use of my stuff

I am totally cool with people using my stuff on their web site, as long as it is within my comfort zone.  And my comfort zone looks like this:

1)  There must be a link to where it came from.  In other words, a link to my stuff.  Specifically, a link to the page that has the original content.

2)  No more than a paragraph or two can be used on the other site.  No more than one pic can be used on the other site. 

3)  Everybody is welcome to embed my videos as much as they want cuz every video has a blurb at the end that says "come on out to permies.com!" - so all of my concerns are mitigated.

I hope that lots of people find my stuff good enough to post lots and lots. 

Once in a while I come across a site that has my stuff and does not have any link to me.  For those sites, I charge $5000 per day for use of my material. 

yeah, it seems fair to me, give credit where credit is due.  Plagiarism is criminal after all.

Anyway, you're already giving away so much in the form of teachings that we would otherwise have to pay for or do without, & maintaining a forum for finding helping sharing with one another.

I'd just like to say thanks for your contribution to the human community

Penelope

Here is something that has come up three times in the last week.

Some people take one of my articles and then mash it around a bit to be a bit printer friendly and then share it (with my permission) with like 20 people or so (maybe at a PDC or some other workshop).  Sometimes some of my stuff is used in a local newsletter.  Since they credit me and mention the website where it came from, I am happy to help spread the good word about this stuff.

The problem comes when they get the idea to make this print version available online.  The search engines find it and go "hey, there are two copies of the same thing!  Dammit!"  and then proceed to shower hate on both sites. 

I do follow through on finding not-okay copies of my stuff.  This makes a LOT of extra work for me, and it is really ugly work, so I loathe it. 

So:  making a print copy (with my permission) is something I encourage.  That helps my devious plots on world domination.  Putting that copy up on the internet, is not okay.  That hurts my devious plots on world domination (even if your intentions are good, and even if you are certain it is helping - it is not helping). 

So far, many awesome and lovely people have made it part of their curriculum to share stuff that I have written.  And then they tried to help me further by putting this up on the net - unaware of any downsides.  I appreciate the good vibe these people have for trying to help.  I just want to make this one part really clear.  Please don't be mad at me.

Hey, maybe when someone makes a paper copy of it, uses it in a curriculum, they could always include the link where a new reader could find the original.  And on the website, rather than posting it, they could post a link, with an endorsement.

People get to help spread the good word, make it available to their readers, students, listeners, without spoiling anyone's motives of world domionmationm, or what ever that long word was.

If I know how to put up the faces, I'd the silly one, silly mood I'm in, not silly issue.

My fingers are sore from plenty of cobbing, and I'm having trouble with the keys.

Thekla

And thank you Paul!!
Because the chicken article is a great read for permaculture students in a lot of ways. It not only is a very reasonable approach to why paddock systems are sustainable, but I also love that it takes the reader through a great journey in seeing if permaculture techniques actually help us fulfill the ethics. I think of it as a great example of exploring feedback, I like that it doesn't treat chicken tractors as a sacred cow (etc), and that it comes up with great alternatives. I share it with students because it's a great example of Permaculture THINKING.

Thanks again!
Kelda

Bingo! I'm also a crochet designer and have to think about these same issues when it comes to my patterns and other writing. I totally get this. Kudos for making it plain!

Google/YouTube are trying to use your stuff to see Land Rovers and fake turf. 

It's actually quite funny

If anybody has a blog and they want me as a "guest blogger", you can copy and paste from any of my blogs at http://www.makeitmissoula.com/blogs/paul-wheaton/ - text only, not the images. And you gotta use all of the links that are there.

Of course, you are welcome to use one image from my site if you want.

I suggested that the makeitmissoula folks set up a poll to see what topics folks might want.

If somebody here wants to do that, I'll direct folks to that poll.

I sent this list of possible topics:

---------


polyculture.

replacing irrigation with permaculture.

John Hait developed PAHS in missoula - I would like to start a shout
out to find the PAHS structures here.

husp?

