• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies living kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education experiences global resources the cider press projects digital market permies.com all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Nicole Alderman
  • raven ranson
  • paul wheaton
  • Jocelyn Campbell
  • Julia Winter
stewards:
  • Burra Maluca
  • Devaka Cooray
  • Bill Erickson
garden masters:
  • Joylynn Hardesty
  • Bryant RedHawk
  • Mike Jay
gardeners:
  • Joseph Lofthouse
  • Dan Boone
  • Daron Williams

Soil building, and pomegranate, fig, olive planting guild suggestions?  RSS feed

 
Posts: 29
Location: Portugal, Zone 10A
forest garden homestead solar
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hello all
I am a new poster (my first!), although have absorbed the knowledge and expertise from this forum over the last couple of months, while researching food forests, fruit tree guilds, off-grid living, and growing possibilities for a little plot of land that I have just purchased in northern Algarve, Portugal.

The land is tiny...approx 20 feet wide, by about 200 feet long. It is overgrown, without irrigation, has depleted soil quality, and is entirely off-grid. On the plot, I can identify (so far) a giant fig - so many suckers and branches it looks like a little tree prison! A couple of olive trees (equally overgrown and unloved), and a couple of spindly pomegranates! I hope to prune what I can in this first season, plant guilds around existing trees, and begin building and enriching the soil - initially at the guilds, but ultimately, throughout the whole plot.

The task of turning this little, unloved plot around feels mighty overwhelming at the moment, so my approach is to focus on re-invigorating the existing trees - olive, fig and pomegranate first.

Over the next five years or so, I hope to install a water management system for irrigation, and just generally turn this neglected little plot into a healthy, fertile, food forest.

Here's what I have found so far for pomegranate and fig guild planting - which I've shared below - but haven’t managed to find too much on olive tree guild planting.

Pomegranate - Bee pollinated so plant herbs (thyme, mint, oregano), flowers (lavender), and fruit (melons, berries) that bees love. Chives as pest deterrent. Shade loving aloe vera, and ginger under the canopy. Vining cukes and watermelon. Aphids are a problem, so plant nasturtiums to repel, and daisies and fennel to attract aphid eaters! Mulch heavily, and thin fruit well.
Fig - Doesn’t like nitrogen, so need good supply of potassium. Purslane (potassium accumulator), parsnip (pest deterrent), roots inhibit weeds and flowers encourage beneficial insects, chicory (potassium accumulator), common thyme, turkey thyme, wild thyme, variegated lemon thyme (all thymes planted as weed deterrent ground cover and pest deterrent fragrance), goji berry (potassium accumulator), yarrow (potassium accumulator), oregano for ground cover and pest deterrent, it will also act as potassium accumulator. Once the trees are growing well, you can plant herbs, or shade needing vegetables that don't put down deep roots. Plant garlic in a ring half way between the trunk and the drip line.

Can anyone share their observations re additional considerations for the pomegranate and fig guilds, as well as anything for the olive?

I'm also keen to learn about effective soil identification and soil enrichment techniques which I can put into practise this season. Initially, I'll start a composting system, and plant green manure, but am really keen to learn as much as possible about soil building and soil management in this climate - zone 10a - so that I can build the soil quality throughout the whole plot.

I am very keen to share knowledge and resources, learn more about permaculture, share seeds/cuttings, growing techniques, food, labour and generally become part of this lovely community

 
garden master
Posts: 4806
Location: Vilonia, Arkansas - Zone 7B/8A stoney, sandy loam soil pH 6.5
541
books chicken dog duck fish forest garden fungi homestead hugelkultur hunting pig
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
hau Shari, great to have you posting!

For the soil I suggest you check out this page: Soil threads
This way you can pick where you want to start the soil building journey.

I would recommend you thin the fig tree, keeping it to around 7 main stems (or less) will make adding things around it a lot easier, plus it will make better figs with fewer stems to supply nutrients to.

Olive trees like an equal blend of PKN and a full complement of micronutrients one of the best plants to complement the olives is comfrey, mint is also a good one.

