Cleaning out California forests...

Given the massive amount of destruction in California due to the wildfires, I am wondering if it would be possible to get a permit to help clean up areas?  either that were partly burnt or were untouched but host a tangle of live and dead debris that is waiting for another spark to set it aflame?  Take in a good wood chipping machine....chain saw...maybe a bagging machine....and haul out a huge liability for the state in the future and a huge asset for your compost pile.

This is where we should be subsidizing timber companies (rather than helping them log the closest stuff to old growth they can get) to do less economically rewarding thinning and chipping, then make it easier for the m or someone else to sell or spread those chips in deforested areas in need of erosion control or soil remediation. I think my first post on permies was about our need for “a great mulching” project on the order of 30s CCC works or greater. This would pay for itself in fire risk mediation, water retention and soil building. Also, felling dead and unhealthy trees close to on contour with the crown behind another stump or trunk would create quick check dams that would become essentially hugel beds that hold moisture and soil, dampening future fire runs up slope and stopping falling flaming debris that causes “j-runs” of fire on slopes that are a major hazards and causes of spread.

I am currently working on teaming with our local fire departments and landscapers to divert woody debris that would otherwise be burned to soil building on our Crescent City Food Forest site and other garden projects in the area.

Here in SD County, some community organizations have obtained permission(not sure if permits, private land, or what) to cut and sell partially burned logs as firewood. Many of them are designed for rehabilitation, sobriety, work-release programs, etc.  Job Corps, American Conservation Experience, and maybe even the Boy Scouts could do projects like these; seems like you could volunteer your expertise/equipment to one of these organizations for one of their work projects, and do some good.

Doing it yourself, for profit or without oversight/exorbitant permit fees? they'll never let that happen.

Ben Zumeta wrote:This is where we should be subsidizing...

While fire fuel (Forest and Chaparrel) mitigation is likely the best solution... I believe it should be an economically self sustaining private enterprise rather than being propped up by government subsidizies like a dependent benefits recipient. Handouts only encourage waste and cheating.

Just the Woolsey fire here in our area alone caused $6,000,000,000 in property damage.
The Camp fire in northern California caused even more damage... $7,000,000,000.

Get enough of these mismanagement caused disasters and pretty soon you're talking real money.

This is what happens when you get decades of NO forest management.  I do not mean timber cutting either.  The western forests are somewhat fire dependent and fire, of any kind, has been a no-no for decades.  Controlled burns would do more good for those forests than anything and would mitigate the huge fuel loading  that is there from decades of the enviros screaming about any type forest management.  Another thing about the western wildfires is what is called the urban/wildland interface.  Many people build in areas that in my humble opinion should be avoided.  Not saying they shouldn't be allowed to, but common sense should discourage building on the edge of a brush filled ravine on steep ground.  Most people have no clue how to fireproof a property to help mitigate any risk the surrounding environment may present.  I really feel sorry for those that have lost everything up to and including life in those fires.  devastating.

Any federal lands may now fall under the presidents executive order. HERE

Might be worth asking at your local forest service or BLM office if they are issuing permits under the new rules.

Well Greg, I hope we can enjoy our cheating on our subsidized roads using subsidized oil obtained through subsidized military exertion of power while drinking subsidized potable water. Many people, ourselves likely included, live on land obtained and settled by predecessors through the Homestead or Graves Acts, which was a subsidized land grab/give away that required the subsidized support of the military to protect settlers as they stole native people's land and resources. Also, most of the logging of 96% of our pre existing old growth forests was done through subsidized roads, infrastructure, and this may back up your point, a whole lot of fraud using the aforementioned land Acts to conglomerate land ownership into barons' hands. We are almost all cheaters by your definition, which may be fair, and may be part of our societal ennui and angst.

