"Study books and observe nature; if they do not agree, throw away the books." ~ William A. Albrecht
The trick would be lining up the birds' growth with crop ripening, and figuring out which crops to plant where, which crops to grow together, how to synchronize the growing birds' increasing feed requirements with land and crop availability, and on and on.
Skandi Rogers wrote:Now this is an interesting problem, my gut says no, but lets look at some numbers. I can tell you that 500sqr foot is not enough ground to cope with the droppings of 15 Muscovy ducklings from hatching to 4lb slaughter weight. In fact it is nowhere near enough probably not half as much as they would need. I do not know if that can be extrapolated to chickens or not.
Food I'm going to go with just pure calories here if an average broiler chicken requires 16lb of feed to get to 9 weeks and that feed has a (k)calorie count of 1452 per lb Numbersthen that's 23232 per bird or 1161600 for your projected 50 (800lb of feed) Now if we assume that most fodder you can grow will have a calorie count that averages close to that of spinach rather than that of grain. then that's 100cal per lb so your 3000ft would need to grow 11616lb of green fodder or 4lb per sqr foot, not allowing any space for their house or paths.
I would say that 4lb per foot is very high but not impossible if you can grow things in rotation 2-3 crops and rotate them over it. however since they need that amount in 9 weeks rather than an entire season I think that the area is insufficient, however you certainly could do it if you also feed some high cal/protein additions along side. getting any balance into the diet would be hard. Mathematically speaking if you were to double the area or halve the chickens it looks entirely possible. It would also help to have slower growing chickens so the fodder had more time to regrow.
Skandi Rogers wrote:Now this is an interesting problem, my gut says no, but lets look at some numbers. I can tell you that 500sqr foot is not enough ground to cope with the droppings of 15 Muscovy ducklings from hatching to 4lb slaughter weight. In fact it is nowhere near enough probably not half as much as they would need. I do not know if that can be extrapolated to chickens or not.
Andrew Mayflower wrote:I get the objections some on here have to the Cornish Cross. However, having read of quite a few success stories of people that have raised them on forage, and by doing so slowed down their growth rate enough to avoid the heart and leg problems, I think it can be done, and see no reason not to try.
That is what I'm looking for advice so I can get a plan going to what to plant, how much to plant, and how to distribute it in my available space.
I'm also hoping for some amount of advice on whether that area is sufficient for 50 birds at a time, and if I can run more than 1 batch a year on that space.
"Study books and observe nature; if they do not agree, throw away the books." ~ William A. Albrecht
Andrew Mayflower wrote:
Skandi Rogers wrote:Now this is an interesting problem, my gut says no, but lets look at some numbers. I can tell you that 500sqr foot is not enough ground to cope with the droppings of 15 Muscovy ducklings from hatching to 4lb slaughter weight. In fact it is nowhere near enough probably not half as much as they would need. I do not know if that can be extrapolated to chickens or not.
Food I'm going to go with just pure calories here if an average broiler chicken requires 16lb of feed to get to 9 weeks and that feed has a (k)calorie count of 1452 per lb Numbersthen that's 23232 per bird or 1161600 for your projected 50 (800lb of feed) Now if we assume that most fodder you can grow will have a calorie count that averages close to that of spinach rather than that of grain. then that's 100cal per lb so your 3000ft would need to grow 11616lb of green fodder or 4lb per sqr foot, not allowing any space for their house or paths.
I would say that 4lb per foot is very high but not impossible if you can grow things in rotation 2-3 crops and rotate them over it. however since they need that amount in 9 weeks rather than an entire season I think that the area is insufficient, however you certainly could do it if you also feed some high cal/protein additions along side. getting any balance into the diet would be hard. Mathematically speaking if you were to double the area or halve the chickens it looks entirely possible. It would also help to have slower growing chickens so the fodder had more time to regrow.
What's the caloric density for grains? I know that depends on which one, but say an average excluding soy as I highly doubt I'd be growing any soy. If can grow food that averages 300cal/lb that cuts my required growth to 1.29lb/sqft. That works of wheat, rye, millet, and other grains are that the chickens can self-harvest is, say 1000cal/lb. Not so much if those grains are more like 250cal/lb. If I can get the caloric density up high enough, then it becomes a question of nutritional balance, as well as having only food the chickens actually eat. So looking at protein %, vitamins and mineral content, etc.
