Composting When You 'Can't Compost'?

Hello, friends!

It's been awhile since I posted here, so I'm happy to be back. A lot has changed in that time. The part that's changed that is relevant to this post is that I no longer have a large piece of land to frolic about on, I have a fractional smish of an acre in a very urban area of Tacoma, Washington. My aim is to, starting with compost, moving to rain harvesting and then to the actual plants (I want to make sure I can give them happy soil amendments and water them responsibly beforehand...) come up with methods of implementing these things that are fantastic and good, somewhat/as much as is possible friendly for access by a tiny human on the Autism spectrum, impervious to the neighborhood kitties, and that doesn't enrage my landlord (who is my neighbor on the west side) or her adult son (who is my neighbor on the north side)... Unique obstacles make you more resilient! Right!?

So, as I said, I am hoping to begin with composting. My reason for this is that I feel a compulsion to do more responsible things with the food scraps from my own kitchen, kind of immediately. It's really setting in how much of a super-sponge my tiny human is right now, and I know that what he interprets right now is likely to stick with him for all of his evers... I would love for that to include fond memories of the excitement and feeling of accomplishment from turning the parts of his food that he can't eat into dirt that can feed the food that he will eat!

Specific barriers I need to wiggle around:
- When I moved into this house, there was a rodent infestation that I have had to work carefully and very diligently to rectify, and I don't want to undo my work by creating a reason for them to come hang out again. (The kitten I rescued from under my porch in the blistering summer heat whom I named Tchavo is a big help with that, my humble thanks, but I can't rely on him for this whole job, you know?) Some of the habits and such of the neighbors and surrounding folks' places already encourage rodents so I really am concerned about making it worse or inviting them back into my home. That's perhaps my highest priority item to address.
- The landlord and her family aren't very open to my ideas, and as of right now, don't seem to be open to discussing the matter to any helpful resolution point. NOTE: I have not been directly or expressly told that I couldn't do these things, nor does the verbage in my lease prevent me from these things. I just want to do my very best to keep the peace, and also very genuinely believe that once they get to reap the benefits of the ends, that it will absolutely justify the means, you know?
- I am often very forgetful, and when I'm regulating my memory well, I am stretched a little bit on the thin side and don't have a fantastic amount of time for anything, really, but the things that I find important I do my best to make sure time is kept for. I think what I mean to say is that the system I implement needs to be simple to use and as low-maintenance as possible. (DUH!)

I have a feeling that this post is already way too long winded, which is a huge flaw of mine, I do apologize, but with that information, I am hoping to have some friends throw some input my direction about what they have done themselves that worked or didn't, what they suggest or angles that they can see as viable here that I am not able to see from my vantage point right now.

I have composted twice in the past, and once I was successful, but I'm not sure why it was successful. I didn't truly know what I was doing, I was definitely winging it, and I'd very much like to go into this more mindfully and intentionally. I want to have a plan and an expectation of the results.

In advance, please accept my appreciation and great thanks for even reading, if you made it this far, and for any help you might provide me.

Love and Respect,

F

P.S. Don't know if I remembered to include this already, but I'm hoping to make the system I implement accessible to my autistic toddler if that changes anything about your potential input.

Welcome back.

It sounds to me that Bokashi Composting would be what might work for you:

https://permies.com/t/11246/bokashi

https://permies.com/t/78784/Bokashi-Composting

https://permies.com/t/188531/composting/Bokashi

You might also consider a worm bin. Or one of those enclosed compost tumblers.

Hello Faeryn, and welcome back!

Count me down as another vote for worm composting or vermicomposting as it is otherwise known.  I wish that I could pass down wisdom about this method, but I tried once and failed miserably, but don’t let that stop you!  I can tell you that I let my bin get too wet and I did not have drainage holes in it—big no-no’s!  Mine made a stinky mess which is what happens when you (I) don’t put in drain holes and let it get too wet.  Also, being too wet will attract fruit flies.  So what I am trying to say is that mine failed miserably for basically one simple reason for which I was warned and should have been more aware.  I strongly suspect that if you tackle this one issue that you will be very successful in worm composting.

Good luck in whatever you do, and by all means, if you have ongoing questions, please ask.  Also, please keep us up to date!

Eric

Anne Miller wrote:Welcome back.

It sounds to me that Bokashi Composting would be what might work for you:

https://permies.com/t/11246/bokashi

https://permies.com/t/78784/Bokashi-Composting

https://permies.com/t/188531/composting/Bokashi

Anne, thank you very much. I am going to take a look at those links now. That is a very new term to me. I'm excited to see what it's all about. I am very appreciative of your time and reply.

L&R!

