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bitcoin

 
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I am open to digging out old gear and firing it up to do mining and see how it goes.  But at $20 per month, it really isn't worth the effort. I'm looking forward to hearing how it goes for you.

 
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Daron. I went into minergate using your link but see no way to mine. Any help is appreciated
 
wayne fajkus
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I switched to Paul's links. Im making some headway.
 
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With brominer i was up to .0000004 coin. I checked later and it was at 0. The stop button was still there so i assume it was still mining. Do you have to collect it to keep it. If so, how? I did get a wallet number from coin purse. It was copy/pasted in.


Also, i didn't complete the bank info on coin purse. Is that only needed to buy and sell?
 
paul wheaton
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Lots of stuff I don't have an answer for.  I fiddled with it for one evening.  
 
wayne fajkus
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I let it run on my phone all night, but must have had an internet blip that stopped it.

I had .ooooo1 when i went to bed, had .0000017 when i woke up.

Reading about mining, the energy use of the device exceeds the value of the coins. That gives the reasoning from paul to use it as a heat source-recoup that investment.

I also read that the mining gets harder over time. Getting coins next month will take more computing power than this month. This continues on and on

 
paul wheaton
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My understanding is that that particular site will switch to a cryptocurrency that has the best coin offering at the moment.  When I did it, it was some coin that was worth $350 per coin.  So, your mining created .0000017 of that coin, so about 0.06 cents.   Really awful.  

My computer is certainly not the most powerful, but after eight hours, it said I had about 20 cents.   Still pretty awful.   i very much doubt that that 8 hours used 20 cents of power.  A quick bit of math in my head and it was definitely less than a dime in power.  

But again:  if a person is using electric heat, then a dime of power to the laptop made the laptop generate enough heat so that it saved a dime in heat from an electric heater.  So, in a way, it was free electricity.


It sounds like if you run that phone 24x7 it would take a full week to generate one cent.  My guess is that there is something wonky and if you try again, you might get it up to something like two cents a day.  But still probably not worth it.  It would be easier to simply put ten bucks into your favorite coin and see what it does.  


And that's another way to look at it.   I could fiddle with that thing on phones and old computers and whatever for a month.   At the end of the month I might have $30 racked up in bitcoin.   And maybe it grows a thousand-fold in a year or two.  But the real question is:   rather than spend a few hours and add hundreds of hours of wear on this old gear, would I be ahead of the came if I did other stuff and then put $30 in bitcoin.  ??






 
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Claim free coins here: bitcoinHEX.

This guy, Richard Heart, is building an interest feature into his bitcoin fork. Check it out, and please use the referral link above:)
 
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Paul, do you have a Crypto wallet?  I want to donate crypto for the podcast.
 
paul wheaton
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Josh Rocky wrote:Paul, do you have a Crypto wallet?  I want to donate crypto for the podcast.



My bitcoin thing-a-ma-bob is 177pNU2a9iCpUXQwXX9EbtA2UwZpgeqcMT

I'm looking forward to another bitcoin transaction.  

What do you have in mind?

 
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Life got busy the past few years and I just stumbled upon your podcast again.  I have a bitof crypto and want to donate some your way for the podcast.  I really enjoyed it years ago when you were buying the lab and would love to support it now so I can catch up on what's going on that way.
 
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paul wheaton wrote:

My bitcoin thing-a-ma-bob is 177pNU2a9iCpUXQwXX9EbtA2UwZpgeqcMT

I'm looking forward to another bitcoin transaction.  



Now you have for another, it sent about an hour ago.  Have a great weekend!
 
paul wheaton
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I have my stuff at coinbase, and coinbase is being stupid.  I have put in a help request.
 
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Sorry Paul, coinbase is especially ass-pain-ish when you actually need to use it.  Works great when you're just messing around.
 
paul wheaton
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their site always has terrible bugs.
 
paul wheaton
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Josh!

