Relationship theory…Looking for input!

So, I’ll start by stating my theory and then get into why I came to this conclusion…

“High school sweethearts” and similar romantic relationships that start out in adolescence are much more difficult to maintain than romantic relationships formed as mature adults. And although they are more difficult to maintain and therefore probably more likely to fail, they are also probably stronger than adult formed relationships, so long as they survive. Thats my theory anyway.

Now here is where this theory is coming from…

I “discovered” my wife the first day of school in 8th grade. We were 12 or 13 years old. I say “discovered” because we had been in the same small school before then but never noticed eachother until that day, and when I noticed her I was immediately infatuated. I’ll try to keep this brief, but to sum it up, we were kids. We didn’t know anything. We were together for 9 months then she broke my heart. A year or two passed and we tried again for a few months with the same ending. Several more years passed and we ended up getting back together after highschool. We lived together for a few years. This morphed into marriage, which we have been trying to hold together for 6 years now. Obviously, throughout all of that time we have been through a lot together. Hormones, high school drama, jobs, deaths, depression, health crisis, spiritual crisis, moving and a total change of perspective on my part. Basically, we have gone from ignorant little kids to full fledged adults together and either caused eachother trauma along the way or helped eachother through trauma along the way. Both really. But we are no longer the same people as we were when we first met, when we first fell in love or when we first got married. I am radically different and she’s struggling to adapt. We are so different fr how we used to be, and so different from eachother in so many ways that it often seems insurmountable. We are currently going through couples therapy and honestly it’s not looking great if you ask either of us.

This is an extremely complex situation and I dont have the time or energy to get into all of it now, especially typing as opposed to talking, but I’m just trying to get out my reasoning for this theory I have. It seems to me that the amount of personal growth that we have gone through has created all sorts of little traumas and coping mechanisms and have had a domino effect in our lives. And the dominoes seem to be getting out of control and leading down an ugly path that’s destroying both of us in more ways than one. We’re no longer naive, ignorant little kids with no responsibility. We’re 30, have a bunch of debt, work full time, own a house, have a variety of animals and life is stressful enough with all of that without even taking into consideration emotions, past traumas, children and the future. Once its all piled together it is very overwhelming for both of us, and we have developed very different ways of dealing with that.

Obviously, we’ve got no other adult romantic relationships to compare this to. We have been eachothers only serious relationship and it has lasted off and on, from childhood to now for 15 years. Its a lot of baggage. Baggage we didnt even know we were carrying. And now that we know we’re carrying it, figuring out why and how to proceed is a struggle.

It seems to me that if we would have crossed paths a couple years ago, having already developed into adults with responsibilities, priorities, values, personalities, beliefs and ideals, that we wouldn’t have all this baggage. Or it wouldn’t be so relevant. Or we could just see that we arent a good match and not get into it.  I feel like we’re in a position of realizing all of our past baggage and trying to sort through it all while we are surrounded by responsibilities and stress. And I feel like if we met as mature adults we could each say “heres all my baggage and where I’m at in the process of figuring it all out” and we could decide outright whether or not to get involved with eachother at that time in an informed manner. Right now, even if we’re afraid we are no longer a good match, there’s so much baggage, time, effort, emotions and history between us that throwing it all away is an absolute last resort for me. I wouldn’t see it as a “waste” but it would most certainly make me feel like we were either too weak willed to stick it through, were unwilling to adopt a more helpful attitude, were lazy, or just wanted the easy way out. Sure, maybe none of that is true and maybe its all ego and pride talking, but its how I feel. I believe our differences can be a good thing and that it mostly boils down to attitude and will. She believes some people are just not a good fit and that this shouldn’t be so hard.

What do you all think? Do relationships that start out when young get way messier and more difficult than relationships that start out as mature adults? Any surviving high school sweethearts out there that disagree? Or better yet, anyone out there have some advice on how to move forward, together or apart? I want whats best for her, always have. Whether that means alone, with me or with someone else, either way I want her to be happy and healthy and I want the same for myself.

This is where my brain took me, it might or might not be helpful in moving forward but it made my own thoughts a bit clearer to myself so I thank you for starting this thread.
I really hope you two find a way to somewhere better from the current situation.


I think life as a journey. You are walking on paths, making turns, climbing hills and sometimes you just lose the path and end up in a swamp.
There can be moments you really are traveling alone, but usually there is someone at least in the yelling distance plus the random passerby's you might just wave your hand to or maybe exchange a few words.
However, the people you are traveling with are on their own paths and at some point in time you might realize the road you two are walking hand in hand on is not leading you the right way and if you have been traveling together for a long time there's a chance you have both ended up on a personal detour. Or maybe you just have to go around the mountain you are looking at but from the different sides, and then you meet again on the other side.

The beautiful part is that there are no wrong roads, you will always be in the right place, the things you have gone through have built you up. Sometimes the experiences break you apart a bit (or a lot) but in the long run you'll notice it was a good thing to happen as there is no point in building on top a shaky foundation and you end up somewhere better.

