Love is the only resource that grows the more you use it.
David Brower
Joy and abundance, Cory "Cimarron" Layne - Building a Permaculture community on 30 acres in SW Virginia Appalachian Foothills. Still looking for liberty-loving, resilient people ready for a challenge. PM me with your email address for more info.
Cimarron Layne wrote:My recommendations:
1. Don't wait to get to your homestead. The sooner you get there and start working on your infrastructure and building self-reliance the better. Get your food self-sufficiency, water and heating set up so you don't have to worry about shortages and economic upheaval which we all know is not just coming, but is already here.
2. You need to get your fiancee onboard. If the dog is so sick it can't be moved, it is probably going to die. Prolonging that date won't help your dog and is costing you valuable time and money that can be better invested in your homestead. Have the dog euthanized, take the body to a taxidermist if you want it preserved, and do your mourning on the way to America and your homestead. Get a puppy when you get here and get on with life. I don't mean to sound cruel, but weighing all factors, it solves several of your current problems. Moving to a smaller house is just a delaying tactic. Strategically, it will set you back.
“The most important decision we make is whether we believe we live in a friendly or hostile universe.”― Albert Einstein
I'm only 65! That's not to old to learn to be a permie, right?
I copied this post, and all of the ensuing conversation about it to a new thread https://permies.com/t/190818/Composter-heating
Check there for more discussion on the topic!!
Kelly Craig wrote:About twenty years ago, I rented a poorly insulated house. My monthly electric and gas bills were three to five hundred a month. It didn't take long to realize it might pay insulate someone else's for profit rental on my dime. I did. Two hundred bought a lot of blow in insulation and the use of the machine was free with the blow in.
Blazing trails in disabled homesteading
jack vegas wrote:What about putting together a "Biomeiler" or compost heater? These can be built relatively inexpensively and quickly and will produce useful heat for several months. Just about any organic material can be used including wood chips, tree leaves, manure, tree trimmings, and yard waste. Unlike burning wood products, the fuel doesn't need to be dry. In fact, it needs to be wet! Also, relative to combustion devices, there is much less or even zero concern about permitting, insurance, certifications, and environmental regulation. I suspect usable fire wood might be in short supply as everyone looks to it as an alternative fuel. Far fewer people will be competing for organic waste products. Even if you can't produce all the heat you need it might significantly reduce the amount of additional heat needed from conventional sources.
Blazing trails in disabled homesteading
Iterations are fine, we don't have to be perfect
My 2nd Location:Florida HardinessZone:10 AHS:10 GDD:8500 Rainfall:2in/mth winter, 8in/mth summer, Soil:Sand pH8 Flat
jack vegas wrote:Several years ago I built a very small indoor "pile" in a 55 gallon steel drum. It had a small computer fan to circulate fresh air and the exhaust was dumped through the kitchen ceiling fan vent. An automotive electric window motor was used to rotate the drum periodically to keep all material inside uniformly damp and break up any clumps. All this was enclosed in a box made of 2" foam insulation that allowed heat to build as the bacteria did its work. The heat produced soaked through the steel drum and heated the air inside the box. Once the temperature inside the box exceeded 130 deg-F a fan pulled air through the box and dumped the heated air into the room. If the box exhaust temperature dropped below 120 deg-F, the fan cut off. I kept it running continuously by feeding organic material daily. It actually worked relatively well and kept the house temperature between 55-60 deg-F. During the day I augment with electric heat.
jack vegas wrote:A more powerful "pile" that I'm considering building this winter would be contained in an insulated box 4 ft x 4 ft x 8 ft long that will sit in my backyard. No mechanical devices this time, just an insulted box filled with organic material. It will have two rods running through it with paddles welded along their length that I can hand crank periodically to stir the contents. This will be a closed box, painted to match my house and I doubt if anyone will notice or complain. Local regulation allow an un-permitted shed up to 120 sqft so I don't think this will break any codes and certainly no HOA regs (we have a few but sheds and even compost piles are allowed). I really think this is an approach that could work for just about any suburban house without raising many eyebrows. I'm hoping it will produce enough heat over 4 months to keep the house interior above 60 deg-F. If it does, sun on the house should raise daytime temperatures well above 65 deg-F.
jack vegas wrote:As might be noted, I'm not a fan of the Jean-Pain-style "pile."
Douglas Alpenstock wrote:This would make a great stand-alone thread though.
Blazing trails in disabled homesteading
Matthew Nistico wrote:
jack vegas wrote:First, my frame of reference - I live on a remote part of the Washington coast in a poorly insulated 750 sqft cottage on 1/4 acres in a small community of maybe 30 other houses. Outside city limits but within county jurisdiction where building and health codes are enforced. Winter temperatures are generally between 20 and 40 deg-F. Certainly not as cold as Germany (spent 3 wonderful years there when I was a kid) but cold enough.
I'm imagining several of these set up and running at once, one in each room perhaps, and I'll bet you'd need no other heat source in any decently-insulated, weather-proofed home. The only downside is the amount of square footage sacrificed. There is also some minimal daily maintenance (feeding more organic matter to the digester), though that would certainly be equal or less than the time needed to tend a woodstove.
Blazing trails in disabled homesteading
Kelly Finigan wrote:Sorry if somebody else has provided this advice but here goes. At this point of basic survival against a coke European winter I would suggest not bothering with ideal permaculture or expensive and time consuming approaches (although these would be good for the long term).
