naming things

I don't like the metric system.

I like how there are 365.2425 days in a year and there is nothing the metric system can do to change that. I hope we never end up with a metric clock.

I like how harry potter money is 29 Knuts in a Sickle and 17 Sickles in a Galleon.

I suppose a piece of land could be broken up into a grid of numbers. That seems kinda metric. I prefer the idea that interesting points have interesting names.

Some people get a cat and name it "blacky" because it is black. I had a cat named "Walter Cronkite" - I wanted him to have a good name so it wouldn't be weird during job interviews. And when Walter became an adult, every day at 6pm he came into the house, meowed over and over for a full minute and then went and took a nap in my sock drawer.



We are starting to name things out of necessity. And the names are weak. "blacky"-esque.

I like the idea of rich names. What if we had 50 names all over the laboratory. And each name had a sign and the person behind the name was a permie or kin to one of our peeps? Maybe some of the signs had a bit more info about a name or a person. Culture. Depth. Grit. Texture. Substance.

I talked to Tim and Jocelyn about signs. We are going to get a black locust tree and make planks with our sawmill. Then use one of Tim's plunge routers to put the name into the sign. Burn the name in with a torch and then run it through Tim's planer to get a strong black name on the wood. Then mount it on one or two black locust posts. Jocelyn says she can put the lettering on the sign and Tim thinks he can follow that lettering reasonably well. We don't have any black locust growing here yet, but we know of at least one person willing to sell a tree and our sawmill is running (sorta).

When I did the rocket mass heater DVD set, there were lots of people that paid to see their name on it. Some paid more to see their name more prominently. When I watch the credits go by, I think about all these people .... MY people ... the people of MY community .... that makes those videos something far richer (to me) than a video of a workshop. I get a powerful sense of "we" .... WE are making a better world .... WE are getting this stuff done ....

At the same time, a lot of our projects are on hold until we get more tools/supplies. And this naming things idea is something I really want to see happen. So two birds with one stone.

=========================

Let's get started. I think most of the names will be the names of our peeps - those that feel passionate about what we are doing. And I think sometimes the name will be of a loved one - a memorial of sorts. And there might even be something that is rooted deeply in nothing more than creativity. In all cases, all names must be within my comfort zone.

I suspect that within the next two weeks we will come up with 100 different things to name. But to get this show on the road, here are the biggest points off of the top of my head:

basecamp:

mountain
upper meadow
middle meadow
road
big rock
red cabin
house
auditorium/shop
office/garage
berm (not yet installed)
garden (not yet installed)

laboratory:

primary road on north edge
secondary road on west edge
tertiary road 1 through south-ish
tertiary road 2 on east edge
the creek that does not yet exist
ponds that don't yet exist
primary gate
gate at northwest corner
gate at southern part of west edge
the little gulch on the east
huge cliffs to the north
pooper
first wofati
flatbed golf cart
polaris EV
trac hoe
dump truck
power cart

As for price - part of the idea of doing this is to come up with funds for current projects. At the same time, making the sign will have some expense of its own. At this time I don't want to name anything for less than a thousand bucks. So that would be the low end. I think naming the mountain at base camp or the creek would be our current top dollar items and right now I think $5000 would work.

For those of you that are serious about this, please send me an email and spell out what you would like to name, the name, and the amount you have in mind. My email is paul at richsoil dot com.

And now the question is: what are some other things that need naming?

deleted... I failed the IQ test of reading the whole post...

Paul..for those of us that are cash poor..is there maybe away you can set up a paypal subscription of x amount a month so if we want to donate $5000 we can do it at $100 monthly increments? That gives you monthly cash flow and allows more of us POOR yet dedicated people to participate in the naming..

How much to have our name on your forehead during your next video?

There is also this naming convention..

