Bless your Family,
Mike
Mathew Trotter wrote:
What variety are the cowpeas, do you know?
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Michael Moreken wrote:I guess beans, squash, potatoes, corn, rice, wheat (harder to process), etc. are staples
This attachment gives an ideal about what 10 feet of soil may give you.
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Mark Reed wrote:I've never measured it precisely but yield of pole beans is way higher than bush types in my garden. I would imagine that some single individual pole vines could by themselves beat a 10 foot row of bush, they just do it over the whole season instead of all at once.
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Hans Albert Quistorff, LMT projects on permies Hans Massage Qberry Farm magnet therapy gmail hquistorff
Hans Quistorff wrote:Reviewing the subject from the beginning I think it would be good to consider the crops and amount to feed animals that will add calories and nutrition to your diet.
Many people avoid wheat because of its modern history and historical abuse but in our costal climate winter wheat is a very reliable and calorie rich crop even in a small area. The experiment started with a friend planting a former horse paddock with winter wheat as a cover crop to be plowed in in the spring but the plowing never happened so it produced this huge crop of wheat. When the wheat was ripe I was offered the whole field to harvest with my scythe. I had spare barn space to just store it on the stalks. Each day I would throw an armload in the chicken tractor and they would peck the grain off and leave the straw for mulch. Some seed would get left and start the possesses over again. the wheat was providing me with eggs with very little extra work. A later experiment was to feed the chickens from a 25 pound bag of bird seed mix while they were working an area in the spring that I would not be using for summer garden. As a result I got a good crop of millet amaranth and sunflowers to feed them when the wheat was used up.
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Joseph Lofthouse wrote:I'm not interested in doing the counting, but in case anyone is, here is a photo. I estimate that about 1/4 of the seeds in a sunflower head are empty. (Those near the center, and near the outer edge.)
Bless your Family,
Mike
Mathew Trotter wrote:
Michael Moreken wrote:I guess beans, squash, potatoes, corn, rice, wheat (harder to process), etc. are staples
This attachment gives an ideal about what 10 feet of soil may give you.
That's a neat little chart, and confirms the numbers I have. Though, I have to say that I'm curious about why it lists bush beans as yielding higher than pole beans. I mean, I don't grow bush beans and can't confirm, but everything else I've seen says the exact opposite. This page from Cornell University says the yield for pole beans, in the same amount of space, will be 2-3 times higher than that of bush beans. Which just makes practical sense, since a pole bean is significantly larger than a bush bean.
Not that that it's a huge deal breaker in our context. The figures given for beans (and corn) are for fresh eating, not mature seeds for storing. The numbers will inevitably be different.
Bless your Family,
Mike
Michael Moreken wrote:
notice bush beans can be planted a lot closer.
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Mathew Trotter wrote:
Michael Moreken wrote:
notice bush beans can be planted a lot closer.
Yes, but notice that the Purdue article states that pole beans produce 2-3 times as much for the same amount of SPACE not the same amount of PLANTS. That's already taking into account that pole beans are larger and thus must be planted a little further apart.
It's hard to compare these numbers to the numbers I already have, since this is for green beans and not dry beans (I'm not sure how the weight of a green bean at the ideal picking stage compares to the weight of the mature seeds from the same pod, nor how much production you lose by allowing seeds to mature, which theoretically signals to the plant that it can stop producing.) If we assume that the figure given for bush beans was intended for pole beans and vice versa, that would result in a yield of 0.2-0.3 pounds per plant for the pole beans, for which the value I found of 0.25 pounds per plant for dry beans falls squarely in the middle. It's like comparing apples to oranges, but it seems to suggest the numbers were flipped.
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Medicinal herbs, kitchen herbs, perennial edibles and berries: https://mountainherbs.net/ grown in the Blue Mountains, Australia
Angelika Maier wrote:I believe that the total amount of calories is not of a great importance. The important thing are nutrients. While it is rather easy to grow starches, high valid proteins is a bit more complicated and if you want to grow high valuable fat you need to kill animals even if you don't like it. But it is very valuable to get self sufficient or more self sufficient because of the Great Reset planned.
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Mark Reed wrote:
I'll have to go back and find the Purdue article...
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Mathew Trotter wrote:
Michael Moreken wrote:I guess beans, squash, potatoes, corn, rice, wheat (harder to process), etc. are staples
This attachment gives an ideal about what 10 feet of soil may give you.
That's a neat little chart, and confirms the numbers I have. Though, I have to say that I'm curious about why it lists bush beans as yielding higher than pole beans. I mean, I don't grow bush beans and can't confirm, but everything else I've seen says the exact opposite. This page from Cornell University says the yield for pole beans, in the same amount of space, will be 2-3 times higher than that of bush beans. Which just makes practical sense, since a pole bean is significantly larger than a bush bean.
