'Theoretically this level of creeping Orwellian dynamics should ramp up our awareness, but what happens instead is that each alert becomes less and less effective because we're incredibly stupid.' - Jerry Holkins
Some places need to be wild
'Theoretically this level of creeping Orwellian dynamics should ramp up our awareness, but what happens instead is that each alert becomes less and less effective because we're incredibly stupid.' - Jerry Holkins
Eric Hanson wrote:Alex,
I can see your dilemma. At present you do have a lot of excavator tasks. A tractor with backhoe would work, but a dedicated excavator would be better and take less time to finish your numerous jobs.
Have you considered renting an excavator to get a good chunk of your tasks done? The reason I ask is that I think any task you do with an excavator would be doable with a tractor with backhoe. Excavators are expensive and once your tasks are done, what will you do with it? An excavator is sort of a 1 trick pony. It does that trick very well, but that is all it does.
A tractor on the other hand is a jack-of-all trades and also the master of several. The loader is infinitely useful. Much of what you want to clear out could probably be done with a loader and bucket. A box blade or grader blade will help you smooth out anything you dig up. You of course can mow and do numerous other tasks with a tractor you just can’t do with an excavator.
I think my point is obvious by now, but this is your property and your money so do what you think is appropriate.
Please don’t hesitate to ask further questions if you have them.
Eric
"Where will you drive your own picket stake? Where will you choose to make your stand? Give me a threshold, a specific point at which you will finally stop running, at which you will finally fight back." (Derrick Jensen)
"Where will you drive your own picket stake? Where will you choose to make your stand? Give me a threshold, a specific point at which you will finally stop running, at which you will finally fight back." (Derrick Jensen)
Some places need to be wild
Zone 5/6
Annual rainfall: 40 inches / 1016 mm
Kansas City area discussion going on here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1707573296152799/
Devin Lavign wrote:
However if the ground is not level, the backhoe with the leveling ability is so much better than an excavator. Unless you like angled trench walls that might collapse don't even try it with the excavator.
Eric Hanson wrote:Alex,
I think that is a very wise choice. That Kubota, if in good shape, could serve you well into the future and appears well equipped at present to help you with your most immediate needs.
A thought for you going forward is to think about a possible well made grader blade. I have ontogeny these and it is very solidly built, has both tilt and offset functions and may serve you well.
If you are still curious, let me know and I can give you more details.
Eric
Alex Arn wrote:
Devin Lavign wrote:
However if the ground is not level, the backhoe with the leveling ability is so much better than an excavator. Unless you like angled trench walls that might collapse don't even try it with the excavator.
Thanks, Devin, that is some insight I would not have guessed. I had assumed the tracks and increased maneuverability would have made the mini-excavator the better choice for uneven grounid.
'Theoretically this level of creeping Orwellian dynamics should ramp up our awareness, but what happens instead is that each alert becomes less and less effective because we're incredibly stupid.' - Jerry Holkins
Devin Lavign wrote:I am a heavy equipment operator and have experience with multiple types of equipment.
First thing to mention is skid steers are expensive for what they are capable of. Unless you have tight working space they really aren't worth it. That is where they shine. When you need the maneuverability of a small machine. Otherwise you are better off with any other machine that can do what they do but better.
Now that leaves tractor with backhoe/loader and excavator.
Yes an excavator is a good piece of equipment. I am however amazed at the over use of them for jobs that really should be done by something else.They shine at digging trenches on level ground. Really really shine at that. But after that, they start to even out with other equipment. The big reason they are so used in construction is well trenches are highly needed. But a good construction backhoe can dig trenches almost as fast and as well as an excavator. Plus with the front loader can fill that trench in a fraction of the time an excavator can. I have had races with other operators and the back hoe will win every time if it is to the finish of fill the trench back in, but the excavator will be a moment ahead in the actual trench digging.
However if the ground is not level, the backhoe with the leveling ability is so much better than an excavator. Unless you like angled trench walls that might collapse don't even try it with the excavator.
From all you described, I would choose a tractor with loader back hoe. For the price of what you would spend on an excavator you can find a pretty good tractor with backhoe and loader, since they tend to be little less costly. And yes a tractor backhoe is a jack of trades master of none. But the amount of work you have listed (and the stuff that will come up) that is exactly what you need. Something that can be flexible and do many different tasks. That loader will be a life saver the first time you need to move a pile of dirt from where it sits to 40 feet or more over to where you want it.