This is a great fundraiser Paul......It gets the money flowing....Seems an incredible amount of $ to give for a name-plate - especially for a family Mom like me who's hoping to set up permaculture on her own w/o any funds.....
Are you just hoping to "fleece" the rich???
I expect your funds will come in, and you'll be able to do some amazing and wonderful things....
But on the other hand, I was hoping I could see you develop the land as a "normal" person might do so, and I was hoping to see how these projects could workk sustainably for your average Joe from infancy......
I totally understand that you have access to some of the biggest / best names in permaculture, and that you are a total leader in the permaculture world and can push buttons / get money raised to complete projects "out of thin air" [by buying names etc........This is a great idea using other people's money, ....on the other hand, are we missing something here???
IS it possible to do permaculture without needing thousands and thousands of dollars???

Rebecca,

I take it you desperately need to name this "Mount Rebecca"?

I once had a fella say something like that - where I gave him something and he set up a paypal subscription thing to send me a certain amount of money every month. And then he "forgot" or some such. Whatever it was, the money stopped and I had to then talk to him about it. Ug.

I think I mentioned before that I very much like the idea of having a dozen people come live here for free and help out. I would even feed them and stuff. And after a year and a half I could even see myself setting the right somebody up with a deep-roots-patch-like-thing at no charge.

Julie,

For the family-mom who is low on dough: how about 150 videos and 260 podcasts? Plus tens of thousands of threads of info in interactive forums? I think when it comes to giving folks free stuff about permaculture, I'm #1.

At the same time, I have projects I want to move forward with. And the materials/tools cost some money, so I am trying to be creative in getting cash flow. In this case, I think it is a twofer - the land becomes far more interesting AND we get cash flow for projects.

As for doing permaculture on the cheap - yup, very easy to do. Do you have water at your house? A place to put poop? What are the costs of getting water and a place to put poop? You might be richer than you think!

A thought to consider when there are a bunch of folks coming and going and you need to communicate about what is needed or going on where: I use something that is descriptive (a landmark, a building , a direction, etc.) to name each of the 7 areas mostly fenced, of my ranch. Then I take a map of the area -either homemade of government (FSA) - and ID the areas, also put in gates, other important points to know about. And each person is given a map. Otherwise, without something like this, it is really hard to be on the same page or know what the other person is talking about. Fancy names are fine, and great for the mountains, creeks, etc. But ever try to find your way around a strange town with streets just with names, no numbers? Only the locals may know.

Just a thought to keep in back of your mind.

Gosh, great ideas here! Well, this could be post-climactic but I will mention it anyway

Since Montana is "Big Sky Country" I was thinking that names of some of the stars and/or constellations could be pretty cool for a particular section of Wheatontown - oh wait, is that an idea too?

paul wheaton wrote:Rebecca,

I think I mentioned before that I very much like the idea of having a dozen people come live here for free and help out. I would even feed them and stuff. And after a year and a half I could even see myself setting the right somebody up with a deep-roots-patch-like-thing at no charge.

OOOO so if I come to live..and help out..I get to name my mountain...? Mount Rebecca..has a weird ring..if said in the wrong crowd...

The city of Victoria charges $800 for little brass commemorative plates attached to benches. Choice viewpoints cost more. A large property could use lots of public seating. With this you're selling the view and not cutting into your inventory of bits of real estate. A good way to deal with the low end of the market. Pets and work animals need names too.

Once the real estate runs out it's time to name transient things like clouds, sunsets and wildlife. Photos would occupy a thread here. "This deer named Dale, took a drink from the new pond." We pay a modest fee to see our name in lights. Everyone sees the farm, visitors donate photos to the bank and the largest photo thread on permies.com is born.
Even perishable produce could be named. A giant squash or an unusually shaped potato could have their naming rights sold. With these cheaper names, we could agree that the purchaser could be bumped by a higher bid. I pay $5 to name the big pumpkin, John decides to mess with me and pay $7, Chuck leaves us all in the dust with a $10 bump. You've just made $22 on a pumpkin that stays at your place after the transaction.

Why stop at your 200 acres. Sell the view beyond and sell donated naming rights to property belonging to the rest of us.