What I mean by subsidy in this case to mitigate fire hazards while improving soil and water retention is to permit waivers for the use of public resources (woody debris that also poses a fire hazard), and the allowance of profit (monetarily or indirectly) off the repurposing of those public resources. It would even be worthwhile for collectives, whether independent or local government agencies representing the permies, to invest in a large scale chippers, portable sawmills, or other equipment to help those without immense capital to both assist and benefit from fuels management. As you may know large scale chippers cost 6 figures. If we help more people make money off of ladder fuels, they will disappear remarkably quickly, and many hands make lighter work. Also, small scale subsidies like food stamps and unemployment insurance are recycled into the economy much more quickly and repeatedly, making them more effective stimulus of economic growth, so I am advocating helping more homeowner and small business (ie landscapers) be part of a fuels management-soil-water retention strategy. This is a form of subsidization, just a better one than we use to facilitate timber companies robbing the public and future. It would also be undoubtedly cheaper than funding firefighting and rebuilding after inevitable fires exacerbated by our logging/firefighting hist. Subsidies lowering the capital bar for engaging in an industry such as fuels management- may be prone to abuse, but so are almost every aspect of government or any collective endeavors. My main point is if we allow and show people how to profit off an overabundant resource like ladder fuels, we will be amazed by how fast they disappear.

Also, in California, at least my area, a 20$ permit allows you to collect 4cords of wood. Its supposed to be dead and down but I doubt that's well policed. I haven't done this, but would be very easy to repeatedly collect 4 cords a day of "firewood" that may be just for chips or hugels, and never get caught or questioned.

So I found this:

Forest products permit CNF

Basically, you can go out into the Cleveland National Forest (and harvest a cord of (already dead) wood for $25(max six cords/yr)).

Maybe the National Forest in your area has a similar program?  It's not a lot of wood, in terms of mitigation, but if there's enough people, it would help a little.  They concentrate the collecting area to within 100ft from the road, so, if picked clean, it would help extend a fire break.

There's four great paths for this:

1. Purchase land in the forest and clean it up. Contrary to popular opinion, you can cut down almost anything you want down to clear cutting if your heart desires. There are special rules around oaks, but you will not find many (realistically: any) oaks in wildfire prone areas. There are numerous grants available for private landowners to build a more resilient landscape and replant with diverse, fire-hardy species.

2. Join the USFS or CalFire where you will do this work on public lands. All fall/winter/spring most of the effort is spent around cleaning out undergrowth, burning piles, doing controlled burns, and clearing out standing dead.

3. Join the California Conservation Corps https://ccc.ca.gov/ where they will put a chainsaw on your back and send you out to the forest to clean up the forest.

4. Get firewood / Christmas tree permits and harvest your firewood from public lands. There's no rules that say you can't clear out standing dead and smaller trees.

From my own personal experience, I might suggest that one man with a woodchipper is not the right mindset to strive for. A woodchipper may be able to clean up maybe 10 acres a year (I'd guess closer to 5), assuming full time work in a low elevation (no snow) landscape, plentiful funds for gasoline, and mechanical expertise. Wood chippers don't travel well in the forest. But one man with a chainsaw and a can of diesel can clean up hundreds of acres per year with burn piles with similar effort.

There is plentiful motivation from the USFS and California government to clean up their forests. But the scale and terrain of our forests escape human imagination. Thirty three million acres of granite cliffs, flooded valleys, and high elevation bowls with hundreds of feet of standing snow in the winter. If you're passionate about this, I'd suggest to start small and local. Volunteering for CalFire is a great way to get more expertise in the nature and behavior of our wildfire ecosystem.

Kyle, those are good points. I would just say we need to move beyond burn piles and bury as much wood as possible. Where feasible, this can be done with excavators and other equipment often already on sites being managed for fire. In more remote locations, let gravity and natural uphill erosion carry the soil to trees felled nearly on contour (but with a slight cant).

Off interstate 80 in ca., immigrant gap, for at least 7 miles to the bottom, the forest floor had been cleaned. Up and down the mountain on both sides as far as I could see. Perfect piles had been made. Don't know how or who but it looked awesome!

It looks like a number of people are making biochar in California to clean water, reduce fuels and prevent wildfires.

