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The aging homesteader

 
pollinator
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John F Dean wrote:Has anyone else noticed that their doctors look like they just graduated from the 8th grade?   I mean, shouldn’t an MD at least look like a high school graduate?



Ha!.... Yes, I think they decided to get rid of an MD as a post-graduate endeavor and just offer it now as an option when you start your freshman year in high school. :-)  But more seriously, I get more concerned when they start writing prescriptions even before we've had any discussion on the ailment and it's possible causes.  It just instills more confidence if the visit is a doctor-patient exchange as opposed to my car mechanic's approach of "let's swap out this part and see if it solves the problem...".   If I had acquiesced to that tactic every time I saw the doctor I'd be the next bionic man sporting knock-off replacement organs and limbs!  

John,  I've been battling a similar impediment at least since Christmas and finally had an x-ray for a recurring right-side tendonitis.  Good news--not due to calcification or fracture; bad news--arthritic degeneration of bone around ankle joint, the latter completely anticipated given family history.  Reducing inflammation dietarily seems to have helped much along with both standard (ibuprofen) and more naturopathic (foot/ankle soak in Epsom salts/turmeric/ etc.) and an herbal oral anti-inflammation mix (too long to list right now).  It was quite painful and located only in the Achilles' tendons just before the point of attachment to the heel.  Have you had your knee X-rayed just to see if there is anything from that the analysis...prior to possibly going with MRI.....might pick up as a cause?  Have the symptoms worsened or lessened at this point?  Hoping some relief is coming your way either from the doc or through other means.
 
master steward
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Hi John,

I will set up an appointment with Doogie Howser once I am sure that I have screwed things up enough that it can’t be fixed.   I need some added time to help him forget our last encounter.  You see my wife has pretty sensitive skin and had a rash over most of her body.  Doogie was being followed by a pack of interns. Yes, the 8th grader was being followed by 6 th graders.  Anyway he wanted her to smear some concoction all over her body.  I am not sure why, but the interns went hysterical after my one word comment ….”Kinky!”  
 
master pollinator
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I tripped and went splat. My one knee has the same symptoms as John. Bummer. Comfrey salve and being careful.
 
Rusticator
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Ouch, Joylynn! Y'all. Seriously. Please take care of my friends - be careful, out there, y'hear?
 
John F Dean
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Least someone newer to this site misunderstand, this thread is about situations encountered by homesteaders with a few gray hairs.   I have a very high opinion of my physician …. Even if he does look young enough to be Doogie’s son.

And for those outside the USA ….or not of a certain age….Doogie Howser was a TV show in the very early 1990s about a very young boy who graduated from medical school at the age of 18(?).  
 
John Weiland
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Reference to Doogie immediately understood. LOL...

Yeah, spring seems to be a time of injury, possibly because of such a strong desire to get back outside and over-do on our efforts to enjoy and dig in to the season.  For us, an added 'danger' is mud by day, crevices by night:  Thawing creates thick mud by day and when it freezes again around dusk, the the ruts cause downright perilous walking.... twisted ankles, stubbed toe 'dancing', ... you get the idea.  The aging body just crying "enough!".  As with others, let's use the 'collective unconscious' to help each other stay safe and healthy! ;-)
 
pollinator
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I'm still perusing this thread; I hope you'll forgive me for responding before having read all the middle bits. I thought of a video that seems pertinent to this topic. It may not be appropriate for everybody - but maybe for somebody?

As a permie in the dreaming stage, I do a lot of thinking about what I can do now to prepare for someday having a homestead. I'm going to need a strong, agile body to do all the permie things. I looked around for simple ways to build physical strength, motor control, and flexibility that didn't need a lot of space or any equipment. After some research, I got intrigued by the idea of “functional fitness” and primal movement.  I landed on GMB Fitness's Elements program. I'm not paid to endorse them – just a satisfied user here. They emphasize doing whatever version of the movement fits your abilities – it's not about imitating them exactly. They have a lot of free resources available on their website, YouTube, and Facebook pages that focus on training the body in ways that translate to how we actually move in daily life. I saw noticeable improvement in my confidence going down stairs, my overall balance, and overhead strength just by putting together some of their free stuff and working on that one fall and winter. But enough of the gushing intro about how cool GMB is – here's the relevant video that I wanted to share:

https://youtu.be/ZVzzJ4xDgoE
Side note: Ryan goes through these progressions very quickly - but sometimes I'll spend weeks working on one variation of a movement before being comfortable enough to progress to the next variation.