Hopefully you can these in Germany but here we have catalytic heaters that run on propane. They turn propane into heat by chemistry not by combustion. Combustion on your house will make carbon monoxide and kill you. Catalytic heaters will give heat and create some water vapour. The chemical reaction also uses up some oxygen so you will want to crack a window in the house. Remember though that air is 21%oxygen so there is quite a bit of that available.
If you can get the catalytic heater and a few large propane tanks this may be your best heat this winter. The heater should be about $200 Canadian. Also don’t forget simple plug in electric space heaters. Wear long johns and undershorts, thick socks and a sweater. Consider wearing a toque undies and gloves. Seal the windows with plastic film to give an extra air barrier. If it gets really cold huddle together.
Take care and best of luck this winter.
If you can get the catalytic heater and a few large propane tanks this may be your best heat this winter.
Love is the only resource that grows the more you use it.
David Brower
Matthew Nistico wrote:Still, I can imagine no social value from sitting around watching the compost digest.
Douglas Alpenstock wrote:
Matthew Nistico wrote:Still, I can imagine no social value from sitting around watching the compost digest.
Hahaha!![]()
“The most important decision we make is whether we believe we live in a friendly or hostile universe.”― Albert Einstein
John Weiland wrote:
Douglas Alpenstock wrote:
Matthew Nistico wrote:Still, I can imagine no social value from sitting around watching the compost digest.
Hahaha!![]()
On the other hand, if Dr. Doolittle could 'talk to the animals', perhaps this would be that golden opportunity to learn how to 'converse with the microbes'!![]()
Olga Booker wrote:
If you can get the catalytic heater and a few large propane tanks this may be your best heat this winter.
The problem is gas. Russia is cutting off the gas supply to most of western Europe. Even if you can get some, the price will be prohibitive. Electricity prices are soaring too. I guess that is why the OP is worried about heating for this coming winter and looking for an alternative.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/sep/04/gas-prices-rise-russia-shuts-nord-stream-1-indefinitely
Abraham Palma wrote:
Sorry, cathalytic heaters are not much different than any other butane/propane heaters. They work by combustion too (fuel+oxygen=water+heat), but you don't get to see the flame since it's distributed among the cathalytic panel at a lower temperature. They produce as much monoxide as any other clean gas heater. Gas heaters are allowed to be used indoors without ventilation for devices of less than 4 kW. Therefore, for more than one heater, ventilation is required (min. 125cm2). All modern heaters feature a safety device that will stop the gas when oxygen is running low (the test flame can't keep the temperature in that case).
As with any other combustion heater, there's a risk of burning when placing things over or too close to the heater. They also produce water steam, which can be an issue in an unventilated room. Some people have a hard time breathing when humidity raises and oxygen lowers, and suffer head bumps.
It's a very common heating device in my country, but note that butane/propane supply depends on oil consumption: the more petrol derivates (fuel oil, gasoline, tars, kerosene, parafine, sfsf) are consumed, the more butane/propane is produced. So, if oil is running low, so will do propane. Maybe it is not an issue for this winter, but it could be for the followings. Good thing is that even if you are cut from the electric grid, it will still work as long as there's gas left in the bottle.
Abraham Palma wrote:I did my maths long ago. Every butane tank (12,5 kg) has 130 kWh per unit. Gas heaters have between 3 and 4.5 kW. Catalytic units are usually 3 kW (remember that you need to vent in a while, so it's a little less efficient than electric heaters). If you keep it working night and day, it drinks one tank every 43 hours. In our mild winters, 5 hours (15 kWh) a day is enough for most appartments, meaning one tank lasts for 8 days. Yeah, I supose someone can store 12 tank units in his home and not depend on the supply for that winter, or what most butane heater users do, have 2 to 3 tanks and have a refill every week (supposing butane supply still works).
For more extreme wheater, I would need to know how much heating power is required per day. If say, that house needs 30 kWh per day, then it's a refill every 4 days, not so practical, and more dependent on a steady supply.
For big houses it's better to install a big propane tank (1000+ kg) with airtight propane heaters. They fill the tank with a truck and you have gas for the whole winter, but that's expensive.
Kelly Finigan wrote:
Abraham Palma wrote:
. . . .
For context, the OP (and much of Germany it appears) has a special problem this winter: freeze, go bankrupt or try to find some lovable middle road. Conservation has to be first. Lower temperature inside, wear extra clothes, heat only spaces (parts of buildings). Using space heaters can be key to this (wood if existing infrastructure is in place: it is not for the OP, electric heaters and my suggestion of propane). ...
cayenne in his socks
Love is the only resource that grows the more you use it.
David Brower
Kelly Craig wrote:A friend mentioned he put a teaspoon of the Safeway cayenne in his socks when he went out skiing. We concluded the stuff I had, which was about 180,000 BTU, vs the Safeway stuff, at about 40,000 BTU, was way to much.
Blazing trails in disabled homesteading
roses are red, violets are blue. Some poems rhyme and some are a tiny ad:
Preserving Fruits and Vegetable Guide by Lynn Gillespie (ebook)
https://permies.com/wiki/219058/Preserving-Fruits-Vegetable-Guide-Lynn
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