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Holy Shit Bag (Hos bag)  RSS feed

 
Scott Rebel
Posts: 1
Location: Quebec, Canada
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I was thinking of putting together a holy shit bag, (armageddon bag, shtf bag, end of the world get out bag et cetra) and was thinking of the items to put in it. If the shit hits the fan, and i needed to get out, I would go north. Hunker down in the woods, and set up for long term in that location, wherever it may be, preferably beside or close to a water source, maybe in a cave. But I also want to be able to build stuff like shelter and shed and what not, so I got to thinking about the various tools I would need.

Need a good quality bag (big camping/hiking bag)

- items
- tools
---pickaxe
---spade
---hatchet
---Splitting wedge?
---Hand drill + a few bits
---Framing hammer
---Sharpening kit (files, stones, sand paper)
---Chisels (flat, gouge, micro flat, and micro gouge)
---Large vise grips ( doubles as pliers and a small clamp)
---Spoke shave
---Back saw (NOT THE BOW KIND)
---Compound bow, or crossbow (compound is better for one main reason - fire rate. But if you cant shoot a compound bow, then a rifle or crossbow is fine. Arrows are also easier to make than bolts or bullets)
---Skinning and tanning knives
---one set of cutlery ( swiss army camping set)
---Camp cook set (comes with 2 pots and 1 pan, quite light, quite useful, and compact)
---2 good compasses, and a dozen cheap compasses. The 2 good ones are for keeping, the 12 are for trading.

Now right there is already about - without the handles - 40 - 60 pounds. Dont travel with your tools handles (except maybe the hatchet). It adds unnecessary wieght, and its easy enough to make new ones if you need. Especially for things like the shovel and pickaxe. You wont be using those till you settle down anyways. ALL items should be durable and high quality, you dont want them breaking on you. It might be a decade before you can even think about replacing them, it might be forever.

--Tent ( 3 person )
-- 2 pairs of clothes ( 1 for summer and 1 for winter, plus a rain/snow jacket hybrid, and a good sweater. This includes hats and gloves.)
-- 1 pair of steel toe and shank boots ( get leather ones, and learn how to take care of them)
--A dozen high quality pairs of socks
--Sunglasses
-- 2 pairs high quality leather gloves
-- 12 pairs boot laces ( overkill? maybe. trade-able? definitely.)
--SEEDS. Bring all the seeds you need with you - apple seeds, pear, peach, prune, grape, strawberry, any thing you will need. Marijuana seeds. Squash. potato,tomato, onion, really bring your garden with you! because if your going to be there for 10 years, your going to want it.
--light wieght tarp ( maybe 10x12. Yes its small, but look at the list, its getting heavy!)
--1000 yards nylon string ( masons string) its strong, its light. very useful.

-Electronics
---Folding 7 watt solar panel ( used for charging cell phones, but can be used for anything with a usb charging cable)
---MP3 player
---battery bank (10000 m.a.h. or more , I have a 10 amp hour and a 30 amp hour in my bag, both with built in solar panels and flash lights. Heres a link for one with a good flashlight -

https://www.amazon.ca/X-DNENG-Efficiency-Cellphone-Rain-resistant-Shockproof/dp/B074NWGYG7/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1505408653&sr=8-1&keywords=10000+mah+power+bank+solar

This is actually a slightly different model from mine (mines 2 year old they changed it) but its the same light I think. Very powerfull, looks more natural than others, and its on a 10 amp hour battery. Very useful. I would actually suggest getting a power bank more like this one. But shop around - I dont know much about these, I only have bought 2 of them. But this one says it takes 20 hours to charge with the built in solar panel, and my smaller one takes around 60 - 80 hours. Thats because it has less panels. I find these great because of their multi uses, not to mention tradeability.

https://www.amazon.ca/X-DRAGON-Foldable-10000mAh-Shockproof-More-Orange/dp/B06XXC6KGP/ref=sr_1_19?ie=UTF8&qid=1505408887&sr=8-19&keywords=power+bank+solar

---Ereader tablet. Android ereader? I dont know what they are called. You can put a 64 gig sd card in it and have all the game of thrones show on it if you wanted. Up to you.
---Spare charging cables for all you gear (have 2 spares if you paranoid)
---Water proof / E.M.P. resistent case for you electronics (ammo box?)
---If you have a music/video library, put it all on sd cards so you can swap out and have some variety. Keep in mind that you devices might not be able to use the larger cards (32gb,64gb,128gb, et cetra) so get the ones you need for you gear. Also very tradeable to be able to give someone an mp3 player or tablet full of entertainment. In a post crash world, that could be worth a gold bar - or a months worth of food, depending and what area you live in and who your dealing with.
---Solar powered watch - link below

https://www.amazon.ca/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=solar+powered+watch&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Asolar+powered+watch

-Food and water
--- Water filtration and treatment ( link below for filtration) as for treatment - IODINE IODINE IODINE! and if you want get treament pills too. Get spare parts if possible.

https://www.ebay.ca/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xparatrooper+water+filter.TRS0&_nkw=paratrooper+water+filter&_sacat=0

---Take dried food - add water stuff is ok. Jerky, dried fruit and veggies, pasta, et cetra. Keep in mind EXACTLY how much your body needs. Never eat more than you absolutly need - most people eat way more than they need. Your going to lose wieght, but youll be alive. The main reason for the dried food is because its light. If you live in the desert, maybe consider taking canned food. I live in canada, no water shortages here. Especially in the winter, when the water stays on top of the ground -_-.

http://www.eatingwell.com/article/16037/how-much-food-do-you-really-need/

---Water bottle (1 litre) preferably metal. Though if you dont care about drinking from plastic, then by all means get plastic. Its certainly lighter. But metal its more durable, and you can even use it to boil water if you like. So long as theres no glass insulation on the inside

Ill add more to this later. You guys have any suggestions, let me know. I already have thought of much more to put here, but my time is limited at the internet, so here it is for now.
 
Drew Moffatt
Posts: 140
Location: New Zealand
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Other than a good led headlamp and something to charge it or it's batteries all the other electronics are not much use in the bush. You can't hear anything thing coming with earplugs in or your face glued to a screen, hence I don't allow earplugs in the forklift zone at work.
100 rounds of 5.56 or 7.62x39 goes a long way too and the bulk of that is less than 100 bolts/arrows a lot more accurate, faster to load and shoot.
I live 25 miles out so I won't go anywhere in a hurry.
 
Jim Fry
Posts: 141
Location: Stone Garden Farm Richfield Twp., Ohio
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You have far too much to carry on your back. But, just to be sure, put all you mention in a back pack and go for a trial 20 mile walk. Unless you have been training really hard for a while, you'll never make it. And even if you do manage to carry all that stuff any distance, you'll just throw most of it away within a few days when you have figured out just what 60 Lbs. on your back actually means. You will do much better to take the advice of experts. Go to www.survivalblog.com. It's a wonderful site for all things "survival". You can search for your particular interest, and find dozens, sometimes hundreds, of articles on what you want to know. P.S. What you are trying to describe is called a "bug out bag" (not the terms you used). Also, if you are really thinking about heading to the woods, you need far more skills and knowledge than you may presently have. I suggest checking out a good primitive skills school to learn some things. Otherwise, the woods is a good place to die in a hurry. The best school I know (and I know a lot) is www.survivalschool.com.
 
Nicole Alderman
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Location: Pacific Northwest
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Another good article on Bugging Out to the wilderness is The Fallacy of Bugging Out. It's from the blog of our member, Ross Raven (Also goes by C5).

One thing I would stress more than anything is to learn how to grow food NOW. It's not easy. We've been here for 5 years. I was pregnant for two of those. In just this, our fifth year, we've finally started producing enough calories to have a few meals per day from our garden. It is NOT easy to garden. It's even harder to garden in the woods, in the shade. It seems the average for how long it takes to get a garden growing is three years. Three years is a long time to go without food! (https://permies.com/t/65164/time-lots-time). And, that's not even considering the fact that there are only so many hours in a day to build a shelter, procure water, hunt, cooking, etc. And all the time you spend doing that, you're expending a LOT of calories, and not spending time growing them.

