Responsible generosity

Stacie Kim in “Permies are the Jones” observed that Permies tend to be frugal as well as more charitable than most.   I agree with her observation.  But the observation opens a door I am interested in looking into. Before we give of our money, time, etc., what measures do we take .....can we take....to assure we are being responsible with our generosity?

Assuming that none of us are burdened with an infinity amount of time and money, then  any time or money we are giving one person is limiting what we give others.  For example, one of the measures I take before giving to a Not For Profit is to look up the salary of the CEO on www.guidestar.org.  While this is not fool proof, it does give me a starting point.

I used to run a nonprofit and this sort of thing used to keep me up at night when I wanted to donate paltry sums to other causes.

In recent years I've tried to be more zen about it: if I mean it as a gift, I have to be okay with it going wherever it will go.
That means, in practice, that I've stopped giving cash to places and started giving in-kind donations (mostly food, which is most needed right now) to organizations that are in line with my beliefs in general terms which immediately turn around and give it to others. I do occasionally give someone money (small amounts) and don't worry about how they will use it.
In terms of giving my time- I've practically stopped. I have a few small causes (I'm on call for a helpline, and I do official translations for charity cases: both are very rare) but I choose my volunteer opportunities very, very carefully. I can deal with the occasional waste of money, but wasted time is a darn shame.

There was a good TED talk about non-profits being held to a double standard with regards to how they manage their money.

Ah, here it is: https://www.ted.com/talks/dan_pallotta_the_way_we_think_about_charity_is_dead_wrong

Recently I've been a bit tight in the pocketbook. I must say I'm worried about my own family's future as much as the world's future. I'd like to get where I'm comfortable with giving money again. There are causes doing work I believe in but don't have time or ability to work on myself. Those are the ones I like to donate to. The closest I feel to doing something about those problems without actually doing anything...

When I see all the ads on TV for this cause or that cause I think of how much of my money would be going to the administrative fees and paying for that TV ad.

Then there is the fact that I just can't give the X amount of dollars (maybe I can) though the ads want X amount each month.

I like to be charitable by giving the gift of time, "my time".

I give the gift of my time where I get the most benefit or enjoyment.

Clue: right here on this forum.

If anyone wants to show their appreciation there is the gift of PIE.

https://permies.com/forums/pie/list

What you get with PIE

https://permies.com/wiki/pie

Everyone can give the gift of time by making great posts or topics that will earn thumbs-ups and apples.

Thank you to everyone for making this such a great place to spend time.

Hi Teresa,

I was the CEO if a not for profit for many years.  I made a point of keeping my salary 20% below the norm for the organization size, type, and location as well as  considering my education and experience.   I also try to see what the organization has accomplished.   I often hear much too much about future plans.  Those mean little to me. One maxim I go by is “The best indicator of future behavior is past behavior.”

But I also am concerned about less formal donations. Donation of time, for example.  Time donations not only to NPOs but individuals......especially  individuals.   I am sure that many of us have lent a helpful hand to someone who was grateful for the help and used the assistance wisely.  I am also sure that just as many of us have found a leech attached to us sucking the blood out of our bodies after we provided help. Ditto for smaller amounts of money to individuals.

Hi Anne,

It bothers me when an NPO has 80% of its income directed toward marketing. There is one well known national NPO that appears to be on its way out. It was supported by virtually every community in spite of the fact that the research clearly showed that its programs did not work and there were better and cheaper programs out there. They did have a masterful marketing department. Every time it was confronted with the research, it claimed the research was about its old programs and not about is new ones. Of course, whenever research appeared that discredited its new programs....well, there were even newer ones to take its place.  It looks like that after a few decades of new and improved programs, people have begun to wise up.

Just an observation - and something I try to live by...

I've observed that scammers and charlatans have no problem getting up in your face and asking for/guilting you into, giving them money.  It's the little guy, the struggling single mom, the one too proud to ask for help -- that's who really needs it.

My personal guideline is simple (in concept, anyway). If YOU ask ME, the answer is always "no".  I have to find YOU.

Unfortunately this makes my job as the giver 100x harder.  It requires intentionality (so I don't forget) and a greater awareness of those around me.  It requires asking around, getting to know people, getting involved.  These are all good traits to cultivate for sure, but not nearly as easy as passively waiting for the opportunity to come to you and simply writing a check.

Doing it this way, we've met all kinds of people in our community that we'd never have crossed paths with.  (Oh, the stories I could tell!)  Many people have come and gone and that's to be expected, but surprisingly, a few have developed into some of our closest friends.

A safe place to give your charitable contributions is in the local area.  Your church, your kids' activities like FFA, FHA, 4-H, Scouts, and Little League, the Community Garden, and others you may know of.

These could both be monetary and/or the gift of time.

Hi Anne,

One thing I look for if I make a donation of, say, $100 or more to a local organization is a note from them saying how my donation is being used.  I seldom donate to religious organizations unless they have identified a specific project it will be used for.

