Newbie Pre-Homesteader Log

Good Morning Everyone,

I just wanted to introduce myself. I found Paul Weaton's Podcasts on Sticher and have been binge listening in. I am almost up to date with the ones he has there.
And it lead me here  so I just wanted to say hello.

I was born in Jamaica and moved to Canada when i was 26 and lived in Canada 10 years now in Toronto. Last year i found myself getting a bit annoyed at city living. I went on vacations a lot so i took many breaks and i still couldn't shake it.  In Jamaica I lived in the big city of Kingston too so that wasn't it. I was a city Girl so that wasn't it. I tried many outlets like ceramic art but that didn't get rid of the feeling it just made me addicted to making pottery. So that wasn't it either.

Not knowing permies exisited or all the other self sufficient stuff existed. I got this feeling that i needed my own space I didn't want to rent all my life. I couldn't afford to buy anything in the city. the banks wouldn't give me that much money. (I should write them a thank you letter....lol) but I had a little money saved for a down payment.  I got mad (mainly cause i worked for a bank) and said fine I'll just buy my own land with my down payment and build my own house like my dad did back home . So thats what i did.

I fell in love with the piece of land (just land) that no one seemed to want and it was going for cheaper than usual. I guess I will find out why sometime in the future. I visited weekend this summer and totally loved it. There are lakes and Provincial Parks all around. I visited one and had fun fishing. My neighbours are friendly and the community is nice. One weekend visit we had some serious car trouble and had to stay there for a week and then got the fixed car stuck in the mud of the unpaved "driveway" and usually an experience like that would be terrible but I was surprised it was great and i learned alot. Everyone really tried to help, We know our neighbours (who probably think oh no dumb city people bought the land next door....lol) and now we know where most things are crash course style.

The land needs so much work and I am so excited to start. It is wooded looks like a mini forest (love), I have a swamp which I an hoping I will figure out how to clean up and make into a pond (love), the land slopes down and lakes it interesting and it gives me his Jamaica feel as I lived on a hill back home (love).

After I listened to the podcast and found my way here my mind has been exploding with the possibilities. I have you don't mind me sharing and i look forward to hearing your thoughts too. I am happy that Permies exists as when i told anyone except my parents on what i wanted to do I got crazy looks. I am happy I found other like minded people here to start my journey with I an excited.

I will talk to you later I have to get ready to go to work. My eyes are open now and I am awake and I know what I have to do. First thing pay off all the ridiculous city girl consumer debt.

My first project i can start during the winter is fruit trees. One thing seems to lead to another and I was on the waiting list for a greenhouse allotment with The city of Toronto and they called me in September to tell me I got it!
So now I can grow some fruit trees there for a few months till spring and maybe plant them on the land then. I am thinking trees are permanent, low enough maintenance that when planted properly my weekend visits should be enough attention. They take a while to grow and it may take me a while to get everything settled in Toronto and set up on the land to move (but I could be horribly wrong I'm still learning).

What were your first projects? If you don't mind sharing with me

Thanks for listening.
Nice to meet you

This week I visited 3 Farmers Markets.
Cabbage Town Farmers Market : This was a very small market with only about 10 tables with vendors selling mostly prepared foods. There was a bee products stall here and i bought some honey soap to try. I love bees.  There was only one lady who was selling fruit along with veggies. I bought apples and pears from her. The pears were so sweet and the apples were so sour. I haven't finished eating all the apples and pears. From the pears I ate I have 54 pear seeds. I only have 3 pears left. They were yummy. From the apples I ate so far I have 19 seeds. I still have 8 apples left. I sense I will be making apple pie this weekend.

Dufferin Grove Farmers Market : I was out of today again because no one was selling fruit. This was a bigger market with about 20 tables most vendors were selling veggies. There was a bee products stall here too and that made my heart happy. But, I am starting to think I missed the season for fruit seed collection.

Nathan Phillips Farmers Market : They were having another event in the square that day and so no farmers market. No fruits for me

I put the seeds I collected in the fridge and I will get them ready for germination tomorrow. My plans for tomorrow is to go shopping for the things i will need for the Greenhouse allotment opening on Sunday October 1.
Here is a picture of my bench and a sketch i made.

Welcome Yolande!  Your land looks beautiful.  It sounds like you're about to start on a wonderful journey.  Will you start building the house next year?  How many acres did you buy?  

I haven't had the guts to just plant fruit seeds and hope for good apples/pears.  I've had pretty good luck with bare root fruit trees.  They are relatively affordable and grow well if planted in the early to mid spring.  So you might want to consider hedging your bets and planting a few known cultivars of fruit along with hundreds of harvested seeds.  If you have deer you may want to protect the seedlings from munching.

My first projects when I bought raw land for a cabin were to clean up the prior owner(s) messes, get a septic installed and electrical service set up to a temporary meter and then put in footings for a cabin.  The next year was building the cabin, making trails through the woods, planting fruit trees and trying to make maple syrup.  

My first projects when buying our current home were to expand the existing orchard, put in a big annual garden, fix up the barn, collect/cut firewood from dead/fallen trees before it rotted and start remodeling the house.

Enjoy the ride!

Hi Mike, so nice to meet you.

I have "10 acres" but it's actually about 5 because I estimate half of it is marsh.