I like your list of useful things. You've got a lot of bases covered on useful tools. If I were in your situation, and had a few thousand dollars. I would go and buy a property waaaaay out in the boonies where you think you'll be bugging out. Put all your tools there, start developing your garden, and plant those fruit tree seeds now, and protect them from the wildlife, because wildlife love eating my fruit trees and will likely love eating yours, too!

An even better option is just to start "homesteading" where you are. It's hard to travel hundreds of miles to bug out location, especially on foot, even if you're not carrying all those tools. Turn your current place into a more resilient home--even if it's just growing herbs in your windowsills. Live frugally so that you can afford some land, and start growing there.

I've been coming to realize more and more that a Zombie Apocalypse will probably look s lot like what life looks now, just harder. Life will be hard, money short, but you still can't legally just go live in the public forests. You just have to make due with less money and more things breaking down. So, do what you can now to make you life more resilient and more able to withstand gas getting more expensive, job loss more common,  utilities more expensive, crime more rampant, etc. At least, that's what I tell myself. 

Edit: I just noticed that you had listed compasses, but not maps. Don't forget some quality paper maps for navigating around. Heck, I need to get some maps with various routes drawn on them for if my husband has to walk home from work after a big earthquake. Your e-reader might stop working from an EMP, or just from getting smacked on a rock, or from it's batteries running out. In that case, you'll really appreciate having some paper maps!
 
Roberto pokachinni
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Location: Fraser Headwaters, B.C., Zone3, Latitude 53N, Altitude 2750', Boreal/Temperate Rainforest-transition
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I've just skimmed the thread... and there is a lot of good advice here.  I am no expert on these things, but spent six months at a survival school, and have a few primitive skills gatherings under my belt. 

The myth of bugging out should be taken seriously.  A person can die in the woods with all the right gear and no skills.  A person with skills can survive in the woods with nothing.  On a seemingly comfortable weekend, a person can die of hypothermia, because they fail to keep their body temperature at a proper level, if only a slight rain draws away the heat.  Having the means and skills to whip up a fast shelter, and a fire can save your life a thousand times in a year in the woods.  Learning and practicing skills is far more important than gear, but some gear is important.   

I'm not going to add to much more to what has been said, but to recommend

the survival podcast and connecting with Jack Spirko's take on survivalism and permaculture, since you are on a permies site and have interest in the survivalist idea. 

Here's a book:  Northern Bushcraft, by Mors Kochanski.  More real survival info in this book than on most survivalist sites. 


 
Jarret Hynd
Posts: 86
Location: Sask, Canada - Zone 3b
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Jim Fry wrote:You have far too much to carry on your back. But, just to be sure, put all you mention in a back pack and go for a trial 20 mile walk. Unless you have been training really hard for a while, you'll never make it. And even if you do manage to carry all that stuff any distance, you'll just throw most of it away within a few days when you have figured out just what 60 Lbs. on your back actually means.


When I saw the list of items OP would take, I did say "holy shit..."

For reference, those 19litre water jugs are 40 pounds when full, so OP could put one in a backpack/dufflebag and go for a trial-hike. Sleeping outside in the yard overnight would also give a minor taste of what it'd be like.

---

Scott, as other have mentioned your list is far too long and you likely won't make it 2 days without starting to get backaches or falling over and hurting yourself because of being tired+not being able to balance the weight. You have packed like someone who has luxury on the mind: tanning knives, cooking set, apple seeds, MP3 Player...I hope that didn't come off as offensive, but I just know that many people would pack in a similar manner and it's an indicator of being out of touch with nature and reality if such a scenario did occur. You mention about trading this and that, well, when Shit Hits The Fan you'll be lucky to find someone who wants to trade. People aren't so kind when everything is falling apart and they've lost their comfortable lives - they'll likely just take all your stuff. (look at the looting that goes on when natural disasters happen)

I suppose we may have different visions of what SHTF might look like.

---

Since I live in a rural area already, in my scenario I'll pretend that I live in an urban center and the entire system collapsed because of _____, money was now worth nothing, jobs ceased and along with it all the infrastructure needed to maintain civilized society, I would need to head 200-300km North to get to "wilderness" and build a life for myself. The scenario will be severe in that there is no trading, team work, scavenging towns/landfills for scrap items, etc - 1 person in the wild with a backpack. I have actually walked 700+ KM before over the course of a month, and know I can walk 40km in 8 hours and I'm not athletic by any means. Accounting for the extra weight of my backpack supplies, let's say 36KM a day, meaning 6-7 days to walk 200km.

