• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education skip experiences global resources cider press projects digital market permies.com pie forums private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Nancy Reading
  • Carla Burke
  • r ranson
  • John F Dean
  • paul wheaton
  • Pearl Sutton
stewards:
  • Jay Angler
  • Liv Smith
  • Leigh Tate
master gardeners:
  • Christopher Weeks
  • Timothy Norton
gardeners:
  • thomas rubino
  • Jeremy VanGelder
  • Maieshe Ljin

Tiny City Staircase Bed Plant Suggestions

 
Posts: 15
Location: NYC
3
purity urban food preservation
  • Likes 7
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hey all,

Checkout this city staircase bed in North Eastern US zone 7b!

There's an identical one on the other side.

One bed gets afternoon sun. One gets no direct sun. They are 10" x 32" (25 x 80cm)

They've been neglected and I'd like to give them some love. As you can see there have been some volunteers.

Do you have suggestions of "useful" perennials that would be happy to fill the space every year? By useful I mean to me as food or medicine or to insects. Not required, but bonus points if it's ornamental to city people. I'm curious if perennials herbs like rosemary or oregano would be happy in a tiny space like that, maybe if they have nitrogen fixer friends like clover?

Thanks,
Chris


staircase_bed.jpg
planting in city pavement bed
 
pollinator
Posts: 5347
Location: Bendigo , Australia
477
plumbing earthworks bee building homestead greening the desert
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Rainforest plants on the Dark side?
 
steward and tree herder
Posts: 8385
Location: Isle of Skye, Scotland. Nearly 70 inches rain a year
3974
4
transportation dog forest garden foraging trees books food preservation woodworking wood heat rocket stoves ungarbage
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Rosemary is a mediterranean plant, so may struggle in your climate. Saying that, it depends on how well drained it is and whether the sunny side may be a favourable microclimate due to heat soak from the bricks. There are some varieties that are slightly more hardy that are more likely to be successful.
I'm thinking a shrub like Chaenomeles japonica (flowering quince) might be a good suggestion for the sunny side. They are pretty hardy, have beautiful blossom and fruit that makes good jellies and cordial (a lemon like flavour).
Japanese quince fruit

source

Pfaf suggests that chaenomeles will grow in full shade too. I suspect that woodland plants may be successful there on the shady side too. Daylily (Hemerocalis) may be another possibility - edible leaves and flowers.
 
Posts: 56
18
dog trees ungarbage
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I live in coastal California. When it is dry and hot - it is. I've had property here. The sun is bright 100+ degrees, then down pour - that is before climate change.

Rosemary is so easy to grow here. You even take a sprig, break and soften tough clay soil, push in 2 ", water a few days a bit and it takes off. Same for any succulent, (wich I realize rosemary is not a succulent.)

Is this a uniquely California climate thing?

Anyway, it did the same in the shade but was never over moist.

Peace,
Joanna
 
steward
Posts: 12433
Location: Pacific Wet Coast
6996
duck books chicken cooking food preservation ungarbage
  • Likes 6
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Will the shady side get some sun if it grows higher than the steps?

Does the plant need to stay inside the foot print of the bed?

Some mints might do well. You could have a collection of home teas - apple mint, lemon balm, chocolate mint, etc.

Hostas cope with shade and some are tasty.
 
Mar Viega
Posts: 56
18
dog trees ungarbage
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I'm sorry I misunderstood the situation and answered opposite of the subject.

Would you have permission to build up the atea, or more easily -  use a  very big pot to fill with soil and raise the plant to the stair platform level?

Joanna
 
steward
Posts: 16058
Location: USDA Zone 8a
4272
dog hunting food preservation cooking bee greening the desert
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
As others have suggested, my first thought was that looks like a place for a rosemary plant.

I would also like to suggest Hostas since it says that it gets no direct sun.

Hostas are beautiful and edible.
 
Posts: 521
Location: Iqaluit, Nunavut zone 0 / Mont Sainte-Marie, QC zone 4a
90
2
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Chayote, Cucurbitaceae, is supposed to be hardy to zone 7 and is a short lived perennial vining edible that has the consistency of a hard pear, and tastes like a mild cucumber. I would think it would like a double dig prepared bed, and given plenty of water, trained towards the sun. These things can climb really high!
 
Posts: 447
Location: Indiana
58
5
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Chris Khunda wrote:
Do you have suggestions of "useful" perennials that would be happy to fill the space every year? By useful I mean to me as food or medicine or to insects.



That looks like an ideal space for a bunch of Herb plants, maybe not perennial though.
Or something like Aloe Vera.
And, of course there are always Cactus plants.
 
gardener
Posts: 3234
Location: Western Slope Colorado.
656
4
goat dog food preservation medical herbs solar greening the desert
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I was also thinking of herbs, especially holy basil (tea plant) (strictly Medicinal for seeds). Some are perennial, and they are willing re-seeders.

