Accountability thread: the "public house" project

My husband and I live with our two daughters in Montreal. We're in a mid-density neighbourhood: close to the subway, but small enough that middle housing mixes with duplexes and single family houses.

We've been considering all kinds of communal living options, and given that

a) we don't want to move (we love city living, we love our neighbourhood, we love our daughters' school and we love our community)
b) we love the idea of communal living, but can totally see how it can end up in feuds
c) our house is too big for our needs

...we ended up with the idea of turning our living spaces in a "public house", in the spirit of British villages where the person who brewed the best beer in the place would open up their front-room to their neighbours.

We don't necessarily want to brew or serve alcohol (we're barely drinkers ourselves), but we'd like to use our space to host all kinds of small-scale semi-public informal community events. Things like "Fermentation Fridays", "House Concert Saturdays" and "Mending Sunday Teas" where our neighbours can get together to share fun, ideas, tools, skills and food.

I want to use this thread to document how things are going and how we're slowly building this idea. Our main living spaces are:

- Living room, divided in a front and back area (open, but it naturally divides into two small square spaces)
- A large dining room
- A large kitchen with a center island
- A hallway that is currently a total mess

Steps we've taken so far:

- Turn our "front" living room around so the TV is longer the center of attention. We've placed low seating in front of the TV so it's still available for movie and game nights, but the room is primarily designed for conversation.

- Buy/Rearrange our "back" living room around flexible furniture that can serve multiple purposes. We have folding chairs and a gateleg table so we can setup a craft table in the living room, and fold it down when we're done. We have ottomans that can double as extra seating.

The next biggest challenge is mess. It takes us hours to get the living spaces suitable for company, even with fairly loose standards. If I could just get my girls to stop just dropping everything they own on the floor the minute they no longer use it... But really, some deep decluttering is also needed so it's easier to keep things functional and flexible.

Good luck with this Kena! My mum hosts an informal craft group in her upstairs studio for a number of friends and other acquaintances. She provides the space and I think they have a bring and share type refreshment lunch. It sounds like a great group to me, but too far for me to join in of course! It's nice to have friends to share ideas and inspiration with - like a garden work party, but for indoor things.

When our daughter lived with us she was the messiest person.  I spent hours trying to turn this around.  It never worked.

Now that she has her own home she is the neatest person I know.

There have been some really good threads here on the forum about ways to declutter, etc.

Here is one:

https://permies.com/t/207770/Harmony-Housewives#1749027

I think maybe there are some PEP BB (Badge Bits) that might help the kids get started with some organization skills.  This could be a fun project!

I might be worth looking at these to see if something fits:

https://permies.com/f/415/pep-nest

One of the reasons I want to own a house, so we could do something like this, hosting house concerts, and other neighbourhood and community activities.  I'm glad you're actually looking at being able to do this!  I will keep an eye on this thread, its great to know someone will actually get to accomplish this goal, even though that someone isn't me.

Update:

The open coat/sports closet that was the bane of my existence has received a much needed declutter.

A car trunk full of donations left for the thrift store.

We spontaneously invited a neighbourhing family and their kids  for drinks and games.

I posted on my Facebook page that I had herbs to share, and a friend took us up on the offer. He came by bike and left with a armful of oregano and sage.

Yay!

I love your idea, and how you've described it. What you've written helps me clarify the ways I want to create community in my own home, as well.

I'm excited to see how your project progresses!

Kena Landry wrote:The next biggest challenge is mess. It takes us hours to get the living spaces suitable for company, even with fairly loose standards. If I could just get my girls to stop just dropping everything they own on the floor the minute they no longer use it... But really, some deep decluttering is also needed so it's easier to keep things functional and flexible.

Once you get your deep decluttering done, you could use my parents' method to keep kids' toys and stuff put away:  My father would tell us that anything we left lying around after use would be thrown away.  My mom was nicer and said anything we left lying around would be donated to the church rummage sale, LOL!  My sister and I were not perfect, but our smallish home and small bedrooms were always tidy.  We rarely needed reminders after some toys disappeared and were not returned or replaced.  (Mom was kind enough to wait til we left out toys that were not our favorites to show us they meant what they said, giving us "reminders" until then, so we were not too traumatized.)  Of course, you need to be firm, consistent, and able to enforce consequences with your kids, which most parents are not these days...  

Oh I love this idea! Very much what I would want to do if I had the space. I'm in Montréal too! Looking to host some workshops (crochet, mending, etc). Would you mind if I messaged you privately to see if this might be a possibility?