As soon as I can get my hands on legit cultivars that I know exactly what they are I will. I have found one company in quebec that will send seeds but they will not be available until May. So i decided to put my restless hands to work in some way. Thanks for the idea I will research local companies that sells roots. I bought my first apple and cherry tree at homedepot then read online that that was the worst place to buy a tree so I'm still learning and appriciate the advice.

As I get good cultivars I will replace the experimental ones. Well that makes sense in my head anyway.

I have to get rid of some debt first to free up some money and save to start building so I estimate that it will be at least a 2 or 3 years before I can start to put in anything substantial like spetic, a well or footings. I am planning to put the trees away from where we plan to build things. The experimental trees will be great for testing if the good ones will grow here or there. Again this  all makes sense in my head....lol

My immediate plan is to try and find work close by to reduce the commute which is now 4 hours. So I don't live there I just say hi to it on the weekends and now that it's getting cold I will see it next spring.

I love that you already have an orchard and expanding it. We can share orchard stories. Also good idea about a fence for the deer. I had a very interesting conversation with a guy about bears climbing apple trees and suggested an electric fence. I will put a fence on my summer project list.

I have 2 big maple trees ..... they may be very old by just looking at them with my newbie eyes. I have a picture of it but it seems I was more interested in the bird house I built than the tree at the time ....lol  I have the idea to try maple syrup in the spring too but I have not bought any of the equipment yet but I know where to get it if I an actually going to try. I have watched a few YouTube videos and read a book on how to and recipes. So it seems like a cool thing to try and do.

Nice talking with you. :)

Hi Yolande! welcome to permies. Sounds like you've found a great place! I'm in a sort of similar situation. My wife and I just purchased some land this summer and we're going to build a little one bedroom house on it next year. There's so much that we want to do with this place, and all we can do is a little at a time. We're trying to put together a 5 year plan and a 10 year plan. You asked about first projects, and ours are some steps towards improving the soil, hire the neighbor who owns an old dump truck to spread some gravel for a driveway, and drill a well. I had a soil test done back in July so I'm currently working on sourcing someone in the area to lime the place this october while things are good and dry and heavy trucks won't trash the place. We're also going to hire the neighbor with the dump truck (who happens to be a farmer and has tons of equipment) to apply some other minerals to the land that are deficient. I found a drilling company to drill our well, but they're booked up 3 months out, so I need to get scheduled with them and hopefully have a well drilled in January. I'd love to get some fruit trees and/or blueberry bushes planted in November, but we'll see. Our new place is a two and a half hour drive from where we live so I can't just run over there real quick, and going there burns up an entire day with 5 hours of driving.

Best of luck to you!

Hi Yolande, I may have overly downplayed the plan of planting seeds from good tasting apples.  That's a great thing to try.  I was just thinking it may be nice to also plant a few known apples alongside them.  We got an orchard with the property and it's taken us several years to figure out which apple is good for what.  We still don't know what two of them are good for.  There could be local nurseries with bare-root apples in the spring.  That's a great way to get affordable trees that really take off.

If I were doing it all over from scratch, I'd put in a two applesauce trees (different cultivars but same ripening time), two storage/eating apples (honeycrisp or equivalent), one or two baking apples and a few cider apples.  Then put in 100 more seeds and see what happens with them.  You can always graft new tops onto existing roots as long as you like the rootstock.

2-3 years is a perfect amount of time to learn the place, figure out the good views and other aspects of house placement and find people who can do stuff cheap for you if needed (like James' neighbor).

We have a 7' plastic mesh deer fence and the deer weasel under it.  Not a big deal this year but for next year I want to upgrade the bottom bit to keep them and the chickens out.  I'll build a chicken door so they can go in when I want them in there.  I haven't had bear problems (knock on wood).  If I did I'd look into electrical myself.  That would give you the most flexibility and you could fence a big area easier.

That is a huge old tree.  Assuming it's a hard maple, you should be able to sustainably and safely put two to three taps in it (using 5/16" tree-saver taps) which should get you about a quart of syrup per tap.  So 4-6 quarts of syrup from those two trees.  Once you've done it a year or two you'll see more maples around and tap them too.  Then you'll be addicted.

One thing we did that really helped was we bought a $600 pop up camper and parked it on the land.  We'd pop it up and down when we were there and left it for the winter.  We used that as we cleared and built for two summers.  Then we sold it for $650.

Have fun!

I think the biggest difference between city folk moving to the country, and the country folk that have lived there all their lives, is perspective.

I have noticed that the city folk that move in next to me tend to think in terms of accomplishments and required tasks in yearly terms, where as for we look at accomplishments and needs in terms of seasons. It has often been said in Maine we have two seasons anyway; winter and getting ready for winter! There is a lot of truth to that, but if anyone was to examine my posts closely they would see I often refer to Harvest Season, Planting Season, Mud Season, etc. This is because the requirements to get through these seasons is far different during these periods.

That is sound advice because a years time means little. Getting done the required tasks per particular season is what leads to success in self-sufficiency.

I started My Greenhouse Allotment Bench Journey. Mom helped me get all set up. I put out all the plants I had that were in my apartment.
In the small apartment it looked like a lot. But on this bench it looks like nothing. I will see what else I can get to germinate.