Here's a link to the GMB article that goes along with the video.
And here's another YouTube video of a simple mobility routine.
They aren't the only folks out there with a practical, measured perspective on fitness, but they're the ones I have experience with.

My current recipe is a 30 minute walk 3x a week with a short mobility/stretching session after (tailored to what I need at the time), and a session of Elements 3 other days.
 
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Moved just over 3 years ago to 3.5 acres on a country ridge in the Smokies.  We love it here, and with both of us aging (my dear husband will be 69 next month, and I just turned 60 in January), I feel a great press to get things set up for easier existence going forward, as we'd love for this to be our final stop in these bodies.

We got fruit, nut, and berry trees first Spring in, though they still struggle in the clay here.  Garden each of the first three years has been a high learning curve experience.  I'm redoing the garden this year to adjust for the volumes of voles and moles and other area critters.  My perennials are still going in a large ground plot close to the fruit trees, though my annual veggies garden is going in higher raised beds, 2 ft high instead of previous 1 ft.  And, I want to work my way to a permaculture arrangement around each fruit tree.  That may be a many years project just to have them all included.

I still work, remote, and lots of sitting for several years now.  In similar boat in that aspect as another poster I saw here.  Lots of sore when have time to get to the ever available homestead work.  And my dear husband would rather be writing his books, yet does his part to chop wood, etc.  God bless him!  I look forward to continued learning on better aging on the homestead.  Worth its weight in gold for us has been recommendation I saw in a Mother Earth article re: senior homesteaders for using a plastic snow sled with pull cord for schlepping stuff around - dirt for gardening, wood from stack to porch for our wood burning stove, etc.  Just wore out the first one recently, and ordered in another.

In the meantime, my husband remains amused at the faces I make as I sit here writing this post, and tries not to trip on the cat, and I enjoy the fire and figure out how to get my garden set up work done next couple days off after weirdly tweaking my back yesterday morning as getting up out of my chair at the breakfast table.  Bodies!

Wishing you a good Eve 🙏
 
John F Dean
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Hi Phoebe,

Welcome to Permies!
 
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Phoebe Fraiser wrote:I still work, remote, and lots of sitting for several years now.

How hard would it be to set up a "standing desk" and be able to switch from standing to sitting each hour you're working? A friend's son passed college courses by having a treadmill set up in front of his computer. It was moving fairly slowly, but enough that he got his work done without hurting his health.

Many, many people are not only sitting too much, but their work stations are often not set up ergonomically correctly for their body shape/size. I had another friend who'd been in an accident, and insisted "it's just the accident" when I tried to tell her she needed to change her work station. It took several tries, but finally someone else suggested she get a registered professional to analyze her work station... uh-huh... the work station may not have *caused* the problem, but it was clearly *not* helping it get better. Some simple changes made a big difference. It didn't cure the problems from the injury, it just was one more change that helped.
 
gardener
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Hey Phoebe! Welcome!
We have a lot in common in terms of where we're headed (about to go buy our farm, which we will equip for our "older age") as well as where I'm at right now (also a long term sit-and-write type person).

I've got walking and standing desk options, which I alternate depending on workload, schedule, and type of work. I recommend it to everyone, and you can do it on a shoestring (my laptop is on a stand that is a lot like one of those trays for breakfast in bed, can get really, really tall, and my treadmill setup, well, I made it out of plywood to fit over the handrails. Won't win any design prizes, but works a charm).
Still, 90% of the time (unless I'm on a crazy project where I know I need to be glued to the desk), I work sitting and prefer to take "snack breaks" to move around- hang up laundry, chase the dog, answer the door, etc. Setting a timer is good for keeping my head clear anyway and sometimes when walking I just can't get the focus I need (especially if I'm editing rather than writing).

Look forward to seeing you around!
 