Brody Ekberg wrote:that throwing it all away is an absolute last resort for me

You wouldn't be throwing it away, it all would not just disappear. You wouln't be you if you had not experienced all that you have experienced. It is what made you the way you are today and next week you will be slighty different person again.
I find it very comforting as I myself have found myself from many places that were not good for me in the past, but it all got me here. I like myself the way I am today, the location I have ended up, the life I lead. The path I'm on is looking beautiful at the moment and I'm really enjoying the views. I do know that there could be - well, there will be - a pothole or a branch or a person I don't notice coming up and I will fall or hit my head and hurt myself again. I might have obtained the skills to not break any bones when I fall or to duck just in time to not hit my head at all. Time will tell.

There's also the thought that if you decide to part ways you could still have a person in your life that knows you, really really well. They probably wouldn't be very close to you for a while but as the months and years go on you have a chance to build a different kind of beautiful relationship, one like a brother and a sister could have, or best friends.

Brody Ekberg wrote: She believes some people are just not a good fit and that this shouldn’t be so hard.

Um, no, I don't think so! Relationships can be hard, no matter what age people get together. A relationship being hard doesn't necessarily mean the couple are a "bad match". It does mean they are going through a bad patch aka a growth opportunity, and  commitment to staying in the relationship and growing it into something more is the only thing that will get them through. But commitment to the relationship shouldn't mean giving up our core, positive, most deeply held personal values or staying in a situation that is destructive.

I don't think being older necessarily makes it easier. Just different. I was 42 when I met and married my husband. Marrying when one has lived alone for many years and has a solo life that was pretty much working out fine and then trying to merge that life with another individual's is full of challenges. I suspect no one truly knows the person they married until the relationship is tested in the fire of crises and difficulties.

Marry late, and the challenge is that personality and lifestyle choices and sense of self are strongly set, and marriage demands flexibility, negotiation, growth, and change from both people. I think the challenge for those who marry young is that personality and sense of self weren't fully developed. Who a person thinks they are and what they think they want from life at sixteen may not be the same at thirty. And that means making marriage work means choosing to grow in the same direction as one's partner, which also demands flexibility, negotiation, growth, and change from both.

There is one extra challenge marrying young, and that's an idealised vision of what a relationship "should" be, thinking things could/should be better, and having nothing else to compare it to. Though changing partners chasing the "ideal" relationship affects people of any age, I think for those who've only had one romantic partner it might be harder to shake.

The questions around whether the relations can be saved and is worth saving might be: do you have shared values? Do you want the same things from life? Are you pulling in the same direction, or opposite directions? What does she want from the relationship and from life she feels she's not getting? What about you? Are there areas that can be negotiated, or have things got to the point where all that's visible is a pile of non-negotiables? Can you both let go of past hurts in the relationship and discover whether you can build something new and better together, even though it will be hard?

It sounds as if she has big serious fears around committing, and maybe is at a stage where it feels to her like she has to make a choice between being all-in at a deeper level in the relationship (terrifying!) or getting out while she can. Do what you can to help her feel safe. Even though you're likely afraid your heart will be broken again, work to keep your heart open to her.

I pray whichever way things go you both find healing for this painful situation.

Brody, I am only speaking my own thoughts here so take them for what you want.

It is totally normal to look at your long experience with your wife and think of it almost as an investment that you don’t want to lose.  You did have good times and a part of you still wants to experience those good times again.  And a part of you doesn’t want to loose these experiences forever.  Moreover, if you leave, and if you are still interested in romance, you have to start over.  Understandably, these are things you would rather not do.  This is all a perfectly normal set of emotions and there is nothing wrong for feeling the way you do.  Moreover, children, a house and debt all tend to weigh against separation.

With all that being said, I certainly can’t tell you what to do.  Only you can decide what is best in your situation.  I do wish you the very best in your difficult position and uncomfortable decision you may have to make.

But to your specific question—does marrying your high-school sweetheart make you prone to problems later?  That one I just don’t know.  I can say with certainty that I fell for my wife at exactly the right time in both of our lives—any younger and we (mostly me) would have been too immature for marriage.  And my wife was too career focused to get seriously romantically involved.  So speaking personally, my specific experience dovetails very nicely with what you suggest.

I do wish you the very best in whatever decision you end up making in the near future.

Eric

My wife and I got married when she was 18 and I was 22. We have been married more than 15 years, and we've known each other since I was 13 or 14. Marriage can be hard sometimes, we have certainly had our ups and downs, fights and hard times.

Nothing in life that is really worth doing is easy.

My wife and I are different people, we have different interests, and different personality types, she is a night owl, and I am a morning person. There are a few things that keep us together, we absolutely love each other. We are both Christians. And both of us give more than 50%, and what I mean by that is this: when things are tough and you are both fighting like cats and dogs do you cross to the other side and forgive, do you apologize when you are actually wrong.

I have learned the hard way to go the extra mile and extend the olive branch in peace, and so has my wife. I was not always the person I am today. Nobody is perfect, and I was much further from perfection when I was younger.