Christopher Weeks wrote:You might also consider a worm bin. Or one of those enclosed compost tumblers.

Hi Christopher! Thank you for taking the time to read my post and reply. I'm very appreciative. You are the second person to suggest a worm bin. I suppose it's time to do some reading on worm bins and hopefully figure out what's going to work here. Have you made a worm bin before?

L&R!

Eric Hanson wrote:Hello Faeryn, and welcome back!

Count me down as another vote for worm composting or vermicomposting as it is otherwise known.  I wish that I could pass down wisdom about this method, but I tried once and failed miserably, but don’t let that stop you!  I can tell you that I let my bin get too wet and I did not have drainage holes in it—big no-no’s!  Mine made a stinky mess which is what happens when you (I) don’t put in drain holes and let it get too wet.  Also, being too wet will attract fruit flies.  So what I am trying to say is that mine failed miserably for basically one simple reason for which I was warned and should have been more aware.  I strongly suspect that if you tackle this one issue that you will be very successful in worm composting.

Good luck in whatever you do, and by all means, if you have ongoing questions, please ask.  Also, please keep us up to date!

Eric

Wow, Eric! What an enthusiastic and great reply. From the bottom to the top of my little heart I thank you. Many more years ago than I'd care to admit to, I did the exact same thing you did. The only difference was that when I decided that it needed holes, it was for airflow, not for drainage, and I put the holes in the top. And made them way too large. So I got a wet, soupy mess that my housemates were not thrilled about. I'm curious as to the container I used as well being okay. I couldn't say for sure anymore, but I do believe I used a Rubbermaid bin. Something is teling me that's not ideal.

Thank you very much for your input and time. I am going to do some reading on the composting types suggested and weigh the pros and cons to each method based on what I've got available for materials, space, maintenance needs and of course, how low I can keep it on the Neighbo-Radar. That makes me giggle.

Much thanks and appreciation for your time and input.

L&R

I have a bit of homework to do, thanks to the kind folks that gave me their input. So, today, I'm going to do just that and see if I can't nail down which method I should go with and then figure out my next steps from there.

I am curious. Can I begin collecting my kitchen scraps now? What can I do with them for the time being that isn't gross or irritating to folks? Or is it best for me to wait until my system is up and running?

It hurts my feelings to throw food scraps in a garbage can.

L&R,

F

Depends on scale and timing. I know a guy who freezes scraps until he's ready to feed the worms (every two weeks or something) But your freezer might fill up. I don't really think dehydrating them is economical. I'd just tuck them into the mulch, but I've never had a real rodent problem, so I might feel different if that were an issue for me.

Christopher Weeks wrote:Depends on scale and timing. I know a guy who freezes scraps until he's ready to feed the worms (every two weeks or something) But your freezer might fill up. I don't really think dehydrating them is economical. I'd just tuck them into the mulch, but I've never had a real rodent problem, so I might feel different if that were an issue for me.

"Worms Against Previously Frozen Fruits" or "Frozen Food Scraps: Not Even Once - A message from the Wiggly Frozen Fighters of Faeryn's Worm Bin"....

But seriously...

Why on Earth did I not consider the freezer?! What a perfect idea, and I happen to have a rather handsome tract of available real estate for such a purpose.

Quickly, gentlemen, to the freezer!

Thank you very, very much.

(And pardon my attempt at humor, I think I am funny but it may only be that I have had too much coffee and had way too much fun imagining an assembly of Worms Against Previously Frozen Fruits. They had campaign shirts and everything.)

L&R!

Faeryn, and a cheap rodent proof solution that I have been using to compost for some years now is a galvanized trashcan with quarter inch holes drilled in it for aeration. More durable and less expensive than most of the plastic composter dohickeys available.

Check out geme composters.  Yes, it is a bit different than what we typically consider and the cost is stupid, but this gets rid of most things in a day.  It's scary fast.  I mix in with worm food for my worms and my worm bin is on steroids.  A little goes a long way.  I also use it to make a leaf mold tea when I don't have leaf mold and works similarly and has done wonders.  Especially in compacted soil areas, but I also add a few other things for that, too.

For me, this is as if bokashi became bokashi 2.0

This is the site:
https://www.geme.bio/?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiA_9u5BhCUARIsABbMSPtYNs7QEcOOVjvjBSkgAmF_KIuC1gfsfZPkjlCxKrYDnIerHsgTiOgaAvTeEALw_wcB

I'm on a bokashi adventure myself, so here's another vote for that method of dealing with kitchen scraps. I'm documenting my progress over at this thread. I included several resources (both on Permies and elsewhere) which helped my understanding of the method.