The plants look happier now that they don't have to compete with each other for space and sun.
I covered them in clear plastic so they don't dry out too fast. when I got to the greenhouse I had separated most of them into individual cups. I had like 8 tiny strawberries in one cup. I will give them time to adjust. It seems to work as when I went to check on them yesterday the soil was still damp. and they looked happy.

Hi James,
I know how you feel about just popping in to see whats going on.
I know that will be a challenge for me when I start doing any kind of construction.
Our well drillers and septic intallers are booked solid this year as they said
they had a very late start this spring. I decided to focus on saving and small
projects this year and like you try to plan. So I will join you and put together
a  2 year 5 year 10 year plan and not just have everything in my head.
It is good that you are improving your soil first and did a soil test.
I will have too look into that. It would certaily give you alot of information on where to start.

Hi again Mike
You idea for different trees for different uses is perfect. And I will have to learn how to graft.
LOL...on the being addicted to maple syrup. I will try. I think the time to try and tap is maybe March I think
I hope i dont miss it. I have to get prepared.

Hi Travis
Thanks for some perspective on seasons. I'm in canada and have similar weather. I have also visited Maine
and loved it. But you are right, Winter is coming and so for this year I think I have one more visit and then
I will wait till next spring before i visit again.

Oh, one thing to check...  Do you need to drill a well or can you try a sand point driven well?  Then it can be a do it yourself project for a few hundred dollars.  Experienced folks in the area of your land would likely know if sand points are common.  I'm not sure if "sand point" is a regional term to my area or not, I think the proper name is driven well.

To do it, you buy a stainless steel pointed pipe with holes in it, attach a length of iron pipe to it, and pound it into the ground (sledge hammer or jack hammer).  Keep adding pipe as it goes down and hopefully you hit water before you get too deep or hit a big rock.  There's more to it than this but there's lots of info on the web about it.  Your ability to do one may be limited by local government rules.

Hi Mike :)

I looked it up on youtube. Unfortunately it may not work for my area. It is so rocky. When I was trying to level my Deck Blocks to put my storage shed up and i had try a few times to find a place where i didn't hit any rocks. And I wasn't even going down a foot. But I will need some heavy equipment for sure. I'll let the professionals handle the well when it is time. (Though I may try it if I am going to put in any fence posts .....hmmm....see what happens....roll the dice...lol)

Until then I will try rain water catchment in rain barrels next season as an alternative. We got a lot of rain last year. There was hardly a dry weekend hopefully what keeps up in future years :)

<------     How cute....I got an apple....this made me smile as I think of my apple saplings

OK Back story This year something peeked my interest. I was eating Honey Nut Cheerios and reading the box like any bored breakfast eater does and "I see save the bees".
I didn't even know they were in trouble. I signed up for the pack of free wild flower seeds they came and that's awesome but it made me more observant and curious.
First thing i did was look around my neighborhood. There is a flower shop down the street a plant shop and at least 3 convenience stores selling flowers in pots on the sidewalk. No bees. Curious.
Lots of wasps though.

I went to the park down the street. They have a conservation program where they plant native  plants and have lots of flowering plants there. I felt a lot better seeing the bumble bees but only one or two honey bees. I found a native bee club and joined it and learned a bit about native bees. Went camping again saw lots of bumble bees and one honeybee. So i did some reasearch to find out what the problem was. Turns out there are lots of problems and not just lack of bee edible flowers. Mites, pesticides and predators.

I went to visit my Dad back home in Jamaica. Found lots of honeybees just in my yard mostly focused on a flowering palm tree. Ok, thats what expected to see. Curious. Came back to Canada. Went to the Gardiner Ceramics Museum took a walk found a flowering hedge with loads of Honey Bees and Monarch butterflies. I felt so much better. Went to the farmers market and saw The Bee Shop Vendor with his live glass display of bees.

I had questions that i needed to ask beekeepers so I found a beekeeping group the Urban Toronto Beekeepers association. Perfect!
So Last night they had their meeting I attended and it was amazing! so much information. I will definitely go back....and with a notebook next time. :)
The turn out was great 50 people easy. They started off this an education session on how to winterize your bees then it being the end of the season asked everyone how their bee year went. That's when you heard all the sad stories and problems the new beekeepers of the group were experiencing and helpful solutions and tips from the seasoned beekeepers. How to deal with the Mites and other predators like wax moth. For most it was a challenging year and they also said that the frequent rains this year set them back a bit too. (Toronto island was closed most of the summer due to flooding... crazy stuff)

I asked about the difference in the bee volumes i saw and how i noticed the most honey bees by the museum. Solved: there are hives being kept on the roof nearby by the University. So then maybe no one keeping bees in either neighborhoods i guess. And there are not many wild honey bee colonies around.  I did get some encouragement to start beekeeping bees as some members said their hives were far away from the city one member's hives was in Muskoka ... 2 hours away. I responded I would need so much more knowledge. Their response was stick around that made me smile. Then they said they had lots of workshops during the year. Things that make you go hmmmm hmmm hmmm ....lol One workshop they said was coming up was a honey tasting how to identify gourmet honey flavors. It was $300 so out of my price range. I'll read up more about it.

For now I will be happy for the bumble bees then and plant more wild flowers for them in the spring.

