A new chestnut custom, and 600 ways to grow a 600-year chestnut tree

In Corsica for many years the ruler required everyone to plant four trees a year, an olive, a mulberry, a fig, and a chestnut.  

Mark Tudor wrote:This year I've planted a guava, fig, peach, avocado, nectarine, and pomegranate in my zone 11(?) back yard, and will be filling in all the spaces with shrubs and perennials as I build up a nice thick layer of mulch to hold in the 3-4 inches of rainfall we get here. I expect it will be nice and lush by the time I retire and move 1300 miles north haha!

Also planted (on a larger zone 6 property) a row of 600 osage orange seeds as a test hedge, another couple hundred using the spray and pray method, and several hundred black locust in a grid layout for a future coppice woodlot, as well as around the property to become specimen trees and construction timber.

If the deer infestation hasn't eaten everything, I plan to keep adding to the hedge, and enclose 2-3 acres so that I can start a fruit and nut "mini orchard" which will also include perennial veggies and annual beds. Outside that I plan to start planting a wide range of trees, shrubs, and ground covers/vines that do well in zone 6 with 15-20 inches of rain and 4 feet of snow per year, and try to turn those 20 acres into something more than yet another soft wood timber lot.

For the first time in my life, I have a plan of sorts in place and the property to start working on that plan, before I even move there! So on the plus side, getting infrastructure growing before day 1 will be great for stepping into something more than a blank slate. On the minus side, it's a big unknown moving to a new place and hoping the locals decide you're a friend and not an enemy!

Finding others to answer the call of land management to preserve the land as you develop it can be tough. Finding younger people to visit for a while to help is one thing, it's another deal entirely to find younger people who have experienced enough of life and the world to know what they want out of it to be happy, and for that to be managing and preserving a permaculture legacy someone else has started.

However, on the trees of the indigenous varieties of Castanea sativa which existed in the immediate vicinity of the oriental chestnut plantation there was no sign of the blight except in the case of one tree which, although infected, evidenced a high degree of resistance to the disease. This fact was so surprising that the Spanish scientists were doubtful whether it really was an infection of Endothia parasitica. On the occasion of another trip made during the fall of 1947, under the auspices of FAO, Professors Biraghi and Pavari confirmed not only the complete absence of infection on the Castanea sativa but also succeeded in gathering material from which Professor Biraghi has isolated the parasite in pure culture and has found its identity to be the same as that present in Italy. Its pathogenicity is being tested on chestnuts in Italy, and Professor Biraghi has arranged with the Forest Research Institute of Madrid for the inoculation in Spain of the Spanish Castanea sativa with both the Italian and Spanish strains of Endothia parasitica.

Joshua Myrvaagnes wrote:
Imagine if we planted those! imagine if we left such a legacy for our great great great great etc. grandchildren!

But how do you do something that requires people who haven't even been born yet to agree to it, to agree never to cut them down, to take care of the ecosystem enough that it's not all for nothing...?

Mike Barkley wrote:http://www.empirechestnut.com/catalog.htm#seed

That seems to be a decent commercial source for several Chestnut varieties.

What appears to be the Chinkapin variety is dropping nuts all over my place right now. Have quite a few very large trees. I'll try to start some seedlings & make them available for all next year. After I plant the best one:)

Going to finally roast some chestnuts over an open fire this year!!! A holiday goose seems appropriate too. 'Cuz I can:)

Gave thread another apple because this is a great permie sort of project that needs to be done by everyone in suitable U.S. climates. It's an important tree.

Michael Cox wrote:

Joshua Myrvaagnes wrote:
Imagine if we planted those! imagine if we left such a legacy for our great great great great etc. grandchildren!

But how do you do something that requires people who haven't even been born yet to agree to it, to agree never to cut them down, to take care of the ecosystem enough that it's not all for nothing...?

The whole principle of this grates at me. What right do we have to impose our views on subsequent generations? Even when those views are essentially benign? Look back 100 years. How happy would you be if you were forced to abide by decisions your great-great-grandparents made? How could they possibly be relevant to our world and society now, which has changed so much in the past 20 year alone? They couldn't have foreseen climate change as a problem, and they certainly wouldn't have foreseen the accelerating rise of renewable energy in response to it. They couldn't have possibly foreseen the technological revolution, and all the implications that would have on jobs, life, society etc...

So what are we being similarly blind to when we try to make binding decisions for future generations 100s of years from now? What burdens are we inadvertently passing on to them?

Now, I'm not a defeatist - in fact I'm very optimistic about the future of the world and the environment - but I firmly believe that we should focus on the the now. Both the people living now, and the land we have now - and let our successors take charge of the continuing management. Does that mean there will be mis-steps? Trees cut down that we would prefer to remain etc... ? Food forest systems grubbed up to build houses? Of course it does. However the overwhelming trend of the past 50 years has been positive.

