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willow feeder (wheelie bin pooper) at wheaton labs basecamp - the Willow Bank

 
Cassie Langstraat
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Someone let me know if I'm just blind, but I couldn't find a thread just for the pooper at base camp, I could only find this one but that's clearly for the one up at the labs. anyway, here are some really nice pictures art took of the pooper at base camp.





 
Pangas Ponkai
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I always wondered why 2 seaters.
However, a long time ago I was in Minnesota on a small lake that had a 4 seater, it was situated up a hill from the lake. I wondered until I saw a rope hanging down, which I pulled. The entire half of the wall was hjinged and lifted up, offering a superb view of the lake, I watched a deer scampering across the beach on the opposite side of the lake.
Back in the late 60's we bought a property that had an outhouse, but was not built on a hole, it had a drawer that you could pull out and I suppose dump over the fence into the next property.
Don't mean to sidetrack these photos of this nice pooper, but I'm getting older, reminiscing is beginning to be a favorite past-time.
 
Wyatt Barnes
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Very pretty but in my opinion two seats is one too many, unless it is a matter of selection? Four would be crazy. That thing looks big enough to be classed as a tiny home and the blackboard is for?
I do have what I would call an observation / constructive criticism. In my opinion an outhouse seat should be mounted at the very front of the bench if not slightly overhanging it. I came to this conclusion after having to redo a bench top after realizing that having the seat set back can be uncomfortable depending on leg build.
 
Delila Jahn-Thue
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This has to be the most BEA-U-TIFUL pooper I have every seen. Love it. You understand two holes if you have small children. Waiting for a slow pooper when you've really got to go would teach you that 2 holes are better than one. My hubby bought two old phone booths we are converting into poopers on our farm. We left the TELEPHONE signs on them. Very handy behind the greenhouse and near the kids' sand box. You people inspire me.
d
 
Weston Ginther
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Pangas Ponkai wrote:I always wondered why 2 seaters.


Wyatt Barnes wrote:Very pretty but in my opinion two seats is one too many, unless it is a matter of selection?


One of the holes had a urine diverter. Paul would like to keep the pee and the poop separate (he explains in detail in several podcasts). A lot of ladies pointed out to Paul that it was hard for many of them to go #2 without going #1 as well. Thus one hole was fitted with a diverter for the ladies and the other was left for any guys or gals who could control when/how they relieved themselves.

Last I heard they were trying to come up with a different style of diverter. Not sure if it was completed or not because last time I was there it was the middle of winter and the outdoor poopers were not in use.
 
Wyatt Barnes
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Thanks for the info Weston, I hadn't thought of different function, I was thinking of different view.
 
Jocelyn Campbell
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So glad you posted these pics, Cassie! Thanks for filling folks in on the urine diverter, Weston. I know the diverter has gone through a couple iterations so far, though I'm not sure if it's on the final, best version yet.

This was definitely a group effort.

Tim built the main structure. I can't recall who might have helped him since it was over a year and a half ago now: Tony and Emily perhaps, and/or other volunteers/gappers.
Rick and Jason found the colorful re-purposed porcelain and did a lot of initial improvements last year.
Justin helped with some of the early privacy screening last year, too.
Rebecca and Bella decorated with the origami flowers, the colorful orb, macrame bead work, chalkboard sayings, etc., last summer.
Brian built the sink cabinet, improved the door, as well as other fine tuning this spring.
Brian and/or Evan installed marbles in the wood for even more fun just a week or two ago.

The sun was already a little too high and bright in the sky when I took this pic earlier this morning to try to show how cool the marble effect is.




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base camp pooper marbles in the wood wall
 
paul wheaton
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In 2013 this pooper was a big step up from a porta-potty, but I think anyone would far prefer to use a proper bathroom.

In 2014, it was upgraded several times. Better seats were installed. I think the urine diverter was reconstructed about seven times. At one point the urine diverter failed and was repaired. I purchased several chalk boards to go inside.