As long as you are both working together, to love each other and care for each other, you do not need to be the same person. In fact I cherish that my wife has an apposing viewpoint, many times her advice has helped me to see clearly on an issue that was cloudy to me.

I hope you make it.

Ben

Brody Ekberg wrote:“High school sweethearts” and similar romantic relationships that start out in adolescence are much more difficult to maintain than romantic relationships formed as mature adults. And although they are more difficult to maintain and therefore probably more likely to fail, they are also probably stronger than adult formed relationships, so long as they survive.

I don't know. I'm cautious about drawing general rules out of anecdotes, and even more so out of a single anecdote, but the theory seems reasonable enough. I'm also not sure what "stronger" means, unless it's just a measure of staying power. I'm not finding anything that looks precisely at age of courtship initiation. However, check this graph out (found here):



If you look at the women who get married at 18, they sort of have to be marrying something equivalent to a high school sweetheart. They have a pretty high divorce rate for ten years, then a moderate one for another ten, and then low for the rest of their life. And like, you have to get married young if you want to have fifty years of marriage, so it would be easy for the stats to over-emphasize those successes.

I saw another article that said getting married at 28-32 seems to be a sweet-spot for long term success, but it didn't much explore why and doesn't say anything about whether the partners were long-time romances before marriage...my guess would be not usually.

(Me personally -- at 52, I'm rounding the corner on 26 years of marriage and I think we've decided to stick it out. But I'd emphasize that even now it's work (and joy) every day to stay comfortably glued together.)

Good luck to you both on figuring out what's best for you and making it happen. It takes work, but I'm pretty sure it also takes luck.

As someone else said, I can't tell you what to do but I do think my story could shed some light on your situation.  I met my husband in the 7th grade and I thought he was the cutest boy I had ever seen.  He was very shy though and wouldn't even look at me.  Over the next few years, I kept an eye on him, learning all I could about his family and just him in general.  I knew some day I would make him mine.  Well, when we hit 10th grade, I had been dating a few years, not anything serious, just whoever had money for gas and burgers and was in for a few laughs with our group of friends.  I had never forgotten this guy though and decided if he wasn't going to notice me, I was going to have to get his attention.  We both lived in a rural area and his house was at the end of a long dirt road.  I spent my summers riding my horse all over those hills so one day I had on my halter top and bell bottom jeans with my long "Cher" hair flowing and I rode right up to his front yard.  He was working on his old mustang with his dad in the front yard (you'd have to grow up in the 60/70's in rural south to get this picture) and he had his shirt off.  My gosh that was the most perfect body I had ever seen in my life.  He was a bit surprised to see me but was polite.  He grabbed his shirt and put it on and the 3 of us talked small talk for a few minutes.  I asked if he'd like to go for a ride and he said sure.  He jumped on and off through the pastures and hills we rode and we both had the best day of our lives up to that point.  I'll skip all the rest but we were together ever day for the next year until school was out and he was going to go his own way.  Neither one of us could stand that so he proposed and we planned a quick wedding.  I was 16 and he was 18, again, not unusual for the rural south of that time.  

I will fast forward but it's now been 49 years of marriage and I feel so very blessed every day of my life that I have him but it was not easy.  He put me through college and I supported him through his career steps.  We had a son after 8 years of marriage, had a house mortgage, car payments, both had jobs, bills, our son had health issues, we both had families that could cause problems, and simply life happened.  There was a time when I was certain I had made a mistake and I wasn't getting the attention I felt I deserved from a husband.  Looking back, the problem was simply that I failed to communicate what I needed from a husband and he failed to communicate how much he truly loved me.  Stress of life made the grass look greener on the other side and I was just tired of trying.
I messed up, was forgiven, we both learned, and life got much better.  Then there was the period where he felt used, undervalued, bored and he disappointed me.  We had the hard conversations that needed to be had so we could see where we each stood in our deep feelings and we worked it out.  The great thing is we never both wanted out at the same time.  If we had it would probably have just ended.  Leaving was not the answer.  Finding someone else was not the answer.  Life would not have been easier had we split.  In fact, we both would have taken a hit financially, our son would have been devastated, and we would have just ended up finding someone else with baggage, as you call it.  The truth is, we still both loved each other.  We admired so many things about each other and yes, we both were very different people by then.  I was one person when we met, another in my 20's, a completely different person in my 30's, and probably didn't finally figure out who I really am until my 40's to 50's.  

Over the years we learned to have those hard conversations as a fellow partner, not as an adversary.  I no longer take certain things personal because I understand why he does or doesn't do certain things and I give him the grace to be himself.  I am so thankful that he knows my quirks and does not hold them against me.  In fact, he knows me better than I know myself so he knows when I need comfort before I even see the freak out coming.  We make sure we always speak to each other the way we would want to be spoken to.  We do things for each other all the time and we don't forget to say please and thank you.  It sounds trivial but we must treat our partner as the most important person on earth because they are.  I'm no longer afraid to tell him what's on my mind and he no longer has to worry if or why I'm mad at him.  We are now in our 60's and facing old age together.  I look back and the one thing I could always count on was his support no matter how crazy my idea seemed at the time.  We are very different people but our personalities fit like two pieces of a puzzle.