Many of us have something that could be named. We could auction off the naming rights to one of my trails. Let's sell naming rights to many of my animals and fish. Some members have hundreds of acres, some have a balcony. All could auction off the naming rights to some portion of it. All of this loot would feed into your merchandising system but you'd never have to mail us anything. All could fit on a few threads that celebrate our generous donations. The leader board would be passe compared to this.I've taken many photos of wildlife. Surely ( yes, I called you Sherley) there is someone out there who would like to have a humming bird or an otter named after them. I'll donate naming rights to my entire album.

Then there's me - I'm willing to take one for the team and be named Nancy for one month. Anyone sending me a message or referring to any of my posts could call me Nancy. For an additional donation, you'd see me in a skirt holding a cardboard name tag. This could help me overcome my shyness.

Hyphenated names are often seen on buildings and roads. You could secure permission to include the names of Mr. Holzer, Mr. Lawton and others to be added to that of forum members. You could sell me the "Hodgins - Holzer" hugelkultur bed. I'd enjoy sharing the space with Sepp. Trees often have a little tag attached to the bark. Let's name each one. No stone unturned on this one. If your pond has big stones, name them.

That cat in the picture looks like "Marmalade", a cat I had years ago.
Neighbor across the creek had a male with the same coloring.
His name was "Sam", but I always called him "Play it Again Sam", as (obviously) he was Marmalade's lover.
She used to churn out 3 litters per year...all orange. Those 2 started a neighborhood breed of their own.

BEYOND NAMING --- How many of you thought I was done ? ---- Some people may not wish to add their names to things. But just about everybody has a few favorite quotes. This is evident when looking at member signatures, I've seen John Muir, Gandhi, The Dali Lama and many others quoted. There's one by Einstein that I often think of while I'm looking at the alternative energy section --- " If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't understand it yourself " That rascal Einstein. He could get me deleted again.

I've been to many community centers where there is a wall adorned with the names of hundreds of donors. It's an ultra boring read. But suppose that instead, the donor pays to enshrine their favorite quote on the side of the barn. You would obviously want to make sure that the values expressed in the quote mesh with your own. I think the inside of barns and sheds would make the most suitable place for the bulk of this material and only a few should adorn the outside of buildings. Otherwise it begins to look like graffiti.

This is another revenue stream that doesn't cut into the others.

In another thread, someone asked about naming things.

Chad Sentman wrote:How or where do we bid on naming the creek? Is there any other criteria than just being the highest bidder? Do I have to have my suggestion approved in any way?

So here are the bits pulled out of Paul's original post to answer this:

paul wheaton wrote:In all cases, all names must be within my comfort zone.

paul wheaton wrote:As for price - part of the idea of doing this is to come up with funds for current projects. At the same time, making the sign will have some expense of its own. At this time I don't want to name anything for less than a thousand bucks. So that would be the low end. I think naming the mountain at base camp or the creek would be our current top dollar items and right now I think $5000 would work.

Though reading Paul's full original post puts it all in a much better context.

Yeah, I thought I had the clever idea to start a bidding war. I was going to choose some intentionally obnoxious name like "Mount Monsanto" in hopes that people would band together and try to stop me. But then I saw that Paul has to approve the name anyway, so that's out. Oh well, I guess I'll have to find another outlet for my well-intentioned mischief!

Well-intended mischief and good humor are excellent things! I hope you do find another avenue for that!

You're Going To Need Some Mascots ---- Everywhere that is even a little bit touristy, can profit from a mascot. Legendary tales about creatures of the forest, swamp, and sky could be used to keep kids engaged in learning. Kids like dinosaurs, swamp creatures and invisible ravens. Give them some and charge their parents for naming rights.

I understand that ponds are being dug. No self respecting body of water wants to exist without a famous resident. Loch Ness has a monster, fishing lodges have 500 lb. catfish that evade even the best anglers, and in the Cadborough Bay district of Victoria we have the elusive "Cadborosaurus". There's a ferocement statue of him that kids climb on.

People could bid on the right to name these creatures and to assign them supernatural powers. These could include invisibility (very important), shape shifting, the ability to shrink to a fraction of their normal size (important for fish and giant birds) and lots of other fun stuff. We'd want to stay away from some powers usually reserved for religious deities. ( walking on water, healings, ...