This is a list off the top of my head of things I'd take, though I've thought about it off an on before:

- Bowie or Machete (I have one 18'' long and I can cut 5 inch branches without much strain it)
- Carbide Blade Sharpener
- Flint (fire starter)
- Small Frying pan with a high rim
- Four 18650 batteries (these are what are inside PowerBanks)
- Battery charger for One 18650 battery (chargers act as a powerbank)
- LED Flashlight (technically speaking you could use this to dry tinder as the kind i'm referencing put out a decent amount of heat)
- Small Solar Panel
- Small First Aid Kit
- 32 oz Metal Kanteen
- 1 LifeStraw+ 1 small iodine bottle (water cleaners)
- Small Water Proof bag
- 1 Bottle of Charcoal pills and maybe a small amount of aspirin (poisoning/sickness)
- Diary book and 12 Pens (note taking)
- Compass+Map (I personally wouldn't care about my exact location when SHTF, but better to have them than not)
- Survival Blanket (those tinfoil blanket things)
- 1 pair of shirt and shorts (mostly just to have spare cloth around)
- 2 KG of dates. (6-8 days worth of energy + 2 ziplock bags afterwards)
- 3 small burlap sacks (for storage they'll be important in the short-term)
- 1 roll of Duct Tape (it does have a lot of uses...)
- Electrolyte Tabs/Molasses (Nicole's suggestion)

Not necessary, but has value:
- Cellphone filled with PDF documents and books - skill/knowledge oriented stuff only. (can be charged via the powerbank)
- Winter clothing
- LandRace Seeds + plants that do better in wild settings. Ex. Jerusalem artichoke would fair much better than potatoes would.
- Hatchet
- Gun (Drew is right with his argument on it's applicability, I personally don't have access to one though)

The items in the first list are likely around 20 pounds, but I can make a shelter and survive with those items. I have walked, in hilled and tree'd area where we can't get ATVs, for several miles of Fence line(cattle) at a time with 20 pounds of tools, so I'm confident I could handle that weight reasonably well. Many of these items I need simply because I don't yet have the skills to make fires from scratch consistently enough, make torches or handling first aid scenarios without a kit, but maybe in a year or two I will though - without those items I'd likely be screwed within the first week, especially if a rain storm happened. If I got to be good enough as a survivalist, I might only need 5 or 6 items on that list, but that's a long ways away.

When things go apocalypse mode, it's not about who has the most tools, it's about who can do the most with the least amount of tools. Start learning various skills and you won't need to pack 60 - 80 pounds of stuff. Ex. I've seen "make sure to keep your feet dry" in several articles, but we don't have monsoon seasons in Canada, so it's better to make sure to have the knowledge to build a leak-proof shelter than it is to pack a bunch of extra clothing. There is a common problem in Project Design called Scope Creep which I think you are facing in the creation of your Holy Shit Bag. You are asking "what do I need", with no restriction on what the purpose is for needing the items, which makes the list very long and potentially endless. It'd be better to make a list of what has to be accomplished when SHTF (shelter, food, water, etc) and then ask "what is the minimum amount of stuff I need to achieve that list".

Reading up on wild-edibles in Northern Quebec and begin to learn to identify them and know their uses will be a huge value in preparation. Plan a diet around local plants so that you can stay healthy and use them medicinally. Ex. Pine needles for Vitamin C, Mallow to fight congestion, etc.

Thanks for making the topic though, it'd been awhile since I thought about all this.

P.s welcome to permies
Here's a channel that might help with learning some primitive skills.

 
Nicole Alderman
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Jarret Hynd wrote:
- 2 KG of dates. (6-8 days worth of energy + 2 ziplock bags afterwards)


Just make sure that eating that amount of dates doesn't give you the runs! You do not want diarrhea on a trek like that, and dates are great at "softening the stools." Do a test and see what eating a lot of dates will do on an empty stomach. Maybe add a bag of banana chips to those dates, just in case. Bananas are good at stopping diarrhea, and they do have potassium, which you'll likely want on a journey like that.

