Food Forest / Roadside Orchard - Unpleasant Drama

I guess no good deed goes unpunished. I had an unpleasant encounter yesterday and it left a bitter taste. Pardon me while I rant.

Right beside my long steep driveway there is a bit of a hollow. A few Saskatoon bushes were struggling to get a foothold, so I started helping them. Over five years, summer and winter, I diverted snow and runoff water into the hollow, added a bit of compost and raw char, and introduced soil building plants --sweet clover, white clover, red clover, alfalfa. I cut out competitors (poplar) and nuisance plants (wild rose). Small, small actions that add up over time. The patch expanded vigorously. This year the patch was loaded with berries.

Technically it's on the public road allowance, so I can't claim ownership. Yesterday, a group of people showed up without notice from a neighbouring property, stood on my driveway and started picking. I know these folks, they have my cell number. They could have been courteous and reached out, as I would have if the situation were reversed. I don't mind sharing.

After the group had been picking furiously for an hour, clearly intending to pick the patch clean, I made a passing comment that it would be nice if they left some for me and explained some of the things I had done for years to make this patch productive when others were not.

Instead of appreciation for my patient and thoughtful curation, I received angry drama and a string of vitriol.

Result: There's a 50/50 chance I will chop the whole thing down. It's not worth the hassle. The source of conflict will no longer exist. And the world will be a better place, right?

While your exact reaction to cut it all down is my first as well, i have found myself attempting to be a better person and to use kindness where a younger me would have met them at their same level of vitriol and beaten them with experience. I attempt (poorly) to imitate Christ because I am a Christian, but even outside of religion, we can all aspire to be a better version of ourselves. If you know these people, take them a basket of fruit, explain to them that you didn't mean to come off the way you did, but that you had been putting plenty of effort into saving those plants and helping them thrive, with the hope of enjoying some of the fruits of your labor. They may take it and you might make closer friends, or they may slam the door in your face, Either way, you've done more than your fair share to be kind to them, whether they deserve it or not. I'm not familiar with the plants you are referring to, but perhaps you can take some cuttings or suckers and start some new bushes, well away from the public right of way, and if things worked out between you and them, maybe start a few for them as well.

I can't think of a higher compliment Douglas than what you have experienced! You have tended, cultivated, and improved a semi-public space in such a way that it appeared to be a 'wild' berry oasis. These neighbors stumbled upon it and saw the value of the edibles that you have nurtured.

I don't know the specifics because I was not there, but I'd almost guarantee that these folks did not appreciate that this space was tended. It surely must of been natural in their eyes. Your guiding hand carefully influenced the space as a polyculture and it was successful. I can't help but think of the way-back days where settlers couldn't understand that the native people's were actively tending forests and thought it was all wild spaces that just-so-happened to be full of food.

I'd beseech you to sleep on the interaction before considering removing these thriving plants. People can be crude and self centered but I read this experience as praise for your work. How possibly could one person get these plants to fruit so readily surrounded by all these other plants?

I like the idea of starting a bunch of babies and dropping them off on their porch with a note saying something like, "here is your future source of Saskatoon berries. This is the sort of soil they like."

Or you can just ignore them because it's quite possible that by next year, they will decide they're too much work to pick. Hmmm... maybe there was a reason to leave some of the wild rose in key access points?

A long time ago, vineyard owners would spray a mixture of copper sulfate and lime on roadside vines to deter theft. Someone eventually realized that this mixture also is good at keeping fungal infections at bay, and Bordeaux mixture is now widely used to help control diseases.

It sounds like you could use Bordeaux mixture for its original purpose.

Maybe you could transplant them to a better protected location.

I am sorry for you loss.

Here on the forum I read about folks doing the same thing.  It is a shame that they don't realize what they are doing.

I will start by saying that it sounds like you know these folks and there is probably a bit more to it than we can see here.

But I feel a bit itchy because that's normally me-- I'm out foraging and maybe I'm taking someone's expected haul. If it's in a public space and someone told me, hey, i've been working on that bush for years, I'd offer to share my haul right there, but if I didn't know how could I respect that? (it sounds like they were jerky, which is a different problem altogether).

If it's on public property, it's like giving a gift: you put it out there but you have no idea how people are going to use it (regift? sell? throw away? it's out of your hands and you have no control over how someone uses a gift).
We have a similar issue with my surinam cherries- they're planted on the outside of my fence, and by law they belong to everyone. Some people will go out and yell, but if they wanted it to be just theirs, they should have planted it inside the fence.

If I were you, and I had space, I'd plant some more on my own property, where I could enjoy them myself. I do love the idea of giving the people seedlings, but I wouldn't expect much from that. And I definitely wouldn't cut them down, as that would be like cutting off your nose to spite your face-- you're punishing everyone, including yourself, for the rude reply of someone who maybe didn't think before they opened their mouth.

I’m sorry this happened. It sounds like you did well taking care of these trees.

There are a few options. Another is to add back the rosebushes. A third, maybe what I lean toward, is to have so many saskatoons that they could not gather them all or would get tired. Maybe both.