Definitely opt for a 4 wheel drive tractor, you will be happy you did. Look for a good PTO on the tractor, that will come in handy so many times later. I would suggest you also look for front forks for the tractor they are so useful that it is amazing they don't just come standard with any loader.
I wish you luck and hope you enjoy working the land into shape.
'Theoretically this level of creeping Orwellian dynamics should ramp up our awareness, but what happens instead is that each alert becomes less and less effective because we're incredibly stupid.' - Jerry Holkins
Alex Arn wrote:
Eric Hanson wrote:Alex,
I think that is a very wise choice. That Kubota, if in good shape, could serve you well into the future and appears well equipped at present to help you with your most immediate needs.
A thought for you going forward is to think about a possible well made grader blade. I have ontogeny these and it is very solidly built, has both tilt and offset functions and may serve you well.
If you are still curious, let me know and I can give you more details.
Eric
It's funny you mention a grader, I was reading the Army Core of Engineering manual on earth moving projects yesterday (my wife think my in-flight reading material is weird) and the section on graders was very interesting. I didn't realize you could dig ditches or build terraces with them. It's definitely something I need to keep in mind for the future.
Dillon Nichols wrote:If I am understanding correctly, Devin, you're referring to using the stabilizers and bucket on the backhoe to set it level, to get vertical walls as you dig on sloped ground, yes?
My 150 sized excavator can't do this, true. However, an excavator with a backfill blade could, and these are commonly available on mini through 60 sized in my area, occasionally you see them on a 120.
Dillon Nichols wrote: You don't consider a full sized excavator better for digging larger ponds?
Doing something with the piles after digging is certainly a problem. A backhoe definitely has an advantage there. That said, moving really big piles one bucket at a time still sucks, and when the pile is going a ways it sucks a lot... My current theory is hire a dumptruck for longer moves, and use a dozer for shorter ones... hoping it will be more cost effective as well as quicker, time will tell..
"Where will you drive your own picket stake? Where will you choose to make your stand? Give me a threshold, a specific point at which you will finally stop running, at which you will finally fight back." (Derrick Jensen)
Some places need to be wild
Dan Grubbs wrote:Just to quickly chime in with an observation of the OP statement. Now, I'm not there to see things first hand and original posts usually don't have all the information people need to give advice, but here I go anyway.
Though many people might be really good at wanting to know what they want to do with a property, I'm not convinced that "a few days walking our new property" is enough observation to inform a detailed plan. Observation is the one thing that too many people neglect because of their desire to "get going" on their land -- especially if that includes earthworks. This usually has repercussions down the road. Having said that, I offer this:
Dan Grubbs wrote:
The Kubota L3800 is a good machine and approved Kubota dealers with repair shops can be found pretty easily in most states. When operating a tractor-mounted back hoe, move much more slowly than you think you need to. I've seen people swing and stop the arm and bang the scoop way too much and that not only is hard on the articulation points, but is hard on the hydraulics. Most of the smaller tractors with mounted back hoes are not designed to the industrial tolerances as construction equipment. Put it simply, baby the machine and it will serve you well. If it's hydrostatic transmission, even better. What I loose in horsepower with an HST I gain partly back by using ag tires. I'm a fan of ag tires and not industrial tires because of the better traction and less loss of horsepower. If the 'bota you see for sale has R4 tires, you may want to save up for some new ag tires later. I also will recommend beet juice in the rear tires as ballast. As much as I love these smaller tractors, they are often a bit too light and the addition of beet juice in the rear tires is a must. Don't use other fluids, use beet juice. Your dealer should know what you're talking about. It is the only mistake I made when I purchased my small tractor. I wish I would have had them add the beet juice for ballast. Finally, the front-end loader is one of the most indispensable pieces of equipment on our homestead. My wife shared a useful insight with me one day which led me to finally buy a tractor. She said, "you know, one trip to the hospital for a broken bone or an injured back will be far more expensive that the cost of a new tractor." My tractor and FEL have saved me many hard hours of labor that I can do literally in minutes. You'll never regret having the FEL on your tractor.
Best of luck.
Eric Hanson wrote:Just to set the record straight, when I mentioned a grader blade, I was referring to the 3- point attachment that fits to the rear of the tractor.
