Help! My mac and cheese tastes like raw flour

For those not going from scratch here is another favorite answer.  Be sure to mix the powder with hot or warm butter/oil before adding any milk as it doesn't emulsify well in milk and makes lumps that are hard to get rid of.  But if mixed with the melted butter first and then the milk it creams out nicely.  Another nice addition is no artificial colors.powdered cheese

Evaporated milk is the first secret! Second is cornstarch instead of flour. See the recipe and explanation here: https://www.seriouseats.com/the-food-labs-ultra-gooey-stovetop-mac-cheese

Wow!  What a plethora of great ideas.  I am somewhat lucky that my adult child is a purist.  She likes very basic mac and cheese.  I made some tonight and she could not eat it fast enough (we sometimes have to rein her in to prevent choking.

I throw some pasta into a pot of boiling water - no measure, just eye it in for about 3 qts water.  Let that cook while I pull out a brick of hard sharp or extra-sharp cheddar.  Hand shred cheese onto a thin paper plate.  Get some butter out of the fridge and get a couple of tablespoons' worth warming up.  

Pasta is done, just past andante stage and then drained.  Once drained, back in pot, dot butter pats around top of pasta then some shredded cheese, mix till incorporated and continue until at least a full pound of shredded sharp or x-sharp cheddar has been mixed in and melted.  Add salt and pepper and set on table to serve.  Simple, no issues with daughter and heats up great the next day to eat left overs for lunch.  Reheating is the only time I look to add milk and then only a splash.

Simple, quick and tasty.  No angst.

I don't know if anyone here would be interested in this, but here is a link to a recipe I've been using a lot lately for a vegan mac and cheese.  I think most people would find it quite delicious whether you are vegan or not.  

Here are the basic ingredients:

12 oz pasta (gf if needed)
▢1 cup raw cashews soaked in water for at least 1-2 hours or in boiling water for 10 minutes (see notes)
▢½ cup water (more if needed)
▢3 tablespoon lemon juice
▢3 tablespoon coconut cream (see notes)
▢2 tablespoon white miso paste (or 1 Tb salt but trust me the miso makes it fab)
▢2 tablespoon diced pimentos
▢1 teaspoon garlic powder
▢2 teaspoon onion powder
▢4-6 tablespoon nutritional yeast
▢1 teaspoon dijon mustard

I use this recipe mostly as a guide to get general measurements and ingredients.  I've never used the pimentos since that's not something I ever have on hand.  I only use the coconut cream if I've just opened a can for another dish, or plan to use the rest of the can within a day or so.  (That does mean that Thai curry night often follows mac and cheese night!)  I've got a Vita mix blender so I don't need to soak the cashews which is nice.  Due to my blender I also tend to not juice the lemon but rather toss it in mostly whole.  I've found it helps to trim off some of the rind so the lemon flavor isn't so potent, but I like using the whole lemon to get all the nutrition and the blender obliterates the seeds, rind, and pulp from a texture standpoint in the cheese sauce.

For a quicker mac n cheese, I do something similar to Chris Kroeker, except I don't use Velveeta. I use mainly sharp cheddar, with gouda, parmesan, havarti or Monterrey Jack added in sometimes. I add butter and milk to make it creamy.

But if time is not an issue, the absolute best is baking it like my husband's grandmother did. Easter dinner was not complete without her baked mac and cheese. I don't have an actual recipe with amounts, but here is an approximation:

Cook macaroni to al dente and drain. Starting with macaroni, layer it with 3 - 4 thin pats of butter, a generous sprinkle of flour (1 -1 1/2 TB depending on size of baking dish), a sprinkle of salt, pepper and garlic powder (opt) and a very GENEROUS layer of thin to medium slices of cheese. You can shred or grate the cheese, but it's not necessary. Then pour milk on to almost cover it all. Bake at 350 for about an hour. You can cut the time a bit by pouring on heated milk instead of cold.

I usually do 3 layers, ending with cheese, but the bulk of cheese goes in the middle with less on top. For holiday diners with several people, I use a 3 quart Pyrex bowl for about 1 to 1 1/4 pounds of macaroni and about 3/4 to 1 pound of sharp or extra sharp cheddar. If I add any other cheeses, I may use about 1/8 to 1/4 pound of them total, because we prefer the cheddar. The 3 qt takes more than an hour to bake if the milk isn't heated first. Maybe an hour and a quarter? Of course, starting with a smaller amount would be best. No sense wasting a lot of food if it isn't liked.

I'm sorry this is so vague. I checked allrecipes.com to find a similar recipe, but they mostly made the cheese sauce in a pan, then poured it on the macaroni and baked it. It truly is not necessary to make a sauce separately. The finished product is not as smooth, but it sure is tasty!

I haven’t eaten much pasta in the last dozen years, because of the phytic acid in the grain.