My guess is that best case I'd be trough feeding some significant percentage the first round as I figure out what they'll actually eat, what gets left alone, and what grows enough to be sustainable. So, if anyone can clue me in on what would grow well in my area that their chickens (not necessarily CX, though best if those are what you have) actually eat, and so on that would be most appreciated.
Zone 5/6
Annual rainfall: 40 inches / 1016 mm
Kansas City area discussion going on here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1707573296152799/
"Study books and observe nature; if they do not agree, throw away the books." ~ William A. Albrecht
Zone 5/6
Annual rainfall: 40 inches / 1016 mm
Kansas City area discussion going on here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1707573296152799/
Dan Grubbs wrote:Very impressive to me, Wes. I want you to come up to the KC area and teach me how to do that. I bet we could get a few people to attend who would benefit from that teaching. If I could do 25 in four hours by my self, I'd be really happy. I'd love to watch you and your wife do this the next time. Could you set up a phone or video camera to capture it? Love to watch your system step by step with 4-6 birds. Many of of us would benefit from that, I'm sure.
Wes Hunter wrote:
For starters, we switched over to dry plucking (with a machine) this year, so our setup and system is dramatically different now. Now it takes longer per bird (with the exception of ducks, usually), but produces a superior end product.
Skandi Rogers wrote:Another thing to think of is do you have enough good refrigeration space for 50 birds? That's a lot of bird to cool down in one go. I personaly take around 20minutes to process by hand one chicken, not fast at all but I am hand plucking them and have only done 5 or 10 max.
Andrew Mayflower wrote:Just curious why you think dry plucking produces a superior product? Do you not like the effect scalding has on the skin, or is it something else? When you were scalding what temperature for the water did you use? I've heard everything from 140-165F. But I know of one person at least that says most dissatisfaction with scalding comes from those that scald too hot, or too long (or both I guess). He mainly works with pigs when it comes to scalding, but has said that about chickens too.
What kind of machine do you use for dry plucking?
Brett Hammond wrote:Wes, great info. What type chickens do you raise? How long to maturity? How much space per chicken in your range? Do you plant special foods for them? How much do you need to supplement their diet?
Co-Owner and Communications,
Atitlan Organics
www.atitlanorganics.com
Ken W Wilson wrote:I think keeping your vegetation alive may be difficult. It’s not just how much the chickens eat, it’s also how much they will scratch up. I’m not sure you have enough space for when they are a couple months old. You might have to give the grass a break and just feed at times, especially if it gets dry.
Grace Gierucki wrote:Plus nothing beats a big, fat air chilled breast!
Grace Gierucki wrote:I can certainly understand the disgust and horror of factory farmed birds but my chickens are raised efficiently without being miserable. They live a normal, happy chicken life even if it is very short. My one extreme dislike of raising these birds is that the chicks come from a factory setting. I haven’t found a way around that yet but I’m working on it! FYI- Jumbo Cornish crosses are fertile, do lay fairly well and can breed if you’re ultra careful about how much food they get after reaching their full size. They will eat themselves to death if you let them.
Grace Gierucki wrote:Hmm, maybe my chickens are spoiled. All of my birds, heritage or otherwise, will eat as much as I give them. I tried free feeding them but when I slaughtered the old layers the fat deposits were ridiculously large and they stopped foraging aggressively.
This topic could continue forever and has the potential to devolve quickly into the world of other ethical dilemas so I'll let it drop now. I will say that I don't think I'm a good enough cook to appreciate the difference between heritage and air chilled corning cross breasts!
Wes Hunter wrote: It's not only cheaper to feed them a lower-protein ration, we've actually seen better weight gains with the lower-protein. That's a win-win. This year we tried a soy-free ration of corn, field peas, wheat, pats, and sunflower seeds, which comes in at around 15% protein. We supplemented additional protein (mostly in the form of fish meal) in the brooder. We're still working out the kinks (because we're trying to get a base ration that will work for chickens, ducks, guineas, turkeys, geese, and hogs, then adding certain things based on species and point in their life cycle), but it seems to be mostly working. I'll note too that we try to make a point to ferment the feed, though that doesn't always happen. In general we're trying to roughly imitate the French Bresse method.
A piece of land is worth as much as the person farming it.
-Le Livre du Colon, 1902
Evildoers! Eat my justice! And this tiny ad's justice too!
100th Issue of Permaculture Magazine - now FREE for a while
https://permies.com/goodies/45/pmag
|