• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education skip experiences global resources the cider press projects digital market permies.com private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Nicole Alderman
  • r ranson
  • Anne Miller
  • Pearl Sutton
  • James Freyr
  • Mike Haasl
stewards:
  • Burra Maluca
  • Joylynn Hardesty
  • paul wheaton
garden masters:
  • Greg Martin
  • Steve Thorn
gardeners:
  • Carla Burke
  • Jay Angler
  • Mike Barkley

In recovery healing and deepening spirituality with permaculture principals.

 
Posts: 7
Location: Minnesota
4
  • Likes 6
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hello,
I've been following permies and doing a lot of reading, listening to podcast and watching videos on permaculture off and on for a couple of years now. I think the work that is being done along with the innovation, trial and error that takes place in this community and all over the world is amazing. What a concept, Working with nature instead of against it and healing the land and the people that inhabit it.
I guess that brings me to the main reason for this post. Myself I'm a greatfull recovering alcoholic. And just recently it occurred to me that maybe permaculture and its practices could be a very beneficial routine to include into my recovery practice. What better way to stay connected to a higher power and spirituality then working in sync with nature growing food, healing the the land along with myself.
I've had many gardens over the years and found great satisfaction growing food and being outdoors. I'am currently in a treatment center getting help with alcohol addiction. So anything that keeps me connected, grounded and out of self will be what I need.
Just thought I'd throw this out there. any thoughts comments?

Thanks Much,
Bud
 
pollinator
Posts: 432
Location: France, Burgundy, parc naturel Morvan
146
forest garden fish fungi trees food preservation cooking solar wood heat woodworking homestead
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Just written a whole reply , went up in smoke somehow.
Well short then.
Yes it does.
Gardening in itself is deeply fullfilling, permaculture even more. Because of all the small victories, confirming your logic.
Gave up smoking, after at least ten attempts since permaculture.
Drink lots less, because it's boring.
Gotto run now!
Do it, don't hesitate, it will stop the drinking.
 
pollinator
Posts: 4328
Location: Anjou ,France
242
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I think it gives you a reason for living and is very life affirming a good thing surly

David
 
Posts: 7268
Location: Ozarks zone 7 alluvial,black,deep clay/loam with few rocks, wonderful creek bottom!
1229
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

it occurred to me that maybe permaculture and its practices could be a very beneficial routine to include into my recovery practice. What better way to stay connected to a higher power and spirituality then working in sync with nature growing food, healing the the land along with myself.
I've had many gardens over the years and found great satisfaction growing food and being outdoors. I'am currently in a treatment center getting help with alcohol addiction. So anything that keeps me connected, grounded and out of self will be what I need.



Bud, I think you're on the right track...there is not much that working in a garden and nurturing growing things won't help...I think there's even a Bill Mollison quote to that effect... something about 'all the answers to the worlds problems being found in the garden'...maybe someone here will know it or maybe I'm misremembering totally

I quit drinking and smoking cigarettes in the early eighties and am so glad to have that behind me...good luck and best wishes, sounds like you're heading in a good direction
 
pollinator
Posts: 735
Location: Central Virginia USA
56
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Even though my personal history was fraught with confusion and distress over the course of the earth's life support systems that led me into drinking and a meaningless lifestyle, quitting drinking had to be a first step before anything else could start to make sense again. Certainly saving myself had to be the first priority before I set out to save the planet.

My suggestion would be not to put the cart before the horse, We heal the body, then the mind, then the spirit, and while it may not be in isolated steps, if you have a problem with alcohol the solution is to not drink. Anything less than that throws everything else away. All the high rhetoric (especially in the beginning) can often be a snowstorm for finding a way around that very first and ultimate directive for an alcoholic.

The phrase "don't drink, don't think, and go to meetings" comes to mind. I found the steps to be boring, tedious at first, but later they became my best friends. It seems a shame if you were to miss that friendship thinking you had found something more important.

Don't get me wrong, to have a clear ethical purpose and a directive to act has given me more satisfaction and fulfillment than anything else I could imagine. But, I was already well established in a non drinking lifestyle before Permaculture came along.

So work the steps, work the program, and do a little Permaculture on the side while you're learning how to live again.

