Minimalism vs. self-sufficiency

Apologies if this has been discussed to death already (I'm looking at you, "What do you optimize for?" thread) but...

I've discovered there is a necessary trade-off between two things I'm trying to increase in my life. I know I'm not the first to discover it, but it is my first time realizing it.

Self-sufficiency often--not always, but often--involves acquiring tools, kits, works, equipment, even extra space, especially to truly reap rewards in the form of quality and economies of scale. But I like it anyway because I like learning skills, I like saving money, and I like the satisfaction of consuming/using stuff I built/made/grew/etc. on my own. Plus some deeper principles about self-reliance blah blah blah.

But then this means accumulating more things, and even after it's paid for itself it's still stuff you have to store and maintain and move and keep track of. When you're dead, your heirs will have to do the same or else sort through it and figure out how to get rid of it. Plus some deeper principles about the shallowness of materialism and the transience of existence blah blah blah.

These two things aren't ALWAYS in conflict (for example, there are some things you can make yourself entirely out of stuff you've probably already got, and there are some things you buy or outsource that also require you to buy or outsource additional things) but often enough, more of one implies less of the other and vice versa.

I've only just noticed this conflict/dilemma, but maybe some of you are further down the path already and can share your thoughts.

I have always tried to live a minimalistic life, more so in the last few years.

Self-sufficiency is something entirely different to me.

When we had our homestead, we wanted to live a self-sufficient life.  We found that to do that takes a lot of work and/or money.

We did not have the money to live off the land.

We did not have the time to live off the land because we had to have jobs to pay the bills.

I know there are folks that the self-sufficient lifestyle has been past down through the generations.  I admire those folks.

We did not have that opportunity because our ancestors could not wait to get off the farm and live the city life.

I would have to seperate self sufficiency and minimalism unless we're talking hunter gatherer. There is just "stuff" required for a stationary  self sufficient life style. Food storage and prep tools, livestock containment, garden tools, harvest tools, construction tools for dwelling maintenance, livestock shelters. If I don't have the ability to do it myself I require that outside input, now am self sufficient? I have a screwdriver but when it's 28 degrees outside a screw gun is a welcome violation of my desire for minimalism. I have too much stuff.

Ned, I hear you! My husband has a tool fetish. Many of those tools are extremely useful, but they do take up a lot of space. We do seem to divide between "tools and raw material" vs "dust collectors" and I really try to fight against the latter. Now that we're older, I really encourage people to buy me food if they want to give me a "gift". Usually basic food - like a jar of local honey - rather than overly processed food.

I do understand the draw of minimalism, but a part of me worries also. I may not camp often now, but I wouldn't give up my tent because I live in earth-quake country. Do I store it because a destructive earthquake *might* happen in my lifetime and that tent will give me shelter? Or do I do what many people in this area do and figure if it won't and make no back-up plan at all?

I think that ultimately it is a personal decision and compromises usually need to be made. That said, if you buy tools and never build anything or repair anything, that's a different situation. I see locally, people who buy things just to keep up with the Joneses. Not for me, thanks!

Ned Harr wrote:Self-sufficiency often--not always, but often--involves acquiring tools, kits, works, equipment, even extra space, especially to truly reap rewards in the form of quality and economies of scale. But I like it anyway because I like learning skills, I like saving money, and I like the satisfaction of consuming/using stuff I built/made/grew/etc. on my own. Plus some deeper principles about self-reliance blah blah blah

It seems like this is a classic 80/20-rule situation where you can get 80% self sufficient with 20% of the tools/effort, but if you want to get to 100% self-sufficient you need 4x the amount of work/tools as to get to the first 80%. I believe the standard permie take on this is that of course it's a pipe dream to be 100% self-sufficient, that's why there is so much emphasis on community.

I see it this way - I need a lot of tools to build my minimalistic homestead. If I did not have these tools I would have to rent them at rates quickly surpassing the price of tools or hire someone at some outrageous rate to do the job, which would not be minimalistic.

Working toward self-sufficiency and resilience is the winning strategy, always. Minimalism is having just enough of the right tools to achieve it. And crucially, building the community connections to spread it.

My father (RIP) held the adage that if you showed up to a job without the right tools and the skills to use them, you weren't much help. Somebody else had to carry you.

We had different perspectives on many, many things. But on that fundamental adage we were in total agreement.

Solid tools that will last generations are not materialism -- they are the flat-out opposite They are durable goods, and the worthy, sturdy counterpoint to the current idiot fetish for disposable fashion/stuff.

How will the be disposed of? Heirs with brains will happily take ownership of the good stuff, and honour you for it. The rest of the tools/goods will go to auction, and maybe I'll be there with a pesky fly landing on my ear as the auctioneer raises the bid.

My husband and I will never be minimalists, I mean I try to keep on top of the stuff, make sure we're sending things on their way to others when we don't need them, having friends and hopefully soon joining an intentional community of some kind so we can borrow things, and lend things, rather than owning everything we ever could use.  But we still won't be minimalists, we camp, so there's stuff with that, we like pretty things, so there's a couple of kirio shelves full of it that aren't going away, we have lots of kitchen gadgets, because my husband cooks pretty much every night and loves his cooking gadgets, I run a vintage mall booth, so there's inventory which I move from home to the booth when things are bought there.  We're currently in a 550 sq. ft. apartment, and we're growing out of it, and I'm not ashamed of that.  We would love to have something anywhere between 600 and 800 sq. ft, I can't realistically see us growing out of that ever because there are only 2 of us and children will not be forthcoming, hence it will always be just us.  I'm my grandmother's grandkid, I love beautiful things and get attached to them.  But I also saw how her attachment to her stuff created issues for her later in life that didn't need to happen, its about balance and, even though we're growing out of our space here, I still feel I have a handle on it.  She had a 5000 sq. ft. house, to give you some scale.  And as regards my father, he's got a large house as well, though not that big, full of stuff, for him its not so much attachment that stops him from handling it, its feeling overwhelmed at where to start.  Some of it he needs to keep because he continues to work and refuses to retire, but the rest of it is lack of motivation.  I don't want to end up in a situation like either of my forebearers, so while I'll never be a minimalist I try to stay on top of things.