The Most Food for the Time & Space

Skandi Rogers wrote:It depends what you want, are you growing expensive luxuries and buying bulk basics? If so then herbs fresh beans and weird salad leaves might be the "best" for you. There's a wonderful thread on here https://permies.com/t/151516/Plant-Grow-Percentage-Total-Calories  that concentrates on calories per unit area if that is the goal.
I get about 1kg of peas per m2 I get around 4kg of lettuce from 1m2 in the same time frame, so in my opinion the peas give more food value per meter than lettuce does. I can only eat so much lettuce before it either bolts or the slugs get it but peas freeze.

echo minarosa wrote:We have very limited space here. So we try to concentrate food growing on things that would take a more significant bite out of our food budget. While we experiment with a few potatoes and other similar crops, we concentrate on the things that cost more, are harder to find, or even tastes that can't be replicated commercially (tomatoes!).

We still struggle with a few. Also, "the most food" is fairly general. The most in terms of weight? Nutrient density? Calories? Scarcity in the market? Can the choices follow through the winter like kale and root crops? I think all of those are valid considerations as well as planning categories. We try to be as diverse as possible while leaning towards specialty foods or foods that cost considerably more and on FLAVOR. As a long-time forager, I always say there is a HUGE difference between edibility and palatability. My heavy lean is towards the latter though if something negative happens the former may become important as well.

If I had to guess, I think once structures and hard surfaces are removed, we're on about 1/10th an acre of usable land. If I strip out the north side with perpetual shade (where most of the composting happens) and other low light...considerably less. Most of the food production happens in the backyard. That probably reduces optimum space to about .06 acres. We can't do everything but have a lot going on. We also look at ornamentals that might be pressed into food if something happens. People would rob tomatoes out front, but they leave hostas alone. I've never eaten hostas but could in a pinch. We mix a lot of herbs into pollinator areas we could also use if things got tight.

Some of us also have to fly under the radar to avoid the acceptability police. My urban area might have a cow with some practices. They're looking at compost policy. They have a weed ordinance that they're trying to fix somewhat since pollinator gardens get cited. They're trying to respond to urban gardeners for solving food desert issues but have stated they want us to register with the city. What the hell for I wonder? Anyone can truck in poison-laden plastic produce from anywhere in the world but local gardeners need to be monitored?

echo minarosa wrote:
Some of us also have to fly under the radar to avoid the acceptability police. My urban area might have a cow with some practices. They're looking at compost policy. They have a weed ordinance that they're trying to fix somewhat since pollinator gardens get cited. They're trying to respond to urban gardeners for solving food desert issues but have stated they want us to register with the city. What the hell for I wonder? Anyone can truck in poison-laden plastic produce from anywhere in the world but local gardeners need to be monitored?

Anne Miller wrote:If I were going to plant a garden based on "The Most Food for the Time & Space", I would plant these three plants:



Potatoes because it is an effective calorie-producing vegetable.  The plant produces a lot of pounds of food for a relatively small space.



I don’t know about potato leaves.... but sweet potato leaves are edible and tastes like a cross between spinach and Swiss chard. I think the ability to utilize most if not all of the plant is a huge bonus

Ps I’m sorry I don’t know quite how to quote them write a message below outside of the quote box!

Heather Scott wrote:


I don’t know about potato leaves.... but sweet potato leaves are edible and tastes like a cross between spinach and Swiss chard. I think the ability to utilize most if not all of the plant is a huge bonus

Kevin Wilson wrote:
whereas beans often get rained on while they are drying in Sept and go moldy.  

Anne Miller wrote:

Potatoes because it is an effective calorie-producing vegetable.  The plant produces a lot of pounds of food for a relatively small space.

Beans because they are high in protein.  They can be dried to store for the winter.  they can be grown vertically to save space.

 

Michelle Heath wrote:  I grow rhubarb, asparagus and alpine strawberries from seed, which can take a bit longer to harvest but for far less than the cost of buying roots/crowns/established plants.  Horseradish and comfrey are increased by root cuttings and although we don't use comfrey internally, it's value in the garden is tremendous.  Herbs are increased through division and cuttings.  Blooms from dandelion and wild violets made some wonderful jelly this spring.  