I'm in! I see it!  That brings me just a few hundred bucks shy of a full bitcoin!  Thanks!

So exciting!
 
Josh Rocky
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Awesome, glad to hear it was successful.  Have a great weekend Paul.  
 
paul wheaton
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Bitcoin is now worth more than $13,000.  

To talk about bitcoin, I needed smaller pieces.  Today I learned about

  bitcent (0.01 bitcoin) (current value of $130)

  bit (0.000001 bitcoin) (current value of $0.0130)

  satoshi (0.00000001 bitcoin) (current value of $0.000130)

There are people that think that bitcoin will go past $100,000 in the next year.  And past a million dollars in five years.  So I guess a "bit" will be worth about a buck.  ??

Also, paypal announced that they will be supporting bitcoin soon, so people will be able to buy my stuff with bitcoin - since all of my stuff is currently paid for with paypal.

 
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i am surprised that you are on board with bitcoins considering the electricity required
 
paul wheaton
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M. Phelps wrote:i am surprised that you are on board with bitcoins considering the electricity required



The electricity required for a transaction is very low.  So low it is trivial.

The electricity to mine a bitcoin is large.  As with most things, this can be done in a way that heats your home in the winter (instead of using electric heat).  

What is the amount of energy tied up in paper money and metal coins?

 
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good point with the home heating...
i will never be on board with bitcoins
i have no money to invest in it anyways
i will "invest" in building my 4season greenhouse

since i am speaking directly with you i would like to say
i appreciate the forum and strive to be like you all
 
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I would be interested to see what other currencies are expending or draining from the electricity grid.  According to this article,  It is estimated that Bitcoin uses more energy than switzerland  a lot of this is due to the fact that it uses the random network of devices the world over to power it's transactions.  I like the UK tea kettle comparison, as well as the stat about the energy wasted by always-on electronic devices in the U.S. in this quote from the article:

  Currently, the CBECI says the global Bitcoin network is consuming more than seven gigwatts of electricity. Over the course of a year that’s equal to around 64 TWh or terawatt hours of energy consumption. That’s more than the country of Switzerland uses over the same time period (58 TWh per year), but less than Colombia (68 TWh per year).
The average yearly energy consumption of the Bitcoin network exceeds that of the entire nation of Switzerland. Source: CBECI

It means Bitcoin accounts for roughly 0.25 percent of the world’s entire electricity consumption. That’s as much energy as all the tea kettles in the UK use over 11 years. It also means that the electricity wasted each year by always-on but inactive electronic devices in the US could power the Bitcoin network four times over.

“We want to use comparisons that set the narrative,” one of the co-creators of the CBECI, Michel Rauchs, told BBC News. ”Visitors to the website can make up their own mind as to whether it seems large or small.”

It’s well established that Bitcoin requires a huge amount of electricity, used by miners around the world running the computer hardware necessary to maintain the network and validate payments. But it’s also worth remembering these figures are very much estimates.

 
paul wheaton
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How much energy is currently expended for mining gold and silver?

How much energy is consumed to mint coins?

The thing is:  if I do zero mining, and I do a dozen bitcoin transactions a day for ten years - my energy footprint probably doesn't even add up to a nickel.  

But if you run a bunch of computers to do the calculations to find a bitcoin that has not yet been found, then you get a bitcoin worth more than $10,000 but it may have cost you $7000 worth of electricity.   And if somebody replaces their electric heater with a few computers looking for bitcoin, then after a few winters they might get a new bitcoin making all that electricity use a wash.

If we are going to have this conversation, I think a better question to ask is:   how much electricity is used, in the world, for electric heat that is NOT used for bitcoin mining?  My guess is that it is 1000 times more.   So why the fuck are we talking about the electrical footprint of bitcoin as if it is more important than talking about rocket mass heaters?  Unless, of course, there is somebody that is hell bent on keeping people from jumping on bitcoin and really scraping the bottom of the barrel of cheap excuses to keep people away.  And they make huge money keeping people away from bitcoin - so huge that they are willing to dump billions into bitcoin FUD articles.



