Help! My mac and cheese tastes like raw flour

So I've been trying different recipes for homemade mac and cheese.  I'm really bad at it.  Where am I going wrong?

For the sauce, it generally goes like this:

2 Tablespoons butter
melt that medium to high heat
add an equal amount of flour
stir on medium to high heat for a couple of minutes until really stiff.
slowly - like super slowly - add about half a litre of milk, stirring constantly
bring to a boil while stirring
take off heat
add cheese and spices.
pour on cooked pasta - serve or bake.
(takes me about 15 min from start to end)

Is there some secret step I'm missing to make it not taste like flour paste with cheese and milk?  

Do I need to measure the ingredients more closely?  

All the recipes I can find have me cooking the butter-flour for 2 min or until stiff.  Should it be longer?  Should it be less?  Should I pre toast the flour?

How do I make this taste good?

Instead of flour, I use cornflour (cornstarch) to make the cheese sauce. Simply heat milk and cornflour until sauce is thickened. (I can't give exact amounts as I don't usually measure properly.) Then add grated cheese and whatever other seasoning you use and pour over pasta. I've never had any complaints so far.

2 ways going wrong.  Using a thickener at all.  The cheese sauce should be pure cheese and milk without anything messing it up.   So the best answer is to use enough cheeses and milk and skip the thickener.

White sauce gravy mix type sauces are hard to do well.(basically what you are doing)   If you are going to do them get an little electric hand blender and work a lot of air into the sauce while it cooks and thickens.  It gives it a more creamy texture without changing ingredients.  Mixing it wetter would help some too.(don't make it to thick)  To get a smoother texture yet use partially corn starch thickeners and partially flour thickeners to make the sauce base.  The reason is over time while you cook the flour keeps absorbing moisture and getting that part thicker and dryer but the cornstarch breaks down a bit while baked and releases moisture and helps balance things out.  Remember you mac is going to absorb a bit of moisture too.  Which is why you start a bit wet.  Also cornstarch is a smoother sauce to begin with.

If I am doing this I start with the cornstarch base.  Take about a cup of milk and work the cornstarch part in with your fingers till there are no lumps.(sorry I don't measure cornstarch as I work by feel so I can't give exact numbers.)  dump all ingredients in the same pan or microwave bowl and blend with the blender at regular intervals while you cook.  Want to work as much air into the mix as you can with the hand blender.  Right near the end of cooking start mixing the cheese in and also blending try to get super smooth consistency with lots of air in it.  Be aware as it bakes it will dry out as the gluten in the flour absorbs moisture so being just a little to wet is a good thing at the start of baking.  If you get too wet the sauce runs to the bottom and of the top and makes the top noodles dry out.  If this seems to be happening part way thru the bake stir the baking dish.

i make other things with that butter-flour roux (most commonly curry blocks) and it's imperative for that roux to get golden-- I can't tell you how long it takes, but I'm pretty sure it's a bit longer than 2 minutes. you want it to get golden and nutty smelling, at the very least, it takes off that floury taste.

At culinary college I was taught that a white sauce thickened with a roux needs to be simmered gently for about half an hour to cook the flour fully and not have that taste.  So if you are set on using a roux, make it as you have been but after adding milk, bring to a boil then cook the sauce very gently (like a bubble pops up every 20-30 seconds) for half an hour before you mix any other ingredients.

Tereza Okava wrote:i make other things with that butter-flour roux (most commonly curry blocks) and it's imperative for that roux to get golden-- I can't tell you how long it takes, but I'm pretty sure it's a bit longer than 2 minutes. you want it to get golden and nutty smelling, at the very least, it takes off that floury taste.

None of the recipe books mentioned it changing colour.   When is this?   Before the milk?

melt the butter, add the flour, keep stirring til it gets golden, then add your liquid.

(keep in mind i'm not making mac and cheese with this, but otherwise it would just be raw flour with butter)

Try toasting the flour in the saute pan before melting the butter. Once it's brown it won't have that raw flavour any more.

Maybe this has something to do with the cheese.  What kind of cheese are you using?

I've tried a few times with various cheeses.  

I'm making this when I have milk and cheese to use up.  Eat some that day and freeze the rest for baking later.

