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the old view is going away

 
master steward
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I think that this will be my seventh attempt at this.

The old view will be going away.  

The developers have asked "are there any other changes to the new view to make for the people that like the old view?"  Right now, my answer is "no, go ahead and shut it off."

I try to ask you all, but the only answer I get back is 40 variations of "I like the old view."  Which doesn't help.  

Maybe if I just turn off the old view then people will understand:  I am about to turn off the old view.  

Let me try this bigger and redder:



I am about to turn off the old view.




This includes the old forum view, the old category view, the old thread view and ...  the "recent topics" list.  These things will all be gone someday soon.  I suppose if somebody gives me $40,000 I would find a way to keep it going.  But I really doubt that is going to happen.  

The old view has to go because we keep adding features to the codebase and it appears to be breaking parts of the old view.   Or we add a feature and people complain that the feature is not available in the old view.  We need our code base to be lean and malleable - because there are a lot more features coming.

What would be handy is if people could make suggestions for new features added to the current view.  It is very helpful if the people making those suggestions somehow make it clear that they are familiar with our current feature set.  Especially the different views available on the home page.


If this thread has a lot of good, clear, knowledgable suggestions, it is easy for the developers to understand what is being requested.  And then when the old view does go away, there is a good chance that the new view will be lovely for everybody.
 
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Unfortunately for me, the web browser on my computer for work won't allow me to reply or write new posts. It doesn't seem to recognize the button as being a more than just a graphic. I am not allowed to update the browser.
I understand what you are doing and why, I just wanted to explain why at least one user is still using the old view.

Edit: Hmm, it seems to work now. Nevermind then.
 
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when in the new view, in 'forums' and using the 'most recent topics as table' choice from the drop down box next to 'change views'  and when looking at that page...
I would like to have clickable buttons for the pages for threads that have more than one page.
I would also like to be able to enlarge the print without the page going off the screen.  

thanks...

to anyone who hasn't tried the new view yet...just take the leap, I hesitated for awhile and in the end it's wasn't much of an adjustment, especially as Code Ranch quickly added a 'recent topics' view very much like the old one that we all knew and loved.
 
Judith Browning
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Judith Browning wrote:when in the new view, in 'forums' and using the 'most recent topics as table' choice from the drop down box next to 'change views'  and when looking at that page...
I would like to have clickable buttons for the pages for threads that have more than one page.
I would also like to be able to enlarge the print without the page going off the screen.  

thanks...

to anyone who hasn't tried the new view yet...just take the leap, I hesitated for awhile and in the end it's wasn't much of an adjustment, especially as Code Ranch quickly added a 'recent topics' view very much like the old one that we all knew and loved.



one more to add to my list...
I would like to be able to go to additional past pages of lists of 'recent topics' as we could in the old view.  I didn't see any apparent way to do that in the new view that I mentioned above.

 
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I agree with Judith, it's easier to get to page 3 (or whichever) in a thread from the "Most Recent Topics as Table" page (which is closest to the old view) rather than having to go to page 1 of that thread first.

Also, I have both old and new saved to my desktop so I can go straight to the Recent Topics list in one click, but in the new view if I am viewing a thread and hit the Recent button in the dashboard it takes me back to the old view every time.

Could we have a Back to Top button at the bottom of the page? I'd find that useful, instead of the long scroll back to the dashboard.

I still have more new feature exploring to do, but so far it's C   L. Thanks Tall Paul !!
 
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Could we have a Back to Top button at the bottom of the page? I'd find that useful, instead of the long scroll back to the dashboard.


Just click the "Home" key on your keypad.  BINGO to the top of the page.
 
Karen Donnachaidh
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John,
I'm using the full site view on a mobile phone. I could hit the back button which would take me to the top of the Recent Topics page where I'd be a little closer to the dashboard from there, unless I was on page 2 of a thread it would take me back to page 1. If had clicked on a link to a thread in my email, then I'd be taken back into email with the back button. Unless I'm totally missing something and that could well be the case.
 
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John Polk wrote:

Could we have a Back to Top button at the bottom of the page? I'd find that useful, instead of the long scroll back to the dashboard.


Just click the "Home" key on your keypad.  BINGO to the top of the page.



Works great on the computer.  However, my tablet doesn't have one of those.... I don't think.  It would be a really nice feature for viewing on the go.
 
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paul wheaton wrote:

This includes the old forum view, the old category view, the old thread view and ...  the "recent topics" list.  These things will all be gone someday soon.  I suppose if somebody gives me $40,000 I would find a way to keep it going.  But I really doubt that is going to happen.  



Wait, wait WAIT! I'm on the new view, but I can still access the recent topics list--there's a hyperlink at the top that leads to it. Does this mean you'll be deleting it from the new view? The recent topic list is pretty much the only way I interact with these forums unless I'm searching/researching for something in particular or making a post.