I have owned a grader blade for about a dozen years and I consider it to be a highly flexible important available at reasonable prices. My two biggest uses for the grader blade is moving snow and maintaining a driveway. When I first got the grader blade, the sales representative insisted that the box blade was the way to go (it was more expensive). However, the angle function really aids in snow removal and generally aids in moving long runs of earth movement. I just a couple of months ago got a new blade for my new tractor and it has an offset function in addition to the angle and tilt functions that are normally present. I highly recommend the offset function. I would not be surprised if you could dig/clear your ditches & waterways by using the grader blade and taking out a slice of dirt at a time (don’t try to sink the blade in all at once, you will stall your tractor).
The blade I got was purchased new and is very high quality and available for a reasonable price. If you are still interested, let me know and I will get you more details.
Eric
Devin Lavign wrote:
Alex Arn wrote:
Eric Hanson wrote:Alex,
I think that is a very wise choice. That Kubota, if in good shape, could serve you well into the future and appears well equipped at present to help you with your most immediate needs.
A thought for you going forward is to think about a possible well made grader blade. I have ontogeny these and it is very solidly built, has both tilt and offset functions and may serve you well.
If you are still curious, let me know and I can give you more details.
Eric
It's funny you mention a grader, I was reading the Army Core of Engineering manual on earth moving projects yesterday (my wife think my in-flight reading material is weird) and the section on graders was very interesting. I didn't realize you could dig ditches or build terraces with them. It's definitely something I need to keep in mind for the future.
Alex I think Eric was referring to a rear attached grader blade for the tractor. Not a Motor Grader machine.
I too was amazed at the possibilities Motor graders are capable of. They are a very complex machine though and take a lot of time to get decent at, and even more time to really start to fully understand what you can do. I do mean more time like a decade of using them. They are the highest learning curve piece of heavy equipment out there. You can get decent in a few weeks but over time you realize you only scratched the surface and there is a lot more going on, and as well your skills increase as you get better and better with the controls. To see a real expert running on of those is amazing.
Dillon Nichols wrote:If I am understanding correctly, Devin, you're referring to using the stabilizers and bucket on the backhoe to set it level, to get vertical walls as you dig on sloped ground, yes?
My 150 sized excavator can't do this, true. However, an excavator with a backfill blade could, and these are commonly available on mini through 60 sized in my area, occasionally you see them on a 120.
Not sure what you are suggesting could be done with a backfill blade to level an excavator using it with. It is not a set of stabilizers. The only way you can level an excavator is to have it sit on level ground, and if it is not level it can dig at angles undercutting the trench it is digging.
Dillon Nichols wrote: You don't consider a full sized excavator better for digging larger ponds?
Doing something with the piles after digging is certainly a problem. A backhoe definitely has an advantage there. That said, moving really big piles one bucket at a time still sucks, and when the pile is going a ways it sucks a lot... My current theory is hire a dumptruck for longer moves, and use a dozer for shorter ones... hoping it will be more cost effective as well as quicker, time will tell..
For a large pond, I would say loader/backhoe and/or dozer are the batter options. Though for a large enough pond a large excavator rental would not be out of my thoughts. Yes dump trucks are the best option for longer moves of earth. How far are you planning to move your earth? While not the most fun, a loader bucket should be able to move dirt removed from a pond a fair distance. Most folks generally wont need to move their dirt that far from their pond site, unless they are moving it off their property. Only major issue with moving dirt with the loader bucket is terrain, but if the terrain is poor for the tractor to move with the loader, a dump truck wont be happy either.
Devin Lavign wrote:
Dillon Nichols wrote:If I am understanding correctly, Devin, you're referring to using the stabilizers and bucket on the backhoe to set it level, to get vertical walls as you dig on sloped ground, yes?
My 150 sized excavator can't do this, true. However, an excavator with a backfill blade could, and these are commonly available on mini through 60 sized in my area, occasionally you see them on a 120.
Not sure what you are suggesting could be done with a backfill blade to level an excavator using it with. It is not a set of stabilizers. The only way you can level an excavator is to have it sit on level ground, and if it is not level it can dig at angles undercutting the trench it is digging.
'Theoretically this level of creeping Orwellian dynamics should ramp up our awareness, but what happens instead is that each alert becomes less and less effective because we're incredibly stupid.' - Jerry Holkins
"Where will you drive your own picket stake? Where will you choose to make your stand? Give me a threshold, a specific point at which you will finally stop running, at which you will finally fight back." (Derrick Jensen)
Devin Lavign wrote:Dillon, while you might be able to use that blade for that, it is not the intended purpose, nor is it good for it. That blade is meant for light scraping and minimal pushing of dirt. Not for the machine to rest it's weight on it while working.