I figured if I can learn how to make this white sauce it would increase the thing I can cook.

melt the butter, add the flour, keep stirring til it gets golden, then add your liquid.

Also at culinary college, the more the flour and butter toast, the less thickening power it has.  So just melting butter and adding flour:  maximum thickening.  Toasting till brown, least amount of thickening (good for gravy).  Golden/tan is medium, but generally with white sauce recipes don't toast it in order to keep it white and thick.

We just made broccoli mac and cheese the other day! Division of labor... means I am not the one making the sauce, so I'll have to check the recipe about the sauce...
Three things come to mind, however:
1) not cooking the roux long enough? you don't want it dark, but maybe you can just begin to tell it has changed color from when you started? possibly also a "hot enough" component to this... like not just flour in liquid butter, but hot enough to toast it slowly?
2) cooking the white sauce (whisking constantly) until it is thickening on it's own (before adding cheese), not just to reach a boil. I feel like this is just below the boil, low boil?
3) shred your own cheese? the store-bought pre-shredded stuff has anti-caking agents which can leave a gritty texture to the sauce, and might also seem like a raw flour taste?

I'll check the recipe when I get home. (leftover broccoli mac and cheese is for dinner tonight!)

For a cheese sauce, starting with a bechamel, I actually brown the butter first, then add the flour, and get it a bit deeper color, then proceed with the rest. Quite similar to Tereza's method. Also, John's method, and his specialties as a chef (before he retired) were saucier and game meats.

I don't use roux for mac & cheese. Around here that's mostly for gumbo. Tried to find a Justin Wilson (quite the character) roux video but everything from him seemed to be more about the gumbos than the roux. Here's another famous chef with good info about roux.

Melt 2 parts white cheddar, 2 parts white American, & 1 part strong asiago cheese with a little butter & maybe a tiny bit of milk if needed to thin the cheese sauce out. Pour it on the cooked pasta, top with some good breadcrumbs, pop it in the oven a few minutes to brown the top a bit. That's how I do it.

I'm with Ara. I typically use cornstarch to thicken sauces. It requires half the thickener of flour and doesn't have the floury taste. So for 1 cup of liquid, you want 1 Tbsp. of cornstarch. Just combine the cornstarch and liquid while cold because adding cornstarch to hot liquid will create clumps.

The recipe we use says: “Melt the butter over MED heat, sprinkle flour in slowly while whisking. Cook for approximately one minute whisking frequently. The texture will be similar to wet sand.”
Notes: The butter will bubble as it cooks, not looking for any toasting...

This recipe calls for milk and half and half, it gets added slowly and in two parts, whisking constantly to combine until smooth before proceeding each time. Continue over MED heat, whisking frequently until the sauce thickens, whisking frequently. There’s no mention of boiling, if it is, it’s low and hard to tell for all the whisking...a few bubbles form if you stop whisking?

My partner’s immediate  reply was “...sounds like not cooking the roux enough.”

I used to make my Mac n cheese with a roux, but I've got a new, lazy way that I love. Keep in mind I don't eat dairy so my recipe reflects that but could be easily adjusted to have dairy.

1. Roast a squash, or pull some roasted flesh from the freezer.
2. While that's happening, cook the pasta and whatever add-ins (usually greens, maybe spiced chickpeas).
3. Add into a blender a can of coconut milk, a couple cloves of garlic (I keep a jar of lacto fermented garlic in the fridge which makes this super easy as I don't have to peel), a big spoonful of miso, squirt of wholegrain mustard, a liberal pile of nutritional yeast (how much depends on how much sauce you want but I go by taste), a splash of the pasta cooking water, some butter or olive oil, S&P to taste, and the roasted squash flesh. Blend it up and you have lots of lovely cheese sauce with a rich velvety texture. No tending to a bubbling roux with constant stirring. It keeps well in the fridge for a week or so.