I'll gladly come up with a pond monster, with a back story so blood curdling that those rotten kids will definitely leave the ponds alone.

We could commission Ludi to make a "life sized" effigy and put it on post cards. Then just sit back and watch the money pile up (:

In public parks, we often see signs at trail heads and at points of interest. With all of the unique things at your place, some signs might help not only with navigation, but with helping visitors understand what they are looking at.

Forum members could sponsor production of the signs and be discretely credited at the bottom. The framework could serve as a canvas for someone's favorite quote.

Today, Paul decided the mountain on base camp will be dubbed: the hollowed out volcano with good submarine access.

("the" or "Paul's" not so sure about yet...)

Hey Paul,

I live in Europe and I don't like the metric system either. There is something unnatural about it. My friends over here bitch that the standard system makes no sense. But this is only because it is not base ten. Did they ever think that we used these other systems because they were better to do math in your head with? Take away the calculators and people will revert to fractions. When I show people over here how it works with wood working, they are thinking of learning the standard system (at least for cutting up the planks). As for your empire, I will contribute as funds become available. I hope to create my own empire over here too, In ACRES! HA!

I like the volcano name, but I would really like to see a submarine in there.

Hollow mountain with good submarine acces-road sounds like a propper name for the road leading to (or from) this mountain.

Can we also bid for the naming of pleagues? like monsanto-like-disease for a specific kind of failure to thrive in garden plants?

Dale, I hope your monster will be green.

the hollowed out volcano with good submarine access.

Now _there_ is a forthright goad to get some names flowing! What do you think fear Paul's going to slap a name on next? <g>


Rufus

Jocelyn Campbell wrote:Today, Paul decided the mountain on base camp will be dubbed: the hollowed out volcano with good submarine access.

("the" or "Paul's" not so sure about yet...)

We have threads for this now!

hollowed out volcano with good submarine access
caldera

Here's the caldera in May of 2015 (from a couple of pics) before all the recent seeding and planting (love me some arrowleaf balsamroot!):




Plus, in just shy of three years, loads of names have evolved around the place. I'm going to attempt to explain a few as I'm able.

How the dances with pigs meadow got its name.

When Paul first bought the lab property in 2013, even before he had closed on base camp, he purchased a tipi to put on the lab. He was already thinking it made sense to have a place for people to stay, however simple that might be.

The tipi was purchased off of craigslist, and might still have had some of the original labels or packaging. Its owner had bought it brand new, but had never set it up. Two of the first volunteers and all-around awesome guys, Jesse Biggs and Ryan Barrett set up the tipi where Paul requested: in one of the more picturesque spots on the lab, the southern edge of the meadow.


Paul's pic of Ryan and Jesse from this post.

Shortly after that, a guy named Charlie helped out here quite a bit. Charlie was a movie buff, and had a brother or connection to the movie industry. He knew all kinds of trivia about the movies and how they were made. Somehow, Charlie found out (or thought) that our new tipi manufacturer was one and the same outfit that made the tipis for the Dance With Wolves movie.


Here's Charlie in the front seat of the dukemobile with Paul, with Bob ("Bob Bob") Algiers in the back "falling" off.

At that time, Paul's brother Tim kept cows and pigs in paddocks around the lab. The animals kept escaping, especially the pigs. All the critters loved the meadow the best, so they would typically go there when they got out. So Charlie dubbed it dances with pigs meadow.


Paul's early pic of the tipi from here.


A second tipi was added in this additional pic by Paul here.

We all thought that was a perfect name!

Sidebar note: for those new to permaculture it might help to mention that pigs are often considered one of the better or more common permaculture system animals.

Some of you might have noticed we refer to "Ranger Doug" a lot here at wheaton labs. Here's what Paul wrote in an ant village post a while back:  

paul wheaton wrote:When we were doing things "the old way" we were thinking of getting "another ranger doug" and calling it "ranger woody".  

The thing is that we were ending up with all sorts of things that claimed to be a "ranger" so we needed a way to differentiate.