 
Roberto pokachinni
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Not to be a naysayer. with my last post.  I think that any currency is going to have flaws and any amount that we can gain independence from the banking system, in general, is a good step if only to set precedence and move things in another direction that is not built on usury and greed.

Also, the people involved in bitcoin are, in my opinion, often worth interacting with.  At least in my opinion from experience.  They are, however often staunchly against using other currencies.  The bonus for permies is that it gains the site the potential to be partially funded by people who pretty much solely use this method of transaction and thus would be unable to buy pie or fund Kickstarter unless Paul set up an account.

Good on you Paul, for putting the energy into trying to figure this out.

I do have a friend who is very interested, knowledgeable, and has earned a fair bit of money from Bitcoin by getting into it early on, mining, and investing in it.  He also dabbles in other crypto-currencies.   If you are interested in more in-depth information, I could maybe get him involved in this thread.

He actually does quite a bit of permacultural stuff at his place too!
 
Roberto pokachinni
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They weren't talking in that article about bitcoin mining being the energy drain, but bitcoin miners doing the international computer networking necessary for the transactions and verification/validation.  

From within the already done quote above:

sed by miners around the world running the computer hardware necessary to maintain the network and validate payments.  



Not mining.  The miners doing the transactions.
 
paul wheaton
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Let's suppose that I wanted to do something today like:  everybody that sends me $50 in bitcoin gets something with a $100 value.   And then I got five payments - how do I go about doing this in such a way that I can tell who sent what?  I suppose the five people could post publicly in this thread what their bitcoin ID is.  Or send me an email.  And then I need to match bitcoin ID stuff with accounts.   A bit of work.  

Is this it?  Or is there a simpler way?
 
Roberto pokachinni
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I'm not the guy to answer that.  I'll try to get my friend to join permies and this thread.  
 
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It looks to me that there is no way to attach user defined data (to prove which payment it is) to a transaction.
As all transactions are public, anyone can claim to have made any transaction.

The only safe way that I see would be to create a wallet per user (that wants to pay with bitcoin). Then you can tell the user to transfer X to that wallet and once enough has arrived, it counts as paid.
 
paul wheaton
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I've been thinking that bitcoin will struggle to get past $20,000 because a lot of people bought bitcoin at a lower amount and they set up auto-sell stuff at $20,000.  My guess is that all of those people that did that are regretting it now.
 
paul wheaton
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First:  yay, bitcoin touched $28,000!


I got an email today that I think is spam or some sort of phishing.   Subject line is "payment received" and inside "A payment has been received into your Blockchain Wallet. To view the details of your transaction, click the link below: Log In"  

My bitcoin stuff is set up at coinbase, and this has no mention of coinbase.

Safe to say that this is spam, right?
 
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paul wheaton wrote:My bitcoin stuff is set up at coinbase, and this has no mention of coinbase.

Safe to say that this is spam, right?



Yes, sounds like it, especially if you've never had any other wallets than on Coinbase. If you're curious though you could copy the link and open it in an incognito/private browser window and see where it takes you.
 
paul wheaton
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Erick Havel wrote:

paul wheaton wrote:My bitcoin stuff is set up at coinbase, and this has no mention of coinbase.

Safe to say that this is spam, right?



Yes, sounds like it, especially if you've never had any other wallets than on Coinbase. If you're curious though you could copy the link and open it in an incognito/private browser window and see where it takes you.



They are asking for my wallet id and password.  :)

And the domain name is a mess.

I'm gonna mark it as spam.

Thanks!
 
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paul wheaton wrote:I got an email today...



Cell phone wallets can be hacked the easiest. Don’t think that free bitcoin is floating around to claim.

Some user information (not passwords) has been hacked in the last year (example: hardware wallet company Ledger).