Yep. Flour not cooked, definitely tastes bad and not good for you. Enough comments on how to get it cooked no need to repeat.
My 2 cents worth is about how to make it taste better once you have made the roux properly. No judgment here, messed up my fair share getting it right.
So, the purist would say just add the cheese and/or milk/cream to the sauce and then add that to the cooked macaroni. Done.
That's all well and good. However, I also like different types of cheeses in my sauce, pick your favorites. Add to that a few drops of truffle oil and you add a whole new dimension.
Or, add the cheese sauce to the macaroni and add chopped up pepperoni, crispy bacon, different types of sausage(summer, garlic, ukranian- you get the idea) obviously I like my meat, again no judgment for non meat eaters. Once you have picked your additional tasties and mixed it up grate cheese on  top and bake til bubbling and the top layer of cheese is golden. ENJOY!

Yup, flour not cooked is that the flour and butter roux is not cooked enough, especially if there is no salt in the roux or pasta.  We use a roux for sauces and gravies.  If you do not add salt to the roux it will taste floury no matter how much you cook it.  For cheese sauces, we make the roux and as previous posts say, cook it until it becomes a golden colour.  We use a wooden spoon and keep flattening the mix then regather and stir.  It ends up a bit like a golf ball with a smudge on the pan base.  Add a cup of milk and mix until it is a thick paste then cook off for about 10 minutes on low so it looks like whipped cream or creamy mashed potato.  Add a little more milk and your cheeses.  If you can handle the "blue" style cheeses.  This will cause a party in your mouth.  Use blue, cheddar and hot English mustard (to just taste). Add milk or water to make it as runny as you want. Check for salt and pepper seasoning and adjust to taste.  Once you have the sauce right.  Use over cauliflower, broccoli, any pasta, spuds, carrots, and baked beetroot.  Add fried onion and bacon for even more of a lift. Onions caramelised and bacon till crispy.

I add mustard (e.g. French mustard) and horseradish to the sauce. Gives it that tangy (flavoursome) taste.

G Freden wrote:At culinary college I was taught that a white sauce thickened with a roux needs to be simmered gently for about half an hour to cook the flour fully and not have that taste.  

I agree with G here, although I only simmer for about 5 minutes while stirring constantly. I'm assuming that it is the sauce that is your problem, and that the texture of the macaroni is fine. Unfortunately we never have macaroni cheese here - my husband finds the texture nauseating, which is a pity since it used to be one of my favourites and is so easy.
I would use a nice strong cheddar with a tiny bit of mustard powder in the sauce, and top with more grated cheese and sliced tomatoes before baking.
Did you know macaroni pies are a thing in Scotland? Not the most healthy food perhaps, but good stodge to keep you going! They are baked in a pastry case which makes them portable for lunches.

source with recipe

I've gotten super lazy and now just use a can of evaporated milk and shredded cheese, and that's it! Initially, this was because gluten free mac and cheese made with a roux can get either crumbly or rubbery, but we've come to really prefer the lack of starch in the sauce. You can do this in the microwave or oven, and it comes together within a couple of minutes.

Are you adding ketchup at serving time? That always helps. (Just kidding. I love ketchup on Mac and cheese, though).

I’ve made Mac and cheese the way you’re describing and it has been fine. I didn’t brown the butter or cook the flour for more than a minute. I suspect the answer lies in the cheeses (plural) and spices you’re using.

That said, the BEST Mac and cheese I ever made was in a crock pot and it included eggs. Something about the long, slow cooking made it amazing. You might like a baked recipe better. Or you may like your recipe better if you bake it a bit after you stir it together.

Good luck!

I have a great and super easy mac and cheese recipe.  One box of noodles, 2 bags of cheese (with one being sharp cheddar and one being your choice), onion powder, and a container of sour cream. Cook your noodles to about 60% doneness and then mix them with the container of sour cream and 1.5 bags of cheese and a few sprinkles of onion powder.  Put the other 1/2 bag on the top (and with some breadcrumbs).

Bake it for about 30-35 min, till the crust is nice and brown.  This is phenomenally good and super easy!  No flour needed .

Like others have mentioned… a roux can give a raw flour taste if the flour isn’t cooked. Melt/heat your fat/oil, then add flour and stir/whisk until the flour browns some. Then add whole milk and stir frequently on medium low heat until thickened. Then I add some cheddar, parmigiana cheese and lots of pepper. Cook your pasta with lots of salt in the water until mostly done.

My latest version and hands down favorite uses steamed and mashed cauliflower added to everything else which makes it creamier and keeps it from drying out without anyone noticing the veggie!!