The only other function of the old view that I still use (I switch back to it just to access it) is the old style list of forums/subforums. I like the older version because--depending on the subforum--it tells me what the forum is about. This is really helpful for me when I'm trying to figure out if something goes in "Great White North" or "Cascadia" or what states the "Rockies" incorporates, or if something fits better in "Survival" or "Ancestral Skills."
 
paul wheaton
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Does this mean you'll be deleting it from the new view?



I don't know.  

There was a bug on the "recent topics" page.  A lot of that code was moved to the new view.  Does the bug still exist?  https://permies.com/t/57469/tnk/screen-shots-wrong-names-popping

As we make changes to other parts of the system, does the code from that page break?  

There are about 40 different factors in this decision.   Currently I am trying to figure it out while navigating a lot of different issues.  My spidey sense says that it might be too broken and a hot spot for future broken-ness.

I would like to suggest that people use the new view, and people make suggestions about the "recent" column so that it ends up being reeeeeeeally close to the view that you have come to love.  



 
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I am using the new view and have been since the beginning (mine, I'm relatively new here). But one thing that is lacking in the recent topics table is a way to go to the relevant page of a popular topic.

It doesn't matter if it's two pages or seventy, when I click on a topic it takes me to page one.  For a really large topic, I can click on the name of the last person who posted and then go to their post on that topic from the profile page, but that seems unnecessarily complicated.

Mostly I just spend a lot of time scrolling these days. Less of course, recently because I've noticed a significant slowing in posting frequency. I don't know how much of this is related to more time needed in the gardens (I know this is the height of many growing seasons), people away from their computers during vacations, frustration with change or some unforseen reason, altogether.
 
paul wheaton
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Casie,

I just went to the home page and on the recent column was a thread with multiple pages.   I clicked on the "4" for "page 4" --  it seemed to work.  Is this not working for you?

I also like the thing where I have activated some of the pie features so that my thread-by-thread tracking is activated and for each thread I visit, I am automatically taken to where I last read - complete with a green bar showing how far I have read.
 
r ranson
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"most recent topics as table"  view (although much appreciated by me) doesn't have the page numbers for the threads.  It also doesn't have image to click to go to the last post in the thread.
 
Karen Donnachaidh
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paul wheaton wrote:

I just went to the home page and on the recent column was a thread with multiple pages.   I clicked on the "4" for "page 4" --  it seemed to work.  Is this not working for you?



On my phone I see the page numbers only when I've chosen Default or Recent Topics Full Width. I like Most Recent Topic as Table but there's no page numbers from that home page. When I choose Recents (all the way at the bottom of the scroll) all I see is wood.
 
Casie Becker
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I've tried most recent as a table, and most recent as a sortable table and neither of these have the page numbers showing at all.

Changing the view to recent topics full width did get me the page options. I can try using that view for a while if the scrolling starts driving me absolutely bonkers.

I like greater amount of information available in the table formats. It mostly keeps me from accidentally ending up in the cider press, helps me identify topics relevant to my interests even when they have odd titles, and makes it easier to see if someone has responded to something I've posted, without checking email.
 
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Casie, I followed the instructions below a couple of days ago, and it's working well for me. I've bookmarked the new pseudo-recent-topics page
https://permies.com/forums?homepageView=19. I can't see the number of pages that the thread has, but if I click on the thread, it takes me to the first post that I hadn't read before. Here are instructions.

https://permies.com/t/57404/tnk/modify-home-page#489016

John Polk wrote:If you have PIE, there is a feature in your profile (PIE only preferences) that allows you to go directly to the first unread post in each listing.  See attached image to see how to enable this.  This feature draws a green line across the screen after the last post that you have read (which will be right above the point that you are taken to when you click the thread).



The one thing still missing from View 19 in my opinion, is the lack of further pages of recent threads at the bottom. Permies is so active that there may be a hundred or more recent threads that I haven't seen when I next get online.
How-to-get-first-unread-post.PNG
[Thumbnail for How-to-get-first-unread-post.PNG]
 
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I'm still on the old view, I like to have a process tree type of forums listing, I don't keep up enough to care what's recent, the information I'm interested in may be very old, that's fine. I did the things listed in this thread, found the table view, that's marginally better than the version with the little pictures, that one is just chaos on my screen, but only marginally. The "List of all forums" is somewhat useful, still a big fan of the old style tree type list over that one, as I can click it and get a list, not the little pictures etc, which I can't so far on the new version...

Something I fight with on both views (and it may be my browser) is the display wants to be as wide as my whole screen, not just as wide as the window I have open, and I have to scroll back and forth. I almost never have my browser on full screen, as I have other things I'm doing/watching at the same time.

