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flow form molds  RSS feed

 
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20 years ago, my wife and I went to the Midwest Renewable Energy Fair, in Wisconsin.

We saw a guy selling plastic clear molds for pouring your own flow forms. He had several different shapes. I tried contacting the fair office and they do not recall his name or business.

Does anyone know where I can get some molds. I would rather now import already made flow forms from NZ or Australia.

Any leads would be greatly appreciated. Thanks george
 
pollinator
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Never heard of them till now.
I would buy one and use it to make my own mold.
It's the inside that matters for the water treatment,so coat the inside of your sample with a release agent (veg oil,beeswax)and pour in the plaster of Paris.
 
George Wright
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Hey everyone, I really need to find some molds to pour my own flow forms. Does anyone have any american or canadian leads on who might sell these. any leads would be greatly appreciated, I am desperate, thanks george
 
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I looked for some too, but they were very expensive, then I came to the conclusion the compost tea brewer should do a similar job and be more generally multi-purpose. Have you considered this option? Anyone got an informed opinion rather than just my ideas?
 
George Wright
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Please someone, does anyone know of any flow form molds available anywhere?

I really need a source, desperate. Thanks in advance, george
 
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In an attempt to help you find what you seek, I have been looking online for flow form molds. You have probably already made a few online searches of your own.There are quite a few sites selling pre-made forms and several that have instructions for making your own. Wide range in prices for those pre-made forms.

Bohemian Stoneworks in Sebastopol, CA may be of interest.

Pinterest has some great do-it-yourself flow forms. I don't know how instructional they are.

Permaculture News has a bit of information on a search on their site. (Including a butt mold.)

And, I did find more discussion in this Permies thread and in this Permies thread also.

Now, I must say, to find that exact vendor from a fair 20 years ago is a long shot. (I did quite a few searches for the fair vendors present 20 years ago and around that time too.) They may very well be out of business, maybe...maybe not. I don't know, but I hope you are not as set on finding them as you are just finding good molds (without international shipping).

I wish you much luck finding your molds. Posting to this thread will keep it bumped up to the top, so hopefully someone with better information than I will chime in soon.






 
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I know this is not what you are looking for but this product might be used to make what you want and they offer some videos on how to:

http://www.shapecrete.com/projects


This is from one of the permie links provided above:

"You could probly make a mold out of Dirt, then pour concrete over the shape in the dirt, let it dry, and clean the dirt out of the bottom part when its dry. "


Another thought would be to contact a local school or college.  Their art department might have a pottery class that might make the mold for you.


This might give you some ideas:

http://www.instructables.com/id/Easy-to-make-concrete-bowls-and-planters/


I found this to be informative and has some useful links at the bottom:

http://johnrolandpenner.com/Articles/Flowforms.html


Just trying to give you and other readers some idea for an alternative to the molds.
 
George Wright
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hello folks, l want to thank all those who contributed, but I am still stuck. Yes, I will try molding from scratch, but.............

Does anyone know of any plastic molds for pouring flow forms?  Like I mentioned before, I did meet a guy at a Midwest Renewable Energy fair 20 years ago. He had all sorts of shapes and sizes. clear reusable plastic molds. The current fair staff locked though old programs and found nothing.

Please anyone, I am a cronic diy type of person, buying 400lb pre made flow forms from New Zealand, kills me. Please, anyone?

thanks george
 
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You have links above and advice to make molds out of sand or soil.
 
Anne Miller
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I had to go to ebay to check on my purchases so I thought I would see what  I could find.

Now I know this is not what you are looking for, though maybe several put in a row tilted so they flow into each other might work:

-Bird-Bath-Top-Stone-Plastic-Production-Mold-Concrete

or this:

/Crete-Mold-concrete-molds-fiberglass-fire-bowls/

If
 
George Wright
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Rebecca, yes, lots of info has been provided on pouring my own molds. I have poured lots of other things, I get that part. I have poured many elaborate house foundations, countertops, sinks, etc. I know how to build things inside out and work backwards. I know what release agents are, I have done some sand casting. I do not need help there.

I simply do not know the shape of the required flow forms. There are many different styles, they are so unique that they their shape cannot be conveyed from a simple picture. They cannot be mathematically described either. They are unique. Sure I could guess and experiment, but I have too much other work to do. We farm full time, about to start the cropping season.