Winco sells a gift card that can be used to buy anything in their grocery stores except alcohol and tobacco. I try to give one to panhandlers when they ask for something. Or I share something from my lunch bag. These actions don't solve all of the person's problems. But it helps them get through the day. And it goes directly to someone in need.

Probably the best bang you can get for your charitable dollars is from RIP Medical Debt. They buy bad debt for cents on the dollar, and then forgive it. They claim that every $100 in donations leads to $10,000 in debt forgiveness.

This is such a great question to explore, John! This is something I've been pondering lately. In the past, I've given to non-profits. Lately, I've been feeling like that isn't the best use of my extremely limited time and funds. I like to look into whether the board of directors, CEOs, etc. have any clear conflicts of interest. This can be tough and I still haven't found an easy way to do it. I've been pretty shocked at what I've found for a few though, so definitely worth investigating. I'm probably just going to shift away from that kind of giving and focus on giving to people I know. Probably more time than money.

Whether it's an individual or an organization, there are some general rules I follow in deciding to give. If someone is using fear or guilt to try to get me to give, I don't and may even distance myself from them. If someone has a clear, specific goal or request, I am much more likely to help than if they're vague about what it is they need or are trying to do. I think this is especially important with individuals to avoid "If you give a mouse a cookie" type situations. We have one friend that will ask for one favor and once he has us there, will inevitably try to rope us into more than we agreed to. Which brings me to probably my most important, though simple rule. If I don't feel good about it and like I can do it with an open-heart, I don't give.

I've been thinking about this from the other side of things a lot too, as I'm realizing that I need to ask for help from others more often. This is challenging, but I think it's really important. Especially when I consider this insight from Brene Brown, “Until we can receive with an open heart, we're never really giving with an open heart. When we attach judgment to receiving help, we knowingly or unknowingly attach judgment to giving help.”

I try to keep my giving where I know where it is going rather than donating to organizations to do it for me.  I make a bit of an exception for church.  But even there most of my effort goes into things I know where they are going.  For example we have emergency firewood that usually amounts to about 4 to 10 cords in any given year that we as a group cut and split.  Even there sometimes it is wisely used and others poorly used.  But I do the best I can.  Mostly I give help in the physical sense in person because I have the best control over how my time and resources are used.

Some of it is charity where there is genuine need.  Other times it is is helping people reach for their dreams.  For example a friend an hour away is working on building an orchard.  Went and helped them 200 plant trees in the spring.  They probably could easily have afforded to hire the help to do it.  But I firmly believe in helping when I can on dreams when they are putting in genuine and well thought out effort

Hi Heather,

Guidestar.org is a free site that allows you to examine the tax returns of NPOs.  Those papers should identify the salary of the CEO and others as well as listing the names of the board of directors.  There are a few problems with this. The first is that bonuses are often not addressed on the forms on the site, ditto for fringe benefits, and , sometimes, where the information on the CEO should be listed it says “ see the attached”. Of course, the attached is not shown.

Of course, then there is the responsibility to reasonably interpret the information collected.  For example, I have no hesitation to tell anyone that the head of the Salvation Army gets incredibly low reimbursement even when considering the benefits.  But, I also consider the head of the Red Cross to be reasonably paid, even though , the last time I checked, she was making in the neighborhood of $600,000.00 a year. Why? Because she is an MD and left a higher paying position ......and....I compared the size of her org/salary to other organizations.

Hi Jeremy,

Regarding RIP,  I have to admire an org that lists its tax returns on its web site.  By a few measures, the salaries of the leadership is reasonable ....even modest. First the salaries are reasonable.  Second, the org has seen huge growth, but the salaries of the leadership were kept in check. Finally, the salary of the CEO is not greatly above that of his key subordinates.

When I look at guidestar, it tells me I need a monthly plan to see the financial details of an organization.

I only recently got to place where I feel I can give much money. We have our property paid off, we've got a few toys (like a snowblower) that make life easier (no more backpacking up the driveway all winter) and we've got enough money coming in that we can spend a bit extra on a big project every year. For the last couple years and this year coming up it's been improving our 700ish metre driveway.

Point is, I'm only recently thinking more about who to give to and how to decide. I like the idea of effective altruism, so last year I gave to charities recommended by thelifeyoucansave.org. Seems like they rely somewhat on vetting work done by others (they mention GiveWell and Impact Matters) and then apply their own criteria once they've narrowed the options. They go into what they look for in an organization and have lots of other nteresting things to think about if you look through their FAQ.

Their organizations are pretty much, maybe all, international. A dollar does more in the global South than it does in the north. Seva, one of the organizations I donate to, needs only $50US for cataract surgery. What would $50 do if I gave it to an organization working in Canada? Nothing comparable.

I do think local charity is important, but, looking around my community, it seems like actions would be more useful than money. I see organizations that need more volunteers and government policy changes that need advocates, etc.  Action is harder for me cause I hate leaving the property 😁. I'm working on getting involved in something, though.