Water stain on ceiling—oh my!

Hello everyone,

The last two days we have had a lot of wind and rain.  This morning my wife spotted a new water stain on the ceiling of a mudroom adjacent to the garage.  I was able to reach up and it was indeed damp. Obviously we are concerned about roof problems.

The mud room is near the center of the house along the shortest axis, but fairly central along the longest axis.  

I thought for a while and it occurred to me that perhaps the wind blew the rain up and under the ridge vent and that it how the water made its way in.

I would love to hear others thoughts.  And before anyone asks, the roof was replaced in 2009 with a 25 year shingle.



Thanks in advance,


Eric

I would get up on the roof and look for missing shingles.

Eric said, I thought for a while and it occurred to me that perhaps the wind blew the rain up and under the ridge vent and that it how the water made its way in.

That is possible though I feel the water stain was caused by more water than that.

Where the water enters, and where the drip collects can be different, although ruled by gravity and surface tension.

Even going up into the attic will only be a help, not a guarantee if my sister's attic was any example.

The shingles "age" is no guarantee against either installation errors, or sealant drying out  in places.

I've also been told that getting 15-20 years out of 25 year  shingles is a good score. Solar and storm damage are increasing fast and quality control is decreasing.

I would get up into the attic right away to spot leak and/or drip points.  You have to know where the problem is before it dries out.

Do you have any plumbing in the attic? Header tank - that sort of thing?

I know this isn’t what you want to hear, but you could be in for a long ride.  Water can do strange things as it runs along inside your roof. And yes, begin searching now.  IF there is a reputable roofer in the area, you may want to check with them.  The problem is good roofers generally  have lots of business and don’t want to waste their time hunting a leak.

At a minimum, do look for missing shingles as Anne suggested. Also, do get inside your attic, as Douglas suggested, to check for the drip hitting your ceiling….this is not necessarily the origin of the leak….and it us not necessarily where the water is pooling above your ceiling. A bucket temporarily placed to catch the water ..and emptied regularity..is not a fix, but it can limit more severe ceiling damage until a repair is done. .. The difference between replacing drywall and just sealing and painting.  Oh yes, make certain the bucket is well supported.  Having a heavy bucket of water fall through a soft spot in the ceiling can ruin your day.

Oh yes, my wife just told me it looks like we are in for 2 more weeks of rain.

….quick thought …how old is your house?  Maybe contact the builder?  Maybe contact your insurance agent?

John,

House is 21 years old—contractor went bankrupt long ago.  Figures.  I have thought about contacting my insurance.

So the location of the stain actually kinda localizes where it could come from but I will try to get a look tomorrow.  

It seems like the water came from where one roof section drains onto another.  The two sections are perpendicular to each other.  My guess is that the water drained just as wind was blowing hard which pushed it backwards, up into the ridge cap.

But I will see what it looks like tomorrow.



Eric

Well, I found the problem and it was plain as day.  The vents for the toilets never got fully enclosed by shingles.  When I got the roof replaced in 2009, I found out in the breach that the actual contractors were a fly-by-night operation.  As they were finishing, they had a big, blue tarp on the edges of the roof to collect nails.  But then instead of actually carefully picking them up and dumping in the dumpster just feet, they dumped them in the grass directly under the roof edge!  I wanted to yell at them, but that would have been useless, they spoke no English.  Their truck was registered in Tennessee and the trailer in Minnesota.  They were long gone the day after dumping nails (I told the main contractor, a reputable person, but those roofers were gone).  And since it was a mass-damage event, it was a sort of take anyone you can.

Obviously I am going to have to see about getting that shingling replaced and maybe check underneath,  Honestly, it’s amazing it has taken this long for a problem.  But I imagine that 17 years of wind, Sun, snow , ice have finally beaten up any sealing that was done (haphazardly) back in 2009.



Eric

That vent flashing doesn’t look bad—I have seen a lot worse.  Could be the problem, but I would look elsewhere as well.

I would get in the attic with a good flashlight and a roll of toilet paper.  Look for any water trails or wet nails, you can use a piece of TP to confirm it’s wet.

You say an upper roof drops onto that roof, is there a roof to wall joint there?  Those joints are notoriously bad for re roofs because to do them right you need to remove the siding.

I knew a person who had a very expensive and very high quality custom house built in the mountains. He was very impressed that after a particularly bad storm, just a little bit of water had trickled in, I think on one of the walls. My point is, it seems that if there is enough rain and wind together, even an amazingly well built house can show a bit of water intrusion. He never saw it again. Maybe your situation is just a one-off as well, especially if there was higher wind involved with the rain.

Annie Collins wrote:My point is, it seems that if there is enough rain and wind together, even an amazingly well built house can show a bit of water intrusion. He never saw it again. Maybe your situation is just a one-off as well, especially if there was higher wind involved with the rain.