I know others will chime in with many more good plant suggestions.

Redhawk
 
Shari Bee
Posts: 29
Location: Portugal, Zone 10A
forest garden homestead solar
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Bryant RedHawk wrote:For the soil I suggest you check out this page: Soil threads
This way you can pick where you want to start the soil building journey.

I would recommend you thin the fig tree, keeping it to around 7 main stems (or less) will make adding things around it a lot easier, plus it will make better figs with fewer stems to supply nutrients to.

Olive trees like an equal blend of PKN and a full complement of micronutrients one of the best plants to complement the olives is comfrey, mint is also a good one. 

Redhawk



Wow, thank you Redhawk for the great soil link! Lots to go on there and will give me much more idea of specifically which direction I want to go!

I will attempt the fig thinning - it definitely needs it! - there are so Many tangled branches down low. Would I aim to prune off everything up to about 3 feet above soil level? Which would then start to create a clean central trunk? Then prune back the upper branches into the much reduced main stems?

On the fig...also wondered if it's possible to root some of the cut branches, so that I can create more fig trees?

On the olive...thanks for those two - comfrey and mint - both have lovely flowers too so hopefully will attract pollinators to the site.

What a great forum!
 
Posts: 533
Location: South Tenerife, Canary Islands (Spain)
5
forest garden greening the desert trees
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Sounds like a nice plot. Don't underestimate what you have there already. I don't know how much rain you get but if these trees are established and surviving with no irrigation then you already have a great setup. Are you going to introduce irrigation or are you looking to setup guilds that will survive without irrigation? If so your challenge is to get something established during the rainy season, as even the most drought resistant plants usually need some rain to get started.

Fig, olives and pomegranates are great trees for non irrigated plots so you have a really good start. I grow mint around trees with no problems but it needs water, it is supposedly allelopathic but I guess the roots are at different levels to the tree roots. Due to the challenge of getting anything started without irrigation I would not be thinking of what is compatible with existing trees but simply what will grow with minimal water - the aim being to achieve a diversity and 100% ground shade. A diversity of cheap/free plants can be used with a shotgun approach, nature will tell you by naturally culling those plants that can't survive. You've already got trees that provide food so you might want to go for some nitrogen fixing legume trees. I won't suggest specifics as these are easily researched and depend on what your temperature range is. My location never sees frost so my choices are different to most other locations in the world.

Melons, berries, ginger, mint are unlikely to survive without irrigation.
Lavender and garlic have a chance to make it thru. Roses become very drought tolerant but might be a struggle to establish. I mention them as they have a great relationship with olive trees.

Other suggestions of low/zero irrigation plants are yucca, loquat (nispero), clumping bamboo, prickly pear, tree tobacco.

If you can haul some water in before your water management system is in place then you can get lots of things started that won't survive the first two years without irrigation but once established will be able to make it thru the dry season.
 
Steve Farmer
Posts: 533
Location: South Tenerife, Canary Islands (Spain)
5
forest garden greening the desert trees
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Shari Bee wrote:
On the fig...also wondered if it's possible to root some of the cut branches, so that I can create more fig trees?




Yes, fig branches take well to rooting. Loads on you tube on this. I prefer to take the shoots that come out of the base of the tree just below ground. You can stick a wood saw into the ground and saw these off a few cm below the surface, and they come up with roots already on them. Much easy than waiting for branches to root, but obviously you get a much smaller "cutting". Same with pomegranates, they throw up loads of baby trees around the base that can be extracted with roots already started. You can let them get to a metre high or more before you take them and you have a great start. One thing I've noticed with figs and pomegranates is they play dead. They lose leaves or look terrible with yellow leaves and go bare for a few weeks then suddenly hundreds of new leaves show up, so don't give up on them too soon. And don't overwater.
 
Posts: 15
2
bike fungi cooking
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hello Shari !