Some people used too much sawdust. Some people kept opening the back wheelie bin access - thus making it so the system could not pull.

The solar system, battery fan and light were put in. This is the only thing where this pooper is inferior to pooper 1. The trombe wall system in pooper 1 is superior to the solar/fan system in pooper 2.

Then there were several rounds of what do women do during shark week. A document was created discussing the twelve ways that I could find that women deal with shark week and how each of those ways are dealt with in pooper 2. One of the things that I felt was important is that a sink needed to be in the pooper so a woman would not have to go outside with blood on her hand. Everything could be tidied up inside the pooper.

I wanted to not use pressurized water and I wanted to start exploring how to work with water in the cold. So in 2014 I bought a foot pump for use on boats. It was installed last week by Brian. There is a five gallon bucket under the sink and one pump on the foot pump provides a lot of water. There is a bottle of grapefruit seed extract under there too - so a few drops can be added with each new bucket of water.

On the backside of the sharkweek document is a document that describes how all of this works. We needed that because people were guessing and their guesses were often wrong.

Jesse Grimes invented the platforms for your feet. People can pick which level works best for them.

Last year and this year has been a LOT of focus on aesthetics. The goal is to make it so that people would prefer to poop in the pooper rather than in the house bathroom.

There are still a few things left to do, but I think they will be ready in time for the PDC.

 
Wyatt Barnes
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I am three weeks shy of a year without a flush toilet and I am starting to forget that it is different and can be scary/daunting to some people. On a funny note my 21 yr old really likes the sawdust toilet for her anxiety level.....she doesn't have to worry if the toilet will flush properly. I should ask her if she checks the sawdust availability before use.
 
Julia Winter
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I love the marbles letting sun in!

So, is the pink tanked side the girl side?
 
paul wheaton
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the side with the pink tank is the side with the urine diverter. So I suppose it is for mostly women and a few men.
 
Chris Waldon
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Shark week?
...

oh. ok then. That did take me a few seconds.
I like the design of the walls and use of lightweight cedar fence boards, very cheap by the square foot, even better if they're reclaimed from somebody's old fence. An outswing door is the way to go. Were galvanized hinges used? I expect there's enough airflow going through the pooper that condensation build up on the bottom of the metal roof hasn't been a problem.

Wyatt Barnes wrote:Very pretty but in my opinion two seats is one too many.


My question for anybody who knows: Does this pooper use a removable bin system? Or is it over a hole? If the former, I can see two seats as being advantageous for servicing. One bucket could be removed for 'processing' while the other is still available for use. If you're not sure which one is good to go, just remember to look before you lean.
By the way, if you're looking for a nickname for the pooper that's a little more, um, nonchalant, may I suggest calling it the Roman House. That way if two people are so bold as to use it as the same time, they could say it's a throwback to Roman times and communal toilets.

Perhaps leave a deck of cards in the Roman House as well. A game of gin with a friend can help pass the time. Not unlike the boys in All Quiet on the Western Front.
 
Chris Waldon
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Paul Wheaton wrote:Some people kept opening the back wheelie bin access - thus making it so the system could not pull.

This answered my question
 
Fred Tyler
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Pooper document. Sorry for a bit of glare.
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info sheet
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shark week info
 
Rebecca Norman
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The reason we have two currently used holes in each of our toilet rooms (as well as two closed-for-the-year holes) is so that the manure pile below is not quite such a tall skinny stalagmite in a big chamber, but distributes the manure and uses the space more efficiently. Especially in winter, a single stalagmite can form in winter reaching up close to the hole while the sides are not yet anywhere near full. More holes helps prevent that.

Oops, maybe don't put a deck of cards in the pooper if you have more than one person using it. Think of the line of people waiting outside!
 
paul wheaton
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I am now wondering if the spritz bottle mentioned in the document is in the pooper. It has to be emptied and taken out in the winter.
 
Chris Waldon
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Another design question:
For this type of setup, is it prudent to install some sort of vapor barrier on the bottom side of the boards that make the "box" the seats rest on? Or some sort of sealant?
Is the whole pooper bare wood, interior and exterior?