I don't think there is a marriage that has not been tested.  Sometimes what you are running from is the problem, the stress of that life, the rat race, the hope that there must be something better out there besides work and paying bills.  Heck some people go through numerous marriages before they figure it out.  You have to be happy with you before you can be happy with anyone else so look inside before you look to the marriage as the problem.  Forgive the past mistakes, learn to communicate by saying calmly what you mean and mean what you say.  Then, try not to over-react when she shares her thoughts.  You want her to feel safe to tell you what's on her mind.  I'm glad you are both going to therapy where you will learn how to work together.  In the end, if you stay it will take hard work but if you leave, it will take hard work and then you will have to start all over again.  Short of addictions, abuse, or lack of love, I think most any marriage can be improved.  Please keep us posted on your progress.  We are all hoping for the best outcome, whatever that may be.                  

Unless as a mature adult you entertained the idea of rekindling a new relationship with your ex who has NOT done the emotional work.  Then you'll feel like you were emotionally dragged back 30 years by a freight train.  

I know some couples that it worked for,  when they had both taken the time to grow and heal and mature their emotional intelligence.

I do know that NOW at 52 I have a much clearer understanding of what a healthy relationship looks like.   I wonder if the discrepancy between youthful relationships and mature relationships is influenced by relationship role models while growing up.   It's a long hard path to learn it all for yourself starting from a foundation of poor examples and misunderstanding of what love looks like.  Those youthful feelings are pretty strong though, and not easily tempered by the lense of experience and maturity.  Then, we know what we are ATTRACTED to, but I don't think we know how much more it takes.    Love is great, but  there needs to be trust and respect and genuine care for the experience of the other person too.   Love and attraction alone can't get it done.   Couples who grow into it on the same timeline and share the journey maybe are more successful?  

Still figuring this stuff out.   I did just recently come across a video discussion the 7 foundation tenets of what TRUST actually is, and how it's built and maintained.  That was a really needed lesson for me to delve into and take a hard look at.   It explained a lot of things relating to "I love you but I don't trust you"  problems.  

Interesting disscussion.   Timely and helpful for me ;)  

adding a link to the text version of the 7 components of building trust in case it's useful to someone else too:   https://brenebrown.com/resources/the-braving-inventory/

Hi Kay,

Well said.  My wife and I have also been together for just shy of 50 years.  Other than knowing one another since childhood, what you said could apply to us or anyone else in a very long term relationship.  Many years ago someone commented to me that one has to work at having a successful marriage.   They were right.

Jane Mulberry wrote:

Brody Ekberg wrote: She believes some people are just not a good fit and that this shouldn’t be so hard.

Um, no, I don't think so! Relationships can be hard, no matter what age people get together. A relationship being hard doesn't necessarily mean the couple are a "bad match". It does mean they are going through a bad patch aka a growth opportunity, and  commitment to staying in the relationship and growing it into something more is the only thing that will get them through.

I used to feel this way, but now, older and I hope wiser, I tend to agree with his wife actually.  I think most everyone agrees if you phrase it a little differently.  Is there anyone that thinks everyone is a good fit for them?  If not, then you agree that some people just aren't a good fit.  If you are with someone that isn't a good fit, it's going to be very hard indeed.  I used to think relationships were hard.  Now I tend to think relationships are hard if you are in the wrong one.  Don't get me wrong, I don't think things are always easy, there will be disagreement and sometimes hurt feelings, but if the overall feeling of a relationship is that it is a struggle most of the time, I think it's time to move on.  You probably want different things and would probably both be happier with someone else.  As others have said, I think it's a mistake to count this as a failure.  People grow, change, want different things in life.  Not being in the right relationship now doesn't mean it never was.  It just means you want different things now.  I think it's wrong to try to fit someone into a role they don't want, aren't suited for, or aren't interested in.  People have every right to follow their own path, whatever it may be, no matter how hard that realization is.

I agree completely, Trace. If a relationship is hard all the time, something is wrong.

And I also think some people justify leaving when going though a hard patch by rationalising that things being hard mean they aren't a good fit. For most of us, being a good fit means having some rough edges sanded off, or even maybe a piece or two cut away altogether, like you would do when joining timber.

But for some people, the differences are too great and to "fit" one of both would need to compromise on core values. As I said before, commitment to the relationship shouldn't mean giving up our core, positive, most deeply held personal values or staying in a situation that is destructive.

That's when wisdom says it's time to leave, and not a failure but an act of maturity.  

Knowing how to deal with conflict and challenges is a skill. With any skill what age a person learns it will differ based on many factors.

From reading that the conflicts and challenges have resulted in trauma, my guess is both of you could use help improving your skills for handling conflict, challenges, and how to heal trauma.

Saana Jalimauchi wrote:This is where my brain took me, it might or might not be helpful in moving forward but it made my own thoughts a bit clearer to myself so I thank you for starting this thread.
I really hope you two find a way to somewhere better from the current situation.