Mk Neal wrote:Faeryn, and a cheap rodent proof solution that I have been using to compost for some years now is a galvanized trashcan with quarter inch holes drilled in it for aeration. More durable and less expensive than most of the plastic composter dohickeys available.

Wow! No kidding? And it does the job just like the fancy mamma jammas? How exciting.

I am curious about using aluminum with compost that will eventually cozy up to my food. I am no doctor, rarely play one on television but do happen to hang out in the camp with the folks that are of the belief that aluminum and food containers can give things like Parkinson's disease a nice strong hand up into total lunacy. There will be water if Ka wills it, of course, but I don't want to go on and invite it into my noggin, so... I think I need to do some research. Part of me thinks that the zinc (correct me if I'm way off base here but isn't the zinc coating kind of the catalyst component to it being 'galvanized' versus just being aluminum?) may prevent the aluminum from leaching into the compost, but part of me also wonders if high acidity could ruin the integrity of zinc coating? Another part of me also wonders if I am over thinking this.

If it's safe to use, I have an idea that would be a bit of fun. I shall show you with a pictoral diagram of the highest caliber. Ein moment, bitte...

Harry Soloman wrote:Check out geme composters.  Yes, it is a bit different than what we typically consider and the cost is stupid, but this gets rid of most things in a day.  It's scary fast.  I mix in with worm food for my worms and my worm bin is on steroids.  A little goes a long way.  I also use it to make a leaf mold tea when I don't have leaf mold and works similarly and has done wonders.  Especially in compacted soil areas, but I also add a few other things for that, too.

For me, this is as if bokashi became bokashi 2.0

This is the site:
https://www.geme.bio/?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiA_9u5BhCUARIsABbMSPtYNs7QEcOOVjvjBSkgAmF_KIuC1gfsfZPkjlCxKrYDnIerHsgTiOgaAvTeEALw_wcB

Thanks for the reply, Mister Harry, very appreciated. And the information is helpful! Thank you so much!

Sara Hartwin wrote:I'm on a bokashi adventure myself, so here's another vote for that method of dealing with kitchen scraps. I'm documenting my progress over at this thread. I included several resources (both on Permies and elsewhere) which helped my understanding of the method.

Miss Sara, thank you for your response. I am very grateful. I am going to check out the thread you shared a bit later when I have a moment. I can't wait. Thanks so much, I'm incredibly grateful!

I would like to thank everyone who replied to my post before anything else. I really appreciate all the great input. After researching bokashi method, vermicomposting and just kicking it old school, I have decided to go with a traditional compost bin for now, and would like to add a second worm bin down the road a bit. I've got to start small or I'll overwhelm myself.

So now that I narrowed down the method I am going to use, I am going to start designing my set up. I did some research about the galvanized can method, and because I have such a high amount of moisture and rainfall in the area I live, galvanized is not the way to go for my compost bin because the zinc or iron will runoff into the compost inevitably and I'd prefer to avoid that if I can.

So the next step is to research and come up with the type of bin I want to use. I know a local business that sells food-grade 15 - 50 gallon drums. I might consider trying to use one of those since I'll be buying a few for water harvesting down the road and that way, my new additions will all look similar and may attract less attention?

But I'm going to keep researching, to see what other options there are that may be better suited. If anyone has suggestions about what has worked for them, I'd love to hear them!

L&R

Similar to something Christopher said, years ago I saved all my veggie scraps to make broth.

And then there is scrap cooking:

https://permies.com/t/216892/Scrap-Cooking

Here is another thread with suggestions for those scraps:

https://permies.com/t/157796/composting/Kitchen-scraps-favorite-recycle-method

A strong vote for worm composting.  A simple tote as-is or a kitchen trash can - set-up like a flow-thru - are very easy to own and operate.
Treat a new worm bin like a baby and you'll be just fine.  Keep it comfortable, not too wet, don't feed it too much and act like you like it.
After a month or so it will mature (they grow up so quick!) and then it will be game on.

The flow-thru with the window was made because I'm an engineer and my wife is an artist.
She said show me.  So after explaining it to her ALL day, I made this.

Good luck with whatever route you go.

Seconding the various comments about worm bins. Traditional garden composting is great if you have loads of bulky garden waste - leaves, grass clippings, weeds etc... It's less good for kitchen scraps which tend to get added incrementally, as they become a magnet for rodents and you noted. We still choose to compost and/or feed to the chickens, but both the chickens and the compost heaps are a long way from the house, and any neighbours.

A contained worm bin would be rodent-proof which would keep the neighbours happy.

On the other hand, you might want to look into getting some chickens - assuming circumstances allow. Our birds eat pretty much all of our kitchen scraps (we put them out in the morning so they are all gone by dusk, to prevent rodents feasting). If you do a deep litter system you get loads of fantastic compost from the run, and they also eat lots of the softer weeds as well.

Anne Miller wrote:Similar to something Christopher said, years ago I saved all my veggie scraps to make broth.

And then there is scrap cooking:

https://permies.com/t/216892/Scrap-Cooking

Here is another thread with suggestions for those scraps:

https://permies.com/t/157796/composting/Kitchen-scraps-favorite-recycle-method

I am saying this before looking into the idea of broth... But boy, my curiosity is piqued. I have never thought about scraps in this way... I am PUMPED to check this out. THANK YOU!!!

Keith Odell wrote:A strong vote for worm composting.  A simple tote as-is or a kitchen trash can - set-up like a flow-thru - are very easy to own and operate.
Treat a new worm bin like a baby and you'll be just fine.  Keep it comfortable, not too wet, don't feed it too much and act like you like it.
After a month or so it will mature (they grow up so quick!) and then it will be game on.

The flow-thru with the window was made because I'm an engineer and my wife is an artist.
She said show me.  So after explaining it to her ALL day, I made this.

Good luck with whatever route you go.

Thank you SO much for sharing this. How absolutely cool is that?! I have a couple of questions about your set up if you'd not be too bothered by me asking.

I am really into that. Super stellar.

L&R,
F

I make a lot of compost and I have worms. I keep European Night Crawlers in tubs in a room with the door closed and an energy saving LED light globe on all the time. I cover the soil in the worm bins with a thick layer of newspaper. If things aren't to the worms liking and it's dark, they'll crawl out and leave. Having a light on prevents that. No drain holes, just a good absorbent mix and the correct amount of water. Don't overfeed them and it won't turn into a stinky mess. I also have a multi bin compost system where some of the left over kitchen waste ends up but most of it goes to the chooks (that's Australian for chickens) as well as lawn clippings and leaves. Here's the bit some of you mightn't like. I use some of my big fat worms as bait for fishing in the river. It's full of invasive carp- it's actually illegal here to return them to the water if you catch one. I usually catch eight to fifteen, from a couple of pounds to nine pounds or so. I bring them all home and layer them in next seasons compost bin under leaves and lawn clippings. I also collect every bit of charcoal from stove, heater and burn piles, smash it up and layer that in as well. The compost bin I've just used on my vege seedlings contained multiple layers of leaves, grass, cow sheep and poultry manure, one hundred and nineteen kilos of carp, a bag of lime and eight big bags of crushed charcoal. Fantastic stuff. The fish completely disappear except for the occasional gill cover and a few teeth. No smell.

Thank you SO much for sharing this. How absolutely cool is that?! I have a couple of questions about your set up if you'd not be too bothered by me asking.

I am really into that. Super stellar.

L&R,
F
**************************************************************************
Faeryn,

You're welcome & thanks.  But first let me explain! No, there is too much. Let me sum up.

Cut a hole in the bottom of the front.  This is for air and harvesting.  
Above this, drill matching holes.  4 or 5 supports, double the holes on the front and back for the support for the false floor.
Insert support of your choice.  I've used all-thread, conduit, garden stakes and am currently using 16 gauge wire threaded.
Install false floor. I wrap 2-3 sheets of newsprint each way (front to back, side/side) with a piece of cardboard over that,  Makes a basket to hold the contents.
Add ~ 4" of bulky bedding.  Egg cartons, toilet paper rolls, shredded cardboard.
Add ~ 4" less bulky bedding.  Shredded paper.
Add food and worms.  Top off with bedding of your choice.
Pour 1 to 2 quarts of compost tea, rain, pond or non-chlorinated water, old coffee or tea slowly over the top.
Lay something over the surface.  Cardboard, burlap, newspaper or a plastic bag.
I like the plastic bag.  It keeps the moisture in and is a good indicator of worm activity - on the underside, you'll find poop, worm trails or worms.
After the compost has built up (4" to 6"), the false floor can be removed for light harvesting or gravity fed dropping.  Time varies, 3-12 months.
From then on just leave the supports, no false floor and let them do that thing they do, so well!

Food goes in the top, air from the bottom, worms work in the middle and good stuff comes out the bottom.

I make these in 11-gallon, 23-gallon and 55-gallon versions.
For the 11 and 23, I use a drill, utility knife and a hair dryer.  55, drill and jig saw.  To add the window, I also use sealant or caulk.

If you are going to only do 1 worm bin.  I would do this.  If you want to do multiple, do totes and then use this as your compost finisher/easy harvester.

Hope this helps.  If not, fire away.

Keith