Allan Savory's stuff about the real cause for global warming.

CCD?

The Wheaton Eco scale.

Rhizodeposition

The man who planted trees

What to plant to reduce the cost of chicken feed

I want more dandelions

Apples from seeds

What is a "permaculture design course"

sunchokes

deer control

Local vs. Organic

Permaculture vs. Organic

No till and seed balls

building a pond that holds water without a liner

fallacy

composting toilets and greywater

black locust

free cycles

heating water with compost

legionella, pneumonia, and your hot water tank

solar food dehydrators

jumping spiders keep brown recluse spiders away

Chickens are not vegetarians

old christmas trees make the best chicken bedding

fooling an air conditioner into cooling a room to be a walk in fridge

thousand buddhas in arlee

swingblade sawmill in missoula

washing dishes by hand vs. dishwasher

--------------------------

and I suppose whoever puts the poll up can add 20 or 30 more topics.

First person to shout out that they are going to do the poll gets it.

I hope this does not apply to posts in threads in forums at permies because I do it all the time, with proper credits and urls and usually with total impunity The cross fertilization of discussion in forums where such information is posted is worthwhile and generates positive feedback and interest.

Lawrence London wrote:
I hope this does not apply to posts in threads in forums at permies because I do it all the time, with proper credits and urls and usually with total impunity The cross fertilization of discussion in forums where such information is posted is worthwhile and generates positive feedback and interest.

It doesn't take much to say:
"Hey, I saw this on the use of my stuff thread at permies.com, I think it really works well with what we are talking about here..." Making the thread name a link to the thread would be best, but some forums don't allow that. (you may even have to use permies dot com for them to allow it In my opinion a site that doesn't allow pointing off site is not somewhere I want to be. ) It doesn't have to be my exact words, but it clearly says this is not my stuff but comes from over there And who said it. I would also add quote marks or snip lines around whatever I copied. This forum has a method of making a quote like your is above mine or:

"Lawrence London:
I hope this does not apply to posts in threads in forums at permies because I do it all the time, with proper credits and urls and usually with total impunity The cross fertilization of discussion in forums where such information is posted is worthwhile and generates positive feedback and interest."

or :

-----------------------------------------8<---------------------------------------
Lawrence London:
I hope this does not apply to posts in threads in forums at permies because I do it all the time, with proper credits and urls and usually with total impunity The cross fertilization of discussion in forums where such information is posted is worthwhile and generates positive feedback and interest.
-----------------------------------------8<---------------------------------------

Are some examples of how I would do it. I don't think there is a way to make a link that at only points at one message though. This is fair enough as many messages only make sense when related to what has been said before. I think the problem comes when writing a blog post or an article where the whole article/blog post is an almost direct copy. It is better to point at the original or get Paul to do a guest blog post as he has suggested. I don't know how Paul feels about having a window in a page on my site (sorry frame is a better word than window) that opens the article as a url from his site... it should work as all the stuff from his page including authorship advertising etc would show up in that frame.

Len Ovens wrote:

Lawrence London wrote:
I hope this does not apply to posts in threads in forums at permies because I do it all the time, with proper credits and urls and usually with total impunity The cross fertilization of discussion in forums where such information is posted is worthwhile and generates positive feedback and interest.

It doesn't take much to say:
"Hey, I saw this on the use of my stuff thread at permies.com, I think it really works well with what we are talking about here..." Making the thread name a link to the thread would be best, but some forums don't allow that. (you may even have to use permies dot com for them to allow it In my opinion a site that doesn't allow pointing off site is not somewhere I want to be. ) It doesn't have to be my exact words, but it clearly says this is not my stuff but comes from over there And who said it. I would also add quote marks or snip lines around whatever I copied. This forum has a method of making a quote like your is above mine or:

"Lawrence London:
I hope this does not apply to posts in threads in forums at permies because I do it all the time, with proper credits and urls and usually with total impunity The cross fertilization of discussion in forums where such information is posted is worthwhile and generates positive feedback and interest."