I think life as a journey. You are walking on paths, making turns, climbing hills and sometimes you just lose the path and end up in a swamp.
There can be moments you really are traveling alone, but usually there is someone at least in the yelling distance plus the random passerby's you might just wave your hand to or maybe exchange a few words.
However, the people you are traveling with are on their own paths and at some point in time you might realize the road you two are walking hand in hand on is not leading you the right way and if you have been traveling together for a long time there's a chance you have both ended up on a personal detour. Or maybe you just have to go around the mountain you are looking at but from the different sides, and then you meet again on the other side.

The beautiful part is that there are no wrong roads, you will always be in the right place, the things you have gone through have built you up. Sometimes the experiences break you apart a bit (or a lot) but in the long run you'll notice it was a good thing to happen as there is no point in building on top a shaky foundation and you end up somewhere better.

Brody Ekberg wrote:that throwing it all away is an absolute last resort for me

You wouldn't be throwing it away, it all would not just disappear. You wouln't be you if you had not experienced all that you have experienced. It is what made you the way you are today and next week you will be slighty different person again.
I find it very comforting as I myself have found myself from many places that were not good for me in the past, but it all got me here. I like myself the way I am today, the location I have ended up, the life I lead. The path I'm on is looking beautiful at the moment and I'm really enjoying the views. I do know that there could be - well, there will be - a pothole or a branch or a person I don't notice coming up and I will fall or hit my head and hurt myself again. I might have obtained the skills to not break any bones when I fall or to duck just in time to not hit my head at all. Time will tell.

There's also the thought that if you decide to part ways you could still have a person in your life that knows you, really really well. They probably wouldn't be very close to you for a while but as the months and years go on you have a chance to build a different kind of beautiful relationship, one like a brother and a sister could have, or best friends.

Well, I most certainly agree that what we’ve been through is not a “bad” thing because it’s obviously been successful enough to get me to today. And honestly, I’m happy. I’m happy with my mind, my body, my outlook on life, my house and property, my ideals, my goals. And I’m happy with my wife overall, but it really hinges on her attitude. She’s the sweetest most caring and fun person when she’s happy. But when she’s upset, which has been so frequent for years now, she is absolutely miserable. So, I dont look at the things that have happened in the past as a problem or unfortunate, I look at them as the necessary process to get me to now, and now is a good place to be. She has a very different way of looking at things though, and it takes a toll on her, me and others around her, and she wont allow anything to change that.

As far as keeping her in my life if we part ways, that is highly unlikely. Yes she knows me pretty well, although sometimes when she paraphrases my thoughts or feelings she gets them totally wrong. And yes it would be nice if I had a friend that knew me as well as she does. But I’m not interested in slipping around on a steep slope. I’ve been separated from her but around her before and it’s horrible. I was much better off when I basically cut her out of my life and moved on. If we divorce I feel like interacting with her would be torture. Plus, I know some straight men and women can be attracted to eachother and stay “just friends” but I dont think I’m one of those people. It doesn’t make any sense to me and doesn’t feel very likely. If a man and a woman love eachother and are attracted to eachother then a simple friendship seems nearly impossible, especially with a history like ours.

Jane Mulberry wrote: I think the challenge for those who marry young is that personality and sense of self weren't fully developed. Who a person thinks they are and what they think they want from life at sixteen may not be the same at thirty. And that means making marriage work means choosing to grow in the same direction as one's partner, which also demands flexibility, negotiation, growth, and change from both.

There is one extra challenge marrying young, and that's an idealised vision of what a relationship "should" be, thinking things could/should be better, and having nothing else to compare it to. Though changing partners chasing the "ideal" relationship affects people of any age, I think for those who've only had one romantic partner it might be harder to shake.

The questions around whether the relations can be saved and is worth saving might be: do you have shared values? Do you want the same things from life? Are you pulling in the same direction, or opposite directions? What does she want from the relationship and from life she feels she's not getting? What about you? Are there areas that can be negotiated, or have things got to the point where all that's visible is a pile of non-negotiables? Can you both let go of past hurts in the relationship and discover whether you can build something new and better together, even though it will be hard?

It sounds as if she has big serious fears around committing, and maybe is at a stage where it feels to her like she has to make a choice between being all-in at a deeper level in the relationship (terrifying!) or getting out while she can. Do what you can to help her feel safe. Even though you're likely afraid your heart will be broken again, work to keep your heart open to her.

I pray whichever way things go you both find healing for this painful situation.

I think you described exactly my thoughts: personality and sense of self weren’t fully developed. At least not for me. She kind of seems to feel like she was developed and that she’s had to let a lot of that go because of me. I feel like she had to let most of it go because we were kids and now we’re adults and thats what happens. Cant hang with friends and play sports all day forever. At a certain point, you gain responsibility, new priorities, people go their separate ways and people necessarily need to distance themselves from certain aspects of their past in order to make room for the future. She looks at that like a tragedy and I look at it like the process of life.

I know for sure I didn’t develop a real personality or sense of self until we separated and I dove inward, experimenting with psychedelics, discovering independence, entire new genres of music and a belief system that works for me. This happened as a solo mission for me and has definitely shaped me in many ways.

As far as idealizing what a successful relationship “should be” I dont really do that. But I know she does quite a bit. I think a lot of it stems from reality tv, romantic hallmark movies, romance books and social media. All things that I have far less experience with than her. She will go on social media, see what others are doing and then feel dejected and like she’s missing out. Or see them on a vacation and decide she needs a vacation. Or see them smiling for the camera and decide she doesn’t smile enough.

I grew up with parents who probably should have divorced decades ago. I’m used to seeing dysfunctional marriages. Honestly, I dont know any married couple that love spending as much time together as possible, never argue, have a bunch of the same interests and values and prioritize the same things. This is a fantasy as far as I’m aware of. But our relationship, despite its hardships, is better than that in my opinion. Because we talk. We try to communicate. We know where “normal” is trying to take us and consciously fight it. We go to counseling. These are all things that i never witnessed with my parents or any of the married couples I was aware of growing up. For them, women hated their husbands, husbands hide from their wives and create as much distance as possible. They dont communicate or even try. Counseling is embarrassing.

So sure, we arent perfect but in my mind we’re in a hell of a lot better place than where the odds seem to bring people at least in my life.

As for shared values and going in the same direction: I agree that this seems crucially important. But we are not necessarily on the same page. I mean we are to an extent (both want 1-2 kids, both value healthy childhood development, both value health, both think homeschooling is probably preferred) but we have a huge difference in the speed at which we’re travelled down that path. And the logistics of it all clash. I work full time and afterwards spend as much time as possible working on the house, gardens, trees, chickens and firewood. Im a hard worker and feel best when I’m productive. She values relaxation and fun way more than me. Im goal oriented and shes feeling oriented. And she highly values sports so she’s always coaching, reffing, going to games, practices, tournaments… I dont think it’s silly but I’m also not interested. My passions are in nature, food and sustainability. Its like as we pursue our passions we get farther apart. Mine lead me to spend more time outside doing work (which I love) and hers lead to her being gone all of the time. So simple things like cooking, dishes, laundry, home repairs and cleaning are a huge struggle to keep up with since she’s all over the place and I’m gone 8 hrs a day and have a lot of work to do afterwards. I even told her recently that I respect her values and passions but I dont understand how she can uphold all of the running around constantly while simultaneously wanting children, probably homeschooling, eating good food and being healthy. I dont see how that can all fit together. People who constantly are gone end up reverting to fast food, irregular schedules, late nights, and just not being at home much. I cant live like that but also cant be expected to do everything myself.

Finding that balance is so difficult and we haven’t gotten there yet!

Eric Hanson wrote:Brody, I am only speaking my own thoughts here so take them for what you want.

It is totally normal to look at your long experience with your wife and think of it almost as an investment that you don’t want to lose.  You did have good times and a part of you still wants to experience those good times again.  And a part of you doesn’t want to loose these experiences forever.  Moreover, if you leave, and if you are still interested in romance, you have to start over.  Understandably, these are things you would rather not do.  This is all a perfectly normal set of emotions and there is nothing wrong for feeling the way you do.  Moreover, children, a house and debt all tend to weigh against separation.

With all that being said, I certainly can’t tell you what to do.  Only you can decide what is best in your situation.  I do wish you the very best in your difficult position and uncomfortable decision you may have to make.

But to your specific question—does marrying your high-school sweetheart make you prone to problems later?  That one I just don’t know.  I can say with certainty that I fell for my wife at exactly the right time in both of our lives—any younger and we (mostly me) would have been too immature for marriage.  And my wife was too career focused to get seriously romantically involved.  So speaking personally, my specific experience dovetails very nicely with what you suggest.

I do wish you the very best in whatever decision you end up making in the near future.

Eric

Thank you, I really appreciate it!

Ben House wrote:My wife and I got married when she was 18 and I was 22. We have been married more than 15 years, and we've known each other since I was 13 or 14. Marriage can be hard sometimes, we have certainly had our ups and downs, fights and hard times.

Nothing in life that is really worth doing is easy.

My wife and I are different people, we have different interests, and different personality types, she is a night owl, and I am a morning person. There are a few things that keep us together, we absolutely love each other. We are both Christians. And both of us give more than 50%, and what I mean by that is this: when things are tough and you are both fighting like cats and dogs do you cross to the other side and forgive, do you apologize when you are actually wrong.

I have learned the hard way to go the extra mile and extend the olive branch in peace, and so has my wife. I was not always the person I am today. Nobody is perfect, and I was much further from perfection when I was younger.

As long as you are both working together, to love each other and care for each other, you do not need to be the same person. In fact I cherish that my wife has an apposing viewpoint, many times her advice has helped me to see clearly on an issue that was cloudy to me.

I hope you make it.