I was happy to hear that even though this year was challenging for the beekeepers that they still got quite a bit of honey and some still had most of their bees.
Does anyone here keep bees? How was your year?

P.S found the honey bee forum and pollinators forum here on permies .... *runs off to read*

Welcome!

Yolande Brown-Conran wrote:P.S found the honey bee forum and pollinators forum here on permies .... *runs off to read*

But Permies don't talk bees "...all the time..." These people do. http://www.beesource.com/forums/

Keeping bees is awesome! Keeping bees without hives absconding or dying is unlikely. I started beekeeping 5 years ago, with two colonies. By splitting them (making new colonies) I lasted till this year with one or two live colonies. They expired this year, sucumbing to mites and small hive beetles.

I recommend reading up on honeybees before diving in. Decide if you want to treat them, or not. Be a Permie: plan, observe, adapt. I started as treatment free. Then manipulated my hive configuration to help the bees fight those pests. For myself, adapting for next year with my new colonies, I will be treating them for mites. (not a paticularly popular topic here) I'll be using product derived from nature, not poisonous to bees in appropriate doses.

Also, beekeeping can be as expensive, or almost as cheap as you want it to be. If I had it to do over I'd start with top bar hives. They are cheaper and simpler to build for your self.

Hi there! Your project sounds so cool. Reading through I had a thought - as you're starting trees and wild flowers from seed, why not fruit canes and bushes too?  I see you have some strawberries.  If you get hold of some mixed berries, you could try all sorts of things.  Birds donated a lovely raspberry seedling to me (!) and four years later I have a bed full of raspberry canes that I've been multiplying.  Nearer Christmas you would be able to pick up cranberries, and I'm guessing you get frozen mixed berries in the shops like we do not the UK.  Wishing you every success on your land, and looking forward to your next update.

Hi Joylynn,

Thanks for the website. I am going to be very happy reading through. So funny the fist one I clicked on was Home Brewing.
To redeem myself I went to Beekeeping 101 and gave that a little read. Totally love the sugestion. Thank you

I hear you. Mites werea big topic at the bee association meeting. It seems that they treat for mites chemically
and just accept the fact that they may loose some bees but the colony may survive. Its a tricky puzzle I agree.

Thanks for the suggestion of a top bar hive. I was thinking as one of my winter projects to try and plan a design for a hive.
An easy one. Put it out there and see if anyone moves in. Kinda like what i did for the bird house in the picture above.
I figured it wouldnt hurt.

Hi Hilary,

Fruit canes and bushes i am trying :) but i am having some trouble with getting them to sprout
The strawberries love me they sprout so easy even though the seeds are so tiny.
Kiwis also love me....in fact too much cause all my seeds sprouted and i have like 30 kiwi seedlings all sprouting at the same time ....I had no idea
Blueberries I have less luck with....much less luck....I only have 3 seedlings struggling to grow....i mean one wrong move and they are gone.
Blackberries and raspberries...nothing.....no love...at all....but I am determined to figure it out.

Congrats with your raspberry bush. You gave me an idea I will bring fruit with me and feed the birds ;)
they maybe know how better than i do ....lol

Thanks for the Cranberry look out idea. We have Thanksgiving this weekend maybe if i look hard enough I will beable to find some fresh cranberries.
If i could get those to grow that would be a treat!

now I see them I will post an update this weekend to see how much they grew in a week

I went to check on my plants yesterday to see if they were happy in their new home. They are doing fine...probably better than me worrying about them
all the time. One of the bags had beflated so i git to use the ballon hand pump I bought yesterday. I am happy with it and dont miss the light headdedness
from blowing up the bags by mouth. I got more air in them too :) The look like they could just float away.....

Short log this morning .... woke up late so rushing to work.
I went to the metro hall farmers market yesterday it was the best one yet. Apples thd size of my hand ... lets see if i can get that to germinate...lol and Orange raspberries...i never seen that before. Yay seed gathering.

Happy Thanksgiving Canada! - I am thankful for this community

Greenhouse update:
Met another two people taking care of their plants on their benches. The first man had 3 benches and was just starting to put his pants out... wow. The other loves Bonsai  and hand a number of little trees in pots...Just fabulous. And I have a neighbor on the bench behind me with a bench full of citrus! This is amazing.

Ok so what did i get done other than ooohhing and aaaahhing over other people's plants? ....LOL. Well when i first stepped in I found a box with plants with a note "This is an orchid" but the box was filled with succulents and other plants that looked like the throw aways of pruning and they were drying out. I'm calling this the rescue box. I rescued 2 tiny orchids and 2 succulents. Lets see if I can get these to not die on me.

Then I checked on my plants. Took them all out of the bags and gave them a good inspection. For the Apples I brought with me a ruler and took all their measurements and marked them so I could see their growth progress. They all look healthy. Checked on the Cherries they are doing ok ...but they have some yellowing on the leaves but not much I will have to read and see what i can do about that. I have two seeds that sprouted and I am taking care of in the egg tray which I think is now going to be where I grow up and take care of the ones that just sprouted.

New in the Egg tray Sprouting Station:
Seeds from a few cones that spouted from an evergreen hedge down the street from me. So happy about that one!
More Kiwis >.<
More Purple wild flowers for the bees and butterflies
Checked on the 3 Blueberries...growing real slowly
Cherries doing their best to give me some roots :)

I made a little herb pot that now has rosemary, thyme and mint. I have one garlic clove growing separately. I mulched them with fallen leaves as best i could to conserve the moisture.

