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solar panels and dirty electricity  RSS feed

 
John Saltveit
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I recently read a book by Samuel Milham, a doctor who worked in public health for 40 years.  He was concerned about dirty electricity, and the book is in fact called, "Dirty Electricity".  I do believe that solar is going to be a large part of the electricity solution in the future, but we are waiting on this step until we figure out the size of the effect on us.  Many people are concerned about cellular phones in the ear for long periods of time and Electro Magnetic Radiation.  There are filters for the dirty electricity, but in some cases, they don't really solve the problem. I would be interested to see how others on this list have figured out how to avoid the problems of EMR in their lives or in their solar panels.  Smart meters apparently have caused dirty electricity and the problem with the solar panels is not in the panels themselves, but when the DC from the panel is converted back into AC. 
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John S
PDX OR




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Preview YouTube video Michael Schwaebe presentation on Dirty Electricity

Michael Schwaebe presentation on Dirty Electricity
Preview YouTube video Dr. Mercola and Dr. Milham on Dirty Electricity (Full Interview)

Dr. Mercola and Dr. Milham on Dirty Electricity (Full Interview)
 
Roy Hinkley
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Any wire carrying AC current is going to have that magnetic field around the wire. No getting around it. It decreases quickly with distance so don't have wires running through the walls by your head when you sleep, don't use electric blankets..... that kind of thing.
Panels don't have anything to do with it, that's DC. Only downstream of the AC inverter.
 
John Saltveit
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These guys are electrical engineers, but I'm not.  The problem is the transient electricity that is created when the DC is changed into AC.  It's EMR:  a similar problem to the issues that many teachers have had with fluorescent lights and people puting cell phones up to their ear for hours.  They measure the dirty electricity and have filters for some of it.   He said he has never seen a solar panel on a house that did not have problematic dirty electricity.  We have waited on our panels until we figure out this problem.
John S
PDX OR
 
Steve Farmer
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How is what these guys are describing "dirty". Meanwhile, while you re waiting for clarity on this before deciding to get your solar panels, how "dirty" is your current supply? Electromagnetic waves are produced by a change in charge (a change in voltage produces a change in charge), regardless of whether its varying DC, a perfect sinewave AC or a more irregular wave. If you actually worry about this, then be more concerned about how much AC electricity is being drawn than what the wave looks like. So using LEDs vs Halogen will reduce your exposure to EMR by a factor of 5 or so, as it draws less AC.

Additionally, as noted by a previous contributor, the strength of EM waves you are exposed to reduces as you increase the distance from the source. Rather than a comparison between different devices based on how "dirty" the waveform is, I'd be more interested in how efficient the transformers and rectifiers built into the devices are. If you are getting a lot of light with a low consumption of energy then you are seeing efficiency.

Personally I don't like CFL light due to quality of light and the dangerous chemicals that present themselves when the bulb is broken either accidentally or during disposal, but that's nothing to do with DE I use LEDs wherever practical.

If you subscribe to the DE thing, then you could always convert as many of your appliances as possible to DC. This is particularly easy with lighting. You could have a simple setup of panels, batteries and DC devices, with no need for an inverter, and continue to use whatever is your current energy source for non DC appliances

Whoever scripted the presentation, has knowledge of what they are talking about, and in my opinion, is deliberately misleading the audience by presenting genuine charts and data but then inventing a problem and ascribing the word "dirty" to it to generate fear. I'll stop short of using the word "scam" but I would ask "what are they selling?"
 
frank li
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If world health had to write a page.... somebody had some health complaints. Not the best source, but there are many.

Other countrys have been better informed for decades on this topic.

Low power is the easiest way, aside from creating distance, to reduce em field radiation. Tightly bound conductors, generally help, especially in dc. Opposed ballasts help bind fields close.

Ac power is problematic.

There are better regulations that keep the dirt down and high quality power electronics area good start

Its a huge research load, but it should be covered in schooling that will lead to radio....

 
John Saltveit
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The author (Samuel Milham) goes into depth about incandescent, LED , and CFL's. One really cool way he showed dirty electricity was to use a battery powered AM transistor radio. Yes, you can do this at home, kids.  You turn it away from an actual music channel, so it is just showing white noise.  Then put it near a source. You can tell how much dirty electricity is being emitted by the sound it makes as you near the device.  CFL's really do make much more than LED's, which make way more than incandescents (which make no sound).  We tried it on many other appliances as well.  Many people charge their phones right by their head. Also your alarm clock shouldn't be right by your head. Not just so you'll get up, but also because of the dirty electricity. Yes, electric blankets are a problem too that I've heard about for years, but have only come to understand after reading the book. 
John S
PDX OR
 
r ranson
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When I was learning about EM sensitivity and dirty electricity, I found this website a really good guide.
 
John Saltveit
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R Ranson,
In the Michael Schwaebe video, he explained that in some instances, the G/S filters in your article are effective, but in others, it just moves the EMR.  As Frank Li explained, Schwaebe did mention that there are some higher quality units that seem to put out less dirty electricity.
I am still learning about it, so until I understand it better, I'm not going to install solar.
John S
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r ranson
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When my Family Doctor first suggested that I may have EM sensitivity, we borrowed a Gauss meter from the university.  It was very interesting results.  We did a semi-blind experiment.  I wrote down the places where I felt the illest, had other people write lists of where they saw me show the most symptoms, then a third person took the gauss meter to different locations I frequent and measured it.  The places where I reported feeling ill and where people reported me having symptoms had higher readings than the meter could read.  Places I felt the best had the lowest reading.

When we moved, I measured the new house and the readings were at 'safe' levels.  Back then we had no cell service and no smart meter.  It would be curious to see what the readings are now that we have both. 

led lights bother me because they flicker really fast - at least on AC.  I suspect it's more the flicker rate than an EM field (in my case).  On DC they seem to be a steady light.  I'm hoping to install a solar DC system in one of the out buildings to see if there are any symptoms in that.  If not, then we'll look into transforming the house to off grid.

I don't understand Dirty Electricity very well.  I think it's an unfortunate name as it makes me think of oil and coal burning power plants.  I know there's a lot of political and economic pressure about this idea and a lot of confusing information out there.  In parts of Europe, EM sensitivity is a recognized disability and doctors treat this as an ailment.  Most doctors I've talked to in Canada see it as a mental health issue, but a few will treat it. 

What I have isn't strictly EM sensitivity, but we did discover there is a correlation there.  This and other data show me that EM fields contribute to making my symptoms stronger but I don't think they are the cause of my health concerns.  I don't see anything so far that makes me think that solar would be worse than being on grid - especially because I would be keeping most of the building DC.  But I'm not one to rely on expert advice.  I'll test it first in the out building and see how it makes me feel.
 
John Saltveit
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I emailed Samuel Milham and he said that currently  (Pun) the only model that he sees working without putting out dirty electricity is based on batteries, which has its own set of problems.

I'm still looking and investigating. I guess we don't have an urgent timeline.  We got the right kind of metal roof going, so we could install it at any time.  As I understand it better, I may develop enough confidence to commit to solar the right way.  That's the goal.
John S
PDX OR
 
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