I sauté an onion before making the roux and cheese sauce. Mix in cauliflower then pasta. Put in baking dish then top with mushroom stuffing crumbs! A happy accident from having leftover stuffed mushroom filling.

Stuffed mushroom filling:
Breadcrumbs
Parmesan cheese
Italian seasoning
Garlic seasoning
Pepper
Salt
Several cloves chopped garlic
Chopped mushroom stems
Olive Oil to get mixture moist for stuffing

Can be used to stuff mushroom caps or top Mac and cheese ( I like to mix some crumb topping into the Mac and cheese also)

Good luck Raven!

If you use condensed milk you don't need to worry about making a roux, just warm up the condensed milk and melt some cheese in it. If it separates you can use a cornstarch slurry to help bring it back together.

My go to is just getting 2 cups water and 6 oz condensed milk steaming, mix in 7 oz macaroni, and cook on medium to medium low for like 10 minutes to cook the pasta, then I'll add 1/2 tsp of cornstarch mixed in a bit of condensed milk, let it cook about a minute, then off the heat mix in 8 oz of shredded cheese.

I failed at my one attempt at macaroni and cheese so what I make has always been out of the box.

Looking back at that failed mac and cheese I am sure it lacked the cream sauce.  I might not have a problem if I were so inclined to try again.

I looked in the "Joy of Cooking" which has become my standard for cookbooks since all the Fannie Farmer ones are buried in storage.

Her directions were basically to make a white sauce and then add Cheddar or Colby cheese. How simple is that?

She said the cheese sauce could be made in advance and then just poured over cooked macaroni.

My mom always mixed the flour with the grated cheddar cheese, then added the milk to the macaroni, and then the cheese/flour mix.  Very simple, but yummy.

No flour - https://www.marthastewart.com/348566/john-legends-macaroni-and-cheese.  This is a drier textured mac & cheese that I grew up with in the Northeast.  I never got my mother's recipe but this is really close.

When I do mac and cheese I don't put that much work into it and I also add broccoli and kielbasa (sausage) to make a hearty meal.

Boil the macaroni.  At the same time steam chopped broccoli and brown kielbasa.(I slice it lengthwise and then cut slices of it.)

When the macaroni is cooked, I put it back in the pot over a very low heat and  I directly mix in shredded sharp cheddar and Velveeta (this helps the cheeses to melt nicely.  If you aren't a Velveeta fan, just use a little), and other cheeses.  I frequently add some fresh grated parmesan and some blue cheese, but they aren't necessary. Another good cheese is smoked gouda.  You can add mozarella if you don't like the stronger cheese flavors.  A dab of dijon mustard adds good flavor even if you aren't a mustard fan as I am not.  I also add a little heavy cream which also helps the cheese to melt and get creamy.  

Once the cheese is all melted and coating the macaroni, then mix in the broccoli and kielbasa.  It is a great meal in a pot and makes great leftovers.  It even freezes well.

What kind of cheese are you using? I have found that cheese is everything when it comes to macaroni and cheese.

I just bought some Kroger brand Gouda and provolone and neither has any flavor. They both taste like wax. They both taste the same. Even Kraft cheese doesn't make good macaroni and cheese unless you buy sharp or extra sharp- and even then it is just getting by. And the pre-shredded stuff. NO. Just no.

Try some good quality cheese from the deli. A good sharp, extra sharp, or Gouda, or whatever flavor you prefer.

Cheese is everything! Get the good stuff. Don't skimp.

r ranson wrote:

Tereza Okava wrote:i make other things with that butter-flour roux (most commonly curry blocks) and it's imperative for that roux to get golden-- I can't tell you how long it takes, but I'm pretty sure it's a bit longer than 2 minutes. you want it to get golden and nutty smelling, at the very least, it takes off that floury taste.

None of the recipe books mentioned it changing colour.   When is this?   Before the milk?

The darker the flour the more flavor but less thickening ability it will have......based on what I have heard over and over from professional chefs.

Joy Baisden wrote:What kind of cheese are you using? I have found that cheese is everything when it comes to macaroni and cheese.

I just bought some Kroger brand Gouda and provolone and neither has any flavor. They both taste like wax. They both taste the same. Even Kraft cheese doesn't make good macaroni and cheese unless you buy sharp or extra sharp- and even then it is just getting by. And the pre-shredded stuff. NO. Just no.