Then went on to the Germination station: That have all my seeds that I am trying to germinate.
New in the germination station are Blackberry seeds I scratched with sand paper after being in and out of the fridge and not germinating.
One more cherry trying its best
More kiwis >.<

I checked on the Kiwis and strawberries in cups and gave them some water then put everyone back in their bags for the Thanksgiving holiday.

This week I will work on germinating some of the seeds I have in my fridge.
the apple and pear seeds I got from the farmers market last week
The raspberries that have been in the fridge for about a month.

In other news I gave my Uncle the mango seedling I got to sprout. He was so happy ... lol I told him good luck with this new houseplant :)
He is from Jamaica too and we both miss our mango trees. He has the space to grow it indoors but I don't so I know its going to a good home. It will be fun to visit him and see how he gets it to grow.

What type of kiwis are you sprouting? I've got some Isaai hardy kiwi sprouts and they are tiny and sad looking. I refrigerated the seeds for four months, and it took about 2 weeks at room temp for them to FINALLY sprout, and they still haven't put on any leaves. I'm wondering if it's because they're hardy kiwis...or if I'm just terrible at growing kiwis!

And, by the way, I love your homesteader log. It's amazing all the plants you've got started!

Thank you so much Nicole :)

Yea ....about the kiwis ...LOL They are from the supermarket and this batch came from Chile. I don't know what variety they are. But they were yummy.

Sorry .... at the time 3 months ago I didn't know any better .....

All the things I have sprouted so far that are in the greenhouse are seeds from fruit at the supermarket. At the time i didn't know any better I am super new at this gardening thing.
Now I know that's a big no no if I want them to survive Canadian weather. I am a beginner and when i read up on it and realized that maybe it makes sense the strawberries from California won't do so well in minus 15 degree Celsius weather.

I had already gotten them to sprout so I decided to take a chance and just go with it and learn with these until I can replace them with local varieties.

Now I pay attention to where the fruit I eat comes from and started buying local for the seeds. But I am late in the season it being fall and local fruit is now hard to find.

I have no doubt that the hardy Kiwis will be harder to sprout as you are right they would need more time in the cold to get the seeds out of dormancy ....just learned that ;)
I am having a similar problem with the blue berries and the black berries. I think those were local as I bought them at the fruit store down the street but who knows the lady at the counter couldn't tell me for sure.
The blue berries took so long to sprout and when they spouted they are remaining tiny for so long its scary. The black berries have not sprouted at all. I am still trying with them.

I have started my local seed gathering. I started going to the local farmers market to buy fruit to get the seeds. I have local peer and apples seeds now so this week i will try to get those to germinate. They will replace the apples I have growing now that are from....i don't know where. I have also been learning my apple varieties which I hadn't paid much attention to before. Just bought the cheapest one before now.

I don't think you are a terrible at kiwis...Just continue giving them love and time to do what they are going to do. I have only been at this for a couple of months and had soooo many what am I doing wrong moments I really wish they could talk.  I try and read I all I can about that plant and observe what they are doing and try and help as much as i can. Good luck with the kiwis and congrats on getting them to sprout. :) I would love to see a picture of yours :)

This morning I put together a video on my greenhouse progress.
Farmers market adventures trying to find local fruit and a better view of the greenhouse and what I am up to. I skipped a few things like the apples strawberries and kiwis and all the things sprouting ...sorry my mom popped in and it was such a pleasant surprise i forgot about filming...LOL ..she brought so many seeds.

I'll get more next time :) Maybe tomorrow.



here is the address just in case the link above doesn't work you can copy and paste https://youtu.be/vCGNk2hJkW0
Enjoy.

Sorry .... at the time 3 months ago I didn't know any better .....

Yolande, this is the story of progress! There are so many things you learn on your journey. You will make tons of mistakes because we are all basically uneducated, trying to reinvent the wheel from oral tradition practically. The important thing is realizing that without your actually doing something you would not have the opportunity to fail. I would say unless you are failing in 30% of your projects you are staying in the safe zone.

The one thing you don't want to screw up is your business plan. You want this hog to give you some bacon. Spend time with people who are working on the business side of this (can be youtube for sure) and learn from their mistakes. If you are growing reasonably close in, look at http://www.growingpower.org/ for community driven, https://www.youtube.com/user/urbanfarmercstone for tons of economics stuff, there are many others out there but these are in colder areas. These are legitimate enterprises. There may be some in Toronto. If there is a distribution platform ask them what they could market. I am planning for sheep, due to a confluence of market and property factors. But I could do meat chickens as well, based on market data. Find people locally who can tel you what has worked and what hasn't, and realize then you also are giving them data, you are joining the mission.

It isn't as fun as just planting willy nilly, but will prevent burnout. You need some success to keep you going after a pretty short time mentally. Follow James Freyr's doings, and see what he has learned, he can be your canary!