It also does not have the range of adjustment that a loader bucket and two stabilizers has.
But if your friend wants to use it that way, that is up to him. I would not.
'Theoretically this level of creeping Orwellian dynamics should ramp up our awareness, but what happens instead is that each alert becomes less and less effective because we're incredibly stupid.' - Jerry Holkins
Dillon Nichols wrote:
Devin Lavign wrote:
Dillon Nichols wrote:If I am understanding correctly, Devin, you're referring to using the stabilizers and bucket on the backhoe to set it level, to get vertical walls as you dig on sloped ground, yes?
My 150 sized excavator can't do this, true. However, an excavator with a backfill blade could, and these are commonly available on mini through 60 sized in my area, occasionally you see them on a 120.
Not sure what you are suggesting could be done with a backfill blade to level an excavator using it with. It is not a set of stabilizers. The only way you can level an excavator is to have it sit on level ground, and if it is not level it can dig at angles undercutting the trench it is digging.
Hm... I have a friend with an EX60-3 with blade; he uses it exactly like stabilizers. Rotates the tracks so the blade is downhill, then lowers it til the unit sits level.
I would guess that perhaps it can't level on as steep as slope as a backhoe, but I'm not sure.
He tried to convince me this feature was worth buying a 60 for, but with the cost being equal I opted for the larger but bladeless unit.
Dan Grubbs wrote:Just to quickly chime in with an observation of the OP statement. Now, I'm not there to see things first hand and original posts usually don't have all the information people need to give advice, but here I go anyway.
Though many people might be really good at wanting to know what they want to do with a property, I'm not convinced that "a few days walking our new property" is enough observation to inform a detailed plan. Observation is the one thing that too many people neglect because of their desire to "get going" on their land -- especially if that includes earthworks. This usually has repercussions down the road. Having said that, I offer this:
The Kubota L3800 is a good machine and approved Kubota dealers with repair shops can be found pretty easily in most states. When operating a tractor-mounted back hoe, move much more slowly than you think you need to. I've seen people swing and stop the arm and bang the scoop way too much and that not only is hard on the articulation points, but is hard on the hydraulics. Most of the smaller tractors with mounted back hoes are not designed to the industrial tolerances as construction equipment. Put it simply, baby the machine and it will serve you well. If it's hydrostatic transmission, even better. What I loose in horsepower with an HST I gain partly back by using ag tires. I'm a fan of ag tires and not industrial tires because of the better traction and less loss of horsepower. If the 'bota you see for sale has R4 tires, you may want to save up for some new ag tires later. I also will recommend beet juice in the rear tires as ballast. As much as I love these smaller tractors, they are often a bit too light and the addition of beet juice in the rear tires is a must. Don't use other fluids, use beet juice. Your dealer should know what you're talking about. It is the only mistake I made when I purchased my small tractor. I wish I would have had them add the beet juice for ballast. Finally, the front-end loader is one of the most indispensable pieces of equipment on our homestead. My wife shared a useful insight with me one day which led me to finally buy a tractor. She said, "you know, one trip to the hospital for a broken bone or an injured back will be far more expensive that the cost of a new tractor." My tractor and FEL have saved me many hard hours of labor that I can do literally in minutes. You'll never regret having the FEL on your tractor.
Best of luck.
Alex Arn wrote:
Dan Grubbs wrote:Just to quickly chime in with an observation of the OP statement. Now, I'm not there to see things first hand and original posts usually don't have all the information people need to give advice, but here I go anyway.