Phoebe Fraiser
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I do have a standing desk, and also a under desk cycle.  The cycle didn't fit well, and so it had to go.  Instead, I too set alarms for myself to remind me to move around regularly, and stretch; some kind of break for a few moments.  That seems to work the best when I'm not too focused on the project of the day. 😊

We do the best we can. At least the gardening is helpful in that regards.  With it pretty and in the mid-upper 70s, my dear husband, me and a couple of helpful neighbors spent yesterday and today getting six 8x4 garden boxes prepped with old Guinea poop and hay mixture over cut logs, and all of that covered with compost, as well as fruit tree pruning, and 7 self a watering 1x3 boxes soil mixture replaced, and planting out an early Master Gardener trial, some sugar snap peas, and planting in for later transplant some Roma's, chard, peppers, nasturtium, and marigolds.  Rain starts in the morning and it gets low 20s here again Monday night; maybe even a little snow.  We'll see.
 
John F Dean
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Maybe a month ago I read an article that the exercise goal of the Yuppie set was to achieve 10,000 steps a day.  According to the article, 5000 steps were regarded as normal. I got curious. I think I get enough exercise, but it is easy to deceive ourselves.  I bought a pedometer and have used it for a few weeks.   On my normal day I blow past that 10,000 step mark with ease.  Gardening, harvesting hay( I cheat and use a brush cutter), chasing pigs, etc. …..it is 10am, and I am nearly at 5000 steps. During severe weather those steps cut back to more like 7000.
 
Tereza Okava
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I live on a piece of urban property (house included) that is 7 meters by 22 or 25 (i forget). When I spend a day in the (7 by 9ish) garden planting or chipping, I can blow past my 8000-steps-a-day goal easily without even taking dog out for a walk. Doing/hanging laundry often gets me past 7000.... If I had a real farm, it would be preposterous.
 
pollinator
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Has anyone else noticed that their doctors look like they just graduated from the 8th grade?   I mean, shouldn’t an MD at least look like a high school graduate?



Yep!  Same here in France!  Not that I go to the doctor very often.  Mostly to ask for a blood test or some such.  Still, I find it very disconcerting as they seem to have no empathy for the older folks.  No clues either, rather condescending, and they don't inspire me with confidence.

She was quite put out that I was the only one of her patients of my age (73) who was not on permanent medication!  Doctors these days spend far too many years learning about pharmacopeia rather then diagnostic.

 
John F Dean
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Hi Olga,
In the USA testing is encouraged and diagnosis is avoided. I suspect it is less of a medical issue and more of a legal one.  
 
Olga Booker
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I guess you are right John.  Medical system here is quite different than the US.
 
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John,
I understand & empathize 100% with you. This concern hits me all the time. I am getting closer to the 60s side faster than I'd like. For instance it is now the middle of May & my brain is still in March and April! Yikes!

You are lucky in that you already have your slice of heaven, I have not. My issue is the same thing as yours. But with me, I haven't been able to get my own place so I can give this experiment a whirl. As a person with a destroyed back and bad feet (thank you US Army combat boots) I try to think of ways to do things without killing myself (not literally but figuratively of course.)

One thing I'd do is use a tractor or ATV to move items around your place. I've done this with my riding mower and it's been a game changer for me. Another thing is us dolly's whenever you need to move things around the inside. Very helpful. Another thing that could be a plus is use Pintrest. There are all sorts of hacks that people have come up with for assisted living.

As for me, I am thinking that I could/should become a member of a colony living group or start my own. I know that as time goes on, I will need my neighbors to make it.

Just a couple of ideas.  Not sure they help you or not.

Hoppy
 
John F Dean
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Hi G,

Great points.  Certainly think first.  Using machinery can be a game changer. …even relatively simple machines such as a come along can significantly help.  I have no idea as to how much property you may have, but I have 12 x 24 ft high tunnel that provides a significant amount of food for most of the year.  

I am very much the loner.  I don’t mind talking to people.  I can enjoy it … for maybe 30 minutes day totaling 90 minutes a week.  After that, socializing becomes hard work.  

Fortunately, at present, I am a pretty healthy 74 year old.   But I have been forced to notice that while I still get up at 6:00 am without an alarm, it takes more time and coffee for me to actually get moving.
 