Giving them suckers would be nice. I wonder, based on their behavior, if they’d be able to care for them. It is a long road, but if they do want to be better (and it could go either way) then some kindness can help.

Distance can be a great healer—could you start another patch further into your land so that you have some for yourself too?

I, too, am more likely to be in the forager situation but would offer up my harvest immediately if someone asked (and often do when they don’t ask).

Douglas Alpenstock wrote:I had an unpleasant encounter yesterday and it left a bitter taste.

Yeah, I bet that left you feeling betrayed. Like everyone else who isn't in the thick of your emotional response, I hope you find a more productive path forward that you can live with. But I get it!

I wanted to come back and say, hey, I'm about 99% certain Douglas isn't going to chop down his bushes. Maybe 99.5%.
But I sure can sympathize with wanting to, in the heat of the moment, faced with someone being jerky. If there is anything that will make you go absolutely bonkers and fantasize about torching the entire city.... it's people!! Everyone needs a good vent sometimes.

When we bought our property, I rather wished it actually bordered the road, rather than having an easement through my neighbor's property. I always thought it would be cool to have a little permaculture garden on the road for everyone to harvest as they walked by. It'd be a way to share permaculture with others and build community feeling. Sadly, I can't do that, so I have to help out in other ways. When my neighbors were building a house on their property to sell, I brought red huckleberry and wild strawberry plants from my property to plant on a big cedar stump at the start of the driveway. The new owners probably don't know that their huckleberries and strawberries came from me, but I'm happy to have shared of my excess and brought more food into the world.

Cheers for being a good human, Doug.  Walking along the road yesterday with my son we pass several old plum trees, loaded, just about deep purple, on a vacant lot.  They were perfect.  I took out my knife and cut two small branches 12”, then took the plums off.  We walked on to a coffee shop we were headed to.  My son asked, why we don’t get a whole bunch of plums.  I handed the few plums we had to the barista, she smiled.  I turn to my son and looked him in the eye,  I’m teaching you to fish for yourself, holding the two plum branches up.  “Ohhhh”, then he gave me his sheepish grin.  They made excellent cuttings, and are in the soil, hopefully rooting.  Life is just practice for more life, I breathe, I hope, then try, then wait.  Cheers,

Tereza Okava wrote:I wanted to come back and say, hey, I'm about 99% certain Douglas isn't going to chop down his bushes. Maybe 99.5%.
But I sure can sympathize with wanting to, in the heat of the moment, faced with someone being jerky.

Tereza, you called it correctly.

Thanks everyone for patiently listening. I appreciate your wise comments.

I've blown off some steam and I'm back in a strategic headspace.

This morning, I went down to the patch to pick my fair share. It gave me time to think and observe.

While I was there, another neighbour stopped on his morning jog and expressed admiration for my berry patch. Like many others, he's been grabbing a handful as he goes by. I mentioned my ongoing interventions and he suggested it would be amazing if we could create a wall of berries stretching all the way around the corner. Nice to have a positive interaction.

I realized I wasn't mad about the berries, I was mad about being treated like a doormat. I think I deserved better. Some people don't understand respect or boundaries and so it's necessary to be blunt and draw a line.

So as always happens in the Zen of the garden, a strategy emerged. When I next cross paths with the offending parties, I'm going to suggest that instead of getting hissy-pissy they might want help me expand this patch as a community resource. I sincerely doubt they will lift a finger, but I will have taken the high road. Cheers.

I would probably write it up and stick the note in their mailbox.  That way, you'd be able to compose your thoughts, take the high ground but express your frustrations in a tactful way instead of being drawn in by their ignorance in the moment.  Remember the principle that talks about every problem is a solution.  I think digging small patches and planting them along the road is a wonderful idea.  I have Regent serviceberries the length of my front yard and bordering the sidewalk.  To my knowledge, people leave them alone but boy, do the birds go after them!  My strategy has always been to plant more than I can use, and then sharing is effortless.  I have 40 blueberry bushes out back, and I have some friends who come and pick.  I have more than enough for me, and they too, get enough to be really grateful!  I don't know what your land situation is, but could some be transplanted onto a patch that is truly not the right of way, like maybe the other side of the ditch?

The other thing I want to say is that (easier said than done) you don't want to hang on to anger.  It gives the negative power.  Take it as a lesson. Decide next steps and let the past go.  You will be healthier for it.  I certainly understand it.  You've done all that work, and then some people just swoop in to reap the reward after doing nothing to help.  Consider the source and move on!  They sound like dreadful neighbors, but it is best to keep the peace (while not being a pushover).

Barbara Simoes wrote:you don't want to hang on to anger.  It gives the negative power.  Take it as a lesson. Decide next steps and let the past go.  You will be healthier for it.

My gosh, I wish I had learned this lesson about 20 years before I actually did. This is one of those sounds-cheesy-but-actually-vital things that can really decide the course of your life. I have loved ones who choose anger, and I see what it does. It's not something I want for myself.