By all means plant your tree. By all means try and encourage others to support your endeavour. But leave my children, and my children's children the freedom to make their own decision.

As someone who has had to deal with a property purchase tied up in restrictive covenants, I would never impose such binding conditions on the future inheritors of my work. (Binding conditions - a property own 80 years ago by Methodists, that came with the covenant that no alcohol was to be stored or consumed on the premises. Methodists were long gone, but their restrictions still tied up the building).

In Corsica for many years the ruler required everyone to plant four trees a year, an olive, a mulberry, a fig, and a chestnut.

Mike Barkley wrote:

In Corsica for many years the ruler required everyone to plant four trees a year, an olive, a mulberry, a fig, and a chestnut.

I too strongly disagreed with the word require the instant I read it. It's still a great idea & nobody is requiring anyone to do anything in this particular case.

Michael Cox wrote:An interesting observation about chestnuts:

In my climate they are an excellent timber tree, but are not so good as a nut tree. We are right on the edge of their range for reliable fruiting. Many years you can go into the woods and find millions of the chestnut husks and not a single nut worth dealing with. My understanding is that they need a longer warm season than we tend to get here, which makes sense as they originated in the Mediterranean area.

Michael Cox wrote:

Joshua Myrvaagnes wrote:
Imagine if we planted those! imagine if we left such a legacy for our great great great great etc. grandchildren!

But how do you do something that requires people who haven't even been born yet to agree to it, to agree never to cut them down, to take care of the ecosystem enough that it's not all for nothing...?

The whole principle of this grates at me. What right do we have to impose our views on subsequent generations? Even when those views are essentially benign? Look back 100 years. How happy would you be if you were forced to abide by decisions your great-great-grandparents made? How could they possibly be relevant to our world and society now, which has changed so much in the past 20 year alone? They couldn't have foreseen climate change as a problem, and they certainly wouldn't have foreseen the accelerating rise of renewable energy in response to it. They couldn't have possibly foreseen the technological revolution, and all the implications that would have on jobs, life, society etc...

So what are we being similarly blind to when we try to make binding decisions for future generations 100s of years from now? What burdens are we inadvertently passing on to them?

Now, I'm not a defeatist - in fact I'm very optimistic about the future of the world and the environment - but I firmly believe that we should focus on the the now. Both the people living now, and the land we have now - and let our successors take charge of the continuing management. Does that mean there will be mis-steps? Trees cut down that we would prefer to remain etc... ? Food forest systems grubbed up to build houses? Of course it does. However the overwhelming trend of the past 50 years has been positive.

By all means plant your tree. By all means try and encourage others to support your endeavour. But leave my children, and my children's children the freedom to make their own decision.

As someone who has had to deal with a property purchase tied up in restrictive covenants, I would never impose such binding conditions on the future inheritors of my work. (Binding conditions - a property own 80 years ago by Methodists, that came with the covenant that no alcohol was to be stored or consumed on the premises. Methodists were long gone, but their restrictions still tied up the building).

Mike Barkley wrote:

In Corsica for many years the ruler required everyone to plant four trees a year, an olive, a mulberry, a fig, and a chestnut.  

I like they way they thought.

I'm in. It so happens some beautiful old chestnut trees are dying on this property. No problem replacing them & several times more. Have been working on figs too. Trying to get a more winter hardy version thriving. Have to pass on olives. Will plant apples & other fruit that will do better. Mulberry? Maybe. Have elderberry, and wild blackberry & raspberry going now. A few other random berries. Not sure how mulberry would do here. It's been on the radar though.

Not exactly a new idea but a suitable modification of an old one. The Appalachian Trail has trail angels. Good hearted folks who suddenly appear along the trail. They provide drinks, food, & a helpful hand for weary hikers. If there was a large supply of young trees available something like that could happen in local parks & recreation areas. Seems like the users of those places would be most likely to plant a free tree.


If you want to find a source for young trees at an affordable price, Cold Stream Farms, sells bare root trees with the price depending on size and quantity. Buying more reduces the price. One example, a single 6"-12" tree costs $4.57, but buying 4 of them brings the price down to $2.76 each. Buy 25 trees and the price is $1.21 each. Other sizes available, price reductions for lots of 100 and 500+. It's cheaper to buy 100 than 65, or to buy 25 trees than 12, make a commitment for 500. I plan to order 25 trees, plant 8 in the ground and raise the other 15 in pots with the plan to give them as Easter gifts in 2020.

4 And a new custom: every year in National Chestnut Week (US) or October or thereabouts (March if you're south of the equator...), give everyone you love a chestnut and a flower.  A flower for beauty today, a chestnut for beauty in 500 years.