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hemp, cannabis, marijuana, weed, grass ...

 
paul wheaton
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posted 13 years ago
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Yes, there is all sorts of political nuttiness around it. And, yes, it is a useful plant in many ways. Yes, I think it should be legal and we should be able to grow it for fiber, fuel and building soil.

At the same time, stinging nettles are superior to hemp in most ways. Yet you see people freaking out that they cannot grow hemp, but they don't plant any nettle. Kinda evidence that people have strong needs to be angry than they have needs to solve problems.

So here's the deal: we have the new forum "politics and justice" where folks can go and post links to all the resources they want. That forum does not allow discussion, but it does allow people to link to discussions. So really, all the hemp stuff should be there.

I think it is fair in our other forums to have a quick mention of the uses of hemp, but it really needs to have zero political charge. In fact, political charge or not, there is a good chance hemp posts will be removed just because 187 people will then feel the need to express their political position on it.

I really don't want these forums to be about politics. There are lots of other forums all over the internet for that. These forums are about how to build good things instead of being angry at industry that has pushed stupid laws on us so they can make more money.

It is true that you can never fully dodge politics, so there will always be bits and bobs here and there. But we can try.

you say "tin pot dictator" like it is a bad thing!

Staff note (r ransom) :

People can talk about hemp and other political issues in the cider press once they have eared sufficient apples - https://permies.com/c/15

Staff note (jordan barton) :

and pie

 
Xisca Nicolas
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Anger is unhealthy when it lasts too long!

Here hemp is legal to grow in small quantity, but I don't....
Nettles grow far less easily, but I try to water the ones I have!!!

people have strong needs to be angry than they have needs to solve problems.



You are right but let's be kind about being angry, it is the best cure for most human beings, the same as scratching a mosquito bite!
It is quite interesting to understand that when we go to new situations and find the same mess (for oneself), that this means we do it not to feel a former wound... A plaster! It works the same for the body and the emotional system. We can focus only on one thing, so we use this trick as a reaction, to feel something else less!

I like to give the clue to look for this, as it is helpful to understand the automatism of the reactions, and the conscious effort to do what is good for us.

This is called "gate control" in body healing, one thing only can go to the brain.
So, here is my trick for mosquito bites:
Scratch slightly around the bite, you will have the same effect without hurting you!

About political anger, well, it should work the same, and this is a kind of effort....

Xisca - pics! Dry subtropical Mediterranean - My project
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wayne stephen
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posted 13 years ago
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Why does hemp make people less contentious when they smoke it , but so argumentitive when they discuss it ?

For unlimited return on all your investments - Make your deposits at 'The Entangled Bank' !

 
Jeff Sayler
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I honestly expected better from you Paul. You seem like such a rebel, but you are so easily swayed by the powers that be on this particular topic. I can understand your desire to keep political bickering off of this forum, so why don't you just delete unnecessary political comments on this particular topic. The free exchange of information is completely legal in this country, no matter the topic. What's the big concern discussing marijuana? I personally live in a state that has legalized marijuana for medical purposes and i know several people who grow it legally for medical purposes. I personally would love to learn how i could incorporate medical marijuana into my permaculture system. This whole thing wreaks of hypocrisy.
 
John Polk
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posted 13 years ago
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As I see it, Paul is not "easily swayed by the powers that be", nor the powers that 'wannabe'.

It is a topic that has many people on both sides of the fence, many of whom can be very vocal, and opinionated at times.
Moderating threads that become overheated is time consuming, and requires one to make decisions...
..."Do I delete this post, but not that post?". It's faster/easier to delete the entire thread.
We can far better improve this site without having to spend time sorting out the mess that usually occurs in such threads.

For the overall good of the forums, it has been decided that our community is best served by not delving on the subject in great detail. It is a plant of many uses, so will come up from time to time, and that is certainly welcome. Becoming one of the "go-to" sites for its cultivation is not amongst our goals...we have bigger fish to fry.

For general info, just grow it like any other plant...it is a weed after all.
For specific info on the best cultivars, maximizing nutrients, etc, there are dozens (100's) of sites where it is the only subject.
Many have turned its cultivation into a fine art. If I wanted to "grow the best", I'd be searching those sites.
There is a wealth of information out there to turn a simple weed into an E-ticket ride, or a durable pair of jeans.