They say on Skye that all houses leak, it's just some are worse than others....

That ridge line looks odd to me. Why are the ridge tiles doubled up at one end?

I am with R Scott.   To be clear about my insurance comment, I have found my insurance agent to be the best source for a quality contractor referral.  Given the age of your roof, your least frustrating approach may well be to get the shingles replaced.  You already know this, but have a serious talk with your wife and contractor about durability vs your age price. If you do replace your roof, let the insurance know. There can be serious reductions in insurance costs.

That vent boot was done correctly. The seal around the pipe could have leaked or wind driven rain could have blown up under the shingles over the boot flashing. I'd get a tube of asphalt crack sealer and run a bead at the edge of the shingles over the metal boot flashing and also cover the 2 nails visible on the boot. Unless the seal around the vent PVC failed, I am not entirely sure that is your culprit.

Nancy Reading wrote:...That ridge line looks odd to me. Why are the ridge tiles doubled up at one end?

It looks like a ridge vent to me. They are becoming more common. A plastic piece is inserted and lifts up the ridge shingles to allow hot air to escape out that way. Could certainly be a water entry point too with wind.

Metal roof going on now?

Regarding the roof peak:  yes, that is the ridge vent.  It allows hot air to escape from the highest point in the attic.  In the United States this has been standard building practice for the past 30ish years.  Prior to the ridge vent, there would be a vent cut into the side of the wall of the attic or one of those spinning spheres if there was no wall section.

Today I am going to make some phone calls and get up into the attic.  But the water spots are all located directly under the toilet vents (there are two stains, each under a vent pipe).

Thanks for the input.  I will post updates and by all means, feel free to continue to offer your thoughts,



Eric

Best case scenario, this may be a simple caulking issue.

Update:  As I expected, the water basically came straight down the vent pipe.


It looks like the boot that should seal the pipe to the roof was splitting on both of the suspected vent pipes.  But there is hail damage that I had not noticed previously.  It basically means a roof replacement is in the works.  The good news is that it might be covered by insurance.  I am going to have to see about this.



Eric

Eric Hanson wrote: It basically means a roof replacement is in the works.  The good news is that it might be covered by insurance.  I am going to have to see about this.
Eric

Following, and now adding some notes.  This discussion may have solved a similar issue for me regarding an outbuilding where wife started seeing some drips in one of the animal sheds.  Roof is corrugated metal over asphalt shingles and I could not fathom where the water was entering that could cause the drip.  But a 'spinner' vent is near the ridge-cap and now I suspect it to be the likely culprit.  No drip for many years, but as you noted, UV, hail, ice daming, freeze-thaw damage....all could be contributing to damage around that vent over time.  So that will be the first thing checked when the time comes....

Insurance and new roof:  A high wind storm many years ago tore off enough shingles for us to re-roof the house.  At the time, few metal roofs were going on to houses, but many local businesses were starting to use them and a local roofing firm began offering the interlocked version.  Insurance covered what it could and we paid the rest....and it was more than worth it.  I don't know for sure, but I have to think that, relative to asphalt, perhaps metal roofing has come down in price and more offerings available...??  Possibly worth looking into if interested.

Eric Hanson wrote:Hello everyone,

The last two days we have had a lot of wind and rain.  This morning my wife spotted a new water stain on the ceiling of a mudroom adjacent to the garage.  I was able to reach up and it was indeed damp. Obviously we are concerned about roof problems.

The mud room is near the center of the house along the shortest axis, but fairly central along the longest axis.  

I thought for a while and it occurred to me that perhaps the wind blew the rain up and under the ridge vent and that it how the water made its way in.

I would love to hear others thoughts.  And before anyone asks, the roof was replaced in 2009 with a 25 year shingle.



Thanks in advance,


Eric

Wind driven rain getting under the ridge vent is possible, but water can travel quite a distance before showing up inside. I’d check the ridge vent, flashing, and any roof penetrations first. Hopefully it’s just a small issue that’s easy to fix.

Jackson Bradley wrote:That vent boot was done correctly. The seal around the pipe could have leaked or wind driven rain could have blown up under the shingles over the boot flashing. I'd get a tube of asphalt crack sealer and run a bead at the edge of the shingles over the metal boot flashing and also cover the 2 nails visible on the boot. Unless the seal around the vent PVC failed, I am not entirely sure that is your culprit.

I can't quite see the PVC boot on the vent pipe, it's quite common that it is pushed down and forms a cup next to the pipe, not a problem until the plastic ages and a pinhole develops... I noticed that there's no wtor, collar on the pipe, you can get on from a hardware store and slip it over the pipe above the vent collar.