I just want to buy some plastic molds and get going. The fact that I saw some at a renewable energy fair 20 years ago leads me to believe there are some out there somewhere. I am trying to say this politely, but sometimes I find the biodynamic "industry" keeps it's cards close to its chest and rarely share info for the diy type of people. for example, two day courses at $1000 a day may be good value for money, but my farm cannot afford that. Shipping pre made molds from new zealand is ridiculous. That is why we grow organic grain for our animals because we do not believe all the imported "organic" feed from china and india is very organic after travelling around the world. I know this is off topic, but please, someone must know someone with some molds for sale.

thanks in advance for any leads. george
 
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George Wright wrote:Rebecca, yes, lots of info has been provided on pouring my own molds. I have poured lots of other things, I get that part. I have poured many elaborate house foundations, countertops, sinks, etc. I know how to build things inside out and work backwards. I know what release agents are, I have done some sand casting. I do not need help there.

I simply do not know the shape of the required flow forms. There are many different styles, they are so unique that they their shape cannot be conveyed from a simple picture. They cannot be mathematically described either. They are unique. Sure I could guess and experiment, but I have too much other work to do. We farm full time, about to start the cropping season.

I just want to buy some plastic molds and get going. The fact that I saw some at a renewable energy fair 20 years ago leads me to believe there are some out there somewhere. I am trying to say this politely, but sometimes I find the biodynamic "industry" keeps it's cards close to its chest and rarely share info for the diy type of people. for example, two day courses at $1000 a day may be good value for money, but my farm cannot afford that. Shipping pre made molds from new zealand is ridiculous. That is why we grow organic grain for our animals because we do not believe all the imported "organic" feed from china and india is very organic after travelling around the world. I know this is off topic, but please, someone must know someone with some molds for sale.

thanks in advance for any leads. george



Honestly, im my experience, it's insanely hard to find flowform molds in the US. I have looked for years and not found it. The best bet I can offer is to find someone who has one and make your own mold of it and then work from there. For your own info, I know it's not useful at all in the short term, they can be described mathematically using a thing called projective geometry and it's fairly complicated. You can read an explanation of that in the book 'energizing water', but I didn't find the description of the mathematical method particularly understandable. Just so you know a source. I have dreams of getting around to getting a mold of a friend of mine's flowform (he bought it from a manufacturer who no longer seems to be operating) and if I do I will post here and try to get you some.
 
George Wright
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hey thanks stephen. not knowing they are just around the corner is good to know, the fact that you have tried to looks makes me feel better that I had not been simply missing them somehow. I have read Wilkes books and in particular the last one on energizing water and know the section using projective geometry well. Lots there, but like you said, tough to transfer to a mold or a flow form. I really appreciate the answer, you may not have solved it, but definitely makes me feel better. Thanks, if I find anything, I will post it to you, thanks again, george
 
stephen lowe
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Hey george, this thread inspired me to look around again and it looks like flowform.net has updated their website and is now listing products (some even cast in california) but a cursory glance doesn't make it clear what prices are or how you can order them. I would imagine that you have to contact them and sort out your order. It's quite frustrating how there is a seemingly universal refusal of the people who manufacture these things to be even remotely convenient to deal with. But I hope this lead helps.
 
George Wright
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Hey anyone think of anything?  still need a source for molds.

I have been experimenting with antique tractor seats, just gotta get my dispensing from one to another more finely, without spilling.

any thoughts out there?

thanks george
 
            
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Only two companies have the patented rights to sell Flowforms in the US. I used to work for bohemian “stoneswork”... Concrete is disgusting. I would like to make them out of glazed ceramic or carve them out of stone if I had the molds..
 
pollinator
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Hi George,

A really brief search pulled this up. I hope it helps. There was some mention of casting being done in NZ, the UK, and California, with delivery available anywhere.

At worst, you can ship one that suits your needs from California, cast a mould from that, and make as many as you like.

Personally, I would just look deeper into the research and try your own hand at it. If it's so important that you be able to use this technique, it won't hurt to understand it on a more practical level. It literally shouldn't take more than examining the natural water features you're trying to emulate and replicating them in microcosm.

If you look into it, nothing really magical is happening, and everything I have found on the subject couches explanations in quasi-mystical phraseology, somewhat reminiscent of the language surrounding biodynamics. I think one could easily do as well with a series of cascading basins, perhaps with some thought to encouraging vortices within those basins, and perhaps pulsing the flow of water.

I like the idea behind flow forms. I like that it accords with everything that, for instance, sepp holzer says about how water should move on the land to increase its vitality, which I have always taken to mean increasing natural oxygenation.

I think I prefer creating actual water features with aspects of natural hydrology, like falls into basins and cascades over pebbles, that would likely do the same thing. I would love a pond at the head of such a system with a jet pump to shoot a plume of water into the air, to come down, for the most part, back within the pond. Perhaps it could be programmed to "pulse" as required by some flow form systems, perhaps even to music!

I think these flow form people aren't selling the idea right. A colour-changing LED setup, some garden speakers, maybe multiple pulsing jet pumps shooting water into the air, all set to respond to music and noise of any kind, such that, in passive mode, the light and pulsations might respond subtly to the natural environment, and the pulsations would sync up with the music when I might pump Bach through the garden speakers. Or imagine a garden party! Or a concert!

Okay, maybe that will be my garden. If the tangent had a point, I think it would be to learn as much about why flow forms work as they do, and about the natural systems they're based upon, and then tailor your approach to stuff you have and your specific situation (you said something about tractor seats?). A flow form could easily be a fountain-like sculptural feature in a pond or basin that is mistaken for (or recognised as) art.

If you are experimenting with something specific, and I would love to hear more about that, it would be cool if you could post some pics. Keep us posted, and good luck.

-CK
 
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Unless you manage to find exactly what you are looking for (plastic form mold) you will indeed have to make your own.

You can use a large block of wood and make the plug by carving the shapes you desire in that then use a vacuum bag or table to create your plastic mold (you have to heat the plastic first) since it sounds to me like you just have to have a plastic mold as opposed to a fiberglass or rubber one.

Keep in mind that the theory is still under investigation and not fully proofed at this point in time.
They do make pretty water features though.

For the simplest form get two hard balls (rubber or what have you) and place them touching and press into a wet sand bed, when you remove them you will have a reverse of a nice flow form that you can fill with plaster to get the plug for mold making.
 
Mother Tree
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I'm pretty sure geoff lawton once said that human buttocks are the perfect shape to take a mold from for making flow forms.

He might be skinnier than me though...
 
Bryant RedHawk
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I was going to use that example Burra, but then I used balls to take the place of the glutes.
 
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I'm also interested in this topic. maybe we can use a 3D CAD program to design an Open Source Flowform ? That would be pretty sweet

Edit: I found this thread on the forum of someone actually using their own butt as a mold for a flowform. Looks like everyone had a glute time
https://permies.com/t/30877/Geoff-Lawton-Cold-Climate-Permaculture#240055
 
David Ha
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Good news, I found this: https://grabcad.com/library/flowform-3d-model-miroma-02-1
 
stephen lowe
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Bryant RedHawk wrote:Unless you manage to find exactly what you are looking for (plastic form mold) you will indeed have to make your own.

You can use a large block of wood and make the plug by carving the shapes you desire in that then use a vacuum bag or table to create your plastic mold (you have to heat the plastic first) since it sounds to me like you just have to have a plastic mold as opposed to a fiberglass or rubber one.

Keep in mind that the theory is still under investigation and not fully proofed at this point in time.
They do make pretty water features though.

For the simplest form get two hard balls (rubber or what have you) and place them touching and press into a wet sand bed, when you remove them you will have a reverse of a nice flow form that you can fill with plaster to get the plug for mold making.



Have you read 'energizing water' Dr.? I feel like you may have said that you had on another thread. Either way, it's a summary of flowform research up to about 2012? or there abouts and for my money it about fully proofs the theory. They show clear increases in growth and germination as well as more efficient use of water by plants. How exactly it works still seems to be up in the air but as far as I can tell the theory has been proven.
 
stephen lowe
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I also just want to add that I got to use my buddies flow form to mix some biodynamic preps this year, and whether the mystical vortices of homeopathic steer manure compost with actually do anything to the garden or not they sure as heck made me feel special. It is really a wonderful thing to watch the way the cascade shifts from chaotic tumult to orderly rhythm. Very peaceful.
 
And when my army is complete, I will rule the world! But, for now, I'm going to be happy with this tiny ad:
Food Forest Card Game - Game Forum
https://permies.com/t/61704/Food-Forest-Card-Game-Game
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