Reading about mac and cheese over and over has developed my appetite, just like the potato salad thread late last fall.

As I read the detailed recipes and methods I always think I would add onions in some form and guess I will have to make some sour dough noodles, or sprout some wheat, then dry it then grind it to flour so I can make some.

I’ll probably include mushrooms too.

Great thread!

Thekla McDaniels wrote:I haven’t eaten much pasta in the last dozen years, because of the phytic acid in the grain.

I don't know if your issues would still apply, but thought I'd share that my girlfriend avoids gluten and thus looks for gluten free pastas.  One we use a lot is a brown rice/quinoi pasta.  Personally I find it just as good if not better than traditional pasta.

For those who use cornstarch for the sauce,  how does it hold up to freezing and reheating?

Your process is correct hmmm

I work as a chef and made a few variations depending on whats to hand etc at the time over the years, but tend to use the same method as you are... making a basic white mother sauce.

I have used a few different types of flour over the years doesnt tend to make alot of difference taste wise I would say.

The main thing I can think might have happened if over cooking the roux to high or too long?

Try a low heat for the roux and as soon as the mix has combined slowly add the milk.

Taste wise the main thing is the cheese and as much pepper as you can handle obviously, a white sauce is tasteless on its own

Its the cheese that makes or breaks a sauce

I got sent back to an old hotel to train some chefs to make cheese sauce a few years ago as there where complaints since I left which was odd as the chefs knew what they where doing.....turns out the boss had changed the cheese they where buying to a cheaper one with basically no taste, it was like plastic bleh.

And sometimes we do end up with cheese that is bleh. I was just thinking about the miso and the brewers yeast that were used for flavor in the vegan version described earlier in this thread.

I was thinking when you get bleh cheese, add some of those flavor ingredients!

Personally, when I make something with absolutely no flavor, I either put salsa on it, or chutney.

Ooo!  Chutney would be very good on macaroni and cheese.

Having never frozen my macaroni cheese, I have no idea how the cornflour/starch sauce would stand up to it.
My next mac and cheese meal will be using Rosemary Michael's recipe as it sounds wonderful.

Rasili O'Connor wrote:I add mustard (e.g. French mustard) and horseradish to the sauce. Gives it that tangy (flavoursome) taste.

1000%!
Always a little mustard, even for the mustard-haters. It's like fish sauce: essential for the dishes it enhances, and as long as nobody has an actual food sensitivity, just do it & don't tell them. I've had too many bland mac and cheeses because I left out the mustard, and too many bland Thai dishes from leaving out the fish sauce.

Hi Paul,

Welcome to Permies.

David Huang wrote:

Thekla McDaniels wrote:I haven’t eaten much pasta in the last dozen years, because of the phytic acid in the grain.

I don't know if your issues would still apply, but thought I'd share that my girlfriend avoids gluten and thus looks for gluten free pastas.  One we use a lot is a brown rice/quinoi pasta.  Personally I find it just as good if not better than traditional pasta.

Piling on here - we had to switch from supermarket brands like Ronzoni GF because of the weird taste to an Italian brand named Rummo - luckily it isn't expensive, but we can only get it at one of the stores in the area. If you can find it, it makes any GF pasta dish taste a lot better, and it doesn't shed quite as much starch into the cooking water.

Tina Nixon wrote:

David Huang wrote:

Thekla McDaniels wrote:I haven’t eaten much pasta in the last dozen years, because of the phytic acid in the grain.

I don't know if your issues would still apply, but thought I'd share that my girlfriend avoids gluten and thus looks for gluten free pastas.  One we use a lot is a brown rice/quinoi pasta.  Personally I find it just as good if not better than traditional pasta.

Piling on here - we had to switch from supermarket brands like Ronzoni GF because of the weird taste to an Italian brand named Rummo - luckily it isn't expensive, but we can only get it at one of the stores in the area. If you can find it, it makes any GF pasta dish taste a lot better, and it doesn't shed quite as much starch into the cooking water.

Sorry, off topic for a moment:

Thanks for the suggestions, gluten isn’t a problem for me that I know of, phytic acid is an anti nutrient present in most grains, nuts and seeds, it interferes with mineral (calcium and phosphorus ) metabolism, contributing to bone and tooth demineralization… osteoporosis and “cavities”.  

The phytic acid can be transformed by soaking and or sprouting and or fermenting, depending on which grain or nut or seed.

The idea of making a bechamel/cream sauce first and then adding the shredded cheese to it hot, is traditional; but it is not the only way to go. A floury taste comes from not cooking the roux long enough; your flour is going into the mixture raw.  

The traditional way can seem laborious: cooking the clarified butter with the flour, slowly, to open up porosity in the flour granules, which will later be filled with the hot liquid and expand further, causing the desired thickening.   (or oil or meat fat, but not whole butter, as it has liquid in it and also casein which can compound the sticking-to-the- pan problem).  