Though many people might be really good at wanting to know what they want to do with a property, I'm not convinced that "a few days walking our new property" is enough observation to inform a detailed plan. Observation is the one thing that too many people neglect because of their desire to "get going" on their land -- especially if that includes earthworks. This usually has repercussions down the road. Having said that, I offer this:
The Kubota L3800 is a good machine and approved Kubota dealers with repair shops can be found pretty easily in most states. When operating a tractor-mounted back hoe, move much more slowly than you think you need to. I've seen people swing and stop the arm and bang the scoop way too much and that not only is hard on the articulation points, but is hard on the hydraulics. Most of the smaller tractors with mounted back hoes are not designed to the industrial tolerances as construction equipment. Put it simply, baby the machine and it will serve you well. If it's hydrostatic transmission, even better. What I loose in horsepower with an HST I gain partly back by using ag tires. I'm a fan of ag tires and not industrial tires because of the better traction and less loss of horsepower. If the 'bota you see for sale has R4 tires, you may want to save up for some new ag tires later. I also will recommend beet juice in the rear tires as ballast. As much as I love these smaller tractors, they are often a bit too light and the addition of beet juice in the rear tires is a must. Don't use other fluids, use beet juice. Your dealer should know what you're talking about. It is the only mistake I made when I purchased my small tractor. I wish I would have had them add the beet juice for ballast. Finally, the front-end loader is one of the most indispensable pieces of equipment on our homestead. My wife shared a useful insight with me one day which led me to finally buy a tractor. She said, "you know, one trip to the hospital for a broken bone or an injured back will be far more expensive that the cost of a new tractor." My tractor and FEL have saved me many hard hours of labor that I can do literally in minutes. You'll never regret having the FEL on your tractor.
Best of luck.
Somewhat related, is a Kubota L3800 big enough for "deep plowing"? Part of the field is infested with Greesewood and from what I have read the choices are herbicide or deep plowing multiple times at offset angles (do destroy the roots).
'Theoretically this level of creeping Orwellian dynamics should ramp up our awareness, but what happens instead is that each alert becomes less and less effective because we're incredibly stupid.' - Jerry Holkins
Dillon Nichols wrote:
Alex Arn wrote:
Dan Grubbs wrote:Just to quickly chime in with an observation of the OP statement. Now, I'm not there to see things first hand and original posts usually don't have all the information people need to give advice, but here I go anyway.
Though many people might be really good at wanting to know what they want to do with a property, I'm not convinced that "a few days walking our new property" is enough observation to inform a detailed plan. Observation is the one thing that too many people neglect because of their desire to "get going" on their land -- especially if that includes earthworks. This usually has repercussions down the road. Having said that, I offer this:
The Kubota L3800 is a good machine and approved Kubota dealers with repair shops can be found pretty easily in most states. When operating a tractor-mounted back hoe, move much more slowly than you think you need to. I've seen people swing and stop the arm and bang the scoop way too much and that not only is hard on the articulation points, but is hard on the hydraulics. Most of the smaller tractors with mounted back hoes are not designed to the industrial tolerances as construction equipment. Put it simply, baby the machine and it will serve you well. If it's hydrostatic transmission, even better. What I loose in horsepower with an HST I gain partly back by using ag tires. I'm a fan of ag tires and not industrial tires because of the better traction and less loss of horsepower. If the 'bota you see for sale has R4 tires, you may want to save up for some new ag tires later. I also will recommend beet juice in the rear tires as ballast. As much as I love these smaller tractors, they are often a bit too light and the addition of beet juice in the rear tires is a must. Don't use other fluids, use beet juice. Your dealer should know what you're talking about. It is the only mistake I made when I purchased my small tractor. I wish I would have had them add the beet juice for ballast. Finally, the front-end loader is one of the most indispensable pieces of equipment on our homestead. My wife shared a useful insight with me one day which led me to finally buy a tractor. She said, "you know, one trip to the hospital for a broken bone or an injured back will be far more expensive that the cost of a new tractor." My tractor and FEL have saved me many hard hours of labor that I can do literally in minutes. You'll never regret having the FEL on your tractor.
Best of luck.
Somewhat related, is a Kubota L3800 big enough for "deep plowing"? Part of the field is infested with Greesewood and from what I have read the choices are herbicide or deep plowing multiple times at offset angles (do destroy the roots).
Maybe, sort of? How deep? My TN55 seems just big enough for most things. I'd hate to lose weight and traction more than HP.
I have a 2-tine subsoiler, ~24" tines; it can leave me spinning 3 wheels if I hook a root or big rock.
Alex Arn wrote:
Dillon Nichols wrote:
Alex Arn wrote:
Dan Grubbs wrote:Just to quickly chime in with an observation of the OP statement. Now, I'm not there to see things first hand and original posts usually don't have all the information people need to give advice, but here I go anyway.