John F Dean
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I just read part of the “Self-sufficient in a Zombie Apocalypse” thread.  I became aware I was doing many of the things suggested.  Then it hit me, staying on a homestead  as one ages is a similar challenge.   Within reason, some forethought regarding what can go wrong and how to prepare for it is a good idea.   I have enhanced the first aid kit (even more than I had). I make sure we have extra meds in the house. I make sure there is extra food around for humans and livestock….in general, I think in terms of what if I can’t get off the property for 30 days or so. Maybe the difference is I am not so much preparing for a disaster as I am making sure the problems I encounter don’t reach disaster levels.
 
John Weiland
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John and others,  Don't know if the following would be of interest, but I'm going to make a pitch as I have elsewhere for getting a used electric golf cart.  Even with 80s and 90s technology, a 36V cart has amazing torque and is *quiet*!.....no fumes, no gas, etc.  To date, I've stuck with the older lead-acid batteries as I wait to see how lithiums will develop price/performance wise.  With a solar panel replacing the canopy, it does not need charging from the house circuit given my low needs of the cart, yet it is there for transporting people and goods (and dogs!) to and fro. The additional advantage of solar panel constantly recharging in real-time is that the batteries can be pretty old....near their final days......and still they will hold enough charge to get to your nearby destination before charging back up again. These activities were done so much on foot in early days, but the body just needs its rest where it can get it now and this is a good compromise for us.  Maybe worth consideration..?....you will find good used carts for $2-3K and often lower on Craigslist or Facebook Marketplace.  Creaking along with you....best wishes!
Solar-Electric-Golf-Club.jpg
Solar Electric Golf Club
Solar Electric Golf Club
 
John F Dean
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You approach a good point.   I recently ran into stats saying the average age for someone to stop driving is 75. Obviously, me being 74, well this got my attention.   While I am in pretty good health, I have explored alternatives to making the 3.5 mile drive to my community of 3k.  Golf carts, electric ATV, and electric tricycles have all gotten my attention.  My present docs are 80 miles away, but I am an RN.  The docs are willing to RX meds based on an internet meet up….to a point. So, an alternative electric vehicle may be the best option to get grocery’s and see a local doc. I have dug in in one point ..I am not moving off my homestead. Fortunately, I see a myself in a good position for the next 10 years.
 
Carla Burke
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Transportation is a HUGE issue. My mom is going to be 80, this month, and though not at all a homesteader, she is in a very rural area, with a similar drive to yours, John, for doctors, but about 15 miles to groceries. Almost 2yrs ago, she became deathly ill, and landed in the hospital for nearly a month, then spent 3 months convalescing at my sister's, roughly an hour from home. All told, she was away from home for medical reasons, for nearly 4.5 months. It took her nearly another full year, before she could drive, at all, because her vision was horribly affected by the illness, and she now requires a prism lens in her glasses to correct the double vision. Many days, she struggles to walk to the end of her relatively short driveway, to get the mail, because of her balance issues. She's slowly becoming more accustomed to driving, but not far enough to get to the specialists, and still relies heavily on neighbors and friends. My sister works an average of 65 - 70hrs per week, and I'm a 9 hour drive away. We haven't been able to find a way to fix this, at all, much less in an affordable way.
 
John Weiland
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John F Dean wrote:......The docs are willing to RX meds based on an internet meet up….to a point. So, an alternative electric vehicle may be the best option to get grocery’s and see a local doc. I have dug in in one point ..I am not moving off my homestead. Fortunately, I see a myself in a good position for the next 10 years.



You and Carla both bring up good points and unfortunate scenarios.  My mother is in her 90s in semi-independent living.  Really did not want to leave her house, but the writing was on the wall and her loss of her driving privileges (cops stopped her going against one-way traffic before damage done) sealed the deal.  She's livid that she's in this position, but just as steamed that her 96 year old sister is still driving [but had her push lawn mower taken away by her children last year! :-0 ]  

John, just in case you hadn't followed this trend and accepting that Illinois laws both state and local may not allow it, but I've been amazed at how much 'street legal' golf cart traffic now is allowed even in local Fargo.....and the towns across northern Minnesota I think were on-board with this even earlier.  If your region does allow for the use of 'street legal' UTVs/golf carts, then indeed this may be a useful option for you, especially if you can pick out a good low-traffic route to doctors, groceries, hardware stores... and the occasional pit-stop at Dairy Queen (   ;-)  okay....my weakness).  Having been raised on the merits and near-worship of the internal combustion engine for most of my days, this foray into electric vehicles has been a refreshing surprise.  Additionally, I'm liking the fact that there are newer solar and battery technologies coming on board while still, to this day, being able to get the 'older school' battery and motor set-ups, either new or used, in these vehicles.  Good luck and I hope you and all of us continue to find solutions to our inevitable aging processes ahead...
 
