• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies living kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education experiences global resources the cider press projects digital market permies.com all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Nicole Alderman
  • raven ranson
  • Jocelyn Campbell
  • Julia Winter
stewards:
  • paul wheaton
  • Burra Maluca
  • Devaka Cooray
garden masters:
  • Anne Miller
  • Pearl Sutton
  • Joylynn Hardesty
  • Shawn Klassen-Koop
gardeners:
  • Joseph Lofthouse
  • Bill Crim
  • Mike Jay

Fruit Trees from Seed  RSS feed

 
Posts: 52
5
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I grew 3 starfruit trees from seed that was bought at a store. All trees were planted together in one spot. Didn't have the heart to kill any of them. Long story short they fruited in 4 years and every tree had fruit as good if not better than the original fruit.
 
Posts: 38
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi, Black Walnut most assuredly does not breed true if you are defining that by measurable qualities of the nut. I have hundreds of these lovely trees and the variations are incredible. Although one tree usually has all nuts the same size, between trees on nut size alone the variation is from marble-sized to two inches across. The trees themselves do look very much alike.
 
Posts: 150
13
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Baker creek has pawpaw seeds for sale now.  Rare seeds.com

Not an advertisement, I’m a loyal customer.
 
Posts: 629
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada
31
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Well, I can't seem to stop apple seedlings emerging from my vermicompost every spring. The first year I pulled them out and potted them but the voles ate them all the following winter. This winter I brought them into the garage where they remain frozen (we live in zone 3) and safe from critters.

I'm simply curious to see what becomes of them. If they turn out to be unfit for eating, cooking, or cider then they can be used to feed the wildlife. The bears around here love apples and I doubt they're picky.
 
Posts: 30
Location: Portugal, Zone 10A
forest garden homestead solar
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

r ranson wrote:This is what I do.

Plant seed.
Move tree from time to time, so that it ends up in the right spot. 
At about year three, it makes fruit (sometimes as late as year 5, but normally before).
If fruit yummy, leave tree alone to make yummy fruit.
If fruit not yummy, graft or bud tree, get yummy fruit next year.

Either way, it takes about the same amount of time as a nursery fruit tree (three to five years) to get a yummy harvest, only far less expensive and a tree that is far more resilient to my conditions.



Fabulous!! I love this way of farming! It's really refreshing and grounding to read this and be reminded of the simple ways of doing things 'right'. Thank you
 
Posts: 214
Location: Brendansport, Sagitta IV
11
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Terry Paul Calhoun wrote:Hi, Black Walnut most assuredly does not breed true if you are defining that by measurable qualities of the nut. I have hundreds of these lovely trees and the variations are incredible. Although one tree usually has all nuts the same size, between trees on nut size alone the variation is from marble-sized to two inches across. The trees themselves do look very much alike.


Mature black walnut next door ... from how it's mixed with assorted other trees and crammed up against a building, it's probably a volunteer, tho it's the only one I know of within a couple miles, so no idea where it could have come from. (Have found a couple of its offspring growing in undesirable squirrel-buried spots, but they didn't survive transplanting. What's with that weird swollen taproot?)

Last fall I harvested a bunch of fallen nuts, peeled and dried them, and...

They're slightly smaller than commercial walnuts, and are thin-shelled and crack easily with vise-grips. I thought you had to use a sledge-hammer on these things.

The meat is bitter. I thought black walnuts were supposed to be especially good, but these ain't.

Well, there's a fail...
 
Posts: 353
Location: SW PA USA zone 6a altitude 1188ft
4
trees
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
r Ranson said:

"They produce fruit in 2 to 5 years (so about 3 years old and up) depending on how enthusiastic the tree feels."

It's interesting to me that someone who actually plants seeds would disprove the generally accepted lie about seed grown trees taking 10 years to produce fruit. Or produce produce!! Your findings agree with the study by C. C. Vincent titled A Study of the results of crossing varieties of apples. In the study by ten years there were almost zero trees that produced their first fruit. The largest numbers were in the fourth, fifth and sixth years. To me this would indicate that it takes about the same time to produce fruit from a cloned graft as from seed, assuming you take into count the age of the seedling and the age of the rootstock it's grafted to.

But the main reason for my post is a thought that ocured to me and the questions this raises. I started a thread earlier this spring about a Rome apple seedling that I planted and had it bloom in less than a month from planting this bare root dwarf seedling. My studies showed that some species of fruit will bear earlier when planting seedlings than other varieties of the same fruit. So my question:

If I have a seed of one of these varieties where both parents are of the same fruit variety, in my case the Rome apple, will the seedling grown from this seed also produce fruit at a noticeably earlier age. In the study I linked to above there were a small number of seedlings, 4 I think, with the parentage of Rome x Rome. Both parents are Rome apples. But these 4 seedlings are never referred to again.

I think it would be interesting to do a full blown scholarly study of the basics of growing fruit trees from seeds. Something that might confirm the truths and the lies about the commonly perceived ideas about growing fruit from seed. In this thread I get the impression that if you grow apples from seed where the parents are both edible apples the offspring will in most cases also be an edible apple.In the study linked to above he shows that some attributes of apples are carried to the offspring. For instance size and color. There's some interest in which parent carries which trait. But what about the attribute of early fruiting? In what percentage will the offspring be similar to the parents if both parents are the same? I should point out that the Rome apple is one that is considered "self Pollinating". But what percentage of the offspring of a Rome X Rome cross be the same, or similar to the parents. I'm sure that there has been studies done, but it would seem likely that they'd be buried by an industry that needs you to buy grafted clones, or is only interested in a new apple for the per tree fees that generates.

I thank those of you who've responded and those who hopefully respond in the future.

 
pollinator
Posts: 1223
Location: northern northern california
88
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
in my experience, and rather unscientific method, or at least scatterbrained method, of observing...
the fruit coming from plants grown from seed tend to be very similar to the mother.

course i havent been growing apples. i am talking about peaches, plums, etc...

apples are a lot more gentically diverse to begin with...so possibly they could be most similar to the grandparents...or far back ancestors, depending on if they are F2 or F3 or whatever else...hybrids...
 
steward
Posts: 25399
Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)
bee chicken hugelkultur trees wofati woodworking
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
 
Posts: 25
Location: Queenstown, NZ
10
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

David Livingston wrote:"Growing fruit trees from seed is indeed a long term investment since it will be a minimum of 7 years from sprouting to first fruiting and more likely 10 years to a decent harvest quantity."



Peaches and apricots that I’ve grown from pits only took 4 years to fruit and this year, year 6 will yield a very “decent” harvest if the blossoms are anything to go by - providing the wind, frosts, birds or possums don’t put pay to the fruit.
832BF4E3-09B1-4950-8C18-48A26B3D0203.jpeg
[Thumbnail for 832BF4E3-09B1-4950-8C18-48A26B3D0203.jpeg]
Free stone blood peach on the left and apricot to the right
6CB6D679-E4FF-4A54-8395-F3CB12943DB2.jpeg
[Thumbnail for 6CB6D679-E4FF-4A54-8395-F3CB12943DB2.jpeg]
Peach blossoms
82CD61F4-1B3A-4C2E-BF0E-4D82FB0E1504.jpeg
[Thumbnail for 82CD61F4-1B3A-4C2E-BF0E-4D82FB0E1504.jpeg]
Apricots
A382E7CD-82D6-4701-9701-98D023913581.jpeg
[Thumbnail for A382E7CD-82D6-4701-9701-98D023913581.jpeg]
A fresh batch of peach seedlings
 
Shari Bee
Posts: 30
Location: Portugal, Zone 10A
forest garden homestead solar
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Great thread! I'm currently planting pretty much everything I buy and eat from the grocery store. I'm only just starting so can only comment on 'germination'. In several years from now I might be able to come back with tastings and hardiness!