There on the doorstep fragrant plants are so lovely.

Culinary basil if it’s convenient to your cooking space.

My first thought was curly parsley.  It’s a biennial.  Flowers in second year and tiny parasitic wasps love it.  It re-seeds though it is slow to germinate, three weeks i think.  And it makes a pretty filler under what ever perennials you choose.

Pansies and snap dragons are short life perennials.

Echinacea and cone flower can stand heat .

Goji berries are very willing to grow and spread.  They are a kind of ragged rough shrub but probably could be pruned hard.

Amaryllis, the naked lady type might be fun.  Some of the time there nothing there, then prolific strap shaped green leaves, then from nothing a flowering stalk rises up.

There are shrub St. John’s wort with very showy flowers.

Violets

Sounds like a fun project!
 
pollinator
Posts: 132
Location: Schofields, NSW. Australia. Zone 9-11 Temperate to Sub Tropical
72
forest garden fungi books medical herbs bee seed
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I agree with Ra, chayote or choko likes it's feet in shade but would climb up the bannister rails towards the sun and provide edible fruits. Even if it got too cold, the vine dies back over winter if mulched well and will regrow in spring as soil temperatures rise. Also coriander, I find, will grow in shade quite happily in spring and autumn, it likes between seasons best, and doesn't like hot sun, so the shaded area would be fine. Mints also prefer shade and/or morning sun. but need more water than other herbs.
 
Posts: 168
Location: SF bay area zone 10a
52
2
forest garden fungi trees foraging fiber arts medical herbs
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Given your eastern location and your sunless area, I would go for medicinals from the eastern forest floor, such as golden seal, ginseng, wintergreen, black cohosh, blue cohosh, bloodroot, trillium...
There may be some edibles, too. Ramps are all I can think of right away.
I really only know the droughty western biome, and we here envy you the ability to grow these traditional medicines.
I looked on the web for shade herbs, and most of them are really partial-sun herbs.
You could turn it into a mushroom bed.
 
pollinator
Posts: 192
120
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Ellen Lewis wrote:Given your eastern location and your sunless area, I would go for medicinals from the eastern forest floor, such as golden seal, ginseng, wintergreen, black cohosh, blue cohosh, bloodroot, trillium...
There may be some edibles, too. Ramps are all I can think of right away.
I looked on the web for shade herbs, and most of them are really partial-sun herbs.
You could turn it into a mushroom bed.



I concur with the idea of growing shade-lovers, and I love the idea of growing things like goldenseal, but most of the ones mentioned are considered very difficult to grow, in part because they depend on an intact forest-floor ecosystem, which you would not be able to provide.

On the bright side, though, I would consider anything that has open sky above it to be "bright shade"----especially in regions where there are often clouds and humidity, which breaks up the light and makes it much less directional. Ironically, the shadows in the sunny West are darker, than they are further east, even as our sunlit areas are brighter. This effect is especially extreme in the rainforest areas of Alaska, where the overcast is so heavy that shadows don't really exist at all--all light is diffuse.

The point of that digression was that if nothing is overhead, you probably have enough sun for partial-shade plants. If you can have a small shrub rather than something herbaceous, I would suggest red currant. It's hardy to zone 5, and bears well in partial shade. You could espalier it to the brick if you wanted to. The root system is shallow, and as long as the site has decent drainage (no standing water) it should do well. Another possiblity is Caucasian Spinach Vine (Hablitzia) which is shade-loving, edible, and extremely hardy.

UNLESS--and this is a big unless--there is salt or other de-icing chemical used on the sidewalk and steps. That will kill most broadleaf plants in short order. If that is the case, asparagus would probably survive, but I for one wouldn't want to eat it from such a source. A fruit  with no soil contact and the detox capability of the plant protecting would be safer than sprouts that have to come up through polluted soil.  
I think you should consider seaside plants--beach pea, beach plum, beach cherry. And rugosa roses, which are an introduced plant (from Japan) that has naturalized on the beaches in New England. It has the largest rose hip of any rose species. Most seaside plants like some sun, but they are worth a try.
 
Posts: 3
  • Likes 4 Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Time to get out and look around the neighborhood for stuff growing in a similar micro climate or go to a plant nursery and ask. ....With your  voice ... like a human who really doesnt like to type ...Do some good old eye to eye with people who love to talk about their plants.  
 Is it still winter there ? Remember the sun will get higher and  stuff is not dead, just sleeping .
    Check the depth of beds. If shallow,  add two  big  beautiful pots with big drainage holes to set on top of soil.. that will protect  base of plant from being trampled and lift the other side into the sun.
You are now on a mission that will make you feel  human . Good luck.
Content minimized. Click to view
 
Posts: 26
11
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Nettle on the shady side provides both food and medicine as would comfrey on the sunny side. Comfrey is also often planted under fruit trees so maybe you can get a small clementine tree going on the sunny side. I didn't see if you are in a citrus-friendly climate.