Jay Angler
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With the rate of growth in the "seniors" age group, the more transportation will be an issue, and the more local governments will realize alternatives to "cars" is essential to keep seniors independent. The alternative is hugely expensive and undesirable from many directions. I've been told that in Canada, the average length of stay in what we call, "Long Term Care", is two years - it's really only the last stop before passing on.

Most people, given a choice, would prefer to die in their own homes. But there will be so many factors affecting this, I can't advise enough that people *plan* for alternatives, * support* alternatives in their locale, and *promote* alternatives with their local elected representatives. Things like street legal golf carts and backyard granny flats are two of those alternatives that allow supported independence.
 
John F Dean
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Hi John,

Yes, in the past year my community has allowed alternative motorized vehicles.  My normal route into town involves about 1/2 mile of state highway.  I examined a map and found a somewhat longer route in to town on gravel roads.  
 
Jay Angler
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John F Dean wrote:  My normal route into town involves about 1/2 mile of state highway.  

We have a "pretend highway" running from north of us, down to the "big city." Large stretches of it has open ditches for water run-off, and on the far side of the ditches, paved walking/bike paths. This is the sort of positive upgrades to encourage as we try to give people more transportation options. If we go for golf carts, ideally the paths would be a bit wider than they are. They get a *lot* of use - the old "build it and they will come" may not happen instantly, but if viable options are there, attitudes will change. Making people go miles out of their way to avoid a 1/2 mile problem, doesn't change that attitude. Many early bike lanes were "recreational". A program called "Bike to Work Week" changed a lot of attitudes - particularly with regional governments hearing a lot of 'the paths don't go where we need to go' type of feedback.
 
John Weiland
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Back in a Nov. 17, 2023 post in this thread, I pasted a photo of a used, recently-purchased Deere 1445 that would serve for snowblowing.  Winter arrived with nearly no snow for our region, so the machine sat that season out.  The unit additionally came with a 7 foot mower, but we had mowing already covered and don't do so much mowing anyway on our property.  With a little help from a welding friend, we collectively designed and assembled a *light duty* quick attach (skidsteer style) implement that would fit the machine and now double as a handy-hauler.  In particular, due to its maneuverability, it will be used to move hay bales, feed bags, and other items into tight spaces in the barn and other out buildings.  It's not yet completely finished....needs a bit of re-aligning some of the metal and then final welds put into place....but the hydraulics test out fine and it should be a great helpmate for the aging homsteaders using it! :-)
Loader-Hydraulics1.jpg
JD 1445 with attachment for snowblower
JD 1445 with QuickTach bracket
Loader-Hydraulics2.jpg
JD 1445 with loader attachment
JD 1445 with bucket on QuickTach
 
gardener
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Hello John, Everyone,

I have been consumed with work and grad school so I just found this thread and I am loving it!  I know that I am about to reference a conversation from a couple of months ago, but the quote made me laugh.

John F Dean wrote:Has anyone else noticed that their doctors look like they just graduated from the 8th grade?   I mean, shouldn’t an MD at least look like a high school graduate?



This very statement could have been applied to my wife when she first graduated medical school back in 2000.  In 2000, the year we were married, my wife looked extremely young--as in some people may have thought at first glance that she was too young to be married!  When we were dating (late 90s) and we were walking in the mall and holding hands, I would occasionally get some extremely serious, disapproving glares from people who drastically misjudged her age.  Mind you that when she graduated med school and entered residency she was 25.  When she became an attending physician she had not physically aged a bit, but she was 28.  And yes, she did get a LOT of comments from NUMEROUS patients who wondered if she was old enough to be a doctor in the first place (at first glance, they sometimes judged her to be between 13 and 16!).  And just for reference, assuming that one goes straight from high school to college to medical school on time and with no interruptions, 25 is a common age to finish med school and 28 is a common time to start residency.  Also for reference, I am three years older than she is.