FWIW, I'm an old school computer user, stuck on windows for the moment, and hate the look of the recent OS's, and the lack of ability to just get a basic process tree, no nonsense involved. I might just be a computer luddite, but the whole trend toward more colors, and cute little buttons, and make it all unmodifiable by the user just annoys me. I'm probably headed for Linux when I have time. So take my opinion with a grain of Celtic Sea Salt...

Mostly though, THANK YOU for Permies!! I love it here So much to learn! So many smart and creative people posting!!
I curtsy nicely at you, and appreciate all you do!! (All of you!)
 
paul wheaton
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The old view will probably go away today.
 
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paul wheaton wrote:The old view will probably go away today.


And now it's gone!
 
r ranson
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Just a  heads up.  For those of you who feel traumatized by the events in this thread, there are loads of settings you can use to customise the site under "my profile".  You can make thing less busy, or more, and if you have PIE you can do like I do and turn off the wood background as well as some other spiffy tools.

This is a great opportunity to try some new buttons and customise how the site looks to you.
 
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raven ranson, I couldn’t find all the spiffy tools you mentioned, nor how to turn off the wood effect.

i was quite happy with the old view, it was functional and simple. The new view seems to be change for the sake of change. I find the wall to wall wood and the creamy colours depressing. I like wood, I like greenwood working, I like my woodburner, I like wood tools, bowls, spoons I like trees, but wall to wall tea stains on the screen I would like to get rid of. If I have no choice, and I have to put up with the view of the world dictated by paul wheaton, then I do have a choice, and sadly I will not visit the forum. Why the changes have been inflicted I don’t understand, If did understand then I probably would accept them anyway. I would liken it to the sort of change inflicted by climate change supporters who refuse to debate the science and just claim “consensus”. People might not agree, but that is the way it appears to me.  I have been attacked on other forums for questioning someones position so I am used to the unnecessarily hostile responses. Hopefully I will be pleasantly surprised with the responses on permies.com.

So the question is, how do I set up what preferences to get as near the old view as possible?
 
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Don't beat me up for it, but there is a tab called 'Pie-only preferences'. This means there are options for people who have been given some pie that aren't there for people who haven't.

I just turned off the woodwork, to see if it worked, and it works; you get a bland brown colour in return.
Personally I'm someone who shrugs his shoulders over all of this, I mean the pie as well as the looks of the site, I didn't even notice a change between 'old view' and 'new view', but what you're looking for is probably a slice of pie away.
 
Nicole Alderman
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Hi Roy, I don't think we can change the beige colors behind the posts. I'll give you a piece of pie so you can turn off the woodgrain background if you like.

Like you, I was a little off-put by all the changes, but in the years we've had this "new" view, I've really gotten used to the woodgrain and the nifty menu on the side. For a few days, I accidentally glitched into the old view, and it was really disorienting for me. Maybe give the "new" view a few weeks to adjust to and you might not find it so distracting and depressing.
 
Roy Clarke
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Thanks for the pie Nicole, it does allow me to do a few things, but the only part of the forum that is remotely comfortable in my opinion is the reply box. I just can’t understand why the new view is thought to be so good. The old list of threads/topics was easy to scan through, now the “list” looks like a scrapbook with pieces of paper dotted about on the page, albeit neatly arranged.

I’m afraid this isn’t for me, it seems more like “Pauls Pages” rather than “Permies Forum” so I won’t be visiting much in future (if at all). I suppose the simple comment is content is there, but overshadowed by the bling, even with the wood grain gone, the overall brown style is soooo depressing.
 
Nicole Alderman
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Oh! Just go to "Recent Topics" link at the top of the page! That will give you the easier to look at list of posts. I rarely visit "My Forums," as I find it a bit overwhelming, too (though now that I've gotten used to it, I do like being able to see quickly what threads people really like). Still, my brain likes https://permies.com/forums/recentTopics/list so much better, and that's what I use to navigate the forums. Try that link before you give up!
 
Judith Browning
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I suppose the simple comment is content is there, but overshadowed by the bling, even with the wood grain gone, the overall brown style is soooo depressing.



The content is definitely still there  This site is one of the easiest to navigate of any others I've tried and it's loaded with content.

There are lot's of options for setting up your page, it just takes a little exploration.
As Nicole has said, using the 'recent topics' button gives you a clear list of posts if you like it without the thumbnail photos and 'best of's' etc....

I'm not sure I see the 'bling'? unless that's referring to the thumbnail photos?  

Permies has no annoying pop ups as so many sites do now....what ads there are are unobtrusive and can be turned off with a slice of pie.

There was a lot of thought and discussion put into this new version of the site and of course not everyone liked it right off...I was one who hesitated to use the 'new' version although I've quickly gotten used to it and kind of forgot about the 'old version' and what it was like.
I think a lot of times when we don't see the steps and thought involved in a decision it's harder to understand the 'why'.



 
Pearl Sutton
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I REALLY prefer the All Forums View it's close to a process tree.
 
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