The short answer to your question is: Very likely not, especially considering what you wrote in that thread about your weeding strategy, I'd say your soil organic food web is going to take care of things for you, particularly as you progress with your system. I would probably say, tentatively that with permanent mulched beds, as you have, anybody will get consistently improving soil communities, and thus available nutrients, and will, as time goes on, need to think less and less about issues that people associate with crop rotation.Does no-digging chaos still need crop rotation?
There are schools of thought that have people clear out all the dead matter above the ground in the hopes that this will eliminate diseases or pests that overwinter in them. This, I believe, stems also from tillage agriculture where those stems would be tilled into the earth that fall or the next spring. This completely unnatural pattern, of mixing in or burying a bunch of dry carbon rich material into the soil creates more problems with the soil food web (as it attempts to re-establish after tilling), then if it were left on top high and dry, and then in the spring were broken down to mulch, or left to stand and were planted amongst as if they are part of the topography.I always read you need to rotate crops to minimize pests and diseases. This means the roots left in the ground would be harbouring them longer.
I don't know how to answer that if I didn't already know what sort of stuff you are doing already. I would say that in general, if you are planting brassicas all over the place, then you can continue to plant them all over the place, but only if you are also planting alliums all over the place, and cucurbits everywhere as well, and nightshades everywhere too, and beets and chard everywhere, and the carrot family everywhere and, and... well you get the picture... you are not going to get any harm by occasionally having a broccoli where you had a cabbage or kale the previous year.everything's jumbled, I can't know what was where a year before. Is crop rotation another practice some permies successfully ignore, or should I start practicing it like say brassicas to the west of my yard one year then the east of my yard the year later?
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."-Margaret Mead "The only thing worse than being blind, is having sight but no vision."-Helen Keller
This is true to a certain degree. I actually quite agree with it, but I would add that in a natural system (which is hugely complex and I don't assert to have a massive knowledge base in all the directions of it's intricacies), most plants will come into an area and they will be superseded by others in time. A weed has a certain job to do, whether it is producing biomass, or extracting a certain mineral or nutrient from the sub soil and bringing it up to the surface, and it will do this until it is done, or because it's own exudates had essentially 'poisoned' the ground for it's own species {but this happens over a long period of time, and only if conditions are such that succession to another plant species is not happening for some reasons}. Successional issue can happen in desertified areas where shrubs take over, but trees have difficulty re-sprouting or otherwise regenerating because certain mega fauna (which browse or trample the shrub biomass down into the soil) have been removed from the successional process, so the dead branches, or whole dead shrubs are left high and dessicated, going through a very slow oxidizing break down instead of one in which microbes and fungi play a larger role.I think we need to look at nature. In a natural system, an annual plant grows from seeds. Where do most of the seeds land? Immediately around the original plant, where they grow and flourish.
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."-Margaret Mead "The only thing worse than being blind, is having sight but no vision."-Helen Keller
I've seen birds land on them, as well as butterflies, bees, and dragonflies. Some animals will not land on the ground, but feel safe to do so on something raised above the ground. Also this gives a space for web spinning spiders to find a place in the garden. <--- {I know, considering the many extremely poisonous spiders in Australia that creating spider habitat might not be in your interest, though... }Leaving the withered stalks to stand for years is interesting.
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."-Margaret Mead "The only thing worse than being blind, is having sight but no vision."-Helen Keller
no harm at all, but that is not what the OP Tim is asking. He doesn't plant in mono blocks, but rather sporadic chaos, where crop rotation is functionally impossible, and in my view of things completely unnecessary.If you have the room to crop rotate then what harm could come from planting your beets here this year and over there next year.
I have a completely different understanding of what no till does.No till has nothing to do with varying what needs this crop has and what that crop adds to your soil.