The blue Polaris UTV here is also a "Ranger" which is one of the confusing factors.

Ranger Doug is a 1991 Ford Ranger pickup, 4-cylinder, rear wheel drive, with an awesome, custom-welded rack in the truck bed. Incredibly affordable in many ways.

And now I ran across this story about a real-life, 90-year-old Ranger Doug here in Montana:  'Ranger Doug' finishes 55th season at Glacier



That photo caption reads:

Doug Follett has his portrait taken with a truck he bought to use as a snow plow back in 1959 for $250. Follett said the only reason they sold it to him was they expected it to rust out. He smiles as he says every year the truck seems to say to him, "I'm still ready to go, how about you?"

I just love this photo and story of this real life Ranger Doug, so I had to post it here.

One of our parking lots is called the turtle lot....

Here's a picture from our signs thread:


And...it is full of tortoises! Not just on the sign! Which has been a bit of a bone to pick with me, though I've been light-hearted about it because I think most people don't/won't care.

So Paul sent me this:

source

Haha! Glad I'm not the only one!

Jocelyn Campbell wrote:Some of you might have noticed we refer to "Ranger Doug" a lot here at wheaton labs. Ranger Doug is a 1991 Ford Ranger pickup, 4-cylinder, rear wheel drive, with an awesome, custom-welded rack in the truck bed. Incredibly affordable in many ways.

Ranger Doug is a lot like this in many ways (though we did have to put a locking gas cap on it to prevent the gas from being stolen):


(source)

11. The battery is dead
12. The tires are flat

Nah.  11.  The battery has been removed to storage.  
13.  You won't get far until you remove the cordwood "parking brakes" from in front of the wheels.
14.  Third gear is non-functional, and guess what's the best gear for the local roads?
15.  The mean-looking border collie is sitting on the toolbox that contains the wrench you need to turn on the headlights, for your midnight dash.

Haha! You guys certainly know your farm/homestead trucks!

#16.  Even meaner than the Border Collie is the rat living under the steering column if you try to hot-wire the vehicle....

@Paul W.: "Some people get a cat and name it "blacky" because it is black......I like how there are 365.2425 days in a year and there is nothing the metric system can do to change that....."

With spring in the air, on the naming of things:

"He remembered it had been spring then, which is a wonderful time in Montana, and the breeze blowing down from the pine trees carried a fresh smell of melting snow and thawing earth, and they were all walking down the road, four abreast, when one of those raggedy non-descript dogs that call Indian reservations home came onto the road and walked pleasantly in front of them. They followed the dog silently for a while. Then LaVeme asked John, 'What kind of dog is that?" John thought about it and said, "That's a good dog." LaVerne looked curiously at him for a moment and then looked down at the road. Then the corners of her eyes crinkled and as they walked on Phaedrus noticed she was sort of smiling and chuckling to herself. Later, when John had left, she asked Dusenberry, "What did he mean when he said, 'That's a good dog.' Was that just 'Indian talk'?" Dusenberry thought for a while and said he supposed it was. Phaedrus didn't have any answer either, but for some reason he had been as amused and puzzled as LaVerne was. ....

For some time now he'd been thinking that if he were looking for proof that "substance" is a cultural heritage from Ancient Greece rather than an absolute reality, he should simply look at non-Greek-derived cultures. If the "reality" of substance was missing from those cultures that would prove he was right. Now the image of the raggedy Indian dog was back, and he realized what it meant.  LaVerne had been asking the question within an Aristotelian framework. She wanted to know what genetic, substantive pigeonhole of canine classification this object walking before them could be placed in. But John Wooden Leg never understood the question. That's what made it so funny. He wasn't joking when he said, "That's a good dog." He probably thought she was worried the dog might bite her. The whole idea of a dog as a member of a hierarchical structure of intellectual categories known generically as "objects" was outside his traditional cultural viewpoint. What was significant, Phaedrus realized, was that John had distinguished the dog according to its Quality, rather than according to its substance....."
-- Robert Pirsig "Lila: An Inquiry into Morals"