My thinking is that odors and moisture evaporating off the depository will affix to and penetrate the wood. How is this mitigated?
 
Samantha Lewis
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The two seats is so you and your three year old can poop together. Which is actually really fun.
 
Sharon Carson
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I lived on a commune in NM 40 years ago with a 2 seater that had no door. There were 40 folks and strangers coming and going from 2-80.   The view of the mountains in Taos was gorgeous .
 
Judith Browning
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Sharon Carson wrote:I lived on a commune in NM 40 years ago with a 2 seater that had no door. There were 40 folks and strangers coming and going from 2-80.   The view of the mountains in Taos was gorgeous .


...was it there in '71?  I have this vague recollection...hitching through taos, camping in the mountains...many hippies...outhouses...

and more recently our outhouses have always had a view but only one seat.......
 
Jocelyn Campbell
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Julianne and Mr. Dirt of dirtpatcheaven posted another cool video about their visit to wheaton labs! This time, all about the Willow Bank.

 
Job Leijh
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Hello! Great great article and video...i completely like this system...just was wondering one thing...

...what about the wheelie bin\barrel or reciepent...when full it will be closed with a lid wright?
will that than become anearobic? How will it change in the course of 2 years?

I was planning on adding a few worms (to bad that nitrogen en carbon will be released that way, but so be it) so i don´t have to carry heavy bins after 2 years when i am going to apply them to my willowbank! So but what about oxygen?? will my worms survive? or should i drill mini holes that even flies can´t enter?? Thanks, hope somebody can answer me




 
David Grizzle
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Hi,
This is my first post on Permies. After I read the posts about 2 holers, I felt compelled to share photos of this one, a 18 hole outhouse I encountered in rural Finland. It's at a school that's still in use but the outhouse hadn't been used for who knows how long.
In the photo, you can only see 4 seats, there are another two to the right just out of view. The red thing on the left is a urinal. Sharing the same large pit are another 12 holes on the other side of the building, which are divided into 3 rooms. In earlier times, all the goodies fell into the pit and then would be shoveled out when needed.  For me, it was a moving experience to stand in the pit, look up at all the holes, and think about how it must have been when they all 18 holes were in use.
When I was there in August, the pit was amazingly clean and was being used for storage. We set containers under 3 of the holes so it could be used as a composting toilet during a festival. Along the front edge of these three holes, we added a common urine diverter. The diverter was made from some scrap metal formed like a rain gutter.
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Jocelyn Campbell
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Welcome to the forums, Job and David!

Job, we experimented with adding black soldier fly larvae to one of our bins, and we did something to the lid to allow air in, as you're thinking of for the worms, but I wasn't involved so I can't recall what that was, sorry.

David, that 18 holer does sound inspiring! At wheaton labs we're a bit different in that we avoid pit toilets or shoveling humanure when ever possible. Pit toilets have the possibility of leaching excess nitrogen or pathogens into the ground water. As for shoveling poo, the more it is handled, the more the possibility of being exposed to or spreading pathogens. All of our poo goes into bins (plastic garbage cans) to make sure we don't have any risk of stuff leaching into the ground water. Then we let the bins sit at least two years or until the poo is as safe and as inert as possible before it's moved from the bin. Only then will we use the poo to fertilize a nitrogen hungry fiber crop/trees (not food) that will further keep any excesses from the ground water.

 
David Grizzle
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Hi Jocelyn,
When I said shoveling, I was referred to how I imagined they did it years ago when this building was still in regular use.  But that was only a guess based on how big and deep the pit was. I'd also guess that that particular outhouse had been sitting unused for at least 20 years or probably much longer.  When I visited that area i August, I saw other compost toilets that were in everyday use. I even had the privilege of seeing a person carrying and dumping poo buckets from another nearby outhouse onto a compost pile. I was only there for a 3 day festival so don't  know anything more than that about their system.
 
I agree. Here's the link: http://richsoil.com/cards
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