Ben

A little tangent here, but do you see your shared Christianity as being one of the key factors to your marriage staying together? Neither of us are religious. I have a fundamental spiritual belief system but it is unorthodox to say the least. I honestly dont know her views on spirituality and God. Years ago she never wanted to talk about it and lately there have just been more pressing issues to get through than philosophizing about unprovable beliefs. But I can absolutely see how a common faith would be hugely helpful. I even suggested trying to come to a common belief system between the two of us a few years ago but it didnt work out.

I also totally agree with “nothing worth doing in life is easy” but I would be shocked if she agreed to that statement.

As for giving more than 50% and striving for forgiveness in disputes, she really struggles with that. I try to be open minded, humble, respectful and genuinely listen. But she has gotten to a point of extreme defensiveness around me. Shes very much a fighter and tends to like to get even. She has gotten much better at apologizing and I always accept it and thank her afterwards.

I too cherish our differences. I’m well aware that I wouldn’t be who I am or how I am without her. And I believe our differences could combine into a fantastic environment for raising healthy children, IF we handle things well and make it that far! She just is tired. Literally tired (lack of sleep) but also tired of trying, putting in effort and struggling in more ways than one. And this isnt all about us because she definitely has some underlying issues outside of our relationship that certainly have a role in this.

Christopher Weeks wrote:

Brody Ekberg wrote:“High school sweethearts” and similar romantic relationships that start out in adolescence are much more difficult to maintain than romantic relationships formed as mature adults. And although they are more difficult to maintain and therefore probably more likely to fail, they are also probably stronger than adult formed relationships, so long as they survive.

I don't know. I'm cautious about drawing general rules out of anecdotes, and even more so out of a single anecdote, but the theory seems reasonable enough. I'm also not sure what "stronger" means, unless it's just a measure of staying power. I'm not finding anything that looks precisely at age of courtship initiation. However, check this graph out (found here):



If you look at the women who get married at 18, they sort of have to be marrying something equivalent to a high school sweetheart. They have a pretty high divorce rate for ten years, then a moderate one for another ten, and then low for the rest of their life. And like, you have to get married young if you want to have fifty years of marriage, so it would be easy for the stats to over-emphasize those successes.

I saw another article that said getting married at 28-32 seems to be a sweet-spot for long term success, but it didn't much explore why and doesn't say anything about whether the partners were long-time romances before marriage...my guess would be not usually.

(Me personally -- at 52, I'm rounding the corner on 26 years of marriage and I think we've decided to stick it out. But I'd emphasize that even now it's work (and joy) every day to stay comfortably glued together.)

Good luck to you both on figuring out what's best for you and making it happen. It takes work, but I'm pretty sure it also takes luck.

Fascinating study. And its kind of a relief to hear that at 26 years in it’s still work. I can accept that and work with it. I would expect my wife to feel that if its still work at 26 years that its a “bad match” but without asking her that’s just my assumptions.

kay fox wrote:As someone else said, I can't tell you what to do but I do think my story could shed some light on your situation.  

I don't think there is a marriage that has not been tested.  Sometimes what you are running from is the problem, the stress of that life, the rat race, the hope that there must be something better out there besides work and paying bills.  Heck some people go through numerous marriages before they figure it out.  You have to be happy with you before you can be happy with anyone else so look inside before you look to the marriage as the problem.  Forgive the past mistakes, learn to communicate by saying calmly what you mean and mean what you say.  Then, try not to over-react when she shares her thoughts.  You want her to feel safe to tell you what's on her mind.  I'm glad you are both going to therapy where you will learn how to work together.  In the end, if you stay it will take hard work but if you leave, it will take hard work and then you will have to start all over again.  Short of addictions, abuse, or lack of love, I think most any marriage can be improved.  Please keep us posted on your progress.  We are all hoping for the best outcome, whatever that may be.                  

Thank you for sharing your story, it really was comforting to hear that!

I totally agree with your stating “you have to be happy with you before you can be happy with anyone else”. This could be a significant issue for her as she has never lived alone or even really spent much time alone ever. Always been with friends, family, teammates or me. I have spent years alone and discovered confidence, independence and a belief system that works for me. She is missing many of those things. But at this point, the only way for her to experience that would be us divorcing and her taking off on her own. And I’d prefer that than an unhappy marriage.

I am in no way blameless in this. I was emotionally detached for years, invalidated her feelings, told her she’s overreacting (which was true many times but also not helpful to say).

She is in the process of trying to learn how to forgive what she can’t forget. And also I’m (and our therapist) really trying to emphasize the importance of her being respectful and calm during conversation because thats not at all the case now and it leads to me having a very hard time staying present with the conversation without detaching.

As for abuse, we probably both have been emotionally abusing to a degree. Me by being detached and invalidating her and her by just reacting in rage, throwing tantrums, being rude and disrespectful.

The lack of love thing seems close but not yet here. I do love her and she says she loves me still. Its just hard to feel it while struggling intensely for so long!