Apples - planted Royal Gala, Pink Lady, Jazz, all from store bought seeds. No stratification, simply eat the apple and picked out the seed and put straight into small pots of soil (I too use the cut in half milk cartons). All three varieties have sprouted and are looking really healthy. The containers are clear plastic so I can see the root system too which also looks very strong. These grow to about one inch high within a couple of weeks. I'll be repotting - very carefully - into larger pots and/or planting out in this next month. To be honest, I've had so much luck with apple seeds I'm going to have to stop planting the seeds!! When choosing I read a little about cultivars to try and narrow it down. I picked these varieties based on the parents of each being yummy too! For example: Jazz is a cross of Royal Gala and Braeburn, Pink Lady is a cross of Lady Williams and Golden Delicious, Royal Gala is a cross of Kidd's Orange Red and Golden Delicious. Not sure if this is a valid way to choose, but I'll be equally happy if the trees grow up and all I can harvest is apple wood to smoke my fish with!

Peaches, plums, nectarines and apricots - I havent cold stratified any of these either. I simply crack GENTLY with a hammer to open the hard shell and get at the kernels. The kernels I then soak in water over night, sometimes for a couple of days, and then plant in pots again. These havent been as vigorous as the apple seeds, but some have started to poke their heads up.

I started caper from seeds ordered online, these took a while but have popped up.

Chestnuts, hazelnuts - having no luck with these yet, but have a bunch in compost.

Started Mango and Avocado from store bought seed. When choosing fruits at the store I read a little about the cultivars again and also tried to choose fruits that were grown in 'more relevant' locations. For example, on the Mango choice, I went for a Kiett mango that was grown in Israel, rather than a Palmer mango that was grown in Brazil. My thinking is that the Israel climate is more appropriate to my (Portugal) climate than the Brazilian climate. Anyhow, the Mango is doing really well - about 8 inches high at the moment, the Avocado (Hass from Morocco) is also doing really well - about 10 inches high. Both will be planted out (under temporary greenhouse cover this month). Again, if they fruit, then WONDERFUL, but I'm equally happy just to experiment and if the trees only produce wood, mango wood has a beautiful grain!

I have red grape seeds in that I plucked from a garden while out walking and they tasted lovely. One has poked its head up. I have bought Dragonfruit seed and Black Goji Berry seed that I will try also. I 'aquired' some Sumac seed which is in potting soil, but no joy yet...would really like the Sumac to take, lets see what happens!

I'm just about to try lime, orange, grapefruit and lemon after reading the success of citrus from seeds in this thread! Thank you all for the great info and insights.



 
gardener
Posts: 3637
Location: Cache Valley, zone 4b, Irrigated, 9" rain in badlands.
888
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
In the spring, I transplanted 1 year old apricot seedlings into my field. They were from 3 different mothers. A few days ago, we had a hard freeze. Today while weeding, I noticed that the leaves on the progeny of two of the varieties were killed by frost. The other variety was not harmed. I don't know that resistance to fall frosts is of any use in an apricot breeding project, but it was interesting to observe that there are differences between varieties.

My family has been engaged in a walnut breeding project for many decades. Today I harvested the first of the seeds that will be the beginning of the 4th generation.

 
pollinator
Posts: 373
Location: Redwood Country, Zone 9, 60" rain/yr,
24
dog duck hugelkultur
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I have not read all the replies to this post, but not seeing Sepp Holzer's approach mentioned yet at the end of the first page I'll toss it in:

Take some must (seeds and other biproducts of juice/cider/wine/brandy production) from your intended species, and plant them in your native soil en masse. Select heartlessly for vigor and like you would over seeded carrots and thin to the strongest (or otherwise physically preferable) individuals as the trees grow. If in 7yrs or so you do not like the fruit, you still have proven rootstock that you can graft over to a preferred variety. I cannot think of a faster or cheaper way to grow trees from seed with a virtually guaranteed return of some sort for your time and effort.
 
This will take every ounce of my mental strength! All for a tiny ad:
Thread Boost feature
https://permies.com/wiki/61482/Thread-Boost-feature
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
Boost this thread!