Or at least that's how I see it --sep 26, 1983 was my last drink and I'm a grateful, recovering alcoholic
 
pollinator
Posts: 1420
Location: RRV of da Nort
179
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Bud Rivera wrote: So anything that keeps me connected, grounded and out of self will be what I need.
Just thought I'd throw this out there. any thoughts comments?



Yeah, just adding this link to a local homeless shelter that has been implementing a Permies-style annual and perennial garden on location in inner city Fargo.....there are probably an increasing number of these around the country:  https://permies.com/t/58028/Feeding-Homeless#588713

I think it's great idea.  So often shelters and rehab centers *give* their dwellers things instead of encouraging them to participate in growing/building things that might be more useful to their overall recovery.  .....the old "teach a (wo)man to fish instead of giving them one".   Although I suppose the traditional model of shelters has it's place, it also keeps the population in recovery dependent upon manufactured goods, edible or otherwise.  The fact that shelters like that in the above link are, in a communal way, teaching about growing, harvesting, and preparing their own food is huge in my mind in bringing about a greater sense of self-determination as well as the power of healthy interaction.

Bud, I would just add that there is nothing wrong with the self....it gets damaged depending on the path it went through on its way to the present.  But it's there to be repaired alongside of the development of that larger connection that you seek.  Best wishes to you!

 
master steward
Posts: 3242
Location: West Tennessee
1082
cat purity trees books chicken food preservation cooking building homestead
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I used to drink and smoke. I can’t believe I used to smoke. WTF was I thinking? Good thing is I quit five years ago. Better late than never right? I used to drink everyday also, and did for far too many years. I do by best not to think about my past choices and instead focus on today and my future, after all, there is no future in my past.

Bud, I totally get where you’re coming from. Homesteading, gardening, permaculture, farming, gives me purpose. That and having a cool wife who’s also on board with all things homesteading helps too. Taking care of and tending to my garden and animals (cats & chickens now, will include pigs and cows in the near future) makes me happy, and as a bonus it puts food on the table. I need to have things to nurture and take care of, it’s in my heart.

I fully understand what you mean when you say “working in sync with nature growing food, healing the land along with myself”. I prefer nothing more than having my hands in the soil, working outside in the garden while songbirds sing to me. That brings me the most peace, while walking thru the woods is a very close second place. It's very important to me to be a good steward to my little piece of this earth, and when I die, leave it in better condition than how I found it.

Bud, I think you’re on the right track incorporating permaculture and it’s practices into your life! I wish you the best in your recovery. Good luck!
 
pollinator
Posts: 285
Location: North Carolina, USA Zone 7b
64
forest garden books chicken food preservation wood heat woodworking homestead
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Absolutely on the right track Bud!  Kudos for your hard work and insights for your future, and very brave to expose yourself here.    I'm an adult child of an alcoholic with some social anxiety, former smoker and continuing sugar addiction myself - so I know a bit about the struggle.   But somehow spending time with my hands in the soil immediately erases my fears, frustration, anger when I'm out there.  Never have a craving when I'm out doing hard manual labor, or just sitting under my crabapple tree watching the chickens forage(http://www.healinglandscapes.org/blog/2011/01/its-in-the-dirt-bacteria-in-soil-makes-us-happier-smarter/).  I have a hat that says "Gardening...Cheaper than Therapy"  haha!   I dislike coming back in the house where I live alone and brood too much.   There are more and more gardening programs, residential and not, urban and country, developed to help soldiers, addicts, ex-prisoners to heal from PTSD and other traumas (most addicts have some childhood trauma buried in their soul).   Something I didn't expect when I started researching how to grow my food (5 yrs ago), and discovered Permaculture, is caring about something bigger than myself (mainly the future of our environment).   "Feeling, smelling, hearing, watching" nature, brings god into my heart.  I too, enjoy the challenge of being resourceful, experimenting, and maximizing my results in natural ways.    