Perennial medicinal plants include: motherwort, nettle, comfrey, yarrow, artemisias of all types, feverfew.

Perennial food plants include: strawberries, other berries, land cress/wintercress, nettle, dandelion, sunchokes.
 
Jay Angler
steward
Posts: 12433
Location: Pacific Wet Coast
6996
duck books chicken cooking food preservation ungarbage
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Allison Dey wrote:Nettle on the shady side provides both food and medicine...

I wouldn't put nettle beside a set of steps - there's risk unsuspecting visitors would get too close. Yes, it won't kill them and they'd learn fast to recognize it, but in my books it wouldn't be "polite".

That said, if the OP does have a spot to safely plant nettle, it make awesome pesto!
 
master pollinator
Posts: 320
Location: Southern Manitoba...bald(ish) prairie, zone 3ish
133
transportation hugelkultur monies forest garden urban books food preservation cooking writing woodworking
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
My first question would be about the depth of the soil.  Is it just the depth of the brick to the lower asphalt/concrete?  Even if there is nothing blocking it, it may not be that nice lower down considering the location, so could be post-construction fill type of stuff.

Not knowing what grows well in your zone adds to the challenge....

With that in mind, I'm not sure how well a shrub would do, although gooseberries do well in shadier spots.  I'd think something like time would be nice - as a low groundcover, it wouldn't be intrusive, has culinary use, and if allowed to flower, supports pollinators and adds beauty.

I guess one question would be what would you like / what do you use / cook with / sort of thing.  Growing something that doesn't provide value to you simply because a Permie suggested it may not be advisable.

How much do the handrails get used?  If not regularly, I'd consider vining plants that could grow up or be trained on the decorative metal.  I think it wants full sun, but something like hardy kiwi would be different and potentially useful.  We don't have a lot of hardy vines (aside from native grapes) that do well in our neck of the woods, so I'm not terribly familiar in what might work well for you.

Good luck.
 
Posts: 107
Location: Cache Valley, Northern Utah (zone 6a, 4,900 elevation)
61
goat duck forest garden foraging trees rabbit food preservation medical herbs writing homestead ungarbage
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Questions:
 How much space can the suggested plant(s) take up, both vertically and in width?
 How deep is the soil in this mini-bed?
 Do cars park adjacent (where petro-fuel exhaust might rule out edible choices)?
 What is the budget?
 Do you want the plant(s) to have a specific purpose for you or your neighborhood (edible, medicinal, dye, ornamental)?

I might not suggest an insectary plant as we might not wish to draw bees/wasps near doorway where folks who might be fearful are traipsing.

I might not suggest a vining plant—though it is SO SO tempting—simply because landlord or street maintenance folks may assume the plant is invasive or unsightly and remove it.

I'd be tempted to stack a few plant "layers" rather than a single choice:
1. A handful of bulbs: narcissus (double white) or tulips to provide a cheery harbinger of early spring. Be sure to choose a fragrant variety! These will bloom longer being out of direct sunlight. Did you know tulip flower petals are edible? NB: narcissus are NOT edible.
2. Keeping on the flower theme, a low carpet of perennial Silene vulgaris (sculpit, Bladder Campion), with its lovely balloon blossoms (and yummy greens early spring and again in fall). Drought tolerant when established, tolerates a bit of shade.
3. Something a bit taller for the heat of summer when the sculpit dies back, maybe hollyhocks (if not oversized), somewhat edible (many parts of the plant) but pick the spent blossoms for dye! https://www.grandprismaticseed.com/dye-plants/double-black-hollyhock has details on using this for dye. It does ok in part shade; does need watered...an excuse for you to visit & admire it with watering can in hand.

To get started, you might find folks here on permies have seeds to share or barter!
And once your plants are established, you could collect the seeds of #2 and #3 to share with passersby in the neighborhood to build community.
Screen-Shot-2024-02-20-at-12.26.46-PM.png
Tulip: many fragrant, double flowered varieties to choose from
Tulip: many fragrant, double flowered varieties to choose from
Screen-Shot-2024-02-20-at-12.13.04-PM.png
Hollyhock, Double Black, showing the plants upright habit (photo from Grand Prismatic Seed)
Hollyhock, Double Black, showing the plants upright habit (photo from Grand Prismatic Seed)
Screen-Shot-2024-02-20-at-12.12.00-PM.png
Hollyhock, Double Black, blossom (photo from Grand Prismatic Seed)
Hollyhock, Double Black, blossom (photo from Grand Prismatic Seed)
Screen-Shot-2024-02-20-at-12.10.38-PM.png
Silene vulgaris - pink blush will complement the brick
Silene vulgaris - pink blush will complement the brick
 
look! it's a bird! it's a plane! It's .... a teeny tiny ad
turnkey permaculture paradise for zero monies
https://permies.com/t/267198/turnkey-permaculture-paradise-monies
reply
    Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic