowing.   That's an interesting one.  It's the main oil used for centuries for making oil paint.  There were mild concerns about it yellowing in the Renaissance but this was in locations with poor lighting.  Linseed will yellow when stored in the dark, but unyellow in a few weeks when exposed to the light again. When reexposed to indirect light, these old masterpieces restore to brilliant white the yellow varnish is removed.   Indicating that the varnish and darkness were the major cause of yellowing.

It's not until solvents become a big part of oil painting in the late 1800s onwards that we see a lot of yellowing of linseed oil that isn't reversible.   This could also be connected with some of the modern pigments like zinc and titanium but we don't know enough about how the mineral soaps form yet to know for certain.  Rublev's website (natural pigments) has a lot of good articles on the science behind this.

The book The New Oil Painting is enlightening understanding the history of solvent use in oil painting and how it wasn't common until the turn of the last century.   And how not to need it.  

I believe the point being made is, any rags that have hardening oils can combust, if waded up, or if kept in a confined space so the heat resulting from the oil reacting with oxygen can't escape.  Many a studio, woodshop or remodel project has burned because hardening-oil soaked rags were not dealt with properly.

I always spread my rags out so all the heat can dissipate easily.  

Doing this with some baby diaper rags. I discovered you can shape the oil soaked cloth and they will retain the shape when the oil hardens (vs "drying," as with solvent based finishes).  When hard, they make cool picture "canvasses" (for someone more talented than me).

Jenny Wright wrote:

r ranson wrote:

The painting class starts in a few weeks.  I have all my supplies ready but the rags and I'm not sure what to get.  Synthetic would have less chance of combustion, but cotton rags I can toss in the wood stove.  

I'm worried about you burning paint rags in the stove. What if your paints have toxic pigments in them that would be released in the air when you burn them?

The class sounds fun. I hope you post your paintings. I enjoy seeing your art.

Looking into the question why linseed oil is considered yellowing now, when paintings hundreds of years old still look white when cleaned.

Found this.  Still looking for collaborative evidence, but it matches well with history of painting books from the library.   Matches poorly with how to paint books from the library.

https://web.archive.org/web/20160315005852/http://www.tadspurgeon.com/soundpractice.php?page=soundpractice

yellowing
     
     There are several different potential causes of yellowing in a painting. While lower quality linseed oil in commercial paint is on the wane, this has been a major cause of darkening in 20th Century paintings, and it is unfortunately possible to see this readily in major museums. Another standard culprit is turpentine which has been oxidized by exposure to light and air, the residue of this can yellow badly and affect everything it was a part of. If used, turpentine should always be high quality, and protected from both light and air by being stored in small size amber glass bottles. A thin application of a given oil may dry without yellowing, while a thick application of the same oil will darken. Oil which has been preheated or aged in the light has less of a tendency to yellow than the same oil, new and raw. Humidity is another factor often overlooked. An oil which dries without darkening in low humidity may dry with significant darkening in high humidity. In some climates, a dehumidifier is a studio necessity during the summer. Setting paintings to dry in moderate sunlight is a traditional remedy for short-term darkening, north or east windows work well for this. Paintings will darken naturally if not exposed to enough sunlight, this is especially true of work made with linseed oil. However, subsequent exposure to light will brighten the work once again. The darkening associated with resins is longer term. It is wise not to use a hard resin such as amber or copal in any but the most minimal amounts, and never as a final varnish. It is wise to keep all resin use to an absolute minimum: oil paint is so sensitive and these materials so strong that between 2-5% of a hard resin varnish in the paint layer will make a significant rheological and optical difference. This is enough. More may well be inviting trouble down the line. Oil paintings made with permanent pigments do not ever get lighter or brighter over time. Painting on a white ground is therefore a good idea, as is painting the values "up" somewhat, especially when working in layers. It is much easier to continue to darken a painting, than to lighten it once again reliably.

     It is becoming more common for painters to pay attention to conservators, and this is by and large a good development. But sometimes conservators become obsessed by yellowing. In oil painting, there is a profound difference between normal, visually comfortable mellowing and an overall darkening which is fact disfigures the work. It is important to keep in mind that the dire warning of the conservator about a material "yellowing over time" might be a little overstated, some conservators simply like to get the attention of painters. Conversely, it's possible to see before and after photos of paintings where old varnish was removed which show that the painting clearly benefited from the warming effect of the varnish layer—as the painter may well have intended. So, the issue is to know one's materials. A lower chroma earth color palette, such as used by Rembrandt or Velasquez, can be used safely with quality linseed oil, as was in fact the case for both painters. Raphael's higher chroma palette may well have benefited from his use of walnut oil. The more the color depends on a cool, neutral light, the more the color is focused on pure color in the midtones, the more the painter needs to be concerned with yellowing in the choice of the oil. However, as will be seen below, it is possible to paint in such a way that the relative warm-cool dimensional distance of the painting remains constant or in fact increases as the painting ages.

In this blog, he also talks (to excess) about how the oil is processed now.  He (almost to the point of ranting - but in a good way) about the "refined" linseed oil of today being food processed which removes the drying oils.  What's left is more prone to yellowing than a more traditional cold pressed, hand cleaned linseed oil.

More about solvent and why it's not needed nor recommend in oil painting.

Although I'm surprised he doesn't go into the archival issues and underbounding.

https://web.archive.org/web/20160315005852/http://www.tadspurgeon.com/soundpractice.php?page=soundpractice

solvent
     
     Solvent is unfortunately often considered necessary to oil painting when in fact is is only necessary to the type of painting which uses a soft resin medium such as damar. Older painters kept their brushes in oil, not solvent, and the use of solvent by Rubens was discussed by De Mayerne as an innovation. Long term solvent use in an unventilated studio leads to significant health issues, Denmark has in fact labeled this "Painter's Dementia." Solvent should always be kept in small amber glass bottles which are full, protecting the contents from both light and air. This is especially crucial with turpentine to avoid yellowing, it may be best to forego turpentine altogether at this point. Both the traditional putty medium and the more recent silica gel medium offer a variety of solvent-free painting options. Solvent is also unnecessary when using a small amount of hard resin varnish in the medium or a fused soft resin and oil medium. Odorless mineral spirits is sometimes promoted as "safe," but it is still evaporating into the room. In other words, a solvent that works is a solvent to beware of. Sometimes citrus thinner or spike lavender are promoted as "healthy" because they don't tend to give people headaches, but this is irresponsible and dangerous: a solvent that works is still a solvent to beware of, and both of these have very high aromatic content. If you find surprisingly inexpensive spike, possibly in Brooklyn, it has been cut with mineral spirits.



safety note
     
     Some people who really, truly, should know better are marketing spike lavender as "non-toxic" or "safe." But there is no such thing as a safe solvent that works, this is an oxymoron. Spike lavender as an incredibly high amount of volatile organic compounds (VOC) and these are exactly what can cause health issues over time. To make matters worse, spike lavender is often marketed in clear glass bottles. Exposure to light and air oxidizes all solvents and leads to darkening over time. So please be aware and avoid products by companies that are not nearly as evolved or responsible as their marketing strategy makes them appear.

About to glaze this which was painted in burnt umber and zinc titanium white mix.  No medium. Walnut alkyd.

I mixed up some walnut and linseed stand oil and applied a thin coat of this oil to "couche" or "oil out" the painting.  This is supposed to make it so the paint glides on easily and blends well. The stand oil is for slower drying and self leveling paint.  I mush it in well to the painting.

I go and make coffee and when I come back, there are suddenly dry patches.  I use the brush to smooth out the oil, and after 20 seconds, it looks like this again.  The oil has beaded up on the canvas.

Why?

I'm going to keep going because I already mixed the paint, but I would love to know what's up for the future.   I've never had oiling out do this before.