Nice to hear that someone else is giving care and love to a land of olives and pomegranate.
I have just taken over my aunt's land in Provence, South of France, where hundreds (I mean hundreds!) of olive trees grow on terraced hills. The clay soil is heavily eroded, poor and with calcium and phosphate lock down (they tend to bind together and only mushrooms such as from the basidiomycete family will break it up and make it available to trees --> food for thought and design !).


One of my techniques for this particular land was to dig swales on the top terraces with ponds to collect the excess water (when it rains here, it floods everything). Hopefully, the water tables will benefit from the water soaking. Does your land have a slope ?


I have been looking at Olive tree guilds. I'll share those findings with you, I am yet to experiment and see what works best.

Here is the list :
Pomegranate
lavender
thyme
rosemary
wild asparagus
oregano
almonds
figs
artichoke
lemongrass
jujube
purslane
rose
dates
grapes
wheat
barley
Dittrichia viscosa (false yellowhead) (helps with the olive fruit fly)

I like your suggestions for potassium accumulation, I'll test them out too !


Once I set up my design dossier for this land I'll send it to you if you interested, I would be glad to exchange more on your findings and ideas.

Best
Lennan
 
Shari Bee
Posts: 29
Location: Portugal, Zone 10A
forest garden homestead solar
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Steve Farmer wrote:Are you going to introduce irrigation or are you looking to setup guilds that will survive without irrigation? If so your challenge is to get something established during the rainy season, as even the most drought resistant plants usually need some rain to get started.



Thanks for such a helpful reply Steve. Sounds obvious, but hadn't thought about focussing planting in the rainy season! Great idea! With regards irrigation...the plot is adjacent to a tidal river so I hope to use the river water to irrigate via an offgrid water siphon/pump system!! Currently drawing up plans and testing various pump systems. Until that is in place, I'll be carrying buckets up from the bank! Although I do have access to water, I need to do some tests re salinity, before totally relying on the river as a source for water loving plants! So to get a good base, I'd like to setup guilds that don't need much irrigation. If the water turns out to be sweet, I'll be getting rather giddy about packing in as many yummy fruit trees and vines as I can physically fit!

Steve Farmer wrote:Due to the challenge of getting anything started without irrigation I would not be thinking of what is compatible with existing trees but simply what will grow with minimal water - the aim being to achieve a diversity and 100% ground shade. A diversity of cheap/free plants can be used with a shotgun approach, nature will tell you by naturally culling those plants that can't survive. You've already got trees that provide food so you might want to go for some nitrogen fixing legume trees.



The diversity and 100% ground shade is just what I would like to work towards. If I can get a little micro climate started, I hope that the quality of the site will improve overall. Then...maybe, I could introduce melons, berries, ginger etc.

Love the idea of a cheap/free shotgun approach! I could wander through the surrounding area and take cuttings of the various trees I come across, and see what takes hold back on the plot!

Steve Farmer wrote:Other suggestions of low/zero irrigation plants are yucca, loquat (nispero), clumping bamboo, prickly pear, tree tobacco.



Would be really interested in trying the loquat and prickly pear. Initially I'm trying to focus on food food food trees. So any edibles requiring low/zero irrigation would by high on my experimentation list!

Wonderful suggestions Steve, thank you! Off to look up nitrogen fixing legume trees now!

Any other suggestions for low/zero irrigation fruit trees I'd love to hear about.
 
Shari Bee
Posts: 29
Location: Portugal, Zone 10A
forest garden homestead solar
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Steve Farmer wrote:I prefer to take the shoots that come out of the base of the tree just below ground. You can stick a wood saw into the ground and saw these off a few cm below the surface, and they come up with roots already on them. Same with pomegranates, they throw up loads of baby trees around the base that can be extracted with roots already started. One thing I've noticed with figs and pomegranates is they play dead. They lose leaves or look terrible with yellow leaves and go bare for a few weeks then suddenly hundreds of new leaves show up, so don't give up on them too soon. And don't overwater.



Great info again Steve!! Thank you! I like the idea of cutting suckers below the surface...I'm sure I'll have plenty to go at with this giant fig!!