Kevin Wilson wrote:Our deer-resistant space out back is about 40’ x 40’, so we are very limited on space too. We do grow potatoes, onion family and squash out front but it’s always a challenge to get the squash past the small plant stage when the deer will eat them.

We grow soup peas for dry protein instead of beans, because they dry down reliably for us by early August, whereas beans often get rained on while they are drying in Sept and go moldy. Most people plant their peas quite far apart, so of course they don’t get much food per sq ft from them. Planted close together in bands or wide rows (1.5-2” apart in all directions) you get a lot more peas, and you don’t have to build as much length of trellis either.

Ralph Sluder wrote:
Then I would say malibar spinach and pole beans if trellised take little space and give huge amounts of food.  
   I have plenty of garden space but these I have mentioned get only a small garden plot to provide meals for the entire year for our family and then some.

Heather Scott wrote:Relatively new to gardening..... father always gardened but I never had much mind to learning how and what he did. Until my Husband and I purchased 10.5 acres of mountain woods in TN. All I knew was that I had this burning desire to provide food for us.... two at the time and now three as were pregnant and very excited to sow into our little one our new way of living. We refuse to mass clear land.. aka bulldoze it all down, so we cut a clearing with chainsaws and built two raised beds... there is such rich soil here but due to the mass webbing of root systems it’s not easy to break through the top layers of dirt. I began to study.... built our raised bed out of rotting logs and was blessed with full dirt that came from a clean site (half of the soil in this area is a dense yellowish clay (which is good for building our cob home but not for plant growth) I knew I needed to grow a variety of foods to sustain us if the world shut down and I couldn’t go to the local market because I am not vaccinated, I learned about companion planting. I have one 10x30 raised bed and one 10x 20 raised bed and grow shelling peas, bush beans, dry beans, cucumbers, tomatoes, beets, radishes, onions, lettuce, mellons, broccoli, cauliflower sweet potatoes (white and Orange) carrots, eggplant, zucchini, winter squash. By learning companion planting and integrating some vertical gardening I’ve been able to get it all in...growing organic with as much utilization of space. I do have a 9x10x8 greenhouse where I have tables that double as planters in late summer for kale, rutabaga, kohlrabi, spinach and in spring used for starting seeds. I keep a garden journal where I document what works and doesn’t work, what varieties work and what don’t. All my seeds are heirloom so companion planting became key for not only space saving but for big control as well. I’d rather loose a few radishes growing amongst the cucumbers then let a beetle just have its way with my cucumbers! Oh and we do have both beds fenced in to stop the deer and rabbits, the fence helps also by allowing things to climb on them allowing even more space to plant. Between our gardens, ability to forage,  chicken, and a few sheep I think were quite well off to sustain if either the grid goes down or if “green rebels” like us aren’t allowed in the mainstream world anymore because we aren’t vaccinated.

Anne Miller wrote:If I were going to plant a garden based on "The Most Food for the Time & Space", I would plant these three plants:

Zucchini because it is abundant.  The plant can be placed on a trellis to grow vertically to save space.

Potatoes because it is an effective calorie-producing vegetable.  The plant produces a lot of pounds of food for a relatively small space.

Beans because they are high in protein.  They can be dried to store for the winter.  they can be grown vertically to save space.

 

Heather Scott wrote:

Ps I’m sorry I don’t know quite how to quote them write a message below outside of the quote box!

Ellendra Nauriel wrote:Making a list of what gives you the most food for the time and space is tricky. I could list the species I think would do best, but in order to really get the best returns it would require matching the exact varieties to the location and growing methods.

That said, what works best for me are potatoes, winter or dual-purpose squash, tomatoes, and dry beans.