December 3, 2020 - Usal Redwood Forest, Northern California. Today we made four cubic yards of biochar in three hours with a California Conservation Corps crew. I delivered a trailer with a set of five Ring of Fire Biochar Kilns to the site where the Redwood Forest Foundation, Inc. (RFFI) is working with the CCC to bring back a redwood forest. Since acquiring the Usal Redwood Forest in 2007, RFFI has been committed to restoring a landscape that has been severely degraded by aggressive timber harvesting which depleted the forest ecosystem.

Ring of Fire Kiln in the Redwoods

After seeing the hard work of firefighters and burn crews, as well as volunteering on a pile burn crew for several days this spring, I am confounded and concerned by the removal of old growth manzanitas that are the among most fire resistant plants in in North America. I have been taught by fire ecologists in southern California that manzanitas there help slow and stop burns due to their extremely high strike temperature, meaning they are very helpful in mitigating all but the most catastrophic burns. Yet here in Northern CA, manzanitas over 8” thick and 200yrs+ old are cut indiscriminately as if they are the same as the tinder-like young conifers. It seems this comes down to optics, economics and lack of education for clearing crews and those funding them.

I also have seen incised logging roads in these treatment areas bleeding the ground dry going unaddressed. An unmaintained or poorly designed road in this region is an open wound dehydrating the forest around it. Nearly all logging roads are poprly maintained and designed in this regard, as the profit motive for their builders is very short term. This makes me extremely concerned about the recent executive revocation of the Roadless Rule, allowing innumerable more of these gashes cut into watersheds. Last time I checked, fire does not like water. So maybe we would benefit from not sending it from mountain forests to the ocean as quickly as possible.

Ben Zumeta wrote:... Last time I checked, fire does not like water. So maybe we would benefit from not sending it from mountain forests to the ocean as quickly as possible.

Is this traditional lands of the Beaver People? There are groups working on reintroducing them, and they do truly admirable work at holding water on the land. I'm even aware of some Human People who traditionally disliked the Beaver People who've been won over by the evidence to the point of actively supporting their reintroduction and protection.

Perspective is so important. I recently watched a video which was complaining about a dam that was built in what they considered was a poor location. One reason given was that the type of dirt the water was over was too porous, so a lot of the water was seeping into the ground. From my permaculture perspective, my thought was, "oh, good, it's recharging the aquifers in the area."  

So it's important to consider who's paying to have work done on forests and if their only perspective is growing valuable timber trees, they aren't going to help reduce future fires. I think we need to stop calling timber plantations "forests" - they aren't, and they never will be, and if *everything* is about the economy, our great grandchildren will have nothing to inherit.

Ben Zumeta wrote:After seeing the hard work of firefighters and burn crews, as well as volunteering on a pile burn crew for several days this spring...

Hey Ben, I am curious what volunteering on that pile burn crew was like? I am familiar with volunteer trail maintenance workdays. You start the day with a quick safety briefing and then get on with it. Was it similar to that? Or did they want you to do training before the day of the work?

Harold Skania wrote:

Ben Zumeta wrote:After seeing the hard work of firefighters and burn crews, as well as volunteering on a pile burn crew for several days this spring...

Hey Ben, I am curious what volunteering on that pile burn crew was like? I am familiar with volunteer trail maintenance workdays. You start the day with a quick safety briefing and then get on with it. Was it similar to that? Or did they want you to do training before the day of the work?

The safety briefing occurred about filling and lighting drip torches. During this, several on the crew smoked cigarettes as they filled their torches with a gas-diesel mix, and the crew lead spilled about a cup of fuel on his pants. They did work hard though and were nice people.

I lived in northern California for ten years, till eventually the stress of ever-worsening fires made me a climate refugee at last.  I found that a few sheep were a key help in keeping my 1 1/2 acre homestead fire-suppressed, and I remember reading that a century or more ago, enormous herds of sheep were kept and managed at scale, being driven up into the higher ground in the summer and downslope in winter, eating up grass and whatever else they could reach.  Sometimes residues would even be set on fire after sheep had worked them over.  And before this, I also became aware of the Native practices around landscape burning, which improved yields of acorns and game animals.