Heather Staas wrote:
I wonder if the discrepancy between youthful relationships and mature relationships is influenced by relationship role models while growing up.   It's a long hard path to learn it all for yourself starting from a foundation of poor examples and misunderstanding of what love looks like.  Those youthful feelings are pretty strong though, and not easily tempered by the lense of experience and maturity.  Then, we know what we are ATTRACTED to, but I don't think we know how much more it takes.    Love is great, but  there needs to be trust and respect and genuine care for the experience of the other person too.   Love and attraction alone can't get it done.   Couples who grow into it on the same timeline and share the journey maybe are more successful?  

Still figuring this stuff out.   I did just recently come across a video discussion the 7 foundation tenets of what TRUST actually is, and how it's built and maintained.  That was a really needed lesson for me to delve into and take a hard look at.   It explained a lot of things relating to "I love you but I don't trust you"  problems.  

Interesting disscussion.   Timely and helpful for me ;)  

adding a link to the text version of the 7 components of building trust in case it's useful to someone else too:   https://brenebrown.com/resources/the-braving-inventory/

I think we both had relatively poor relationships as an example growing up. I mean neither of us were disadvantaged or abused but my parents have always seemed at odds and figured they would have divorced after my sister and I graduated highschool. Her parents SEEM happy to an outside view, definitely more so than mine. But her dad has said several things to me in private that imply its a struggle for them too. Her mom is a lot to handle and her dad doesn’t handle emotions well, tends to be a “people pleaser” and suppresses things. Looks nice on the outside but inside is a different story.

So yes, that certainly has an effect. I knew as a child that what I was learning from my parents relationship was more what NOT to do than what TO do, though both are valuable lessons.

And yes, love and attraction most definitely are not going to hold people together and thats what we are figuring out now. How to respect eachothers values, perspectives and emotions without trying to change them.

Thank you for the link!

Trace Oswald wrote:

I used to think relationships were hard.  Now I tend to think relationships are hard if you are in the wrong one.  Don't get me wrong, I don't think things are always easy, there will be disagreement and sometimes hurt feelings, but if the overall feeling of a relationship is that it is a struggle most of the time, I think it's time to move on.  You probably want different things and would probably both be happier with someone else.  As others have said, I think it's a mistake to count this as a failure.  People grow, change, want different things in life.  Not being in the right relationship now doesn't mean it never was.  It just means you want different things now.  I think it's wrong to try to fit someone into a role they don't want, aren't suited for, or aren't interested in.  People have every right to follow their own path, whatever it may be, no matter how hard that realization is.

I guess I just feel like theres a better way for people to be and that we are all on that same path, just at different stages. We all want to be happy and healthy right? We all want a good nights sleep right? We all want to enjoy what we eat right? We all should be respectful, humble, confident, open minded, loving and grateful right? We’re all humans so our physical needs are all the same (air, water, food, shelter, sleep) and it would be preferable that future humans have the ability to meet their needs right? So that would make sustainability a priority.

These are all ways in which I feel all humans are the same. But we are at different stages. Some very naive and ignorant. Some wise and experienced. Some in between. Some completely lost and confused. Finding the “right” person seems more like a timing issue than anything to me. Like if I’m ignorant and naive, my needs are exactly the same as the wise experienced person, I just donk know that. And because I dont know it, i dont believe it, wont admit it and will straight up disagree with it. But none of that makes it untrue, its just showing that I’m at a different stage of the same path than the other person.

Using this view, I certainly have tried to drag her along down the path faster than she’s comfortable. And I knew that. But she values comfort much more than me. Most of the meaningful things in my life have been extremely uncomfortable and its gotten me where I am today so I have no desire to stay comfortable on my path of life. She very much wants to be comfortable though and so our paces on this shared path are at odds. She thinks I’m racing along when I feel like I’m riding the brakes!

Jane Mulberry wrote:

But for some people, the differences are too great and to "fit" one of both would need to compromise on core values. As I said before, commitment to the relationship shouldn't mean giving up our core, positive, most deeply held personal values or staying in a situation that is destructive.

That's when wisdom says it's time to leave, and not a failure but an act of maturity.  

We do need to discuss our core values in more depth because I agree that if they are different then this will likely not improve. And as for the situation being destructive, it certainly has been. I think now that we are aware of that it is improving a bit but yes, we need to not be in a destructive situation for this to work.

I agree too that if we part ways it would not be a “failure” but a mature move to better our lives. I think we would both rather keep this together and improve our relationship though, for many reasons.

Jeff Bosch wrote:Knowing how to deal with conflict and challenges is a skill. With any skill what age a person learns it will differ based on many factors.

From reading that the conflicts and challenges have resulted in trauma, my guess is both of you could use help improving your skills for handling conflict, challenges, and how to heal trauma.

For sure! In my opinion she is horrible at handling conflict and challenges. But she thinks my way of handling is inappropriate as well. This is where the therapist has been helpful bringing a 3rd outside perspective. And a professionally trained one at that.

As for dealing with trauma, we also see that differently. She thinks it requires a lot of looking into the past. I think it’s important to watch where you’re going (forward) and set your eyes on the prize (health and wellness). I see trauma as being a blessing in a way because it shaped me into what I am now. She sees trauma as an unfortunate thing that should not have happened and the results need to be fixed…