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."-Margaret Mead "The only thing worse than being blind, is having sight but no vision."-Helen Keller
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."-Margaret Mead "The only thing worse than being blind, is having sight but no vision."-Helen Keller
Bingo. I think that you are observing the best of it, right there.i agree i also like to add leaving plants that get covered in aphids or bugs at the end of there season
where there are thousands on 1 plant and in a week or 2
the pedators insects come and you can see baby lady bugs and lacewings eggs everywhere and others i dont know
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."-Margaret Mead "The only thing worse than being blind, is having sight but no vision."-Helen Keller
SKIP books, get 'em while they're hot!!! Skills to Inherit Property
See me in a movie building a massive wood staircase:Low Tech Lab Movie
Cultivate abundance for people, plants and wildlife - Growing with Nature
SKIP books, get 'em while they're hot!!! Skills to Inherit Property
See me in a movie building a massive wood staircase:Low Tech Lab Movie
Daron Williams wrote:One area of polyculture I'm interested in is how to seed it. I tend to grow in polyculture but it is really just micro clumps of the same type mixed with other micro clumps. Do you mix a bunch of seeds together and broadcast? Or plant them individually? I also tend to have issues of the plants being way to crowded when I just broadcast them...
Tim Kivi wrote:
Overcrowding isn't a problem if the plants are compatible and you have luck on your side. Eg. My baby endive lettuce grows well with rocket/aragula, spinach and weeds in the same spot. The endive lettuce and weeds are low growing and need minimal light, spinach and rocket grow high above it, so there's no competition for light. I did it with no planning, just planted the seedlings next to each other.
But the combination in another spot doesn't work, which is why I say luck plays a role too.
Mike Jay wrote:I can see how poly planting works well with transplants. With seeds it seems like you need to deliberately seed them in spots or just wing them around and let a lot of them not thrive. But I'm sure many, many other folks have figured it out and are just snickering at me.
Cultivate abundance for people, plants and wildlife - Growing with Nature
Tim Kivi wrote:If it's overcrowded and they're not growing as a result, just pull them out gently and transplant them elsewhere! This is what happened when I transplanted my excess baby endive seedlings to a new spot and they grew up
![]()
Growing fro seed in situ works well if you cut all your plants down at the same time so that the seeds have enough light to grow. If you have mulch and tall plants already they won't get enough light to grow up. All the photos I posted are of seedlings planted on completely bare soil a few months ago.
Cultivate abundance for people, plants and wildlife - Growing with Nature
So in this case, I figure that what you need to do is focus on seed production first, so that you can put a volume of seed out there. That is really a big portion of the ticket when it comes to broadcasting. I went to a Permablitz 4 and a bit years ago at the Darfield Earthship, which was being guided by two permaculture teachers, including Javan Bernakevitch, who studied with Sepp Holzer. In that workshop he focused on putting out volumes of seed, which in that case he and the other instructor Gord of Element Eco Design, had been given a lot of old seed from seed companies in B.C.. The crops and seeds were broadcast over a large hugulkultur we built, but the seeds were also patted in or pressed in with finger tips. Then the whole surface was covered to about 50% with straw, to hold the soil and moisture in place until the young plants could stabilize the system.But I'm wanting to be lazy and just broadcast seeds and not have to deal with transplanting
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."-Margaret Mead "The only thing worse than being blind, is having sight but no vision."-Helen Keller
Iterations are fine, we don't have to be perfect
My 2nd Location:Florida HardinessZone:10 AHS:10 GDD:8500 Rainfall:2in/mth winter, 8in/mth summer, Soil:Sand pH8 Flat
https://coststudyfiles.ucdavis.edu/uploads/cs_public/de/5b/de5b047e-efb5-4145-b618-1c643240abe9/walnutsv2012.pdfUC Davis wrote:Yields. Annual yields for walnut varieties are measured as clean, dry, in-shell pounds per acre. The average yield over the remaining life of the orchard is assumed to be 5,400 pounds per acre.
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."-Margaret Mead "The only thing worse than being blind, is having sight but no vision."-Helen Keller
Hustle until your haters ask if you’re hiring --tiny ad
Support permies and give beautiful gifts to gardeners: permaculture playing cards.
https://gardener-gift.com/
|