I need some positive anecdotes and suggestions for improving bone density

My elderly mother fell and broke her arm. When she went to the hospital the doctor showed me her xrays. The bones in her arms were see through. He said they were in extremely bad shape.
He told her to take citracal plus and nothing else and explained why. Calcium carbonate is totally indigestible, and that the extras with the calcium citrate where in the right ratio to make a difference.
He also prescribed her an injection that she refused because of the sodium content and the cost. The shot has since proven to decay people's jaw bone. Today her bone density is normal.

It is a proven fact that low calcium levels lead to cancer.

Thank you Thekla! Those are great suggestions, and we will be sure to start slow with any added weight. Mom has begun taking vitamin D as well as getting more time out in the sun (she loves to swim). And I am going to try to encourage her to add more weight bearing exercise (besides walking, which she does a lot). I am going to send her the YouTube video posted earlier in this thread to start with.

The Big Fat Surprise looks really interesting, I added it to my PaperBackSwap list and will pass the recommendation on to Mom. She does indeed lean toward the "prudent" diet; she is a registered nurse, so most of her familiarity is with mainstream nutritional advice, American Heart Association and American Diabetic Association advice, etc. but she is open to other ideas if the evidence is convincing. One of her problems (and mine) with nutritional advice is that we will read something that seems well-researched and has peer-reviewed studies to back it up, and then we will read something diametrically opposed that appears equally well-documented and researched, and we don't really know where to go from there. We are both trying to read more widely and dig more into the actual science, but that takes a lot of time & field-specific knowledge.

One blog that I've found that seems to do a really good job of breaking down and comparing various studies to evaluate the weight of the evidence is Stephan Guyenet's Whole Health Source. He's sort of Paleo-esque but he's not a hardliner and everything I've observed of him seems to indicate that he follows the evidence rather than any preformed dogma or ideology, and is willing to modify his opinions accordingly.

Hi Jennifer, Glad I could help.

Thekla

Very informative thread. Thank you.
Also, search teeth remineralizing, since teeth and bones are basically the same in terms of nutrients used. Find grass fed meat/organs/\bones, eggs and dairy, eat wild fish and cod liver oil, dark leafy greens. Now whole grains and seeds and nuts are a problem too in larger amounts, because they all contain phytic acid, which binds up minerals in digestive process (as they are seeds and need to grow), which renders them not very nutritious. They probably do not take minerals out of our teeth or bones, but make nutrients in our stomach not available to us, which makes them kind of empty calories more or less. Fermentation and soaking reduces phytic acid, but not very significantly.
Calcium tea as others said is also great: horsetail, oat tops, raspberry leaves, nettle, lobelia, comfrey leaf and root. I also read about black walnut hull tincture, which is great for remineralizing teeth. There are two types however : tincture made from green hull is slightly toxic and used for parasite problems, tincture made from already black seems to be less toxic, and could be used more often, with some breaks too, just in case. I read about it in Rachel Weaver's bokk Be Your Own Doctor.

Hi, Joy, what do you know about different species of horsetail? The DVD about tooth care says make sure to get a particular species of horsetail. It does not happen to be the one the herb shop downtown carries.

About walnut hull tincture I can add that an English neighbor years ago used to make pickled (unripe) "English" walnuts. They included the hull, and it was assuredly "green" as in unripe. They were delicious, and a traditional food where she was from, so the toxicity level is likely very low.

Also, doesn't the phytic acid pretty much disappear when the seeds are sprouted? Isn't that why we are seeing "sprouted" nut butters?

I'd appreciate any insight. Thanks

This may be a little late. Hopefully you've already discovered this permanent remedy which is to learn how to alkalize your body by changing your diet.
A great book on how we can detox to regain our health is called The Detox Miracle Source Book It is all about getting rid of acid wastes in our immune systems by alkalizing our bodies.On YouTube "Questions & Answers 67 Part 3". AT the 3 min 38 second mark,Dr Robert Morse, the author, talks about what causes Osteoporosis and what you can do to reverse it.

I'm of the mindset that you get out what you put in. So if I felt like my bones were not boney enough, then I would eat more bones... How does one go about eating bones? Many bones have soft spots in them that can be nibbled. Boiling bones for a few days in water containing a little bit of vinegar dissolves a lot of stuff out of the bones. It also makes them really soft so that they can be chewed. I crush the softened bones and add them to my potting soil and garden, so that I can also eat them via the plants.

My bone broth recipe is:

Put about 5 to 8 pounds of bones into a large crock pot. Cover with water. Add 1/2 cup vinegar, and a few diced vegetables: a garlic, an onion, a couple carrots, and a couple stalks of celery. Simmer for 1 to 3 days. Drink about 6 cups of broth per day. I typically drink the broth after adding about a tablespoon of savory spices, like poultry seasoning or curry powder, to each glass.

Bone broth really works well for me for easing into intermittent or long-term fasting.