Once while my wife was in med school doing a rotation in my area (a rotation is essentially an advanced form of shadowing another doctor), the hospital she worked at was a block from my school.  She would occasionally come over and have lunch with me in my classroom.  Once she almost got stopped for a hall pass!

The upside of this is that despite her being in her late 40s now, she looks like she is in her early 30s.  And having been a practicing physician for over 20 years now, she has become a well-regarded doctor in the area.

But your observation was right about the perceptions of her age when she first started both residency and private practice.  



Anyway, I just had to comment as this made me laugh as it reminded us of some humorous times.

Eric
 
John F Dean
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Hi Eric,

There are real advantages to looking young for one’s age.  I recently had someone mention to me that we were about the same age.   He was about 40. I kept my mouth shut. And yes, he looked older than me.
 
John F Dean
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I finally started using some good sense.  The knee is no longer painful.  Doogie suspects I walloped a nerve that took time to recover.  But I seem to have pulled a muscle in my back ( not related to the fall).  No, not a herniated disk ….not near my spine.   Anyway, I have stopped carrying the 50 pound bags of feed. I use a garden cart/Vermont Cart, or I scoop 1/3 of the bag into a 5 gallon bucket and carry that.
 
Eric Hanson
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John,

About 2 weeks after we were married, we were looking for furniture to furnish our brand-new spec home that I had found and been able to put down a down-payment (I wanted my new wife to live in a nice, comfortable place).  So there we were at the furniture store and I was sitting in a recliner when one of the furniture sales-reps (a young woman who I would judge to be in her very early 20s) walked up to us, introduced herself and asked us "what year were we?".  She obviously thought that we were college students at the local university and that we were shacking up!  And being the snarky young man that I was (am?) I just had to play along.  Since I was starting my fourth year of teaching I offered up that I was a senior and since my wife was about to enter her first year of residency she was a freshman.  Of course I left out the part about me being a teacher and her being a doctor so all she knew was that she was a freshman and I was a senior--apparently in college.  Now to be honest, this type of relationship would personally give me the shivers, especially if they were about to live together, but her response was "cool."  I then mentioned that I probably don't look like a teacher (all stodgy and such) and she said "No Way!", still unaware of the hints I was dropping.  When I finally told her outright that I was in fact a teacher she could not quite wrap her brain around the fact (I still looked pretty young, but I was 28).  I then asked her what doctors were like and she replied with some responses that I will not repeat here--we will just say that she was pretty opinionated.  I followed by saying that doctors didn't look like her (meaning my wife) to which the sales again replied "No Way!"  I then told her that indeed she (my wife) was a doctor, myself a teacher that we were just married and looking for a recliner for our new house.  The sales rep was positively stunned.  Despite her obnoxious behavior, we bought the recliner anyways (I think she was pretty humiliated by the time I let her know the truth) and told her that looks can be deceiving.  

After we left, we just shook our heads sort of laughed and chalked it up to another newlywed experience.  We still have the recliner.

Eric
 
Eric Hanson
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John Weiland,

I was reading your post about a solar electric golf cart and personally I love it!

Regarding the lithium batteries, there is little doubt that lithium batteries offer tremendous performance enhancements over lead-acid batteries, and if we simply compare batteries to batteries then lithium batteries might have price advantage when one considers the Peukert effect in lead-acid batteries (as charge goes down, so does voltage) with the net effect being that lead-acid batteries effectively have about 1/2 there amp-hour rating.  With this in mind, going lithium makes total sense.

That is until one considers all the extras that lithium batteries need.  Since lithium batteries are famous for their flat voltage discharge, they perform at top capacity across most of their discharge range.  This is good!  But it also means that voltage can’t be used as a state-of-charge indicator.  To get a reliable indicator of state of charge, one needs a separate, dedicated meter that reads every amp supplied to and pulled from the battery and requires a bit of extra wiring—it’s certainly nothing that can’t be done, but it adds another step to the complexity.

Also, lithium batteries don’t like operating below freezing—32F, and living where you do, this could be an issue.