A search for "Horticultural Therapy" on YouTube produces many examples of treatment programs, some residential, for all sorts of recovery issues.    I'm hoping someday I can get out there and volunteer.    Best wishes to you, and I hope you'll continue sharing as you progress :)
 
Bud Rivera
Posts: 7
Location: Minnesota
4
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Good Morning,
Thanks for the responses didn't really think anyone would see this let alone respond to it.
Anxious this morning. My time is up here at Hazelden. heading home into the real world today.
It's been amazing, emotional and very hard five weeks here. But, I'm grateful that I made it here. Not everyone does.
I highly recommend anyone going through a good treatment center when first getting clean & sober.
I had to explore the deep dark shit that I had locked up and leave it here. Something I didn't do when trying to get sober in the past. Still have some house cleaning to do but I got a good start. Meetings getting a sponsor and working the steps will be a big part of my life from here on out. Everything else will be second.
Will, gotta go finish packing have a good one.

Thanks again,
Bud
 
Posts: 74
11
  • Likes 6
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi Bud,

Thank you for your sharing. And now for some advice, and that advice is........... YOU CAN DO IT.



Working in the garden and being in the woods and nature is humbling and awe-inspiring at times. We observe connections and interconnections that occur whereby the growth and abundance would not occur. This has allowed me to check in with my ego, to 'get out of my own way' and learn how to be humble and thankful. You are experiencing this now with your observation of the relationship between permaculture and your own physical and mental health. This is wonderful, beautiful. This is LIFE.

And to those who might be reading this thread who are resonating with it for whatever reason, I would like to share a feeling and/or opinion. Which is, witnessing the incredible power of alcohol. It has become so ingrained in our culture by becoming a mega-industry, and has been sanctioned and 'celebrated' by society more than ever through sport culture and pervasive advertising to the point of not even being questioned. This has created a powerful grip that has made an impact over 3-4 generations now and has been passed on. Alcohol has decimated our Aboriginal peoples. I respect it's power, and because of the effects its had on myself, my family, and friends I chose to keep it out of my life and instead dig in the dirt and drink up our fresh air and clean water.
 
bob day
pollinator
Posts: 735
Location: Central Virginia USA
56
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
PM me any time you want to "talk"  i'll send you  my phone number if you want.

When I first got out of a four week program I sort of scoffed at the 90 in 90, but fortunately as things worked out I ended up doing an even longer period of a meeting every day, some meetings I literally had to walk miles for at first, because I didn't have a license, but as I got to know people i got more and more rides and more and more meetings, and it really helped get me out of myself.

I used to think I was taking advantage of people and hesitated to ask for help, but when the time came to get my license and I started to drive again, I had a chance to talk with one of my "rides" expressing how grateful I was for his help and saying I guessed he felt better now that he didn't have to drive out of his way to get me.

He told me instead that he looked forward to driving me because it made sure that he got to a meeting and he sort of missed it. What I'm saying is that whether you can drive or not, whatever help you need don't be afraid to ask for it. indirectly you will be helping those you ask for help keep their own program strong.
 
pollinator
Posts: 756
Location: Southern Oregon
162
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I see alcohol as a symptom of the problem, not the problem in and of itself. It's a coping mechanism. And like many other coping mechanisms, hard to stop even if it's not working or necessary anymore.

Mainstream society is not something that I can live within, to do so requires alcohol and/or other things. For a long time, I didn't realize that there were other options, now I do.

I wish you luck on your journey.
 
Bud Rivera
Posts: 7
Location: Minnesota
4
  • Likes 6
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
A little daily reflection..

Today, I will be grateful for the freedom I am capable of claiming and, in fact, am claiming every day I work my program.
 
David Livingston
pollinator
Posts: 4328
Location: Anjou ,France
242
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Thanks for sharing Bud , I think in the future this thread can give hope to others seeking freedom
 
Bud Rivera
Posts: 7
Location: Minnesota
4
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
“Healing is learning to trust my own wisdom, my own intuition.”
—Mary Zink
 
bob day
pollinator
Posts: 735
Location: Central Virginia USA
56
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
There is an acronym in AA   GOD  standing for good orderly direction.