Try some good quality cheese from the deli. A good sharp, extra sharp, or Gouda, or whatever flavor you prefer.

Cheese is everything! Get the good stuff. Don't skimp.

YES to this and also choose cheeses that will melt well. Cheddar is not the best for melting all the time. I often use a blend of Gouda, Havarti, and Colby and Monterey Jack. If you can find smoked cheese that is my personal favorite addition.

Lots of insight offered here, probably centuries of cumulative experience.

One thing, check into white sauce or bechmel recipes.  You may be adding too much flour.  There are different proportions of flour to butter, depending on what you’re doing with the sauce.  I have made white sauces (and gravies) with some flour in what seemed like a lake of fats.  The flour creates the emulsifier that allows the fats to stay mixed with the waters.  And depending on the kind of fats you are using, the fats are also a vehicle for nutrients.

On adding liquid to the roux, it is very important to go slowly.  I have had plenty of difficulties with that step.  I’ve developed two different strategies, one take the pan off the heat.  When it’s cool, THEN add the water or milk or broth, and mix/ mash with a fork until there are no lumps, then slowly reheat, stirring constantly to keep the stuff on the bottom from coagulating into lumps.  Two, I put the roux into a blender and add half the liquid (there has to be plenty of room in the blender jar).  An immersion blender also works.  And it’s more than once I have put the sauce through a sieve!

If you’re using pre grated cheese, bought in a plastic bag, consider this:  plastic allows escape of many compounds, and who knows how long it’s been in the bag losing flavor… pre grated also allows for more escape of flavor components because it’s cut into tiny bits.  And no telling what secret GRAS processes are being used to preserve it or put it into suspended animation!  (for example many conventional and organic bags of greens are packaged with nitrogen gas). Cheese should have an aroma distinctive of the variety.  If there’s no aroma, it’s because those compounds have all escaped from what used to be food in its transition to a food like substance.  Those compounds that are responsible for aroma are generated from the life processes of the bacteria used in fermenting the milk and curd, and aging the cheese.  Cheese in a block is food, grated in a plastic bag or carton is processed food.  Though I buy primarily organic, or make my own cheese, I depend on Tilamook brand cheese in a 2 pound loaf because (I hope this is still true) the milk in the cheese is source specific identified.  If/when we get a mad cow scare in my country, I won’t have to wonder about where my cheese came from.

And there’s always the added benefit of less plastic use.

Another strategy:  my sister skips the sauce altogether.  She beats an egg into the milk, puts the cooked macaroni into a baking dish, stirs in the cheese, pours the milk egg mixture over it and bakes it.  I’ve had it, and I don’t think it has much flavor, but probably that’s a function of how much cheese she puts in, and she makes it for her grand daughter who is quite particular about what she will eat.

Wow, what great suggestions!

Thank you everyone so far.  

Cheese keeps coming up.  I tried kraft cheese when I was a kid, didn't like it because it tasted like waxed plastic to me.  I only get good quality cheese so no need to worry there.  If it's not good to munch on, then it's not going in my fridge.

I used to make a really delicious sauce out of cauliflower.  But it's now over $10 a head so I can't really bring myself to buy it and it's not something that grows well in my garden.  Thus the quest to learn the white sauce version.

Stovetop
Cut up the cauliflower and boil in salted water with peeled garlic until soft.  Take out of the hot water and bring water back to a boil and cook the pasta while making the sauce.  Mix a crazy amount of butter and mush the cauliflower (add some of the pasta water).  When pasta is cooked and drained, add cauliflower back in and mix into the pasta with an obscene amount of cheese.  season salt, pepper, and spicy cock sauce.  

Pressure cooker
I use the one-pot method and cook the cauliflower and pasta at the same time in broth (because there's no draining, we can put more flavour in the cooking water).  When cooked, add in butter and cheese and the cauliflower mushes up as the cheese is stirred in.  

But alas, I have to wait until the price of cauliflower gets more reasonable.  

Try using double that amount of butter: 4Tablespoons butter to 2Tablespoons flour to 500mL milk. Do make sure to brown this to a proper roux by stirring over medium flame until a nutty smell emerges, as the others have said.