Hi TJ,
Thanks for the business side. I will keep thinking about this as I increase my gardening skills.
without looking too hard I have come across models like Growing Power in Toronto but on a smaller scale I will see what else is out there.
I watched a few videos and subscribed to Urban farmer curtis stone I will see what
I can learn from him. I started with his vlog. I love Logs :).  I have been watching Justin Rhodes  [youtube]https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOSGEokQQcdAVFuL_Aq8dlg[/youtube]
as he and his family visit other farms.  <----oh cool his name is underlined :) .. yea his chicken videos are cool)

I wasnt able to find "James Freyr's doings" I like the idea of having a canary to keep me motivated. I only found  a book a million little pieces and Oprah being mad at him for it being fake.

I dont know if I have ever seen a canary but when i was camping I was awoken one morning very early by a woodpecker
(my first woodpecker experience) tapping on a tree we had the tent under.
I woke up ninja style "what was that!".... "what's attacking the tree?"   .... yea...I'm clearly not from here.....lol

Two awesome finds Yesterday!

I decided to take a walk at lunchtime to clear my head from work. I was listening to the barefoot beekeeper podcast so my mind was on the cute buzzy ones and as I walked back to work I started looking at flowers. Uuuuhhh a monarch butterfly...it flew off in the distance and I turned my head to see where it was coming from and I see another on the flower beside me... And then another on the flower beside it and another landed on the one beside it..... This must be a butterfly meeting. Oh wait are these the milkweed? ....*quick Google search* ... Mexican Milkweed .....silent scream! ....I examine the plants ....omg dried seed pods .... I got too excited and watched my first attempt at getting seeds float away in the wind   >.<  .....wind dispersal wonderful...lol  I got in touch with my delicate side and with the paper towel I had from lunch and scored some seeds.

Second score of the day .... lemongrass oil.
I read and been hearing that lemongrass oil can be used as a bee attractant and so it can attract a swarm of honeybees. When the time comes to try I will be equipped with some bee attractant. Has anyone here actually tried this?
It was the last bottle on the self so I am feeling pretty lucky.

I have been also reading Evan's log. I am at day 77 very interesting stuff!  I love how he takes the time to get distracted by the wildlife especially the bugs.

I visited the Greenhouse to see how the plants were doing. Three days alone I went there Saturday spent the whole day getting them comfortable for the days they would spend without me.
Sunday passed Thanksgiving dinner with family took me out of town for a feast! I have a big family and everyone brought something good.
Monday Holiday greenhouse closed.
Tuesday hubby wanted to see a movie after work ... $5 Tuesdays we saw Flatliners ... I must admit i was a bit worried at this point but I knew I had don't enough that they should be fine.
Wednesday literally ran out of work like a train to see how they were.

I had not needed to worry so much they were fine. In fact they probably could have gone the whole week without me all snug in their bags.
I gave all a good inspection. Mulched the kiwis (the apples were already mulched). Then made a note in the notebook to mulch the strawberries on Friday.
I put the 3 strongest mulched apples and about 5 mulched kiwis outside the bags, on the bench in the fresh air until Friday. Then check the dryness of the soil.

I spent some time reading up on Milkweed plants.
How to germinate the seeds (stratify them first for 3 weeks) so I threw some in the fridge and saved the rest in my seed container,
When to plant them in the ground (after fear of frost)
How to get them through winter (mulch around them)
Once that first batch is established they should be able to reproduce by themselves after that. Lets see.
I went back to the place i got my first batch of seeds to see if any more seedpods were bursting. It was rainy so I was not sure if I would have any luck. I thought maybe the plant wouldn't want to open seedpods in the rain but I went anyway and i found two seedpods open packed with seeds just waiting for a wind.....(or some idiot wanting seeds to shake them). Score! I got more seeds :) Happy me!
I will try to find some Common Milkweed around and try to find some swamp milkweed for the swampy bit of the property.

Focusing on seeds this week and next week.
I have a few in my fridge that i will set out to germinate. Wish me luck!

Yolande Brown-Conran wrote:  I wasnt able to find "James Freyr's doings" I like the idea of having a canary to keep me motivated.

Yolanda, welcome to permies!

Jams Freyr is one of the members here at permies.  Here are a couple of his Topics:

https://permies.com/t/63459/Strawberries

https://permies.com/t/66427/Growing-rhubarb-south

I love your photos of the Monarch butterflies!

Hi Anne,

Thanks...Read his strawberry and rhubarb posts....gonna reply on the strawberry post to see how things went with that.
Then I found him on my post here...I'm so blind sometimes. Sorry James >.< . I will check in on him to see how his soil works is doing.
I am going for a visit to my land this weekend and I will do a simple soil test. The one where you put soil, water and a little salt in a bottle and shake it, then let it settle to see what the layers are.
I will then take another sample home with me and try and find an agency here to do a more detailed test like the one he spoke about to see what the chemical make up is.
*goes to pack the bottles so i don't forget*

It was an awesome day.