For potatoes, the best returns I got last year were from the varieties "Elfe" and "Red Pontiac". There were also high yields from a fingerling variety that I think was "Russian Banana", but they were so bitter they burned my mouth, and I had to throw them out. It's worth noting that Red Pontiac started sprouting in storage a full 6 weeks before Elfe did.

For many years, my go-to winter squashes were "Zucchetta Rampicante" (a dual-purpose variety), "Red Kuri", and "Tennessee Sweet Potato". I'm currently working to preserve some other varieties that would cross with those, so they're being set aside for a while. "Bigger Better Butternut" so far looks like it does as well or slightly better than the Zucchetta Rampicante. I'm still reserving judgement on "Sweet Meat Oregon Homestead" and "Calabasas de las Aguas". I also grew a different species of squash that is unlike anything I've ever grown before, the "Great Lakes Shark Fin". That one is sweet as a melon, forms strings like a spaghetti squash, and has a shell that's as thin and hard as a coconut, but the meat fills the entire shell like a watermelon. According to what I've read about it, Shark Fin Squash can keep for years in the shell. So far I still have a little over half of them in the basement, and they are as solid as the day they were picked. In terms of storage crops, Shark Fin is a definite winner!

I always grow a different mix of tomato varieties every year, but the ones that always make it to the list are "Punta Banda", "Climbing Triple-Crop", and one that originated in a compost heap that I'm tentatively calling "Mini-Paste". The Mini-Paste and Punta Banda both detach completely from the stem, with no core remaining. That makes it easy to just dump a bunch in the sauce squeezer. Mini-Paste is meatier than Punta Banda, but they both have good flavors and make excellent sauces and soups. Climbing Triple Crop has a core, but the fruits are huge, making it a good one for sandwiches, or it can be chopped up and added to the sauce. (I should mention, I'm one of those rare people who can't stand the taste of raw tomatoes. I have family members who like them raw, but I prefer to eat them cooked. Thus, most of my focus is on tomatoes that make good sauces.)

For dry beans, there's no question. Beefy Resilient Beans live up to every part of their name! They produce heavily, even in years when other beans in my garden got wiped out by a fungus. And the taste is outstanding! I'm actually working on ways to make it machine-harvestable so I can grow it on a much larger scale. As an added bonus, it doesn't cause gas the way most legumes do!

I do grow other varieties of beans, but I have yet to find one I enjoy eating as much as the Beefy Resilient. If pole beans were my only option though, I would grow "Good Mother Stallard". Several years ago I did some tests, and that one produced 4x the amount of seed per row-foot as the second best producer. At some point I'll try crossing it with Beefy to try and get the best of both worlds, but if my survival depended on a pole bean, that would be it.
(Second-best producer in the test was "Scarlet Runner". Keep in mind that there were only 12 varieties in that test, so results should be taken with a grain of salt.)


If you're looking to save money, rather than just producing calories, I would start in the spice cabinet. Herbs, especially perennial or self-sowing herbs, can produce an entire year's worth in a very small space. Garlic is always on my list, although I haven't settled on any specific varieties. I have a patch of Greek Oregano that pretty much takes care of itself. If you use saffron at all I encourage you to get a few bulbs. Look at what you use most, then check if you can grow it.

Jamie Chevalier wrote:

For fresh veggies in summer and fall, chard wins hands down. It can be cut again and again, regrows quickly, is more heat-resistant than other leafy greens, and its deep taproot makes it both drought-tolerant and mineral-rich. The "Perpetual Spinach" type is milder and more tender than regular chard, in addition to being perennial in zones 6 or 7 to 10.  perpetual spinach Besides the usual soups, side dishes, etc., I put it into pasta a lot, and enjoy it as a salad--cooked and served cool with olive oil and garlic.

https://www.quailseeds.com/store/p472/Chicory_%22Trieste_Sweet%22_.html#/

Lisa Brunette wrote:

That's great - I have one crop of comfrey that I grew from seed at the base of a pear tree. The other 4 spots of seeds didn't germinate, but this crop is going strong. You've inspired me to see if I can propagate them from cuttings. Thanks!