And funny you mention about playing dead, I had thought the pomegranates were gone beyond rekindling. They look terrible! Really pleased to learn that they are just pretending to be dead!
 
Shari Bee
Posts: 29
Location: Portugal, Zone 10A
forest garden homestead solar
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Lennan Bate wrote:One of my techniques for this particular land was to dig swales on the top terraces with ponds to collect the excess water (when it rains here, it floods everything). Hopefully, the water tables will benefit from the water soaking. Does your land has a slope ?



Hi Lennan, such a warm welcome! Thank you! Yes, the land is on a very gradual slope. I'd wondered about trying to incorporate swales somehow. I am wanting, like you I imagine? to hold the water in situ for as long as possible and let it soak back into the land. We get rain which seems to wash away, taking any good soil with it too! Do you dig the swales to direct water towards growing areas? Or simply as a slowing process? I thought about incorporating some kind of pond halfway up the land so that I can gravity feed water it down towards the main growing area.

I'm currently drawing up plans for the water management system. Early stages yet but it is all looking possible without power and fancy equipment.

That's a great Olive tree guild list, I'll try incorporate as much of this as possible. It would be interesting to compare notes and see what works best in each climate.
I have rosemary, lavender, oregano and thyme ready to plant. Would love to encourage some wild asparagus. I would also like to plant a sweet almond too. And possibly a date palm.

Lennan Bate wrote:Once I set up my design dossier for this land I'll send it to you if you interested, I would be glad to exchange more on your findings and ideas



Yes please, that would be great! I'll be starting the mapping exercise of the site shortly with photos and more site specific plans and notes. Such a huge task but very exciting!
Cheers
Shari
 
Lennan Bate
Posts: 15
2
bike fungi cooking
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi again Shari,

I noticed, when some of those heavy heavy rains happened here, how the entire land became a swamp (the soil is clay as I said before) or how the water would just gush down the terraced land is other areas. Of course after one or two days of sun, everything was dry again.
Traditional technique for the provence landscape was to terrace the hills with the Dry Stone technique. Unfortunately as the land has not be tend to, they are (almost) all falling down from erosion and lack of water in the lower grounds. Also, most of the terraces were not build on contour, so I wander if it was done on purpose (in order to have the water flow in a S shape down the slope) or just by “mistake“.

My approach with the swales was to concentrate the water from the heavy rains in certain areas (small ponds throughout the land) and to soak it in the ground as it badly needs it (most of the springs in the region are dried out now). My hope is that by soaking up as much water as I can in the ground and especially the lower grounds (there is a hard clay layer not so far below (about 2-3m I'm guessing) the ponds will maintain water all year long even during dry season, but that would only be possible if the whole land was soaked with water and was not “drinking“ off the water accumulated in the pond. This thread on sepp holzer's technique helped me figure this out : Sepp's Terraces
Here is a quote from someone on the forum, I'm sorry I can't find his name again to give him credit...

1) He has lots of ponds.  Some are deep.  Some are shallow.  In the shallow ponds, he puts lots of rocks.  The rocks heat the water and the water evaporates.  The air surrounding his farm becomes humid.  He gets more morning dew than average.

2)  Sepp plants no monocultures.  Everything is a mix of lots and lots of things.  And there is a strong focus on deep rooted plants.  Deep rooted plants reach deep water sources and can transpire the water out of their leaves adding to the general humidity.  Plus, there can be symbiosis between the deep rooted plant roots and fungi.  And between the fungi and shallow rooted plants.

3)  Terraces and hugelbeds do move and hold water when it rains - and then share it properly when it is dry.

4)  Rocks, rocks and more rocks ....  Rocks seem to be a major component in everything Sepp does.  Rocks have a powerful thermal intertia ...  If you stack a pile of rocks, air can move through the pile.  And the rocks in the middle will be quite cool.  If humid air moves through the pile, water will condense on the cooler rocks, thus creating a poor man's drip irrigation system. 