Ahhhh.... the paint is doing the same thing.

Wiped it down before painting. Less of an ussue, but over time, it beaded up.

It's either the stand oil or the surface. Mixed in some of the walnut/stand mix to the paint at about 10 to 15%.  Because a book told me to.

Punishment for staying inside instead of mucking out the goose house?

This means war!

Scrap of canvas paper.

Top four squares are paint as mixed and applied to my painting.

First bar, medium, then paint applied.

Bottom bar, medium applied heavy with whatever paint was left in my brush

We shall see if it beads up after i drink my now cold coffee.

Well, it's not the paint.

I found this https://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/topic/help-beading-oil-paint-over-prior-painting/

Beading occurs quite routinely, especially if the underlayer is very dry.  Usually, the drier it is, the more likely beading is to occur.  It happens to me a lot.  It’s not a “problem”–but merely a “condition”.  ...

You must break the surface tension that causes the beading.  I never resort to any substance that “isn’t oil paint related” for doing this, such as alcohol, or the like.  I just rub a thin application of my painting medium onto the surface upon which I intend to apply paint, and I spread it out very thinly, until it appears nearly non-existent.

The “secret” is really in the rubbing, because that is what breaks the surface tension.  The Oil of Spike Lavender will “bite into” the surface, and my natural resin makes for improved adhesion of the fresh paint onto the surface.

Beading does not need to be a problem, and it can be solved quite easily.

The underpainting is from the summer, so maybe it's just too dry?

I wiped off today's paint with a cloth.  Going to wipe it some more and walk away for an hour or so.  Try to think what I have in the house so I don't need to sand.  I like the texture in the underpainting.

Rubbed everything off with a rag.  Then I did a drastic thing because I panicked.  I have some distilled turpentine because it seemed the least ecologically damaging (basically distilled tree juice) and most stinky (stink makes a warning).  Took my painting outside and give it a gentle wipe with the smallest amount of stinky juice possible.  It wasn't much fun.

But the paint took.  Finally.

And I had run out of energy and time so I only did a light layer of part of the painting.  Tomorrow and the next day is super-busy, so it's unlikely I'll be able to finish it before it tacks up.  But I learned stuff and can let it dry for next time.  

And I also learned that I need to be more careful of what I use in the first layer.  I'm surprised alkid had this effect and I need to do more experimenting.  

I've been doing a lot of indirect painting and glazing experiments lately for a few reasons.

1. I'm excessively frugal and this means I can use cheap paints for most of the work, and tiniest amount of more expensive paint at the end to add colour.

2. I can achieve effects I cannot with direct painting.

3. It's so much easier than direct (all at once) painting.  I'm what they call a valueist in that I see the darkness and lightness of objects more than the colour.  The colour of reality isn't that interesting to me, but rather, the colour I feel can influence the paints I choose to use.  

What makes this so easy is that it divides the painting into three distinctly different steps. Three different layers.  Drawing.  Values.  Colour.  I have trouble with the first one and last one, so it's nice not to have to do all three together.

That said, there is a lot to learn about direct painting.  So I try to do some while I wait for my layered paintings to dry.  

Direct painting often called single layer, all at once, alla prima, wet in wet, and lots of other words.

And then there is this mix style of indirect painting where we block in the values in one layer, but ignore the details.  Then the next layer we do most of the work, with the possibility of coming back for a third pass for fine details and repairs.

the original grey layer is made with Pallet Grey - a colour made from all the leftover paint from the last painting session mixed together into one muddy colour.  It's always different but always wonderful.  So long as there's no medium or oil added to the palette when painting, it works fine as an underlayer.  





The top hen is by far my favourite so far.  I took some liberties and lightened the face a bit so we could see the details.



The peeping cockerel needs some more work with the third pass.

This mixed style is something I want to explore more.  

Rublev's take on how to clean brushes safely and without toxins.