Came across this post from a fellow Canadian and said hi.  https://permies.com/t/71400/military-starting-homestead#597463
I love all the sharing and encouragement and seeing others close by on the same path is very uplifting. So give him some love too :)

I got to work to find a nicely potted plant under my desk. My work neighbours are awesome ...lol. I'm used to it ... people get busy at work so its not strange for someone to drop treats at your desk if you are not there and then come back later to tell you about it when they have some time... so you just happily wait. But I'm used to it being candy or food so it was a pleasant surprise...... I guess I have been talking a lot about planting things....lol.  The lady who put it there came around about an hour later and told me it was an avocado plant that she thought a squirrel planted. It's funny cause i have been bee thinking about natures natural tree planters a few weeks ago and actually caught one in action...LOL        

Farmers market day today ...I'm sad cause its their last day till next year. I told my favorite farmer see you next year and he happily said you bet! I don't know if I said it already but when i visited his stall last week and i was just standing there trying to make up my mind kinda off to the side. He came over and gave me an apple. Its the red on in the picture above (ambrosia). Which then brought me out of my shell to talk to him a bit. I was more focused on the huge green apples (mutsu) and bought those instead. But later found out that farmer knows best! and the red ambrosia was the best apple i tasted so far. Soooo sweet! Its now my favourite. I bought a bag of those along with some strawberries.

I feel better that I am correcting my mistakes. The fruit seeds from the apples, pears, raspberries and strawberries I got from the farmers market when they spout will replace the ones from the supermarket that were form the warmer places in the USA.

Then my mom called me at work and told me she think she knows why i am obsessed with bees. She said my great great grandfather was a beekeeper in the 1890s. That was a nice to hear even if it was alot of greats I will take it and let it inspire me to push forward. :)

PayDay! - Focused in on debt reduction and savings.  No more minimum payments for me I threw all I could at my credit card this month. Sorry daily Starbucks and Tim Hortons. You will be replaced by home made meals and supermarket coffee. *crys alittle* On the bright side: Its for a great cause and I will increase my cooking skills. Gonna try and make this fun. Did I mention I turned down all you can eat sushi after work get together :( that was hard. My 5 years from now self will thank me.

I am gearing up for a land visit this weekend to put it to bed so to speak till next spring. Its getting cold so I have my thermals ... Plan B hotel for the night if it gets too cold and rainy (I'm a tropical girl still getting used to the cold)

Off to the grind ...see you later

Hi again,

Thanks for sharing! I am just going now to check out some of your Vlogging videos on YouTube. Thats a nice piece of land you have there and great ideas. I hope it all goes great for you!

Thanks Jeremy good luck to you and your family too :)

Good morning all

This weekend was tiring and none stop... It  seems I was driving for the entire weekend. Well the plan was to spend the weekend on the land but the weather was to storm and other unfortunate events lead to things not working out. The plan was to get there do project one which was to winterize the storage shed. Then go to a hotel and the next morning go back to the land and do clean up and do a proper Check on the plants and do a soil test.

We got done with the shed project and I did a few things just in case then left for our favourite hotel. But. Yup but. When we got there there was an event and all the hotels in the area where booked out or gloriously expensive.  So we eat dinner and drove back to Toronto. Sadly. So that was the last trip for the season. Sunday I did my cousin a favour that had me driving the entire day again.

How were the plants? Strawberries, blueberries and grapes and the small cherry tree looks like they were eaten by the deer. Or could have lost their  leaves naturally....u dont know. The apple tree looked great.
The Herb garden I started still had the aloe and garlic and the mint going good. Dug up the garlic (I think i planted it in July?) Had no garlic bulb so I guess I will plant them earlier next year. The Clementine plant I planted just for fun is doing well. I put a cut plastic bottle over it and covered it to the top of the bottle with dropped maple leaves so that light could shine through the top of the bottle and wished it good luck.

So tired but ....This morning I worked on seed works.
Cleaned up my strawberry seeds
Extracted my Orange raspberries seeds
Peeled off the Brown exterior of the ambrosia apple seeds.
Over the weekend I stopped by my uncle's house running an errand for my cousin. He has a cherry tree in his back yard and I asked him to remember to save the seeds for me next time it fruits. I also raided the cones from his cider tree in the front yard. I figure I got the ever green hedge down the street to germinate I could try to get this tree to germinate as the cones looked the same. Let's try.

Then rushed off for work

Now on my way to Toronto  bonsai society meeting to see what's going on this month :) I love my miniatures:)

I just want to say a big thank you for allowing me to use this venue to make a log.
And having such great picture quality. I find myself looking here first to review my plants progress. And with the seeds looking to see if it's just me or did they change alittle? A heart felt thanks :)

So I have been working on seed works (I call it).
I feel deep down that maybe what I go to the seeds doesn't matter .... that if they are going to germinate they will and if they won't then they just won't. But I just can't help fussing with them or over them like a nurse bee or a mommy hen looking after the brood or eggs. It's pretty time consuming but I can't seem to stop myself.

Clean then up really well and ensure there is no fruit residue on them or the paper towel. Rinse them every few days to ensure no mildew. Change the paper towels and give them fresh water. Keep them in the fridge. Then take them out s few at a time and see if that batch will germinate. So I an currently working on a few ambrosia apples... these were my favourite from the farmers market.  I forgot to take the current picture.... I'll edit it later today ...sorry .....actually check my next post below please

So anyway. Mom had a lot of seeds that she planned to start at the greenhouse and she took them back home as she wanted to watch them closely everyday to see what was happening and she wasn't going to travel to the greenhouse everyday so she took them home. Disadvantage for me cause I can't see :( ... but anyway I asked her for an update on her seeds and she said sadly she got none of them to sprout. She also confessed that she had them for years so maybe that's why. Oh well I was looking forward to it abd she was pretty down about it too , but maybe I can find her some seeds somewhere to buy for her even though it's not the season for it.