So that's what I did basically. And as we have had a weird May and June month with lots of series of heavy rain, although it has been super dry for a few weeks now, some ponds have kept water longer and longer, (one of them is still half full) :)

Another food for thought and design, here wild boars play the same “game“ as I do : they tend to take the same route through the land, almost on contour and by doing so they kinda dig swales, also, they like to build wallows which is kinda like ponds. So I followed their lead and enhanced their work, also following the natural “wetter“ areas of the land that were made obvious during heavy rains.

Here are a couple of photos ;)

IMG_2694.jpg
[Thumbnail for IMG_2694.jpg]
IMG_2633.JPG
[Thumbnail for IMG_2633.JPG]
IMG_2697.jpg
[Thumbnail for IMG_2697.jpg]
IMG_2687.jpg
[Thumbnail for IMG_2687.jpg]
IMG_2689.jpg
[Thumbnail for IMG_2689.jpg]
 
Bryant RedHawk
garden master
Posts: 4806
Location: Vilonia, Arkansas - Zone 7B/8A stoney, sandy loam soil pH 6.5
541
books chicken dog duck fish forest garden fungi homestead hugelkultur hunting pig
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Brilliant Lennan, not only using nature the way nature does things but also taking cues from the animals. Simply Brilliant!

Redhawk
 
Lennan Bate
Posts: 15
2
bike fungi cooking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Thank you Redhawk, that means a lot.
Unfortunately, people don't think the same way here and everyone hates the wild boars...

I really wish they were more documentation on wild boars in south of France, they're fascinating animals but are quite difficult to observe.
 
Bryant RedHawk
garden master
Posts: 4806
Location: Vilonia, Arkansas - Zone 7B/8A stoney, sandy loam soil pH 6.5
541
books chicken dog duck fish forest garden fungi homestead hugelkultur hunting pig
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I know about the weekly boar hunts in southern France, I am amazed that more people aren't injured the way they do it.

Wild boar are a huge problem here in the US, and it is getting larger every year.
Many States allow simple killing and let them lay where they fell, something I can not agree to doing.
In Arkansas it is legal to kill wild boar during any legal hunting season but they recommend using spiral traps since single kills don't really do anything to reduce the population.

Our hogs are American Guinea Hogs, they are one step away from being wild.

Two years ago there was a fellow in France that was attempting to do a comprehensive study on the wild boar population in Southern France.
I can't remember his name but you should be able to contact a university and get some information.

Redhawk
 
Lennan Bate
Posts: 15
2
bike fungi cooking
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hey,

Thanks yeah I'll check it out. Keep you posted here on my findings

What I have heard is that they are being fed by hunters which “diminishes“ the stress and allows population growth. I've also heard that they have been mixed with non-wild pigs so their litter has gotten much bigger from that mix.
I'm not sure how accurate those informations are though.

I'll find some documentation and come back with a digest
 
Bryant RedHawk
garden master
Posts: 4806
Location: Vilonia, Arkansas - Zone 7B/8A stoney, sandy loam soil pH 6.5
541
books chicken dog duck fish forest garden fungi homestead hugelkultur hunting pig
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Sadly I can't say that hunters feeding their prey surprises me. Pretty much the same effect as baiting here in the states, the animal learns where to go for an easy meal and boom, dinner table.
Wild crossed with domestic would classify those animals as feral, not true wild but domestic escapees that have gone wild, (we have a lot of those here).

I do hunt, but I use a bow to hunt unless I have to have the meat right now, something that so far has never occurred.

I look forward to reading about what you find out.
 
Shari Bee
Posts: 29
Location: Portugal, Zone 10A
forest garden homestead solar
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi Lennan, absolutely love the little ponds idea. I'll definitely be adapting that. Thank you for sharing! Anything that helps maintain the water table on the plot (it's so dry here) and keep water on the land for as long as possible is great. I had planned to create one largish pond about halfway up the plot to act as a reservoir for a gravity fed/drip feed irrigation system down into the lower 'garden' area. But having several ponds makes so much more sense. Especially when 'connected' by a series of swales. (Awesome observations and actions re the 'hog' swales and ponds btw!)