Many people make roux in the oven, as this can be done in bigger volume, and requires less stirring as well.  But it's not the only option.  You can use only flour, plus your liquid (melt the butter into the milk before you begin, if you like, along with grated onion and etc.)  Then all you do is boil the milk (use high heat!) and then add in your slurry, of cold milk/cream/water and flour, pouring through a strainer if you are picky about lumps which will disappear in the general yumminess) and whisk, whisk, whisk all on high heat; it will come back to the boil quickly.  Then lower the heat a bit so it won't boil over and just whisk and cook a little longer, until it looks right.  It will not be floury.  And of course, you could just go to a starch for the slurry, instead of the flour.  Any of those would work well.

Traditionally, a nice shot of prepared mustard makes anything cheesy, even more so.  I like Maille a lot; the super-concentrated flavor makes it worth the price, just a half teaspoonful or so will elevate the humble mac n cheese to Heavenly status  I also like to spread it thinly onto raw catfish, or any potentially smelly fish, before breading or battering to fry.  Adds a subtle layer of deliciousness and cuts any "off" taste from those little bottom feeders.  

Thanks for the vegan recipe, David!  It looks great!!

I have fond memories of my Dad's mac n cheese: we always grew a lot of maters and canned them whole in quarts.  When Dad made mac n cheese, it had to be his way: he'd finely dice up about a half pound of salt pork and fry it, straining out the browned bits.  Those bits, plus a goodly bit of chopped onion browned in the aforesaid fat, would be added to the cooked mac along with a jar of hand-squished, drained tomatoes and as much cheese as possible; the whole was topped with buttered crumbs, and the pan buttered and crumbed ahead of filling as well.  The result was incredible; so very moreish.  Just had to give it a mention!

Being single, I'm responsible for all the cooking and cleaning as well as all the homestead chores.  By the time I finish feeding and locking up the livestock for the night, I often don't feel like spending an hour or more fixing supper, so about once a week I resort to a quick Missionary Mac & Cheese with Tuna & Peas.  This simple dish is a one pot meal with stuff I always have in my larder:  2 boxes of generic mac & cheese, 2 cans of light tuna fish in spring water (drained), and 2 cans of sweet peas (drained).  Note:  I normally drink the tuna and pea waters while the macaroni is cooking, because I like them and figure a lot of the nutrients leach out of the food into the water, and I don't want to waste it.

I just toss the macaroni into a pot of boiling water and when done to my al dente satisfaction, I drain most of the water, toss in a few pats of butter, the cheese powder, and a splash of milk; stir up until the cheese dissolves, adding a little more milk if it's too dry, toss the tuna into the mix and stir around to disperse, add the peas and blend in lifting the mac from the bottom and allowing the peas to drop down until all ingredients are well mixed.  If it is still warm enough, I eat it right out of the pot with a soup spoon.  If it has cooled down too much, I spoon about a third into a wide soup bowl and microwave for a minute or two.  Two boxes and cans usually make 3 meals for me if my dog doesn't beg too much of it, two meals if I share it with him.  I usually add a little milk after the rest sits in the fridge for a day or two.

When finished there's only one pot, one spoon, and one bowl to wash.  I reuse the tuna cans to hold small parts, drill bits, or what-have-you in my shop, and the pea cans become scoops for potting soil or small animal feed or for small amounts of paint or stain or cleaning brushes for various projects.  The boxes and paper cheese packets are used to light fires.  Zero waste.

I'll add cheese sauce (medium white sauce) recipe that always worked for me:

1 1/2  cups milk
3 Tbs butter
3 Tbs regular flour
2 cups shredded old cheddar cheese

Pour  1 1/2 cup  milk  into a pot,
add 3 Tbs butter
turn the burner on medium heat,
leave on until butter has melted

While the above is heating:

in a separate cup (bowls are too wide)
pour 1/2 cup milk
add 3 Tbs regular flour
Mix above really well (no clumps)

Once the butter melted, add milk/flour mixture into a pot stirring with a whisk brining it to simmer.
Continue stirring for 3 minutes  while the mixture is simmering.
(3 minutes are needed to get rid of floured taste and the sauce will stay white in color)

While simmering (after 3 minutes) add shredded cheese.
Stir until cheese has melted and the sauce is  ready to pour over macaroni.
I don't add any salt/pepper to the sauce, as those can be added after to whomever likes it and as much as they like.

P.S. When I make this, I'll mix sauce and boiled elbow macaroni together, then transfer the mixture into oven proof dish, sprinkle the top with finely crushed unsalted soda crackers,  then some more of shredded cheese and bake uncovered at 350F for 20-30 minutes.

Cheese amount is optional. If you like less, reduce. If you like more, add more.

Bon appétit