Seek, and yee shall receive.

 
Amedean Messan
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posted 13 years ago
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Paul Wheaton wrote:
At the same time, stinging nettles are superior to hemp in most ways.



This is incredibly misleading by comparing the two in such manor. For practicality purposes, hemp can vastly out produce stinging nettles in a wider range of soils. To my knowledge stinging nettles does not provide the wide spectrum of amino acids that can be harvested from hemp, nor at the same quantity.

Those who hammer their swords into plows will plow for those who don't!

 
Rion Mather
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posted 13 years ago
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John Polk wrote:
It is a topic that has many people on both sides of the fence, many of whom can be very vocal, and opinionated at times.



I am very glad that this is NOT one of those forums otherwise many would leave. Please don't change the vibe!
 
Jeff Sayler
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I don't think anybody here wants permies to become a "go-to site" for the cultivation of hemp and cannabis. But I do get the impression that many people, Paul included, want this site to be the comprehensive "go-to" site for all things permaculture. This is an international community and cultivation of hemp is legal in most of the world. Medical cannabis is legal in 18 states, and recreational cannabis is legal in 2 states. Taking these facts into consideration I think it would be completely reasonable to to create a forum specifically for discussing hemp and cannabis and how it can be incorporated into permaculture systems. It could be plainly stated that all political discussion is prohibited in this forum and only cultivation, as related to permaculture, may be discussed.
 
paul wheaton
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In places where it is now legal, the feds are still making people sad.

I can see some discussion of hemp here and there - but it seems any time it comes up we get a bunch of political discussion and we see discussion becoming hemp dominant.

As for being THE place for permaculture: I want it to be THE place for permaculture stuff I like. There are a lot of schools of thought under the permaculture umbrella that I'm less keen on publishing.

you say "tin pot dictator" like it is a bad thing!

 
paul wheaton
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Updating this thread: discussion of hemp is totally fine in the cider press.


you say "tin pot dictator" like it is a bad thing!

 
Brian Rodgers
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Hi, I'm new to Permies.
I agree with both sides on this fence. Cannabis does have a place in natural medicine as well as increasing the fun side of life. It's totally okay not to have those discussions here though. I don't know how to grow it and it's down at the bottom of the list of plants I do want to know how to grow.
FYI, I'm on page 5 of the Permaculture, a designers manual, I appreciate the ethics of permaculture far more than I care about cannabis. Thank you all, I'm learning so much here.
Brian    

"People get out your way, when you're on fire". Richard Prior

 
Chris Kott
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I am less all right with lumping medicinal strains together with those specifically bred for seed and fibre. There is still a lot of stigma that industrial hemp carries for no good reason.

I can't argue with how these controls evolved on this site, and I am glad for the cider press, where these topics can be discussed with the usual amount of caution. I also appreciate the lack of cannabis threads that would have no real bearing on permaculture as a whole.

-CK

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
-Robert A. Heinlein

 
Sarah Koster
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I'm pretty sure I discovered a giant patch of stinging nettles growing in a park near my house, in the floodplain of a river. Unfortunately I was blundering around in the woods and found myself surrounded by them as I discovered that they were stinging me.
My first point is, that they aren't hard to grow at all if they're in the right spot.
My second point is, don't wander around in a thick patch of them with your skin all exposed. I actually cried. I usually have a high pain tolerance and I totally cried.

You can see with only one eye open, but you'll probably run into things and stub your toe. The big picture matters.

 
Chris Kott
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There are a great many things that nettles can do. There are a great many things they can't.

There are a great many things that hemp can do. There are some things that might be better done, some specialised things, with other plants.

Sunflowers can accumulate a truly impressive amount of animal-edible biomass above ground in a growing season and produce a seed crop.

Black spruce can be cultivated in monoculture in a range of conditions otherwise only suitable for beavers, and pulped to make paper.

Where was my point? Ah, that's what I was going to ask you, Sarah.

Just because there are other, inferior options that don't offend delicate sensibilities doesn't mean we shouldn't examine and confront irrational stigma where it exists and extirpate it. This is especially true for such a versatile crop as hemp.

If you require information, this thread could provide some insight.