Thanks too for the Sepp link and that quote about the use of rocks! I like the simplicity of the rock piles, and will be incorporating this into the design too.

I'm currently researching/designing a water irrigation system that will pull water from the river without any need for power...a bit more testing but will post observations here once it's up and running and doing what it should be.

Love the photos...your land looks fabulous. Very GREEN! :)
 
Bryant RedHawk
garden master
Posts: 4806
Location: Vilonia, Arkansas - Zone 7B/8A stoney, sandy loam soil pH 6.5
541
books chicken dog duck fish forest garden fungi homestead hugelkultur hunting pig
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

I will attempt the fig thinning - it definitely needs it! - there are so Many tangled branches down low. Would I aim to prune off everything up to about 3 feet above soil level? Which would then start to create a clean central trunk? Then prune back the upper branches into the much reduced main stems?

On the fig...also wondered if it's possible to root some of the cut branches, so that I can create more fig trees?



I would try to get down to the base of the branches you want to remove. If you have or can make some willow bark water, that is a good rooting dip, just score the bottom  of the branch, dip in willow water and plant in a container. Cover the branch with some clear or white plastic to form a sort of cloche and wait for a couple of months so the roots have time to form.  You don't have to "clone" the whole branch, I use the fresh growth portion (about a foot of the top).
 
Shari Bee
Posts: 29
Location: Portugal, Zone 10A
forest garden homestead solar
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Bryant RedHawk wrote:

I would try to get down to the base of the branches you want to remove. If you have or can make some willow bark water, that is a good rooting dip, just score the bottom  of the branch, dip in willow water and plant in a container. Cover the branch with some clear or white plastic to form a sort of cloche and wait for a couple of months so the roots have time to form.  You don't have to "clone" the whole branch, I use the fresh growth portion (about a foot of the top).



This is great, thank you RedHawk. Just discovered willow water, have made up a batch for future rootings! 

 
Lennan Bate
Posts: 15
2
bike fungi cooking
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi again Shari,

I'm glad this could be of some help and inspiration!

I'm currently researching/designing a water irrigation system that will pull water from the river without any need for power...a bit more testing but will post observations here once it's up and running and doing what it should be.



For that, I had personally been very curious as to find a low tech or at least low energy input system for water pumpage. And I came across this beautiful invention the Hydraulic Ram. For the quick story, in the Versaille castle gardens, King Louis XIV had this system installed for his fountains, of course, there was no electricity back then, so it had to be mechanic. And for the cool fact, the hydraulic ram from the garden (which would be several hundreds of years old by now) still works :)
Here are some articles about that system, but I think they're only available in French here.. Versaille's Hydraulic Ram & The river Seine's System.

So as long as you have flow, you can have water pressure. Then again, good luck in building one of those yourself !!! If you end up buying one (they're quite an investment), I would be very curious what you think of it and make of it. I hear it makes a kind of banging noise (mechanics again !).


Or you could do it by hand.. hand pump
Or use electricity if you have wind : 200W Wind turbine
Both of those are in French I think but they will get translated, by me too eventually, so if you're very interested in one of those wikihows, give me a shout I'll start translating it ;)



To go further in understanding the potentials of such system here's Bill's class on Tromp  and Geoff's contribution through a Tromp animation


Sorry for the number of links !! But might as well give you a chance to select whatever you find is interesting or inspiring to you ;)
Best
Lennan
 
Lennan Bate
Posts: 15
2
bike fungi cooking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Love the photos...your land looks fabulous. Very GREEN! :)



Thanks ! It has been raining a lot this past couple of months so we'll see how the land holds up after the summer, I'll post some more photos then.
 
pollinator
Posts: 119
Location: Australia, Canberra
28
bee books dog fish forest garden
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Have a look at this address for a fig guild setup.