Not that that it's a huge deal breaker in our context. The figures given for beans (and corn) are for fresh eating, not mature seeds for storing. The numbers will inevitably be different.
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Greg Martin wrote:Matthew, are you considering adding a column in the calculator that would estimate the number of square feet needed to grow the number of plants that were calculated? Forgive me if I missed that somewhere.
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Tom Bolls wrote:I played with my copy today. It confirmed my fears, that's a lot of seed and crop to harvest preserve. The crop I find missing is onion. The big deal with onion is I eat the whole plant. It also is available to eat year round, just pick it when you need it. I looked it up and found it listed as 11cal / oz. Using the number 10# for a 10 ft row posted in this thread, that is only 1/6 of potatoes (20cal/oz*30#)calories but I can eat a lot more potato if there is onion toping on the potato. :)
Tom
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Mark Reed wrote:I haven't had time to really look the calculator over good. Wikipedia and other sources agree that calories in peanuts is 166 oz so 2656 per pound so that's pretty good I think. I can't find good numbers on yield per plant or yield per sq ft. One source said it could range from 5 to 10 pounds per 100 sq. ft. All of that depends so much on individual conditions but I think it might be low for my garden. I only had about 30 sq. ft. in my patch and got probably about 2 pounds, maybe a little less. If I give them a better spot protected better from rabbits I think they may do a lot better.
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Mark Reed wrote:5 hundredths of a pound per plant? You'd have to grow twenty plants for a full pound? I think that might be way low. I'll try to pay better attention and actually measure what I get next year. I'm gonna run up and get my copy of "Seed to Seed" and see if there is info about them cause I don't even know right if they cross or not.
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Mark Reed wrote:I was looking through some seed books today and suddenly remembered another new crop I want to try next year along with the amaranth and it is soybeans. They are a common farm crop around here so should do fine. I guess there is a lot of GMO in the commercial fields but they are a good ways from here. It's real hilly here where I live by the river but going north or west just 20 miles or so Indiana starts to flatten out. A quick peek at calories per comes up with some conflicting information but looks like roughly 3000 calories per pound. Unfortunately another crop that may not be much use to folks in the PNW.
Might also, just for fun, pick up some sorghum I used to grow it once in awhile just for decoration and because the birds like it. I doubt I could ever produce and process enough to really matter but I like sorghum molasses, I bet it has lots of calories. I'll stick it in the back garden and if it holds its own there give it more attention the next year.
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Bless your Family,
Mike
Mathew Trotter wrote:
Tom Bolls wrote:I played with my copy today. It confirmed my fears, that's a lot of seed and crop to harvest preserve. The crop I find missing is onion. The big deal with onion is I eat the whole plant. It also is available to eat year round, just pick it when you need it. I looked it up and found it listed as 11cal / oz. Using the number 10# for a 10 ft row posted in this thread, that is only 1/6 of potatoes (20cal/oz*30#)calories but I can eat a lot more potato if there is onion toping on the potato. :)
Tom
My initial reaction is to say that it doesn't meet the calorie requirements, and while they might also be grown, they aren't a significant enough quantity of calories to bother including. But you've made a convincing point about frequency of use. I could realistically eat an onion every day, and maybe even more (plus, they store well enough that I could.) If you had one medium onion every day at 44 calo
I think there are definitely some exceptions to the rule in the 180 calories/pound range. That's also about where winter squash flesh falls. While the squash is mostly justified because the seeds are such a power house, there are definitely things like onions that can justify their inclusion just because you can and probably do put them in almost everything.
Mark Reed wrote:The soy varieties I have picked out are advertised as being for edamame but I picked them mostly because they were shorter season. I don't see any reason why they can't just be allowed to fully mature and be used like any others. Although, it is another crop I have no idea how to use, maybe in soup like beans? I'll figure it out.
Michael Moreken wrote:One comment fast is add simple column for storage possibilities. unless all are storage capable? For example fava do poorly here? any plan to add Okra? Tomatoes, Rice, Wheat (hard to process), naked barley Nice spreadsheet, not sure I'll be growing 100%, but we can set new goals each year. To reach 100%.
I like one guys idea (Jerry?), no real rotation, annual rye grass, peas, beans, corn, peas, annual rye grass in small spot every year; I set a 25 foot squared to try idea; so guess the annual rye grass has special scrubbing potential?
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If we don't do the shopping, we won't have anything for dinner. And I've invited this tiny ad:
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