Also, why would I choose? Why would I choose nettles over hemp when I could have both? I can eat nettle greens, hemp hearts, and make clothing and paper out of whichever makes the best clothing or paper, or blend the two should that produce a superior product. Or maybe I would get better yields from flax where I am. Who's to say?

If we're going to discuss it, let's do so in the abovementioned thread and others like it in the Cider Press. But let us at least acknowledge the irrational bias created by the stigma that has relegated the discussion of a family of plant and all of its uses to the Cider Press.

There are a lot of good points in the conversation about the hemp plant versus any other relevant crop, and so many creative permacultural uses in guilds with other plants, to so many different effects. The conversation is ongoing in the Cider Press. I invite any interested parties to join in.

-CK

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
-Robert A. Heinlein

 
Chris Kott
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Oh, I hadn't come across this until told by my grandmother, but apparently nettle stings can have similar beneficial effects as bee stings on arthritis. My grandmother whacks her hands with it when she can, and though it hurts, I think it pales in comparison to her swollen joints. And she does see an increase in utility. Though the salve that we're using to try and lower her Percaset (sp?) intake is cannabis-based.

So there you have it. Nettles do have a potential medicinal application. +1 for nettles.

-CK

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
-Robert A. Heinlein

 
s. lowe
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Also what are we all to make of the fact that in the US the vast majority of the 'hemp' currently being grown is really just medical marijuana grown for CBD instead of THC? Not a lot of fiber or seed coming out of the US
 
paul wheaton
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discussion is allowed in the cider press - have fun.

And now I can talk about using nettle as a fiber without my conversation being flooded with political stuff.

you say "tin pot dictator" like it is a bad thing!

 
Chris Kott
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*old time drive-in intermission music starts up, and Chris starts dancing across the movie screen*

Let's all go to the Cider Press
Let's all go to the Cider Press
Let's all go to the Cider Press
and have ourselves a chat.

-CK

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
-Robert A. Heinlein

 
Joseph Lofthouse
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We deleted a few posts for writing about marijuana outside of the Cider Press Forum. The Tinkering Forum is for discussing how the site is moderated.

Landrace Gardening, author
Open Source Plant Breeding Forum, founder
Adaptation Agriculture: Video Course, Community, and Seed Share

 
Chris Kott
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I wanted a little clarification.

A thread having to do with a child's epilepsy was locked because of the mention of cannabis, specifically of CBD, which has no recreational or psychotropic effect whatsoever, and helps a great many people.

Is there a way to offer CBD as a potential avenue of treatment without having the article flagged and locked? Or is it edge-case enough that we just can't?

And are we allowed to Purple Moosage a member about it?

Sorry for any bother, in any case. The advice was meant to help the OP, not antagonise the mods (or at least, I didn't; you'd have to ask the one who brought it up first in the thread).

-CK

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
-Robert A. Heinlein

 
r ransom
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CBD still has a lot of emotional baggage associated with it.  It would be best to keep this in the cider press whenever possible.

I don't know about CBD in Purple Moosages.  At this time, I would say, if it doesn't cause a problem, then it's not a problem.  The moment it starts causing a problem, we would need to revisit the issue.

how permies works
homegrown linen | crazy chicken lady grows yarn!

 
Trace Oswald
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My lady's Grandmother is 88 years old, and can walk again without a cane after years of using one, thanks to CBD oil.  It's a shame not to be able to discuss it.

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r ransom
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you are welcome to discuss it in the cider press.
just not in the main forums.

how permies works
homegrown linen | crazy chicken lady grows yarn!

 
Chris Kott
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Can one link to an approved thread within the cider press, indicating why, for those with enough apples to read?

-CK

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
-Robert A. Heinlein

 
Burra Maluca
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Chris Kott wrote:...for those with enough apples to read?



Apples are needed to post, not to read.  Link away!

How permies.com works
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r ransom
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The whole point of this thread is to say that talking about "hemp, cannabis, marijuana, weed, grass ..." is confined to the cider press.

If you have earned the privilege to post in the cider press, you are welcome to talk about these topics there (provided your posts meet publishing standards, there's a very good reason why it's called the cider press).

This is not the place to discuss these topics.  This is the place to talk about how permies works.

how permies works
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