Evaporated milk is definitely the easiest, smoothest sauce base. No thickener necessary, but you may use it with the roux base in addition to or instead of milk if you'd like it to be very thick.

Another option for the no-bake style is an egg-thickened cream sauce, aka alfredo sauce. I don't recommend trying this without a double-boiler. Ingredients are simple: eggs, heavy cream, parmesan or asiago, minced garlic (I use fresh always), salt, pepper. (...And a hint of lemon juice and grated nutmeg at the end to cut through the richness and make it perfect!). To adapt this to your mac n cheese, use cheddar, monterey jack, gouda, etc. instead of/in addition to parmesan, and omit the garlic (unless you are a garlic-fiend like myself). If you're worried about salmonella, don't do this method, because the eggs aren't cooked through. If you do bake this, the eggs will cook, and I don't know what it will be like. Try at your own risk!

For 500mL heavy cream, I would use 2 eggs.

My humble method:
 Have your finely-grated cheese ready and the pasta (or time it up so the pasta will be done cooking before or at the same time as the sauce, which should only be about 15minutes tops, I think).
 Add water to the bottom pot of the double-boiler so that the top pot will sit OVER, not IN, the water. Put the lid or the top pot on and bring it to a rolling boil.
In the top pot of the double-boiler, gently beat the eggs until well-mixed but not frothy.
Stir in the cream. Stir in the garlic and cheese. Put that top pot over the boiling water now if you haven't already.
Stir constantly until it's quite hot, BUT NOT boiling!!
Immediately remove the top pot and set on a cool burner or a trivet. The cheese should be melted at this point.
 Add a few drops of lemon juice, a pinch of grated nutmeg, or a drop or three of mustard. Salt & pepper to taste or just wait until it's served to do so.
Pour over the pasta and serve immediately! With more grated cheese on top 😊

**If you let this come to the boil or let it sit too long over heat, the eggs will cook into awkward lumps and your sauce is wrecked!! Babysit the sauce and make sure to eat it right away as it cools down fast, having not been fully boiling at any time.** This is also the basic method for making an egg custard dessert!

I highly recommend adding the lemon juice drops and hint of nutmeg to any cheese sauce! It really does make it taste cheesier and less greasy.

Happy cheesing from Wisconsin!! 🧀🐄

Thanks for the cauliflower sauce recipe, it looks fabulous, and I wouldn’t pay 10 bucks a head either!

Our local grocery store had an $8 head of red cabbage!  I thought that was outrageous, and left it for the next shopper.

I’m sure to remember your cauliflower story on my next food trip, as I shake my head over prices and availability.

This move to what amounts to a food desert has certainly opened my eyes to many things.  Food quality and availability is just one.  Mostly I cope by remembering that I must be very privileged, even “wealthy” (?!!!) to turn up my nose and refuse to participate, by traveling 150 miles every 2-3 weeks to access different supply lines, with loads of other errands to do, to make the trip worth the road miles.

What I did last summer and fall was buy fresh produce and freeze it.  Cauliflower only 5 bucks a head then (still outrageously expensive IMO).

But that emphasizes my relative wealth and privilege doesn’t it?  A freezer and electricity to run it?  Buying food for the winter, because I wasn’t so hungry at the time that I needed to eat the food that day?!

About 2005-6, I traveled to Tahsis (Tasis?) on the outer coast of Vancouver island several times and stayed for months.  I preferred the one ferry trip to the south of Vancouver island, as opposed to the  2 ferry trip to the middle of the island.

I learned where there were produce vendors on the streets of the city there, where fresh produce was available from wooden crates at prices much lower than the chain grocery store where I shopped in the town up-island.  I always thought the produce must be very fresh.  It looked fresh, had great flavor.  I developed the untested theory that “inner city” locations where the vegetable based Asian cuisine restaurants and food vendors are located, is a very good place to shop for produce!  I guess this time of year that option wouldn’t be available in even those locations.🙁

Well, enough of my stories.  

Good luck with your mac and cheese!

These last few trips to the grocery store have made me seek out more recipes for using food before it goes off.  Usually, the milk is fed to the chickens the day it starts to turn slightly sour, but this white sauce seems like a good way to use it up.

Pasta is such a good base for using up leftovers.