Though many people might be really good at wanting to know what they want to do with a property, I'm not convinced that "a few days walking our new property" is enough observation to inform a detailed plan. Observation is the one thing that too many people neglect because of their desire to "get going" on their land -- especially if that includes earthworks. This usually has repercussions down the road. Having said that, I offer this:
The Kubota L3800 is a good machine and approved Kubota dealers with repair shops can be found pretty easily in most states. When operating a tractor-mounted back hoe, move much more slowly than you think you need to. I've seen people swing and stop the arm and bang the scoop way too much and that not only is hard on the articulation points, but is hard on the hydraulics. Most of the smaller tractors with mounted back hoes are not designed to the industrial tolerances as construction equipment. Put it simply, baby the machine and it will serve you well. If it's hydrostatic transmission, even better. What I loose in horsepower with an HST I gain partly back by using ag tires. I'm a fan of ag tires and not industrial tires because of the better traction and less loss of horsepower. If the 'bota you see for sale has R4 tires, you may want to save up for some new ag tires later. I also will recommend beet juice in the rear tires as ballast. As much as I love these smaller tractors, they are often a bit too light and the addition of beet juice in the rear tires is a must. Don't use other fluids, use beet juice. Your dealer should know what you're talking about. It is the only mistake I made when I purchased my small tractor. I wish I would have had them add the beet juice for ballast. Finally, the front-end loader is one of the most indispensable pieces of equipment on our homestead. My wife shared a useful insight with me one day which led me to finally buy a tractor. She said, "you know, one trip to the hospital for a broken bone or an injured back will be far more expensive that the cost of a new tractor." My tractor and FEL have saved me many hard hours of labor that I can do literally in minutes. You'll never regret having the FEL on your tractor.
Best of luck.
Somewhat related, is a Kubota L3800 big enough for "deep plowing"? Part of the field is infested with Greesewood and from what I have read the choices are herbicide or deep plowing multiple times at offset angles (do destroy the roots).
Maybe, sort of? How deep? My TN55 seems just big enough for most things. I'd hate to lose weight and traction more than HP.
I have a 2-tine subsoiler, ~24" tines; it can leave me spinning 3 wheels if I hook a root or big rock.
The USDA plant guide says 10 inches so substantially less but the soil is pretty rocky.
"Deep plowing to a depth of 10 inches or deeper and plowing in two directions is often the most effective treatment where soil conditions are favorable. After the first plowing, wait until the plants start growing again and then make the second pass at a 45 degree angle to the previous pass. Regrowth normally occurs in the next growing season but can happen in the year of the first plowing."
https://plants.usda.gov/plantguide/pdf/pg_save4.pdf
'Theoretically this level of creeping Orwellian dynamics should ramp up our awareness, but what happens instead is that each alert becomes less and less effective because we're incredibly stupid.' - Jerry Holkins
Tomorrow doesn’t exist and never will. There is only the eternal now. Do it now.
Cindy Skillman wrote:Skid steer is best for excavation, but those projects tend to be finite and skidsteers are really expensive, even used. You could buy one with the intent of selling it, but I would definitely buy used, in good shape. Or you could rent when you’re in “doing projects mode.” Renting is likely going to be cheaper in the long run, but of course it’s more convenient to have the equipment always on your property. Any major backhoe projects? I’d definitely rent for those. You can get a backhoe for a tractor, but it will be less efficient to use for larger, deeper excavations.
For long-term, all-round use, it’s hard to beat a tractor. You’ll likely want to do baling at some point so make sure to get a tractor large enough to run a baler. I personally think it’s great to have a backhoe for the tractor for smaller projects. Make sure you get one that will take skid steer implements on the loader arms. (it goes without saying that you need a loader). A cab is expensive and we don’t have one, but if you plan to regularly be on the tractor in inclement weather it will be worth the money. We did not get set up for a grapple and will need to rectify that. (Oops.) All around, the tractor is the most versatile machine you can buy. You can use it for some excavation needs, but anything very intense, you’ll want a skid steer or track steer. Eventually though, you do work yourself out of the need for it. You’ll always want that tractor. You can buy used or new, but we weren’t able to find what we wanted used. We had to wait two months just to get the new one we wanted. If you live in a more populated area, you’ll likely have more options.
Best of luck, and have fun!
Alex Arn wrote:A few Pictures.
Perric Falcon wrote:
Alex Arn wrote:A few Pictures.
+1 to excavator, perhaps a mini excavator and a used older model tractor?
Some places need to be wild
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