I went to the greenhouse yesterday. Say hi to mom in the pic ...lol
I changed a few things replaced the bags with now using the broken fish tank in the same way to maintain humidity. Left a few more plants out as the ones I felt out didn't dry out. The mulching worked like a charm.  And got a few more rescues which included a pretty flowing plant ... no idea....  sweet potato...and Joseph coat (Alternanthera). Also bought some dirt from the greenhouse... that huge box tagline thing in the foreground. I was buying small dirt bags at the dollar store with was $2 ... that big bag was $20 and will last me till next year and then some ....lol

Can't wait to see what happens the rest of this week :)

This is awesome! Keep up the good work!

Thanks Jeremy... you are doing an awesome job as well. Great videos :) thanks for teaching me how to make a sign.

This morning seed works....looking at my first batch of farmers market seeds.
pic on the left is day 2 after I stripped the seed coating off.... and the other on the right is day 4. Still in the fridge.

My crazy eyes see a difference .... right ...right ....lol *insert crazy smile here*
I feel like they are sticking their tongues out at me .... I know those are roots....lol

Anyway ... gonna put half back in the fridge and half on the window sill to germinate and see what happens.

It's about lunch time now and I just remember to add something.
I walked home from work today to relax a bit and witnessed an interesting thing. Squirrel vs hawk. I have walked by there very often to see the squirrels gathering nuts.  I have seen the hawk around town a few times and seen him catch things and fly off but never this close up. I now like squirrels too as they are tree planters like myself. Yesterday I witnessed the hawk swoop down right in front of me and grab a squirrel holding it down on the ground struggling with it alittle maybe trying to kill it first or get a good grip on it before it flew off. In this struggle and adjusting  time..... another squirrel runs down from another tree and brutally attacks the hawk. The hawk let's go of the captured squirrel  and shakes off the other squirrel and flies to the electric pole very close to the scene so he could keep an eye out for another opportunity. The attacking squirrel checks the victim thoroughly....... is now yelling at the hawk as they both go to a hole in the tree. And after the victim squirrel was safe in the hole he continued to yell at the hawk who continued to watch.

Yolande Brown-Conran wrote:

This morning seed works....looking at my first batch of farmers market seeds.
pic on the left is day 2 after I stripped the seed coating off.... and the other on the right is day 4. Still in the fridge.

.

I took half of them them out the fridge as i was leaving for work and put them on the window sill

No one was happier than me this morning to see split seeds and green tips on them.
I will take the other 3 out the fridge and put them on the window sill today for them to do the same * happy dance*

Sorry I duplicated this message ....and i cant figure out how to delete it...
So I guess I will just talk some more...

Here are how the kiwis are looking so far

Hi Yolande,

Though I admire your enthusiasm for planting fruit trees from seed, I want to add to what a couple of other permies have suggested:

If you plant Ambrosia apple seeds, you won't get Ambrosia apples. You may get a tree, and it may have apples on it, but they won't be as big, sweet, and abundant as Ambrosia.

There's a good genetic reason for this (simply, most woody fruit species are outcrossing, and you don't know who the daddy is, and even if you did, it wouldn't guarantee that the hybrid would carry the best traits of the parents).

So go ahead and plant seeds, but do grow your seedlings in a nursery apart from your orchard, because few or none of the seedling trees will be worth keeping for fruit and you won't know it for six to twelve years.

For your orchard, plant cultivars from reputable nurseries, as grafted bare-root or root-bagged stock. They will cost more than $20 per plant, but will be worth much more than that to you, will bear in four or five years especially if semidwarf, and will be true to variety.

Could you propagate fruit trees vegetatively, the way that nurseries do? Yes, you could take cuttings from a friend's trees and could even root them, but be aware that few fruit trees are grown on their own roots. So you'd also have to buy or grow rootstocks and graft your buds or other scions on them. You'd wind up spending more money and time than if you just took advantage of the expertise of a nursery.

Similar cautions apply to bush, cane, and runner fruits. You won't get true-to-variety plants from seed, but you can easily root cuttings, canes, and runners collected from a friend's patch. The only drawback you might face there is viruses (of which commercial stock is free). But it might still be worth a try.

Keep up your homesteading enthusiasm!

Very happy for you, Yolanda!

I moved from the 'city ' of Oshawa 24 years ago an hour north to the country.  I worked for a horticulturist in the municipality of Clarington for a few years and picked his brain clean of gardening secrets.   I am now living on the edge of the Canadian Shield. Check out the geographical locations on the net. Some interesting facts about the Oak Ridges Moraine which is amazing and runs right through Toronto.  Loving your ideas of trying growing trees from seeds. Yes, its a crap shoot, as who knows were these bees have been to pollinate the ambrosia apples. I have a northern spy, royal gala and a jonagold. The apples are delicious!
Good luck! If you need tips from a former 'citiot', send me a message. Cheers!

Yolanda, congratulations on starting such a wonderful adventure.
You might want to check out Kuffel Creek's YouTube channel--I especially like their videos, Growing Apple Rootstocks from Seed and Propagating Clonal Rootstocks.