Seed the Mind, Harvest Ideas.
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homesteadpaul
Seed the Mind, Harvest Ideas.
http://farmwhisperer.com
Len Ovens wrote:the bad part is that one of the outside walls is SE and has 2' above ground (painted black!) and works like a solar collector
I have never met a stranger, I have met some strange ones.
Daniel Morse wrote:Just run air over the bottles. They will transfer the heat exchange and condensation will form. No need for a radiator. A simple cheep cooler will do for a box. Lots in the resale shop.
Then be real smart. Get a solar powered freezer and freeze the bottles. Repeat.
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Greatest curse, greed
C. Letellier wrote:I am going to throw a monkey wrench in this idea for AC use. Air conditioners can be rated in tons. That is tons of ice melted in a typical 24 hour period to produce the cooling. A SMALL residential cooling unit will be rated at 3 tons. That means the heat transfer it produces is equivalent to melting 3 tons of ice over the course of a day. 2000 lbs / 62.4 lbs/ft^3 = 32 ft^3 per ton. That equals 907 liters of water per day per ton or 2700. Since you see 10% of the iceberg is the quote lets say that is 1000 liters per ton to allow for ice expansion.. Say you needed 3 tons of cooling so that is 3000 liters per day. That is 1500 2 liter pop bottles per day. Need AC for 30 days now you are looking 45,000 bottles. Then your ice house needs to keep them cool for that time period. Say your loss rate there over the season is 90%. If you did it all in 2 liter pop bottles that is 450,000 bottles.
Assistant Fruit Picker at Floodplain Fruits
John Wolfram wrote:
C. Letellier wrote:I am going to throw a monkey wrench in this idea for AC use. Air conditioners can be rated in tons. That is tons of ice melted in a typical 24 hour period to produce the cooling. A SMALL residential cooling unit will be rated at 3 tons. That means the heat transfer it produces is equivalent to melting 3 tons of ice over the course of a day. 2000 lbs / 62.4 lbs/ft^3 = 32 ft^3 per ton. That equals 907 liters of water per day per ton or 2700. Since you see 10% of the iceberg is the quote lets say that is 1000 liters per ton to allow for ice expansion.. Say you needed 3 tons of cooling so that is 3000 liters per day. That is 1500 2 liter pop bottles per day. Need AC for 30 days now you are looking 45,000 bottles. Then your ice house needs to keep them cool for that time period. Say your loss rate there over the season is 90%. If you did it all in 2 liter pop bottles that is 450,000 bottles.
While a lot of water would still be needed, I think you may be over estimating the amount of ice needed because air conditioners are rated by their output, but don't actually run 24/7. For example, a ton of cooling capacity is equal to 12,000 BTU per hour, so a 3 ton unit would be 36,000 BTU per hour. Melting a pound of ice absorbs 143 BTU, so that works out to the equivalent of melting 250 pounds an hour (56 Twoliter bottles an hour). If the formerly frozen water is brought up to 60F, you would get another 28 BTU per pound, which would bring the total number twoliter bottles down to about 48/Hr. Yesterday in Indiana it was hot (high over 90) and muggy. The total run time on my AC was about 4 hours to keep my house comfortably in the 70s, so that would have been ~1000 pounds of ice (roughly half what can fit in an IBC tote). Put another way, to get 100 days of equivalent cooling, I would need ~50 frozen IBC totes.
Of course, there will be losses due to melt. 100 years ago, ice houses lost 2050% of the ice between harvest and delivery. Since there would be no delivery, and our insulation has improved a bit, a reasonable guess would be a 10% loss due to melt. Adding in another 5 IBC totes for melt loss, the system still seems doable...probably several times more expensive (at least up front) than a conventional system, but doable so long as we a using something much larger than a twoliter bottle.
C. Letellier wrote:I may be over estimating a bit but probably not as much as you think. 3 ton / 12,000 BTU is rated to cool 500 to 550 square feet with decent insulation. Many homes need way more AC because of size or because of poorer insulation and then there is climate...So I will say 45,000 bottles is likely not off as much as you think.(either way I think we are of the right order of magnitude as to number of bottles to this point).
Assistant Fruit Picker at Floodplain Fruits
John Daley Bendigo, Australia
The Enemy of progress is the hope of a perfect plan
My opinions are barely worth the paper they are written on here, but hopefully they can spark some new ideas, or at least a different train of thought
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