or :

-----------------------------------------8<---------------------------------------
Lawrence London:
I hope this does not apply to posts in threads in forums at permies because I do it all the time, with proper credits and urls and usually with total impunity The cross fertilization of discussion in forums where such information is posted is worthwhile and generates positive feedback and interest.
-----------------------------------------8<---------------------------------------

Are some examples of how I would do it. I don't think there is a way to make a link that at only points at one message though. This is fair enough as many messages only make sense when related to what has been said before. I think the problem comes when writing a blog post or an article where the whole article/blog post is an almost direct copy. It is better to point at the original or get Paul to do a guest blog post as he has suggested. I don't know how Paul feels about having a window in a page on my site (sorry frame is a better word than window) that opens the article as a url from his site... it should work as all the stuff from his page including authorship advertising etc would show up in that frame.

It goes without saying that that is the proper way to Xpost with the intent of enriching discussion at both ends, both sources. I do not think I have ever done it any other way except when its info readily available on the web and I do not want to include any reference to the original poster. To capture an accurate URL for the thread and an individual post within it do this:
Example: in the permaculture forum, "hugelkultur in hot ,arid climate" thread, post by Tyler Ludens [Post New]posted Friday, January 13, 2012 3:10:06 PM with several very interesting pictures of his Hugelculture mounds (I am sold on Hugelculture, long may it live). To capture an accurate URL for his specific post within the thread:
Look at the URL for the page with his post on it; this is it:
https://permies.com/t/12150/permaculture/hugelkultur-hot-arid-climate
I then looked at the source code for that page and found this reference to his post:
a href="/forums/posts/list/12150#110436
comparing the above two lines of code shows the occurrence of 110436 in each, one with #, one without
I then put together this: https://permies.com/t/12150 with the hashtag value: #110436 (the anchor to his post)
and came up with a valid URL that takes you straight to the beginning of his post:
https://permies.com/t/12150#110436
the above URL gets converted to https://permies.com/t/12150/permaculture/hugelkultur-hot-arid-climate#110436
in your URL dialog box after you have arrived at the destination URL

Not difficult or particularly time consuming other than weeding through the page source code.
The conventional page URL for the thread beginning, without hashtag, takes you to the start of the thread.
This will be useful and can probably be applied to other forum sites.

The goal is to enrich both source and destination forums and direct readers to each. The more completely this is done
will generate the most user participation.

LL

Lawrence London wrote:
Look at the URL for the page with his post on it; this is it:
https://permies.com/t/12150/permaculture/hugelkultur-hot-arid-climate
I then looked at the source code for that page and found this reference to his post:
a href="/forums/posts/list/12150#110436
comparing the above two lines of code shows the occurrence of 110436 in each, one with #, one without
I then put together this: https://permies.com/t/12150 with the hashtag value: #110436 (the anchor to his post)
and came up with a valid URL that takes you straight to the beginning of his post:
https://permies.com/t/12150#110436
the above URL gets converted to https://permies.com/t/12150/permaculture/hugelkultur-hot-arid-climate#110436
in your URL dialog box after you have arrived at the destination URL

Wow. Yes I guess I could do that.... but I am a bit lazy. So I thought I would look for an easier way. I thought maybe the quote button, but that just has the thread number. However, there is a tiny box/icon just before the posted on date/time text. Hovering over that or clicking on it if that is easier gets the correct url for the message. I found if I click on it I can copy from the url box of the browser and paste in this window...

https://permies.com/t/9878/tinkering-site/stuff#110892

Thank you for making me look. There have been a few times I would have liked to have referred to a message instead of the thread... now I know how. Maybe this would be easier for you too.