You could do a soil test first to see what is missing and try to top those up with the plants in a long term solution.



wp-image-154878437jpg.jpg
[Thumbnail for wp-image-154878437jpg.jpg]
 
gardener
Posts: 1751
Location: Just northwest of Austin, TX
183
forest garden urban
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I'm impressed by the level of detail they went into at that website.   I have seen detailed plant lists before. This is the first time I have seen such a detailed explanation of what roles each plant will fill, outside of the best published permaculture books.  Thank you.
 
pollinator
Posts: 248
35
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Gurkan - yes, thank you for that link. I've just been trying to root some fig trees, so that gives me more ideas and info of what to be propagating to go with.

Does anyone know whether inter-mixing Fig Guilds and Jujube (Ziziphus jujuba) guilds would work? It sounds as if the Jujube is a taller plant but I really don't know much about them yet - a friend gave me the seeds as a present because she knows I like, "weird edible plants". I could be known for worse things......

I also really like that "pothole" idea, so it will be interesting to see how that develops over time. Our cedar/fir forest seems to have done a similar thing based on potholes formed either by the shallow hole left when cedar/fir root balls are tipped over by winds, or when the downed tree lands across the slope. Unfortunately, Mother nature hasn't put these pot holes exactly where I might choose to have them to act as infiltration ponds to get a moisture plume under the areas I want to plant. I also have to be aware of creating stagnant water that would attract mosquitoes.
 
Shari Bee
Posts: 29
Location: Portugal, Zone 10A
forest garden homestead solar
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Gurkan Yeniceri wrote:Have a look at this address for a fig guild setup.

You could do a soil test first to see what is missing and try to top those up with the plants in a long term solution.



Hi Gurkan, great link, thank you!! I had stumbled across this fabulous site previously and loved the wealth of info and detail! Great resource, defintely on my bookmarked list!
Yes, been reading various soil focussed posts as initially directed by RedHawk...learning so much about soil building, and now very keen on understanding and exploring the soil aspect of the guild building process.
 
Gurkan Yeniceri
pollinator
Posts: 119
Location: Australia, Canberra
28
bee books dog fish forest garden
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
The only companion plant for fig that I know is Ruta graveolens




rue-botanical-003.jpg
[Thumbnail for rue-botanical-003.jpg]
 
Shari Bee
Posts: 29
Location: Portugal, Zone 10A
forest garden homestead solar
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Lennan Bate wrote:I had personally been very curious as to find a low tech or at least low energy input system for water pumpage. And I came across this beautiful invention the Hydraulic Ram.

So as long as you have flow, you can have water pressure. Then again, good luck in building one of those yourself !!! If you end up buying one (they're quite an investment), I would be very curious what you think of it and make of it. I hear it makes a kind of banging noise (mechanics again !).



Hi Lennan, how exciting! Yes, this is exactly the system I have at the heart of my off grid water pump design, although I know it as a 'ram pump' or a 'water hammer', it is the same simple technology you mention.
The ram pump is possible to build a version of this yourself. The 'banging' noise is the water being forced through the check valves as the water pressure builds and 'hammers' its way up the lift pipe. A pressure container is also required, to help build pressure and keep the flow...flowing! Its a beautifully simple technology!

I began designing the system I want to use on my plot by first isolating/identifying the separate components of my own site specific water challenges, then researched solutions for each element...stacking technologies together into one cohesive system. The overarching desire (for me) was to build a system that required no power, was automatic/autonomous, was simple enough to build myself, and so the whole system is a combination of hand pumps, ram pumps and different types of siphons. I'm almost there with the design. Building and testing next! Its a fairly complex (yet very simple) topic though, so maybe start another post for notes about the build and testing! Maybe there is some overlap with my site specific water challenges and yours? Maybe the ideal solution is a combination of the 'sepp terraces' you mentioned, and a system for lifting water uphill! :) Lets keep sharing 'water making' notes!

