• Post Reply
  • Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic

Ice Stupa Artificial Glacier Project

 
Claudio Nirvana
Posts: 5
5
dog forest garden solar
  • Likes 16
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi all,
I've found this project very interesting and maybe could be helpful for someone:


Ice Stupa site project

Have nice day
Claudio
 
Burra Maluca
Mother Tree
Pie
Posts: 8809
Location: Portugal Zone 9 Mediterranean Climate
610
bee bike books duck forest garden greening the desert solar trees wofati
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
That is seriously impressive!
 
Claudio Nirvana
Posts: 5
5
dog forest garden solar
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Burra Maluca wrote:That is seriously impressive!


simply ingenious!
 
David Livingston
steward
Pie
Posts: 2608
Location: Anjou ,France
102
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Great stuff I hope they avoid the ongoing political mess up there on the roof of the world
 
Rebecca Norman
gardener
Pie
Posts: 1032
Location: Ladakh, Indian Himalayas at 10,500 feet, zone 5
89
food preservation greening the desert solar trees
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Yes, I work with the people doing this. You can ask if you've got questions about it.

Thanks for your concern, David. The Kashmir problem don't affect Ladakh much even though we are administratively in the same state.
 
Tracy Wandling
pollinator
Pie
Posts: 352
Location: Cortes Island, British Columbia. Zone: 8ish Lat: 50; Rainfall: 50" ish; sand and rocks; well water
30
bee books chicken forest garden fungi hugelkultur trees
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Amazing and wonderful! What an exciting idea. So many implications. Might help out the northern farmers in my province who are facing summer droughts after less than normal snow falls in winter. Extremely cool.
 
Marla Kacey
Posts: 105
Location: Wyoming Zone 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
WOW!!!

Now, if I only had a water source in the cold winter.
 
Jason Padvorac
Posts: 78
4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
This is marvelous. So basically what they've done is create a seasonal pond, but without the huge task of excavation and sealing that is normally required.

I'm in the Pacific Northwest, and I don't think we get enough cold for something like this. But now I'm wondering if there is a simple, non-pond way to store liquid water here for the dry summers...

(Hugelkulture counts as storing water, sort of, but takes a lot of work to setup at scale.)
 
Rebecca Norman
gardener
Pie
Posts: 1032
Location: Ladakh, Indian Himalayas at 10,500 feet, zone 5
89
food preservation greening the desert solar trees
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Jason Padvorac wrote:This is marvelous. So basically what they've done is create a seasonal pond, but without the huge task of excavation and sealing that is normally required.


Precisely! I like your phrasing. Many villages here in Ladakh depend on glacial streams that have minimal flow in winter and early spring including planting time, and then sometime in June or July the glacier suddenly releases a lot of water and there's plenty of water on a regular basis for the rest of the summer. This Ice Stupa tactic is to store up wasted winter water so that there's enough water in springtime to plant as much as you want or can.

The location they're doing it at is lower and warmer than would be expected to keep ice frozen as late as it does. The ice mass is so large, and vertically oriented as much as possible to avoid collecting too much sun as the season warms up in spring, so the ice sticks around until late in the spring or even early summer. Also, sprinkling makes more water freeze than it would if flowing in a different way. It still requires below-freezing temperatures to form ice, but doesn't require extreme cold.
 
Alan Loy
Posts: 55
Location: Melbourne Australia
3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Jason Padvorac wrote:This is marvelous. So basically what they've done is create a seasonal pond, but without the huge task of excavation and sealing that is normally required.

I'm in the Pacific Northwest, and I don't think we get enough cold for something like this. But now I'm wondering if there is a simple, non-pond way to store liquid water here for the dry summers...

(Hugelkulture counts as storing water, sort of, but takes a lot of work to setup at scale.)


I wonder if you could operate this at night (or whenever cold) in marginal climates.  I'm thinking about the snow making process used here in Oz. 
 
Jason Padvorac
Posts: 78
4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Rebecca Norman wrote:
The location they're doing it at is lower and warmer than would be expected to keep ice frozen as late as it does. The ice mass is so large, and vertically oriented as much as possible to avoid collecting too much sun as the season warms up in spring, so the ice sticks around until late in the spring or even early summer. Also, sprinkling makes more water freeze than it would if flowing in a different way. It still requires below-freezing temperatures to form ice, but doesn't require extreme cold.