Len Ovens wrote:

Lawrence London wrote:
Look at the URL for the page with his post on it; this is it:
https://permies.com/t/12150/permaculture/hugelkultur-hot-arid-climate
I then looked at the source code for that page and found this reference to his post:
a href="/forums/posts/list/12150#110436
comparing the above two lines of code shows the occurrence of 110436 in each, one with #, one without
I then put together this: https://permies.com/t/12150 with the hashtag value: #110436 (the anchor to his post)
and came up with a valid URL that takes you straight to the beginning of his post:
https://permies.com/t/12150#110436
the above URL gets converted to https://permies.com/t/12150/permaculture/hugelkultur-hot-arid-climate#110436
in your URL dialog box after you have arrived at the destination URL

Wow. Yes I guess I could do that.... but I am a bit lazy. So I thought I would look for an easier way. I thought maybe the quote button, but that just has the thread number. However, there is a tiny box/icon just before the posted on date/time text. Hovering over that or clicking on it if that is easier gets the correct url for the message. I found if I click on it I can copy from the url box of the browser and paste in this window...

https://permies.com/t/9878/tinkering-site/stuff#110892

Thank you for making me look. There have been a few times I would have liked to have referred to a message instead of the thread... now I know how. Maybe this would be easier for you too.

Cool! That is a sign of good forum software. This time, thank you for making me look for that little, so obvious icon, which I should have seen instantly. Forget my method and just use what's been there all along.
Perfect gleaning of hashtags to posts for reference and Xposting. Thanks, Len. This is an all-important feature when Xposting or just referring to posts in new posts or replies at permies. If there are a few really good posts in a really lengthy thread you really want people to see and get to easily, this is the way to do it. Otherwise they might give up trying to find it. So, for web developers wanting to make the most of Google searches directing people to valued content in their sites, create html code with plenty of hashtags...maybe there's a better way to do this as well.

With Mailman mailing lists each post has it's own URL which you can find by going to the archives and selecting a post to read, displays it as a unique page.

LL

Lawrence London wrote:
With Mailman mailing lists each post has it's own URL which you can find by going to the archives and selecting a post to read, displays it as a unique page.

Ja, I have seen those kind as well. They are not as nice to read a thread though. Have to keep clicking on next... harder to get the flow of conversation than with just scrolling. So long as I can have a url that puts the message I am referring to in front of the viewer I am happy with things the way they are. I like having access to the whole page so I can quote from more than one message too. Anyway, getting kind of off topic for the thread.... In the end, I think Paul will tell us if he has a problem with cross posting messages/parts across forums.... I don't think so, I think it is more his articles. He doesn't want authorship of those to be in question by the search engines so they don't show. Even if his name is mentioned, that can happen. So rather than the information spreading which is the idea, it gets hidden as having uncertain authorship. Cross posting doesn't seem to have this problem... I think the search engines expect it.

Someone is asking about using one of my hugelkultur images on a t-shirt. I'm okay with that as long as it says "from richsoil.com" in a not too-small font.

What about podcasts? Can we re air them, leaving full credits?

Ron McCorkle wrote:What about podcasts? Can we re air them, leaving full credits?

This is a new one.

Can you give me an idea of what you have in mind? Will they be modified? All of them? You know that we sell some of them now, right?

Paul, our community is applying for a low bandwidth radio station. It will be in Roanoke, VA and it will be a non profit. We have told the agency in charge that we will air educational programming. I'm in the content group and I am a permaculturalist. I would like to have a few hours per week dedicated to permaculture topics and this would be about 1 of those hours per week. Other content will be mostly sustainability and social justice issues and information.

All I would want to do is air some of your podcasts, as they are currently posted on richsoil.com. We would air them in their entirety and change nothing. We would receive no income from your content. We would give full credit, both before and after each podcast, like you use at the end of your podcasts/videos, encouraging people to go to permies.com for more information on this and other material. It could be whatever you want, if anything special. After reading your posts regarding "tinkering with this site", and having listened to many of your podcasts on my iphone, I have a good understanding of your concerns and needs.

I ultimately want to further the current practices of permaculture, I am a permaculture teacher and my niche is urban permaculture. I appreciate the work you've done and want to share it.

Thanks for your consideration.

Ron,

I hereby give you permission to do this. Have fun. We'll see what comes of it.

yay! thanks. I'll keep you all posted on this forum. Airing may begin as soon as this fall.

bump

I've read through this, and I don't think I've seen it mentioned.

What about using your images in youtube videos? For instance, I spent hours making the images for this video because I didn't want to step on toes and use the already fantastic hugelkultur images.

I think that if it has credit to the article with the image, like super-imposed on the image, then it is fine. One image.

I think if somebody wants to use more than one image, then it is something that we should arrange. I don't need money or anything, but I think if my stuff is going to be used that much i want to know a little more about what it will be used for.

I like Paul's take on this. I often pester Brad Lancaster if there's something I want to use (that he hasn't posted as "free" stuff) for a particular purpose such as in a PDC presentation, as a resource on my website, for a community presentation, etc. I always let him and his assistant, Megan, know what I want to use it for and query as to how they want me to reference back to them should they approve the usage. To date, I've never been denied (not that I never will be - but so far, so good) and I've complied with the terms of our agreement(s). We stay on good terms and good work gets spread around. WIN WIN!

paul wheaton wrote: I don't need money or anything, but I think if my stuff is going to be used that much i want to know a little more about what it will be used for.

Cal has posted his current projects here if you want to see what he's up to.

I would like to submit an abridged version of "Organic Lawn Care for the Cheap & Lazy" to my neighbor association newsletter. The newsletter gets emailed to members only, and does not appear to be posted on the association's website (http://www.npna.org/). This case seems to fall in between print and online. May I put pretty much the whole article in the newsletter, or should I cut it back to one or two paragraphs? (Both with proper citations and url given of course)

Allison,

You may reprint the full article as long as you explicity say that it was written by Paul Wheaton and came from richsoil.com/lawn

A couple clarifications here please.

1) On the subject of copying content from one post to another; is it ok to copy pictures from one thread to another? Or should we do as mentioned above and just copy the link to the post?

2) Does Paul's stuff constitute the whole of everything on permies.com plus his other stuff, or just the stuff he has produced from richsoil.com/youtube/his blog etc. and not everything on permies.com?

one more: Can we use Paul's stuff in posts on permies.com, or is that the same as an article/blog?

Thanks for clearing up these points for me.

Simon Johnson wrote:
1) On the subject of copying content from one post to another; is it ok to copy pictures from one thread to another? Or should we do as mentioned above and just copy the link to the post?

Do that as much as you want. No need to cite source cuz the images are already here. Unless, of course, the image was not uploaded here, but was embedded here and citing the source was the decent thing to do.

2) Does Paul's stuff constitute the whole of everything on permies.com plus his other stuff, or just the stuff he has produced from richsoil.com/youtube/his blog etc. and not everything on permies.com?

If I am paying to host it, then it falls into this umbrella. So it includes my images, my words. And then if. say, burra posts 20 pictures to a thread, then I'm gonna go with that stuff falls under my copyright. So if somebody, somewhere uses more than one image and one paragraph then I am not okay with that.

On the other hand, if burra posts, say, 20 pictures here and she gives permission for use of those pics, then by all means, use them as much as you like within burra's comfort zone (as long as a web site isn't showing the pictures somewhere else and I am doing the image hosting).

I have to say that I heartily encourage budding photographers to post lower res images here and mention their photography site in the signature. Or, when they post an image here, they can mention that the high res version is available at some stock photo site for a fee. I think that this can lead to some good residual income streams.

one more: Can we use Paul's stuff in posts on permies.com, or is that the same as an article/blog?

My images on richsoil/permies can be reposted to permies a thousand times and that's just peachy.

Do you have any guidelines for showing paid content that we have purchased or is that all case by case, ask first basis?

Cat Knight wrote:Do you have any guidelines for showing paid content that we have purchased or is that all case by case, ask first basis?

Can you give me an example?