Persons proving they sent bitcoin to Permies: there is a thing called “signatures”. Some wallets can do signatures, but it would be another step for you. You might think about using Ethereum instead. If you use Ethereum, the gas price to send and the time waiting to transact will be smaller; then, you can request two amounts that add up to your total. (Example: Joe sends a small amount to start interacting with you. Then you say, “send .05, and .02 ETH separately to prove you are the buyer.” Also, with Ethereum, there is the capability of attaching a message.

Now that I wrote that, I like the idea of preregistration with an Ethereum wallet. The user can send you a small amount at your request to initiate registering their wallet to permies data bank. Most people into crypto currencies have small amounts in each of their wallets for future gas needs, so, asking someone to spend a little gas isn't a big deal - especially when market prices are rising. On the same thread, Bitcoin is slow and fees are high. Allow people in the crypto market to hold their bitcoin like gold, and spend their Ethereum like currency.

Lastly, I would like to inform everyone that I made a HOW TO pdf and placed it in the digital market last week.

https://permies.com/t/153097f35/ENTER-CRYPTO

It has a 40% affiliate payout as well.
 
paul wheaton
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paul wheaton wrote:bitcoin touched $28,000!



Six days later and bitcoin is at $32,000

 
paul wheaton
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Now past $52,000
 
paul wheaton
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Current prices for upcoming events:

$1650 PTJ
$2600 PTJ+PDC
$2400 PTJ+SKIP
$3200 PTJ+PDC+SKIP

For the next few days, if paid for with bitcoin:

$1200 PTJ
$2000 PTJ+PDC
$1800 PTJ+SKIP
$2500 PTJ+PDC+SKIP

My bitcoin thing-a-ma-bob is 177pNU2a9iCpUXQwXX9EbtA2UwZpgeqcMT



 
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paul wheaton wrote:Current prices for upcoming events:

$1650 PTJ
$2600 PTJ+PDC
$2400 PTJ+SKIP
$3200 PTJ+PDC+SKIP

For the next few days, if paid for with bitcoin:

$1200 PTJ
$2000 PTJ+PDC
$1800 PTJ+SKIP
$2500 PTJ+PDC+SKIP

My bitcoin thing-a-ma-bob is 177pNU2a9iCpUXQwXX9EbtA2UwZpgeqcMT





Is this offer still open, Paul?
 
paul wheaton
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Yup!
 
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Hi Paul, in my opinion, you might want to consider setting up cold storage and receiving payments there instead of on an exchange. Exodus is a great application for this, it is cross platform and it works with tons of different cryptos. It also has it's own exchange (although the rates are not as good as what you would get on an exchange, they would still be much less than bitcoin transaction fees). This would allow you to transact with most cryptos and store them off the exchange where you can control your own private keys and not run the risk of losing everything if the exchange gets hacked. There are a number of other wallets you can use for cold storage, but exodus is just one that I've been using for a while and it works really well. As for exchanges, I got fed up with coinbase years ago, I currently use Kraken. WRT taxes, there is a recent Unchained podcast that does a good job at explaining US crypto taxes for 2020.
 
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Hey Paul, I agree with Ryan, it is a good idea to use a locally installed wallet... Exodus is also my wallet of choice, since it is easy to use...
- Download it from https://www.exodus.com/ (used to be https://www.exodus.io/, but they recently changed it...)
- Install it on your PC
- Set a password (a goot one!) This protects your Wallet on your PC (If it does not ask you for a password on your first start, you can do all this from Settings/Backup)
- Write down your recovery phrase - Twice and by hand! Do not store this in a file on your PC!! This is how you can restore your wallet, and everything that was in it ;), should your PC crash or you forget your password... You can also use this prase to setup your wallet on a secondary PC... Again: Be careful: Everybody who gains access to these words will gain access to your wallet!!!

That's it you're done... just click on one of the cryptos and then on "receive", and it will show you the address people can send crypto to...

Hope that helps, cheers, Tobi
 
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