One of the biggest challenges at first was to give up all my intuition and recognize that I really didn't have a clue. The idea that my behavior defects might still be in charge and it might be necessary to take directions, leave it up to the Power Greater than Myself was a bit difficult, although critical

It's been a while since I regularly went to meetings, most of my life is like a hermit now anyway, and I find this discussion interesting, revitalizing,  looking at the thoughts being brought up, revisiting my older patterns, my recovery, (not yet finished, still a work in progress)

What they call "keeping it Green"

So thanks for the discussion, not so much because it will keep me from taking a drink - that's  not even going to happen , but more because it reminds me of a very special time in my life, indescribable, but definitely rejuvenating.




 
Bud Rivera
Posts: 7
Location: Minnesota
4
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
                     Finding Our Way

Today is a journey toward managing our illness, a journey toward acceptance of a Higher Power and of ourselves, a journey toward a better tomorrow.
Sometimes we will stumble and fall; at other times we will face little resistance. We will find opportunities for growth, acceptance, and change. If we remain patient and seek direction from our Higher Power, we will find our way.
Today, do I realize that life is a journey, and that each step helps me find my way to the next?
Thought for the Day
My journey is unique and sometimes unpredictable. Yet I will not lose my way if I stay open and pay attention.

             This inspiration is from
A Restful Mind: Daily Meditations for Enhancing Mental Health
 
pollinator
Posts: 1102
Location: Virginia USDA 7a/b
245
hugelkultur forest garden hunting chicken food preservation bee
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Bud,

I think Mollison and many of the people involved in Permaculture are looking to be invested in relationships. Relationships in nature mimic our own, there are some that are mutually beneficial, some toxic. We try to encourage the symbiotic beneficial interactions and limit the toxic ones- just like in life. Mollison was married five times, none of us reach perfection!

It is funny, I have never been formally in recovery, but I follow many of the same practices because my poison is pride. Same brokenness, different manifestation, same endpoint. "Sin when fully grown gives birth to death" James 1:15. It nearly ended my marriage and was turning me into a monster.

We are all in recovery from our "deep dark shit", those who don't admit it and seek help are still slaves to it. It is far better to embrace weakness and live in a community of support.
 
Bud Rivera
Posts: 7
Location: Minnesota
4
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
                      Naming Our Slavery

“Freedom is the right to choose; the right to create for yourself the alternatives of choice. Without the exercise of choice, a man is not a man but a member, an instrument, a thing.”
—Archibald MacLeish

Gaining personal freedom is no easy matter. Not that it’s impossible to achieve; rather, it’s all too possible, in our heart of hearts, not to really want authentic freedom.
One of the prices of freedom is the requirement that we name our slavery. How we dig in our heels when it’s time for such honesty! We dread it so much we may refuse to even attempt change, let alone accept a program of change and stick with it. But there is no other way. We can’t slip off the chains of slavery if we refuse to see where they are!
But however deep our habits or powerful our compulsions—there are others of us in the program who have had similar feelings. We are not the first or the worst. If we must begin by praying to want freedom, then that’s where we begin.


Today, I move toward greater freedom by looking with greater understanding on my fears.


This inspiration is from
Days of Healing, Days of Joy: Daily Meditations for Adult Children
 
John Weiland
pollinator
Posts: 1420
Location: RRV of da Nort
179
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Bud Rivera wrote:                       Naming Our Slavery
We can’t slip off the chains of slavery if we refuse to see where they are!
But however deep our habits or powerful our compulsions—there are others of us in the program who have had similar feelings. We are not the first or the worst. If we must begin by praying to **want** freedom, then that’s where we begin.

Today, I move toward greater freedom by looking with greater understanding on my fears.



I think this is a far more important concept than people realize, underscored by the asterisks added onto 'want'.  Slavery is an old and wide-ranging concept.  One of the worst sources can be slavery, witnessed and experienced, within the home.....it is where it becomes lived and breathed during the most impressionable period of one's life.  Absolutely important, as you noted,  to look with greater understanding on the source of those fears.....and look with greater compassion on where it has brought one in their adult life.  Kudos to your efforts and determination, Bud....
 
Bud Rivera
Posts: 7
Location: Minnesota
4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Merry Christmas...
 
Posts: 2
1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Bud, How is recovery for you?
 
You may have just won ten million dollars! Or, maybe a tiny ad.
Perennial Vegetables: How to Use Them to Save Time and Energy
https://permies.com/t/96921/Planting-Perennial-Vegetables-Homestead
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
Boost this thread!