Hrm, so maybe that could work here? Especially if one took advantage of nighttime colds like Alan suggested. This is intriguing!
 
Andrew Parker
pollinator
Posts: 514
Location: Salt Lake Valley, Utah, hardiness zone 6b/7a
4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
In locations that experience temperatures below freezing for at least part of the year (and perhaps only at night), artificial ice caves or large insulated blocks of permafrost might be built that could be used for cooling through the rest of the year.  The ice could also be used to condense humid nighttime air in arid climates.

In areas that get snow in winter, making large snowman sized snowballs in permanently shaded areas will reduce, significantly, moisture losses through sublimation, especially if you can cap it with a layer of ice.  If you can encourage drifting into shaded areas with strategically placed trees, shrubs and snow fencing, much of the work is done for you, you may still want to run a heavy roller over the drifts to compact them.
 
Rebecca Norman
gardener
Pie
Posts: 1032
Location: Ladakh, Indian Himalayas at 10,500 feet, zone 5
89
food preservation greening the desert solar trees
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Well, it's still below freezing where they are making these things, but even if the days are above freezing, they can freeze enough at night, more than melts in the day.
 
Andrew Parker
pollinator
Posts: 514
Location: Salt Lake Valley, Utah, hardiness zone 6b/7a
4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Shade makes a huge difference, if you can get it.  The sun will sublimate water vapor from snow and ice, even at sub-zero temperatures.  If they can position the ice stupas so they will be in shade, or mostly shade, until they want them to melt, there will be more water available when it is needed.
 
Laura Emil
Posts: 49
Location: northeastern USA
3
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Fascinating and encouraging.  Looked for followup word on how successful the 5000 trees planted in March of 2015 are doing.  In my field of work, planting in entirely different conditions, we loose "too many" if our livelihood depended upon them (but we can 'afford' to lose them.)  Found the continuing success I was looking for, on their facebook page*, snipped a screen shot to share here.  Looking forward to a verdant future for them!
https://www.facebook.com/icestupa/photos/a.687235904718014.1073741828.686004281507843/1019047998203468
IceStupaTrees.JPG
[Thumbnail for IceStupaTrees.JPG]
 
Miles Flansburg
steward
Posts: 3669
Location: Zones 2-4 Wyoming and 4-5 Colorado
134
bee books forest garden fungi greening the desert hugelkultur
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
More info here.

ice stupa

Rebecca, are they also building swales and teraces to spread water out over the countryside?

Using any of the greening the desert stuff?

What was the purpose of the plastic dome and tunnel?

Are there water rights issues like we have in the western US or can they take water anytime they need it?
 
Ralf Siepmann
Pie
Posts: 17
Location: Northern Germany
5
forest garden tiny house
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi all,

as I looked at the pictures in the project website another idea come to my mind:
As well as preventing too much melting by applying shade or insulative covers, you can also speed up the melting by covering parts of the Ice Stupa with fine dark dirt, in case more water is required.
 
Alan Loy
Posts: 55
Location: Melbourne Australia
3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
or you could just chip bits off
 
Miles Flansburg
steward
Posts: 3669
Location: Zones 2-4 Wyoming and 4-5 Colorado
134
bee books forest garden fungi greening the desert hugelkultur
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
This made me think of a place in Wyoming called the Killpecker sand dunes. When it snows the sand covers the snowdrifts which turn to ice. As the dunes move old "ice drifts" come back out into the sun after being buried for many years. I was thinking that they could bury some of the ice stupa's they are making and save it in the insulation of the "dune", until they needed the water, then uncover it and let it melt.

 
Rebecca Norman
gardener
Pie
Posts: 1032
Location: Ladakh, Indian Himalayas at 10,500 feet, zone 5
89
food preservation greening the desert solar trees
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Miles Flansburg wrote: I was thinking that they could bury some of the ice stupa's they are making and save it in the insulation of the "dune", until they needed the water, then uncover it and let it melt.

Good idea! Sawdust and wood shavings are almost the only free useful waste product available in the area, and are available by the truckload.
 
David Livingston
steward
Pie
Posts: 2608
Location: Anjou ,France
102
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
During WWII the Brits had a plan to build aircraft carriers only using ice and saw dust for use in the north adlantic / artic  convoys it can make a useful material
 
I agree. Here's the link: http://richsoil.com/email
  • Post Reply
  • Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic