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Poor man's poll - alternate name for RMH

 
paul wheaton
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We are fiddling with the idea of a new name.  For reasons.  Please click on the thumbs up for the name(s) below that you think are best.  Feel free to choose more than one.  

And, as always, people with PIE get two upvotes and a downvote.

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montana masonry heater

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triple burn masonry heater

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prometheus heater

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atlas masonry heater

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pocket masonry heater

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paul wheaton wrote:montana masonry heater



I prefer Montana Masonry Stove.

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Paul just so you know the thumbs down I gave in your survey was not to be taken personally!!

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https://Permies.com/t/267198/turnkey-permaculture-paradise-monies

 
Deane Adams
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Here's one to try :  Rocky Mountain Heater

Peace

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Can there be a greater explanation for prometheus and atlas?

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I love that Rocket Mass Heaters are Carbon-Nuetral. In Erica's and Ernies Art of Fire Presentation, Erica explains the chemistry of how that's possible!

 
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Alexandra Malecki wrote:Can there be a greater explanation for prometheus and atlas?



Nope!

That's kinda the whole idea - what name might lead to 1000x more buy-in to the idea.  Just with the name - no explanation.

Also, any explanation might tip the scales on who is pushing it!

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Triple Burn Masonry Heater definitely makes it feel like you're getting more for less.
 
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alex caldwell wrote:Triple Burn Masonry Heater definitely makes it feel like you're getting more for less.



I like the idea of hearing about the impressions of the names.  What people like, don't like, etc.

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prometheus and atlas give me the impression that it's a brand-name, not a technology.

Triple burn masonry gives me the impression that it's more efficient. I wonder if it could be interpreted as a system requiring more operational work, as in you need to burn three fires. Which isn't necessarily wrong if you need to prime the system. This naming is my favorite one.

Montana seems inaccurate since these systems have been developed globally.

"pocket" seems inaccurate since it's not actually pocket size. Also, it seems unprofessional.

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I love that Rocket Mass Heaters are Carbon-Nuetral. In Erica's and Ernies Art of Fire Presentation, Erica explains the chemistry of how that's possible!

 
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After a two hour long conversation with mud, the general idea is ... vaguely ...  is it possible that a change of name will save the world? RMH stuff is stunning and world saving.  But interest has been low.  

I sent a copy of the better world book to a youtube guy that is bonkers about world saving stuff.  He replied that the book sucked because it advocated a heat system that burned petroleum.  

Then there is stuff about codes and insurance.  All wood burning stuff is out - except masonry heater stuff.  And we say "this is a type of masonry heater" and they say "then why isn't masonry heater in the name?"

After that comes other issues that the names can solve, but we have some disagreement on upsides v downsides ...  

I do think that it is possible that a name change could lead to 1000x more interest.  So let's fish around for what is an excellent name.

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Alexandra Malecki wrote:prometheus and atlas give me the impression that it's a brand-name, not a technology.

Triple burn masonry gives me the impression that it's more efficient. I wonder if it could be interpreted as a system requiring more operational work, as in you need to burn three fires. Which isn't necessarily wrong if you need to prime the system. This naming is my favorite one.

Montana seems inaccurate since these systems have been developed globally.

"pocket" seems inaccurate since it's not actually pocket size. Also, it seems unprofessional.



I'm resonating with Alexandra's comments, I think there are drawbacks to each of the options.  In my own universe I would call it something like a Masonry Mass Heater/Stove, but since these are the options, I'll place my vote and otherwise be quiet.
 
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I echo some of the sentiments on the names so far:
  • Montana is local and we want world domination
  • Atlas and Prometheus seem like brands, which could be anything
  • ā€stoveā€ sounds to me like a cooking appliance, which this may do, but also might not
  • pocket seems lackluster and not quite as fitting, given a cob mass could be many tons
  • triple burn is my favorite so far, but I worry people are going to think ā€œoh now I have to do three things?ā€ or ā€œI need three stoves?ā€


    • I thought of this listening to the podcastā€¦ what about:
    Biophilic Masonry Heater?
     
    Erik Weaver
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    Masonry Mass Heater/stove I like best.
    2nd choice Triple Burn Mass Heater and
    Montana Mass Heater third.
    The first two are fairly accurate descriptions. Montana is actually misleading, but better that the really poor choices.
     
    Erik Weaver
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    (Quote)
    Then there is stuff about codes and insurance.  All wood burning stuff is out - except masonry heater stuff.  And we say "this is a type of masonry heater" and they say "then why isn't masonry heater in the name?"
    (End Quote)

    Masonry Heater should certainly be in the name, for the above cited insurance and code observations.
    That's why I like Masonry Mass Heater/Stove as the best re-naming. With the prefix Triple Burn as a decent descriptor.
     
    paul wheaton
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    Since i didn't put "stove" up as an initial offering, and because this commentary is far enough down ...

    I agree with clay:  "stove" sounds like it is for cooking.  

    "Masonry Heater" gets the green light from building codes and insurance companies.

    And now that we are so far down in the comments, I will share some thoughts on the two winners so far ...   "montana" has the plus of "cold country" plus a bit of "hillbilly tech".  "triple burn" is supposed to put into your head that the smoke and creosote also get burned.  The discussion about these two would fill a couple of hours, but there ya go - a little taste! :)

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    I'm not crazy about any of those options. Some don't roll off the tongue and some do not explain what it is.

    It really is a thermal battery system... could you use heat battery or thermal battery as part of it?

    Wood fired thermal battery?

    Rocket Heat Battery?

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    ran thru words describing: environment impact, what it is, what it does. then tried to rhyme (maybe a bit too corny but :  Healthy Hearth Heater??
     
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    Biophilic Masonry Heater?



    George Carlin once said "Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that."

    What percentage of the population would be jazzed about "biophilic" in the name?  And that's kinda the core of this discussion.  The name "rocket mass heater" should make no difference.  this stuff is epicly good.  But that is the exercise we are attempting right now - what if the name can make all the difference?  Then what name should we pick?

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    Personally, I prefer Smokeless Masonry Heater best. Just don't ever abbreviate it. I get Stephen's concerns about the abbreviation but I think the smokeless association outweighs the cons here.

    I wish there was a way to really beautify the design. Aesthetics aren't my forte. A designer in the natural building sphere attended my workshop and said that she would never put it in a living space because the barrel was so abhorrent. However, she was impressed by the performance and I believe it might make it into her future garage/work space.  

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    I love that Rocket Mass Heaters are Carbon-Nuetral. In Erica's and Ernies Art of Fire Presentation, Erica explains the chemistry of how that's possible!

     
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    https://permies.com/w/beautiful-rocket-mass-heaters

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    Jerry McIntire
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    Don't like any of  the alternatives. My suggestion: Rocket Masonry Heater. Still RMH.

    If I don't get to suggest, triple burn is the only acceptable one.

    Praying my way through the day

     
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    Masonry Heater, now with Triple Burn technology will really stir up the eco-tech heads, including the MJ burners, while not excluding others.

    Seems like a win!

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    Alexandra Malecki wrote:Personally, I prefer Smokeless Masonry Heater best. Just don't ever abbreviate it. I get Stephen's concerns about the abbreviation but I think the smokeless association outweighs the cons here.



    Keep in mind that 98% of the problem is corporate trolls.  this stuff is a huge threat to the profits of several entities.  SMH gives fuel to the trolls.

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    I'm not sure I like any of the options either. I can agree with the other comments,  Triple Burn Masonry Heater is probably the best, but I still think it could be better. If you are wanting to appeal to a wider audience who doesn't know as thing about rocket mass heaters, then consider some of the key words that are bounced around a lot these days (like: eco, zero-waste, sustainable, regenerative).

    Using the term "high efficiency" instead of "triple burn" might catch the attention of more people.
     
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    how about rocket masonry heater
     
    Supa mic
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    I think a really good option which was suggested previously but missed in this poll was "Radiant Masonry Heater"


    Which keeps the well known acronym RMH that is ubiquitous throughout the internet as seen https://www.acronymfinder.com/Science-and-Medicine/RMH.html

    If we are not trying to keep the same acronym and this is only for regulatory filings, I might include "Total Combustion Radiant Masonry Heater" in place of "Rocket" shorthand.


    2024-11-18-14_52-RMH-Science-Medicine-Acronym-Rating.png
    RMH Acronym R
    RMH Acronym Rating
     
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    "The 3rd Degree Masonry Heater" is punny but might get you nasty letters from Masonic PooBah attorneys šŸ˜‚

     
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    paul wheaton wrote:

    Alexandra Malecki wrote:Can there be a greater explanation for prometheus and atlas?



    Also, any explanation might tip the scales on who is pushing it!



    Ooo.  Heavy.  Maybe for, not on  

    yes

     
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    ā€œSmokeless Masonry Heaterā€

    This gets my vote.
     
    Alexandra Malecki
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    Given my limited experience, I think the issue isnā€™t with the naming.

    I think the first issue is with the look of it. A lot of people donā€™t want cob, pebbles, or barrels in their living room. For the subset of people who can get past the look of it, now the major impediment is that it isnā€™t in a showroom along with their competitor products because the best performers are DIY not a COTS product. Realistically, whatā€™s the subset of people gutsy enough to DIY one? Iā€™ve met 3 out in the wild and one of them wasn't successful. I've heard of others. Then, if you can get past the look and the DIY, then the problem is the legal stuff, depending where you live.

    The majority of people who know what a rocket mass is, want one, but they are unlikely to DIY one and havenā€™t heard enough compelling information about the limited COTS products available to switch.

    That being said, I also have a growing list of people who are asking me to build rockets for them which is a bit shocking, again, because of my aforementioned limited experience. People want one but either give up on building one or are too intimidated to build one.

    Rebranding can have advantages but, from what Iā€™ve seen, there is always a bumpy period after renaming. There does stand the possibility of strengthening the image but it can also confuse people. I donā€™t get the sense that thereā€™s a strong marketing budget to invest into this. I also donā€™t get the sense that the people I know who already knew about RMHs have any issue with the current name.

    Sorry!! Iā€™m so curious to find out if youā€™re right. Would changing the name make any difference?? I certainly donā€™t have a crystal ball. My instinct tells me that the name isnā€™t the reason why it isnā€™t in every home. I personally feel like ā€˜rocketā€™ is a catchy name that makes people curious but perhaps itā€™s intimidating. Idk. Iā€™m passively doing market research on this ;)

    I'm pursuing SKIP to inherit property, check it out for yourself: SKIP book
    I love that Rocket Mass Heaters are Carbon-Nuetral. In Erica's and Ernies Art of Fire Presentation, Erica explains the chemistry of how that's possible!

     
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    Supa mic wrote:I think a really good option which was suggested previously but missed in this poll was "Radiant Masonry Heater"

    Which keeps the well known acronym RMH that is ubiquitous throughout the internet as seen https://www.acronymfinder.com/Science-and-Medicine/RMH.html

    If we are not trying to keep the same acronym and this is only for regulatory filings, I might include "Total Combustion Radiant Masonry Heater" in place of "Rocket" shorthand.



    (TC)RMH = (Total Combustion) Radiant Masonry Heater.
    I like that the best so far! Great suggestion.

    1. Retains the RMH. (Useful in future Internet searches, I should think.)

    2. "Radiant," captures the barrel's purpose exceptionally well; and this is certainly one of the major differences to a traditional "mass heater." Therefore the change in name is practical, more descriptive, and a logical extension of the item being described.

    3. And I like adding the "TC" for the "technical" description for referencing in code. This is also a logical, accurate naming convention. And since it adds two adjectives to the Technical Name, Code Nerds may like it better too, lol.

    Big thumbs up!
     
    Peter Bring
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    Montana Masonry Heater gets my vote. Rolls off the tongue, with a folksy, underground vibe. Has "Masonry Heater" in the title for the red tape brigade.

    It doesn't matter if they were not invented in Montana, though the rebranding was started in Montana. The Spanish Flu didn't start in Spain, and Nebraska-style strawbale buildings aren't only in Nebraska.

    Rocket Masonry Heater would be my second choice. Sure, "it sounds like a rocket" and "its insulated combustion chamber burns very thoroughly " may appeal to me personally, but the goal here is to get butts-in-(heated)-seats. Any technical, efficiency, or especially "eco" terminology may very well turn off more people than it attracts, especially among the uninitiated.
     
    L Gaudette
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    So I'm someone who's been aware of Rocket heaters and wood gassifier stoves for a couple years now. I have a little Solo stove for camping.

    I'd like something that I can work into my 60's "decorative" fireplace (which currently has a gas insert in it) as emergency backup and supplementary heat on really cold days where a heat pump will struggle. But I'm definitely hesitant to DIY something involving fire indoors, and care about things like insurance coverage and it looking nice. And in the end for my use case it's likely that I'll end up with an off the shelf fireplace insert or wood stove.

    If Masonry heaters are understood by insurance and local ordinances, and rebranding it as a specific kind of masonry heater helps, that seems great! But some of that may be more about things like UL listing etc. for which maybe it's possible to come up with some sort of kit that would work to satisfy that while still letting people source a lot of materials?

    Some of the DIY builds are very nice looking. The Liberator is the one thing I've come across that's something you can just go and buy under the RMH name but there's no way I could get my husband to agree to that in the living room (where the chimney is!), I don't think I want it in my living room either!
     
    Alexandra Malecki
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    paul wheaton wrote:https://permies.com/w/beautiful-rocket-mass-heaters



    I sent this link to the previously mentioned designer, as in aesthetics. She likes the masonry style aesthetic (no barrel) but was hoping to find a custom stratification chamber that was beautiful. She wants a 55gal barrel alternative.

    I could get behind the Radiant Masonry Heater renaming

    I'm pursuing SKIP to inherit property, check it out for yourself: SKIP book
    I love that Rocket Mass Heaters are Carbon-Nuetral. In Erica's and Ernies Art of Fire Presentation, Erica explains the chemistry of how that's possible!

     
    Glenn Herbert
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    Two thoughts on Radiant Masonry Heater:
    All masonry heaters are radiant, so this is not a meaningful distinction.
    With the trend toward (masonry) bells, it is common now for there to be no barrel, thus no major instant radiant heat.

    I like the suggestion for Reburning Masonry Heater. It doesn't have the possible implication of extra work that Triple Burn has, and keeps the familiar acronym, which I think is important.
     
    Just the other day, I was thinking ... about this tiny ad:
    GAMCOD 2025: 200 square feet; Zero degrees F or colder; calories cheap and easy
    https://permies.com/wiki/270034/GAMCOD-square-feet-degrees-colder
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