Lennan Bate wrote:Or you could do it by hand.. hand pump

Both of those are in French I think but they will get translated, by me too eventually, so if you're very interested in one of those wikihows, give me a shout I'll start translating it ;)



This manual pump construction looks very interesting. I'm looking at different hand pumps for the initial lift from the river into the my first container. If you do translate, I'd be really interested in seeing :)

Lennan Bate wrote:To go further in understanding the potentials of such system here's Bill's class on Tromp  and Geoff's contribution through a Tromp animation



Great links! Love the science behind the Tromp idea. Specifically the compressed air = fridge!

Thank you, never too many links! I'm always learning! :)
 
Lennan Bate
Posts: 15
2
bike fungi cooking
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Thank you Gurkan, Lots of good resources there :)

And Shari, here you go, I didn't translated myself, it was actually mostly done already, I just had to check the translation and voilà ! http://lowtechlab.org/wiki/Pompe_manuelle_(verticale)/en
Some parts are a bit weird english but you should be able to understand it !
Feel free to translate ome of it in portuguese if you have the time ! ;)

 
pollinator
Posts: 1597
Location: La Palma (Canary island) Zone 11
35
bike forest garden solar tiny house purity wofati
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I just want to be following the thread as it will be useful. I also have pomegranate, fig, olive trees.

I also have parsnip and it is freely self-seeding now (be careful, I got blisters from the leaves!), and comfrey, chicory, and aromatic of course. I don't know what did the job among what I planted, as this is by chance that my tree look better than when I arrived 7 years ago! I can see I do not have enough ruta graveolens and will add more! I have garlic but not the regular one, I use leaf garlic, especially a local one of course.
 
Xisca Nicolas
pollinator
Posts: 1597
Location: La Palma (Canary island) Zone 11
35
bike forest garden solar tiny house purity wofati
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Pomegranate with aromatics and artichoke.
P1180194.JPG
[Thumbnail for P1180194.JPG]
 
Shari Bee
Posts: 29
Location: Portugal, Zone 10A
forest garden homestead solar
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Lennan Bate wrote:
And Shari, here you go, I didn't translated myself, it was actually mostly done already, I just had to check the translation and voilà ! http://lowtechlab.org/wiki/Pompe_manuelle_(verticale)/en
Some parts are a bit weird english but you should be able to understand it !
Feel free to translate ome of it in portuguese if you have the time ! ;)


Hi Lennan, thank you for the translation, it is really helpful to have the English version. This manual pump will be an ideal way to lift water up from the river! Good way to exercise too! :) I added a Portuguese translation. Great link and many good low tech ideas on there. Thank you.


Xisca Nicolas wrote:I just want to be following the thread as it will be useful. I also have pomegranate, fig, olive trees.

I also have parsnip and it is freely self-seeding now (be careful, I got blisters from the leaves!), and comfrey, chicory, and aromatic of course. I don't know what did the job among what I planted, as this is by chance that my tree look better than when I arrived 7 years ago! I can see I do not have enough ruta graveolens and will add more! I have garlic but not the regular one, I use leaf garlic, especially a local one of course.



Hi Xisca, thanks for adding to the thread, always inspiring to see positive change! Have you seen improvement across all three tree types since you started? Did you plant parsnip under all three trees...olive, pomegranate and fig? If yes, has the impact been the same for each?
I hope to plant lots of aromatics too...lavender, Rosemary, thyme, mint, and of course lots of comfrey. Could you list the aromatics you have and any thoughts on their interactions with the three trees?
Did you forage the local leaf garlic, or source seeds. I hope to find some wild leaf garlic too. It's a great ground cover and a much more subtle taste than regular garlic.
 
Xisca Nicolas
pollinator
Posts: 1597
Location: La Palma (Canary island) Zone 11
35
bike forest garden solar tiny house purity wofati
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi Shari
I have not much to add, as I hope to be inspired by your thread! Those trees are not what I have most, and are also the ones with less other plants around! So I have no idea of the effect of interactions but you made me think I must plant more near them.... The wild garlic was already there and I should try to get more. About aromatics, artemisia are great too!
 
Not so fast naughty spawn! I want you to know about
Binge on 17 Seasons of Permaculture Design Monkeys!
http://permaculture-design-course.com
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
Boost this thread!