Turns out that plain old 6v flooded lead acid batteries are a pretty cheap investment and are a fairly simple installation to a golf cart.  Not that this should stop you from lithium it that’s what you want, but I just thought I would add a bit of info I have learned from my own tinkering with lithium batteries.

Eric
 
John Weiland
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Eric Hanson wrote:......

Turns out that plain old 6v flooded lead acid batteries are a pretty cheap investment and are a fairly simple installation to a golf cart.  Not that this should stop you from lithium it that’s what you want, but I just thought I would add a bit of info I have learned from my own tinkering with lithium batteries.

Eric



Thanks for this information, Eric, as it helps expand my decision tree, not only on additional modifications to the golf cart, but also to potential plans to install solar/battery back-up for the home.  Although lithium batteries do have many pluses and are the technology of the moment for electrical storage, I'm intrigued by the emergence of sodium ion batteries.....which *may* (???) have an overall lower environmental footprint for production than lithium.  First generation of these newer batteries appears to come with lower power density, but for the needs....both as a home storage system and as a beat-around-the-property golf-cart power source....might still be able to fulfill the needs at hand.  Nevertheless, with the lithium technology available, this would not be a bad fit.  If I recall correctly, I think the charge controller in the golf cart was adaptable to both lead acid and lithium charging profiles, so I potentially would not need to change that out to accommodate the new batteries.  And actually, even though I thought I heard that LiFePO4 batteries don't like to charge below freezing but are fine with operation down to around 0F, I'm content with the cart being idle throughout our normal winters.  As the power technologies improve and more 4X4 equipment that is electric becomes available, I certainly may be open to moving in that direction if the price is right.  At any rate, I continue to follow the updates on these battery technologies and may take the plunge when the price/performance seems right.  In the meantime, I've been pretty satisfied with the used lead acids that can be had on used sales forums....because many are swapping out lead acids for lithium, there are good prices and decent availability for lightly used golf cart batteries to keep me running.  Which brings up a question that others with solar-powered homes and vehicles may be able to answer:  If my golf-cart operation is generally no more than 2-5 minutes at a pop (low discharge rate) and then the solar panel always refills the batteries to 100% state of charge between operations, does this lengthen the lifespan of the batteries as compared to a non-solar electric golf cart that is used at a golf course that possible discharges to 50 - 60% state of charge before recharging?  My impression from reading is that there would be no difference for lithium batteries, but the deeper discharge would shorten the lifespan of lead-acids.  Thanks for the insights, Eric!
 
Eric Hanson
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John Weiland,

At present, sodium ion batteries have about 1/2 the energy density of LiFePo4 batteries which might still make them very useful for your application.  In addition, sodium ion batteries have a slight Peukert effect, but the voltage discharge is nowhere near as steep as a lead acid battery.  There is a good potential upside to this:  given that voltage does drop with reduced charge it might be possible to measure state-of-charge through voltage alone!  If this is true it might greatly simplify the setup and building of the system.  I have to state though that I have no experience with sodium ion batteries and I have not even looked into them at all.

Regarding the charge controller—Lots of charge controllers these days are designed to charge both lead acid and lithium batteries so that part is no surprise—and it’s a good thing that you have it!  But the downside would be installing the battery monitor which reads the state-of-charge.  It’s not that this is a hard thing to do, it’s just one more bit of complexity to add to your system.

Regarding the constantly topping off your cells and never draining them deeply, my understanding is that this approach is much more gentle on the batteries than letting them discharge more fully.  This is definitely true with lithium based batteries as they actually swell with charge and their physical structure actually slightly changes—small, metallic crystals get made and these lead to reduced battery life cycles.  That is based on an 80% discharge and LiFePO4 batteries are typically rated to between 2000 and 10000 80% charge-discharge cycles.  After that point they no longer charge to their rated capacity but will still work fine for lower capacities.  LiFePO4 batteries can last a long, long time.  Discharging them to an even lesser degree will only improve their longevity.

I just ordered four 80 amp hour LiFePo4 prismatic battery cells in order to make a new, improved battery box.  I decided to make my own battery from cells mostly because I just want the challenge of doing it.  And if this is the way you want your golf cart to go then I enthusiastically say go for it!!  But I have noticed that with complexity comes cost.  If that doesn’t matter, then again I say definitely go for it!!!