Speaking of potassium, some electrolyte tabs--or even just some pills of calcium citrate, potassium citrate and magnesium citrate--would be good to have, especially if you're prone to muscle cramps. My husband gets debilitating, horrifically painful leg cramps, so electrolytes are a necessity whenever we go for long walks. A bottle of blackstrap molasses would work too, for lots of calories and electrolytes...Though use in moderation as it may also cause loose-stools/diarrhea!
 
Roberto pokachinni
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I would suggest a preliminary bug out trip.   Just think of your massive list, and then pare it down.  This is a weekend global meltdown trial so just relax.  Now pare it down some more.  Now try to carry it around the block.   Now pare it down some more. 

Now that you understand that you are not going to bug out from your home with all that gear, especially if you are walking... drive somewhere with a friend to a likely location that you think you might be able to make it to in a day on foot with maybe a 1/4 of that gear, and set up a camp in the bush.  Not anything serious, but make it with a bright blue tarp.  Now walk off towards your car and see if you can see it.  If you don't know your shit, you will be extremely obvious to anybody who knows their shit, especially if they are of the mind that they wants to take your shit, so make a camp that can't be seen.  The best way to do that is to try it out with a really bright tarp and assume that if you have a camo tarp it will look like a bright blue tarp to someone who is keen to look for a tarp in the bush.  Anyway, do this in a few locations toward your end bug out location, which is not going to be a random location but some place that you plan, and someplace where you have already built some stuff. 

Figure out a half dozen ways to string up a tarp to formulate different shelters, so that you can deal with extreme whether and stay dry and warm.

Your summer clothes and winter clothes ideas need to be thought through.  Northern Quebec is no place to figure that out.  Spend time outdoors in all weather and figure out what is best, particularly in cold.  I work outside all year.  I dress in layers of wool in all but hot summer days.  Layers are far better than a single thick layer.  Felted wool is even better as it sheds water to a  degree.  A good rain cape is essential (one that goes over your backpack and doubles as a very quick shelter.  I hike a lot and wear a pair of quick dry shorts and a merino wool sweater most of the time, but I carry (even in the summer), two pairs of wool leggings, two more layers of merino wool, and a rain/wind shell.

Figure out as many ways to build a fire as possible.  This is not just your likely first choice to warm up but to purify water it is also the best.  Fire is also a dead give away, if someone is looking for someone, so learn to be frugal and smart with your fires, crush and disperse your coals, and shelter your fires from view.  Go in the bush in a rainstorm and light a fire.  Learn to do everything in the worst conditions.

Learn knots... proper knots that is. Now tie them with mittens on, in the dark.

Drive to where your final bug out location is going to be and put all of the rest of your shit there, and pray that you never need it until you have the skills to really deal with it, or better yet hide it nearby, in buried barrels.   Now find another bug out location, and think about what you might do there if the other location has someone at it already, hunkered down with a few buddies and lots of ammo and all your shit.   Any location that looks like a really likely spot and is within a couple day walk of a city or large town is bound to be a target location by others with similar ideas. 

Whatever you are planning.. ....think it through.  Plan to think on your feet and readjust on the spot in a blinding sleet storm, with numb fingers after falling through the ice in a creek.  Your ability to not panic, and set your brain straight in difficult situations is far more important than carrying a dozen shitty compasses with the hope of trading them. 

That's just a bit of what comes to mind after reading your post again.
 
Scott Foster
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Maybe I missed it but you would need a flint or something to start a fire? 

I hate to beat a dead horse but This bag is way heavy.

I did the Vermont section of the AT last year and you would be throwing stuff on the trail with this much weight. 

I'd be thinking ultra light bug out bag and have a catch somewhere. 

Hike to all this gear, but don't hump it in. 

I'd have a good knife, a tarp or a one man ultralight tent, One small cook cup or pot and learn bushcraft.  Much of the necessary gear becomes a personal choice, things like the shoes and socks you choose make a huge difference.  

It was pretty hot on our AT trip and water was a big issue...look into water purification.  You might want a filter that hooks onto a platypus bag or a water bottle. 

Whatever you come up with road test it.  