Unfortunately your body won't build new tissue or bone in an environment that is too acidic. To make it more alkaline you need to stop eating the acid forming( ie bones) foods and begin eating the raw live alkaline fruit and vegetables with seeds. Some herbs could help too. You could have a parathyroid issue. To learn a lot more, go to YouTube and start listening to Dr. Robert Morse or get his book that I mentioned in the last post. He learned from the great healers like Professor Armold Ehret and Dr John Christopher and he worked with Dr. Bernard Jensen. Dr. Morse is a Naturopathic Doctor a biochemist and an herbalist with a proven track record of turning people around using Nature's whole herbs and mostly fruit. Very few do what he does and very few have anywhere close to the track record he does.

If you have a pressure cooker, it's a wonderful tool for making broth from bones. I have a Kuhn-Rikon pressure cooker, which was pricey, but I've used it often for over 15 years now. I've only had to replace the seals a couple of times. What I love is that I can fill it with bones and water, bring it up to pressure (the second red ring) and then just a bit of heat keeps it at pressure for hours, even days.

I generally keep the pot at pressure for 24-48 hours. When I open it up the broth is clear but the bones are soft enough to break with my fingertips. When I tried to simmer broth for an extended period of time in a normal pot, the broth was super cloudy and just didn't look appetizing.

One thing that I have made a point of in my life, is to not trust nutritional advice from people that are overweight. While Dr. Morse might have something to say about nutrition, it looks to me, based on his weight, that either he is not implementing the ideas properly in his personal life, or that the ideas may not actually be providing the results that he claims that they do. I also make a point of not trusting nutritional advice from people that are selling supplements.

Julia Winter wrote:If you have a pressure cooker, it's a wonderful tool for making broth from bones. I have a Kuhn-Rikon pressure cooker, which was pricey, but I've used it often for over 15 years now. I've only had to replace the seals a couple of times. What I love is that I can fill it with bones and water, bring it up to pressure (the second red ring) and then just a bit of heat keeps it at pressure for hours, even days.

I generally keep the pot at pressure for 24-48 hours. When I open it up the broth is clear but the bones are soft enough to break with my fingertips. When I tried to simmer broth for an extended period of time in a normal pot, the broth was super cloudy and just didn't look appetizing.

I also use a pressure cooker for bone broth, but mine is automated so I don't have to set a pressure. I throw in the bones, water to cover the bones, some kombucha vinegar or apple cider vinegar, salt and pepper, and then press "Cook Meat/Stew" for anywhere from 2 to 8 hours. I've noticed that even two hours in there will get out a lots of bone flavor and gelatin. I'm assuming that means it did the job, lol! I then season it more when I drink it (or add it to my rice or soups, etc).

This is the pressure cooker we use (though we have the older version): http://www.amazon.com/Instant-Pot-IP-DUO60-Programmable-Stainless/dp/B00FLYWNYQ. It does rice, yogurt (my old version doesn't do yogurt, so I can't verify how well it works for yogurt), slow cooking, as well as soups and veggies. It's great for those (like me) scared of exploding pressure cookers or don't want to try to figure out what PSI everything needs to be cooked at. It's also stainless steal inside, so no teflon or other weird materials (which is actually how I found it. I was looking for a stainless steel slow cooker, and this is the only one I could find...and we've never used it's slow cook function, lol!).

So I see this thread is quite old, but I want to resurrect it, as I haven't seen anyone mention silica levels in the body.

From what I have read, ensuring we get enough silica in the body is key to remineralisation. We apparently start to leach calcium over time if our silica levels are insufficient.

I also am leary about giving my time and money to "doctors" trying to sell me supplements or books. To me, if they haven't taken the hippocratic oath, they have no business advising people on health matters in any professional capacity.

I would make an exception to certain herbalists that aren't keen on selling me things, and who teach workshops to spread their knowledge rather than packaging it with a hefty pricetag. I suppose if they are selling preparations that they are also teaching people how to make, they will have effectively demonstrated an aversion to the profit motive.

-CK

A simple change one can make to help with bone density is reduce or remove acidic foods from their diet. When we excessively eat/drink acidic stuff, our body will combat this acidification with calcium, and it gets this calcium from the blood. When the calcium levels in our blood get low, our bodies will take calcium from our bones to replenish the calcium lost in the blood. The worst offenders are soda pops as they're extremely acidic and have zero nutritional value (the penny or rusty nail in a glass of coke is a great example to show this that I remember from grade school). Tomatoes and citrus are other acidic examples, but most of them are not as low a pH as sodas and they have vitamins and minerals and benefit the body.

Also start doing Aikido. Aikido is proven to increase the bone density with the little pressures on bone spurs at each technique. After a year of training, your bone density will significantly increase.

I have heard similar things about Tai Chi and many other martial forms that can be performed without intense physical stress. It seems that regular general activity that involves the whole body has benefits to bone remineralisation as well as musculature.

-CK

I get the concerns about weighted vests, but when used properly, they can really enhance your workouts. Adding extra weight during exercises like running or bodyweight training boosts strength, endurance, and even bone density over time. The key is starting light and gradually increasing the weight to avoid strain. Used correctly, a weighted vest can be a great tool for improving fitness without causing injury.