Cam Lee wrote:Oh I love this idea! Very much what I would want to do if I had the space. I'm in Montréal too! Looking to host some workshops (crochet, mending, etc). Would you mind if I messaged you privately to see if this might be a possibility?

Hello fellow Montrealer!

Not sure we're ready to commit to something fully public at this time -we're really thinking "micro-local, within walking distance" type of community - but I'd be happy to chat and share ideas.

Once you get your deep decluttering done, you could use my parents' method to keep kids' toys and stuff put away:  My father would tell us that anything we left lying around after use would be thrown away.  My mom was nicer and said anything we left lying around would be donated to the church rummage sale, LOL!  

My youngest is struggling with mental health issues, so we recently took nearly everything in her bedroom and stored it in storage boxes. She still has access to the boxes if she's looking for something specific, but there's almost nothing in there that she's missed. She was actually super grateful, and has been a little less overwhelmed. I frequently do the same with all the crafts stuff: just shove it all in a box and store that in the basement, leaving only basics. Never have my girls been more creative than when they only have access to a limited amount of supplies. So decluttering will certainly be beneficial for everyone.

But getting her to actually do chores is an uphill battle; we're going for "small victories" and attainable successes (like scrubbing a small area really well so you can see the results). And of course, when one kid isn't healthy enough to do anything, the other becomes an immovable object as well ("It's not faaaaaair...").

There's a season for everything, and we'll get through this one...

Kena Landry wrote:But getting her to actually do chores is an uphill battle; we're going for "small victories" and attainable successes (like scrubbing a small area really well so you can see the results). And of course, when one kid isn't healthy enough to do anything, the other becomes an immovable object as well ("It's not faaaaaair...").

LOL!  As I read that last part, it immediately sounded in my brain like my little sister's voice, ROFL!!

Neither of us was mentally or physically challenged (objectively speaking...) but being 3 years older than her, any time I earned a new privilege or some such, that familiar refrain rang loudly and persistently through the house unless or until she got the same boon handed to her on a silver platter just for existing.   Sadly, my parents often gave in just to shut her up, which only encouraged her to continue that behavior and affects her personality to this day.

Does your older child get to do certain desired, fun things that her sibling does not, due to not being healthy/strong/mature enough?  The "fairness" of taking away those good things or activities based on her sister not being able to do them might bring her around to seeing that maybe it's not so unfair to have additional chores along with the additional "rewards."

I'm sure it can't be easy dealing with siblings who are that different from each other... I truly wish you the best in navigating this phase of their lives!

Update: digging a trench through the yard so we can bring electricity there, which is all part of the overarching plan to build a community around our current house, rather than move and try to build sonething from scratch. 30 feet long, 18 inches deep.

Our plans to raise a work party mostly failed, despite promises of beer and fried chicken. But even just asking for help is a step in the right decision I guess?

It was quite an ordeal for my petite not-really-in-shape office worker self. Lots of heavy clay, roots and rubble.

We had a tiny inspector pay a visit to check everything was up to code

Still need a few hours of work, but I'm too exhausted and sore to keep going this morning.  

Looks like your little inspector is well satisfied

In a permaculture group I was in many years ago in another state, we would do work parties, I think it was monthly, through the decent weather months.  We'd go to different people's homes to do tasks specified ahead of time to the email list, and pitch-in a hearty meal when the project was large enough to take up most of a day.  The host provided beverages, plates, cups, flatware, and usually a main dish.   Perhaps if there was a hint at reciprocity you'd get more takers?  You could always ask people you may have thought (or hoped) would come why they didn't, and figure out how to plan the next one so you get more participants.  Could it be you are just too close to football season to get many takers?  (I'm not a spectator sports fan, but I recently heard something about football season starting.)  We did our work parties on Saturdays mainly.  Not everyone went to every event, but there was always enough of a turnout to get the job done, and folks who showed up more often were more likely to get their own project added to the lineup sooner.  

Another way to spark interest would be if learning was to be had, such as some form of construction or navigating your local permitting process, etc.  But really, for a small job like digging a 30' trench, I would think that free beer and fried chicken would be plenty of incentive for folks to pop by with a shovel, pick ax, trench tool or something to wrangle roots, and take a section!  It'd probably take longer to eat, drink and socialize afterward than it would to make that trench if you had even half a dozen workers show up.

Of course many people today pay others to do manual labor so they can play video games or watch TV, spend more time at work, or simply eat, drink and socialize without the extra effort.  Others may fear the financial liability if someone gets hurt working on their property.  Hopefully you'll eventually find you have at least some like minded neighbors who will appreciate your efforts at building community and choose to participate!