Ellendra Nauriel wrote:
For many years, my go-to winter squashes were "Zucchetta Rampicante" (a dual-purpose variety), "Red Kuri", and "Tennessee Sweet Potato". I'm currently working to preserve some other varieties that would cross with those, so they're being set aside for a while. "Bigger Better Butternut" so far looks like it does as well or slightly better than the Zucchetta Rampicante. I'm still reserving judgement on "Sweet Meat Oregon Homestead" and "Calabasas de las Aguas". I also grew a different species of squash that is unlike anything I've ever grown before, the "Great Lakes Shark Fin". That one is sweet as a melon, forms strings like a spaghetti squash, and has a shell that's as thin and hard as a coconut, but the meat fills the entire shell like a watermelon. According to what I've read about it, Shark Fin Squash can keep for years in the shell. So far I still have a little over half of them in the basement, and they are as solid as the day they were picked. In terms of storage crops, Shark Fin is a definite winner!

Curious to know how others of you have edited your gardening plans for maximum yield as well as practice and personal taste.

Trace Oswald wrote:

Lisa Brunette wrote:

That's great - I have one crop of comfrey that I grew from seed at the base of a pear tree. The other 4 spots of seeds didn't germinate, but this crop is going strong. You've inspired me to see if I can propagate them from cuttings. Thanks!

It couldn't be easier.  Dig up some root, break off a piece an inch or two long and stick it in the ground.  Then wait.  I have literally hundreds now that I started that way.

Michelle Heath wrote:

Horseradish is just as easy. I moved a clump to make room for a new garden bed and broke off a few roots.  I put them in a plastic bag and meant to stick them in the crisper drawer of my refrigerator.  Yesterday I noticed the bag still setting where I put it when I brought it in the house and expected the worst.  Instead I found new shoots emerging.  

Lisa Brunette wrote:

Ralph Sluder wrote:
Then I would say malibar spinach and pole beans if trellised take little space and give huge amounts of food.  
   I have plenty of garden space but these I have mentioned get only a small garden plot to provide meals for the entire year for our family and then some.

Ralph, would malabar spinach work in a hanging basket? Asking for a friend.

Lisa Brunette wrote:


It would really help readers here to know where you're growing - I always look to see which region or gardening zone posters are in so I can translate what you're saying for my own zone. Thanks!

I'm trying red kuri this year, growing it from seed I saved from a farmer's market squash.

gene gapsis wrote:

My question for everyone is how to successfully grow what we in Canada call yams, or the orange-fleshed sweet potatoes to those of you in the States.  I want to get away from potatoes (don't eat that many) but I LOVE sweet potatoes (yams.). I'm about 500' above sea level, so my climate is colder in winter, and much drier in summer.  I have so far not been successful, even in producing slips, having tried different ways I've read about here on Permies.  If anyone can help educate me on that, I would really appreciate it.  I do NOT have a greenhouse.  I love to tend my garden, but in summer, I want to be on the water in my kayak as much as possible. My life is greatly enhanced by growing my own food, not to mention the food security issues which Covid-19 has highlighted, and while I purchase organic veggies which come mostly from California, there are pretty poor substitutes for what I can grow.  

Jamie Chevalier wrote:My understanding is that yams require a lot of heat, both day and night. Even here in northern California, I don't know anyone who can grow them outdoors without nighttime protection, except in the Central Valley, where moister air makes the nights warmer. (I have a 40 to 50-degree swing between summer days and summer nights, from 90-100 to 40-50.) I do know people who have grown them successfully in a greenhouse here.

I suspect that in your maritime climate, you might be able to do it if you could find a way of raising the temperature. say in a greenhouse or cold frame. Maybe the solution would be a hot bed, where you dig a pit and fill it with fresh manure, or other hot-composting materials. Put soil on top of that to grow in and a frame or tent over the top to hold the heat. I used to build these for winter greens in Southeast Alaska, with an old window and wood frame over a pit filled with seaweed and chicken bedding. I grew fresh spinach and Asian greens when it was 10 degrees outside.