A few people touched on this, but it seems to be getting lost in the myriad of nutritional advice.  Assuming adequate vit D and calcium, weight lifting is the fastest way to increase bone density.  Walking and such is helpful for many things, but the studies I have read suggest it isn't helpful with bone density.  A very simple weight training program yields amazing results that can't really be achieved otherwise.  30 minutes a day, even every other day, makes an huge difference that can be easily seen in x-rays.  NIH and other sources have lots of studies on this if anyone cares to read them.  Here is one:  NIH study on bone density

Trace Oswald wrote:Assuming adequate vit D and calcium, weight lifting is the fastest way to increase bone density.

I'd add "adequate K2" as well, which was mentioned a few times up thread, but I think bears repeating.  K2 biases deposition of calcium into bones and teeth, and away from soft tissues - just what you'd want, in fact.

As far as I am aware, K2 is produced bacterially, in nature - usually Bacillus subtilis.  Natto (one of the most concentrated sources of K2) was traditionally inoculated by culturing the prepared soy beans in rice straw, which naturally has the bacteria on it.  Ruminants consume and ferment the bacteria.  There has been some interest of late in taking B. subtilis probiotic supplements, though I haven't (yet) seen anything on the efficacy of doing so.  I wonder if habitually chewing on a grass stem, cowboy style, wouldn't suffice, but that isn't very monetizable - any redneck can do that.  Heck, even I can do that!

I would conjecture that long fermentation cycles of natural/organic whole grain products (bread, anyway, and maybe beer, too) would contain some level of K2 without really trying, but this is just a guess, and I haven't found any analyses which confirm (or refute) this SWAG.  This is one of my several reasons for interest in whole meal sour dough bread, as something I had indirectly hinted at in Kate Downham's thread on her upcoming sourdough bread book.

Weight lifting, per se, may not be necessary, but resistance/impact loading (walking/stair climbing/jogging/box jumping - in some rough order of difficulty) is a good start, and walking might be all someone's mother can manage, at least at first - something being better than nothing.  "Accommodating resistance*" - i.e. variable resistance with elastic exercise bands - may be less intimidating, less dangerous to use alone, more affordable, and much easier to manage in tight quarters, for those who are new to resistance exercise.  No-name exercise bands are cheaply available from the usual suspects of online retailers.  In addition to the cheapo bands, my wife has used resistance bands from Clench Fitness, but they are most definitely not the low cost leader in this space.  My son, who often moves frequently due to his work as a traveler in the medical field, has also used the Clench bands in addition to pretty serious recreational mountain biking and body weight exercises.  I just try to do jobs around the house in the most manual way I can spare the time to do, but since 50 is now in the rear view mirror, perhaps I ought to give some thought to a more regimented resistance exercise plan...

* The serious power lifting gym rat types use lengths of heavy chain as "accommodating resistance" - the greater the range of motion, the more links are picked up off the floor.  If you've ever picked up or moved a length of logging or transport chain, you'll be acquainted with the phenomenon.  The Nautilus machines did a similar thing using shaped cams to vary the mechanical advantage against a fixed resistance.

Kevin Olson wrote:...
Weight lifting, per se, may not be necessary, but resistance/impact loading (walking/stair climbing/jogging/box jumping - in some rough order of difficulty) is a good start, and walking might be all someone's mother can manage, at least at first - something being better than nothing.  "Accommodating resistance*" - i.e. variable resistance with elastic exercise bands - may be less intimidating, less dangerous to use alone, more affordable, and much easier to manage in tight quarters, for those who are new to resistance exercise.  No-name exercise bands are cheaply available from the usual suspects of online retailers.  In addition to the cheapo bands, my wife has used resistance bands from Clench Fitness, but they are most definitely not the low cost leader in this space.  My son, who often moves frequently due to his work as a traveler in the medical field, has also used the Clench bands in addition to pretty serious recreational mountain biking and body weight exercises.  I just try to do jobs around the house in the most manual way I can spare the time to do, but since 50 is now in the rear view mirror, perhaps I ought to give some thought to a more regimented resistance exercise plan...

* The serious power lifting gym rat types use lengths of heavy chain as "accommodating resistance" - the greater the range of motion, the more links are picked up off the floor.  If you've ever picked up or moved a length of logging or transport chain, you'll be acquainted with the phenomenon.  The Nautilus machines did a similar thing using shaped cams to vary the mechanical advantage against a fixed resistance.

My personal belief (after many years of being one of those serious power lifting gym rat types) is that jogging and box jumping are both much more dangerous than weight lifting, especially for people with bone density issues.  Weight training can be as challenging or not as you want it to be.  I'm all for walking, especially on trails through woods or parks and the like.  It's great general exercise and everyone, not matter what fitness level should be doing it.  I don't feel it's a substitute for weight training, but a great addition.  Bands are awesome, but have some limitations.  The increments between bands can be too much for people with low strength levels, and some things like back and legs are much harder to train with bands than with weights.  They are absolutely better than doing no strength training.  I just find that it is much easier to progress in very small increments and train the entire body with weights.  As you said, for some people it isn't as practical.

I wouldn't recommend chains to anyone but serious lifters.  They add a dimension to weight lifting exercises that make them much harder to control.  Nautilus machines, Hammer machines and the like are fantastic and I would highly recommend those.