I'm glad you got it done, and sorry that not many people showed up for the work.  I mean I feel like fried chicken is a pretty good incentive.  One of the challenges with humans in general is lack of reliability.  This is why we always have our kinsmen help us move, rather than friends.  Well once a couple of my husband's friends helped us, but I think most of the time people don't want to commit to things, even fun things, when one has a party and invites 50 people generally only 4 will show  At least that is how people are here in the corner of the world I live in.

I'm due an update!

First, the sauna is up and running and we've had friends over a couple of times. It makes for nice deep conversations.

We also had a fairly large party/piano home concert a few weeks ago with neighbours and friends to announce our project.

We setup an online event management system so we'll easily be able to manage bookings for workshops and stuff.

And we had a first wreath-making workshop (with 6 attendees) where all of our ivy vines and cedar trimmings were put to good use. No pics because I was way too busy - I'll have to enlist a teen as a photographer next time.

I think I made a potential new friend who might help me get back into ceramics, and who has access to a kiln! Plus we got ourselves invitations to a community potluck in the new year.

Next event is a cooking thing, and we have zero people registered so far. We'll have to hussle a bit at this time of the year to get people to commit, but we're sticking to the plan !

Good for you Kena!  I think your ideas are wonderful and I'm glad you are off to a good start!

I wanted to do similar in my apartment so tried to have a gathering, and no one came.  All my friends had excuses.  So I think next time I'll post on the apartment bullatin board instead, and try again that way.  I'll try in early Jan. once most holiday stuff is finished.  I think once I ever get to have a house it will be better, because the address and finding it will be easier, leading to more people wanting to make the effort to come.  But for now it could be fun to build community in my complex since owning a house is so far out of reach for us for now.

This is absolutely wonderful! Wish you were my neighbor! At my place, I have a similar vision and have the physical infrastructure in place similar to what you mention. Central front living room etc. At one point I hosted a stitching group but it's sort of faded out.

I also have outdoor "porous property" on the corner of the yard. Benches, a little free library, 'zine library, etc.

Thanks for sharing, this is very inspiring. I look forward to reading the rest of your thread to see the updates.

Kena Landry wrote:
...we ended up with the idea of turning our living spaces in a "public house", in the spirit of British villages where the person who brewed the best beer in the place would open up their front-room to their neighbours.

We don't necessarily want to brew or serve alcohol (we're barely drinkers ourselves), but we'd like to use our space to host all kinds of small-scale semi-public informal community events.

Love this Riona! I have similarly issued invitations for gatherings that no one ended up attending. It seems to be a common thing. But, I hope you never stop your efforts. I plan to keep trying as well. Doing it within your apartment complex and posting on the bulletin board sounds like a very good idea. I look forward to hearing how that goes!

Those of us who are of this mind, I'd like to think we are setting up the infrastructure for future community, when people don't have so many distractions and need their neighbors more.

Riona Abhainn wrote:Good for you Kena!  I think your ideas are wonderful and I'm glad you are off to a good start!

I wanted to do similar in my apartment so tried to have a gathering, and no one came.  All my friends had excuses.  So I think next time I'll post on the apartment bullatin board instead, and try again that way.  I'll try in early Jan. once most holiday stuff is finished.  I think once I ever get to have a house it will be better, because the address and finding it will be easier, leading to more people wanting to make the effort to come.  But for now it could be fun to build community in my complex since owning a house is so far out of reach for us for now.

I got discouraged for now, but I'm so glad Keena's project is going well!

Riona Abhainn wrote:I got discouraged for now, but I'm so glad Keena's project is going well!

I know what you mean. I had the same problem with my gardening club - not really enough enthusiasm around me to sustain my own. Do we have a thread on that? I found a few related:
https://permies.com/t/262140/approach-format-learn-groups-fizzling
https://permies.com/t/197704/encourage-communication-relationships-block-party
https://permies.com/t/56497/Dear-volunteer-organizers-Facebook

and some book suggestions:
https://permies.com/wiki/156659/Inspirations-Wisdom-Building-Community-Kosha
https://permies.com/wiki/143350/Building-Community-Principles-Healthy-Future

I think there may be a equation that goes something like :

Success of a new venture = sum of (each person x person's enthusiam for event)

So as an individual alone, you need a hell of a lot of enthusiasm to keep going. If you have one other person that is quite keen, it becomes a lot easier and as each other person is added to the group it gets it's own momentum and develops a life of it's own. I don't know whether this will help, but maybe in the early days it isn't about the number of people that come along, but how much enthusiasm they have for the activity, does that make sense?