Good luck!!

Eric
 
                      
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As a 67 year old woman and a body therapist /Physical Therapist A/ etc for over 40 years, unless some unforeseen accident or illness happens, there is no reason to give in to gravity, lose height, become disabled in any way. I am so grateful I have the skill set I do have. The most important method I have ever studied and became certified in is the Feldenkrais method which keeps aging at bay by virtue of brain plasticity. The habits we have cultivated for decades in order to cope with the demands placed on us --on all levels--lead to degeneration etc. because we are blind to them.  By becoming aware through gently movements in patterns the brain recognizes, the brain magically chooses a higher more organized habit for functioning. All the older practitioners who taught me are still going strong in their 70's through 90's and when they finally go, it is with a dignified well organized body.
It's such a painful reality for me that so many have no idea of how self healing our bodies are when we tap into its intelligence. We are trained to override the natural creation of a effortless movement by overdoing it because our sensory systems have become so bombarded and disengaged... It's like an electrical system. the sensory is the neutral which completes the circuit of the black "hot" action!! and the ground is the earth. By engaging once again, like a child or animal does before we take that away from them. (the child) we remember and reconnect.
As for using equipment, be cautious not to get dependent on it--entropy is faster than recovery
Never give up your cartwheels, your headstands etc.
Get on the floor often
It's also a gift that as I age , this method has taught me in this "push push" society how to move with the entire body , not losing , even enhancing the feeling of sensuality and flow. It's never to old to learn
My dream as I remodel my home on my own, I will sell and settle into a community where my knowledge will be valuable or be by myself in nature where I am most at home, the tuning fork for alignment on all levels
I hope folks will start seeing that when we take care of our bodies , we take care of the earth. We are, after all, earth bodies
 
John F Dean
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I read a quite unscientific article recently about how our behavior changes as we age.  I admit, some of the practices identified were direct hits.  Here are a few I remember:

1.   I don’t argue.   I find it pointless.

2.  I don’t stand in line.  If there are more than 2 people in front of me, I walk.  Sometimes two is too much.

3.  I never liked crowds before; I am repelled by them now.  For me, quite literally, two is company, and three is a crowd.

4.  While I amnot opposed to alcohol, and I enjoyed a glass of quality bourbon, I now have less than a glass a week.  And, as the song says I drink alone. I want to taste it and enjoy it without distractions.  
 
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Eric Hanson wrote:John Weiland,

I was reading your post about a solar electric golf cart and personally I love it!

Eric



I've been following this thread... um?... since I don't remember when.  Felt the overwhelming urge post... so here I am.

1.) Electric golf carts can be a reasonable transportation solution, but not all states allow such on public roadways without a driver's license and possibly vehicle registration +insurance. My state is one such.  My State also views "4 wheels" mandating a driver's license as a minimum. Your state my vary,  so probably best to check State & Local laws before you reach for your plastic.

I'm a senior, but physically still able to safely drive a licensed motor vehicle, but have chosen instead to go completely car free, and happily ditch all car related issues... such as,.. license, registration, insurance, $fuel$, repairs, tires, ect, ect, ect. I'm also about 12 miles from town. I am fortunate to have tools... but more specifically, I'm somewhat of a fabricator... with welding experience.

2.) E-bike. Yes, a viable option, but I much preferred a rig with more cargo capacity, and I'm not particularly fond mixing-it-up with traffic on 2 wheels on public asphalt. I also wasn't impressed with the current crop of ebikes/trikes I've examined.  So, I ventured out on my own and fabbed what I wanted... and still remain within Statutory requirements.  I have been riding street legal 3-wheelers for a little over 2 decades now, starting with an original 'granny trike' (NOT recommended)... but quickly blossomed into the roadworthy rig shown below: (The second image is a "fancy" trike my Father kept badgering me to build... completed on Farther's Day 2010 (or thereabouts) )
 




23mkayb.jpg
[Thumbnail for 23mkayb.jpg]
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Trike I built for my 96 YO Father (2010 or thereabouts)
Trike I built for my 96 YO Father (2010 or thereabouts)
 
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