 
Jarret Hynd
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Nicole Alderman wrote:
Jarret Hynd wrote:
- 2 KG of dates. (6-8 days worth of energy + 2 ziplock bags afterwards)


Just make sure that eating that amount of dates doesn't give you the runs! You do not want diarrhea on a trek like that, and dates are great at "softening the stools." Do a test and see what eating a lot of dates will do on an empty stomach. Maybe add a bag of banana chips to those dates, just in case. Bananas are good at stopping diarrhea, and they do have potassium, which you'll likely want on a journey like that.

Speaking of potassium, some electrolyte tabs--or even just some pills of calcium citrate, potassium citrate and magnesium citrate--would be good to have, especially if you're prone to muscle cramps. My husband gets debilitating, horrifically painful leg cramps, so electrolytes are a necessity whenever we go for long walks. A bottle of blackstrap molasses would work too, for lots of calories and electrolytes...Though use in moderation as it may also cause loose-stools/diarrhea!


Hehe, if only I was told that when I was testing out a vegan diet a year ago . Yeah, the first month was rough since I pretty much overdosed on them(my first time tasting them), but after a few adjustments things normalized. Just as a useless fun fact, but I consumed 100kg of dates in the last year, mostly thanks to a cheap, bulk online supplier. We don't have any real local fruit here, so the stuff in the stores is very low quality as far as I'm concerned. The reason I got into dates was a cyclist friend I know swears by them. He showed me pics from a week long 100km/day marathon-type event where he outlasted everyone and claimed it was that the dates were easily digestible which gave him "instant energy" without much stress on his body.

These days I mostly bring them along with me when I'm working outdoors and need a quick pick-me-up. 25 dates or so and I can usually work for 2 hours non-stop.

Good catch on the electrolytes, they slipped my mind completely. I didn't know about molasses, but will definitely try that sometime.
 
Todd Parr
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As others have said, that is far, far too much stuff.  Many people in today's society can't walk 20 miles, let alone walking carrying a car on their back.  Especially people that sit on the computer reading about how to prep for SHTF  

I agree with the article Nicole posted, bugging out is a fallacy.  I live in a very rural area and everyone here grows up hunting and fishing, and generally be "outdoorsy".  Few would survive actually having to bug out.  Also, Roberto mentioned having a ton of gear and no skills.  This can't be over-emphasized.  A person in good shape with good wilderness skills and equipped with a good knife, a water filter, and a means of starting a fire has a much better chance of making it than a guy that has read every survival book there is, spent hours on the internet researching and has a u-haul full of equipment if that person hasn't spent time in the woods DOING things.

In my estimation, if you thinking bugging out is even a possibility, start working your ass off to get in shape.  You need to spend hours a week training strength, endurance, and cardio.  There is no gear you can buy, no book you can read, no forum you can spend time on that will make up for that.  If you can't walk up a steep, thickly over-grown, brushy hill without panting, you aren't surviving shit if you have to bug out.
 
Ross Raven
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C5 here. Its nice to hear myself quoted. You can find me at Dark Green Mountain Survival Research Centre
There is simply not the callories waiting for you in the forest that people asume from the many books. Even hunting for calorie rich meat wont be there the moment there is any competition for the reasource.

85 million more people will be added to population next year. And the year after that. And the year after that.....

Thus, I was reluctantly converted to Permaculture or Perminent Culture or Perminent Food!!!

The only reason for a HOS or BOB is to get you to where all this is already waiting for you...if you happen to be away. So I advocate Strategic Relocation. Live ther now. Grow there now. Work there now. Have friends there now. This takes YEARS of hard work.

The only RUNNING AWAY BAG nessesity would be a pasport and a HUGE wad of cash. So you undersstand. That means you are now a REFUGEE in a forein country. Historicly, refugees dont fare so well.
By the way, I am writing this from the edges of the Amazon. It would suck to be a refugee here, but it would suck to be a refugee anywhere
 
We don't have time for this. We've gotta save the moon! Or check this out:
Complete Wild Edibles Package by Sergei Boutenko (1 HD video + 10 eBooks)
https://permies.com/t/70674/digital-market/digital-market/Complete-Wild-Edibles-Package-Sergei
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